Ok, so I have decided to venture into the world of all-grain. I am doing a Kate the Great RIS. Since its such a huge grain bill, I was planning on doing a parti gyle and making a secondary Black IPA.

So I understand the basics. Mash, mashout, sparge, etc.

Can anyone give me a step by step for a parti gyle.

Like:
Mash at ____ deg
Mashout
Sparge = 1st beer??

sparge = 2nd beer??

Not sure at what point to collect the wort for my secondary beer. They (online articles) mention second runnings. What are considered second runnings? The first sparge (with the mashout being first runnings) or the second sparge.

I know, nooooob.

Parti gyle is a kinda advanced technique and difficult to plan/predict without experience.  Need to know yields and tricks of your particular equipment.  Big grain bill can be an advanced technique too - high OG runnings, clogs, two brew kettles, etc. Could lead to a difficult day.  Heck, even high OG beers can be difficult to perfect - yeast quitting early, etc.

I might humbly suggest trying a more basic recipe for your first all-grain experience.  If you have a big failure lesson, do it with a cheaper batch.

I had to be flexible with parti-gyle batch strengths/sizes (1st/2nd).  Basically focused on my 1st beer OG and stopped running that when close enough.  So I just keep measuring my OG in the first kettle.  Small beer was whatever runnings are left, and I didn't worry so much about hitting a particular strength.  With my gear, I prefer a "fly sparge"  - recirculate to clear runnings, fully drain to kettle.  Then completely re-mix the mash and sparge for second runnings.  Not as efficient, but saves a little time.  So with parti-gyle, I did two distinct fly sparges to get my two batches.

Thank you for the reply.

I know that I am kind of getting ahead of myself. I go big out the gate (first race I ever ran in my life was full marathon). I may order a smaller all grain kit and get the first one under my belt prior to this one.

Thank you also for the last couple of sentences. I can follow that as to 1st / 2nd runnings and what it means for parti gyle. I did order some amber LME to boost the OG if the second runnings were thin.

I resemble this remark.  I got pretty "intere$ted" in brew equipment at one point.  Certainly would suggest an easier first grain batch.  Like try to duplicate your favorite non-grain recipe, but with grain instead.

Realize you asked about mash temps/schedules, etc. You're getting into deep study there - consult your recipe, mash-in temps, rests, etc.  For me, one of the real tricks of all grain is learning your equipment and how to hit and adjust your mash temps.  Come out too low, then you try to heat it up somehow, pretty soon you're burning or have a gloppy mess, etc.

Google for "brew mash calculation temperature" and you'll get a sense of the variables - like how much thermal mass your equip. sucks up on a cold day.  Take good measurements - grain weight, water volume, strike water temp, resulting mash temp after mix, etc.  That becomes experience for your next one.

I blame Ar15.com Homebrew section. Someone was talking about Kate the Great RIS on here. I looked it up and got all excited till I saw that you really cant make it as close if you dont do all grain.

Reasons this is a bad idea:

HUGE grain bill will sometimes give me problems lautering, stuck sparges, etc
A super high gravity beer will not usually get me the same efficiency as "normal" beers (anything btw 1.040 and 1.080)
You won't be able to drink it well for a couple months anyway (thereby not knowing if you made bad beer or not)
Partigyle is also not really well understood yet with homebrewing...could be problematic for your 10th all grain batch, let alone your 1st.
Yeast pitch, oxygenation and pitch are going to be BIG deals on a beer this size.

Do yourself a favor and make an easy pale ale, porter, stout, etc with simple yeast first.

I'm not going to say you shouldn't do this, but you are definitely jumping into the deepend head first. If it doesn't go well, don't get frustrated.

So there are a couple of things that are going to make this hard:

- First AG batch
- Large grain bill
- Unknown equipment
- Partigyle
- Maintaining two boils

I'm guessing since this is your first AG batch this is mostly new equipment. Do you have a recfractometer? This is critical when doing partigyles and extremely helpful even if you're not. It's possible to extract tannins from the mash when the gravity gets too low. I stop collecting sweet wort once the SG hits about 1012 to stay on the safe side, although the danger doesn't really hit until 1008. Do you have a gravity feed or pump based system? If you have a gravity feed you can just keep reading the SG but if you're using pumps it's very difficult to read the SG of the MLT without a grant. I don't have a grant at the moment but it's on my short list of equipment to add.

Are you sure your MLT is large enough to hold sufficient grain and water? I'm assuming you're going to do a 2:1 water to grist ratio. Figuring ~30 lbs of grain means you're going to need roughly 10 gallons of water (quick back of the envelope) and probably need a 20 gal MLT. I've done 21 lbs of grist with 10 gal water in a 15.5 gal MLT and it was very close.

I'm assuming you're making two 5 gallon batches. Do you have two 10 gallon kettles and a way to boil ~17 gallons across two burners simultaneously? Do you know your boil off rate? Since you're going to be boiling for 75-90 minutes you'll need to collect enough sweet wort to compensate for the boiloff. I know on my system one of my kettles will boil off about 11% per hour. Another kettle is slightly better, and other is worse.

Mashout refers to raising the temperature to 169F to halt enzymatic activity, not running liquid off. Do you have a pump? Vorlaufing that much by hand will take a LONG time. A pump will knock it down to probably 10-15 minutes.

Is your HLT insulated? If it isn't, by the time you've done the second sparge it will be too cold.

Also, it seems simple to run two boils at the same time. It's not. You WILL get your timers, hops, or steps confused. Especially if you're drinking on brew day.


Here's basically what you'll want to do. PLEASE DO NOT FOLLOW THESE STEPS ROTE. This is to give you an example of what you need to calculate.

1. Mash in at about 166 to target 154 assuming 72 degree grain (again these parameters will vary with your equipment and grainbill)
2. Rest for 60 minutes
3. Collect ~15 gallons sparge water and heat to whatever overshoot you need to guarantee sparge at 170
4. Mashout to 170
5. Vorlauf
6. Collect ~8.5 gal in kettle #1, sparging as necessary
7. Begin boil of kettle #1
8. Refill MLT with hot water (this is one technique, there are others) and stir.
9. Recirculate and/or vorlauf mash until the gravity is what you want it to be
10. Collect ~8.5 gal in kettle #2, sparging as necessary, being careful to not collect below 1008. Measure gravity in kettle and reinforce with LME/DME if you deem it necessary.
11. Begin boil of kettle #2

Start out simple OP...Go with a single-infusion Mash and a easy Ale or lager brew.

no shit



My 1st all grain worked out okay, but it took a lot of tweaking, especially on new equipment, knowing temp drops of the mash tun, sparge settings, temp changes.



no way in hell would i do a 10 gallon run with what you want



 

I've been doing all-grain for years and even I have brew days where things do go as planned. A stuck mash, not hitting your target temps (under/over extraction,) etc and it just plain sucks. AG isn't hard but it requires a good process, get your process down first OP before venturing into more complex stuff. When I started AG, I did a couple simple single-infusion brews and then jumped into a double-decoction mash on a German Alt because I thought I was ready; I was not. While that brew turned out ok (under extracted by quite a bit,) I learned a LOT about my equipment during that brew.

Ok, so by virtue of popular consensus, I will put this brew off for a bit.

I may go ahead and do the partial mash clone of the same beer just to get it going and then do the all grain version down the line and then compare the two.

Alright, so, I bucked convention and all the advice given here and went ahead with this. I know, I know.

Brew day went GREAT!! Using my homemade 18.75 gallon mash tun, I reached all my expected numbers (1.080 preboil gravity, 1.109 OG)

The parti gyle went well. I added some additional grain 40L, 120L, and Black Malt, reinfused and let it set for 35 minutes. (1.040 preboil) added some LME and ended up with 1.075 OG.

Tasted the wort of both and its delicious. Had WLP001 for the Kate the Great RIS and WLP007 for the Black IPA (dubbed Bastard Ivan IPA). Both yeasts had been stepped up from their test tube size for 2.5 weeks and took off within 3 hours.

They are still on blow-off they are going so strong.

I do appreciate the advice and I know it was risky, but I guess I am too stubborn for my own good.

so you did all that is your 1st brew?  what setup did you have?



 

Have been doing extract for over a year. 1st Allgrain brew. I made a mashtun out of a 18.75 gallon cooler, brass spigot and fittings, and stainless steel mesh hose (dishwasher hose with rubber hose inards removed). I had a 10 gallon tun but it was too small for the 24.7lbs of grain and appropriate amount of hot water. I have a 10 gallon pot with spigot, diptube, sight glass, and thermometer. I also have an 8 gallon pot, and a couple of 5 gallons. Heated large amounts of water to 168 (prescribed by brewsmith) and kept what I didnt use for mash in the 10 gallon tun till I needed it. Mashed for an hour at 154 (didnt lose a single degree). Batch sparged to get my first boil volume (7.65 gallons @ preboil of 1.080). Added 1/2 lb extra Crystal 40L, 1/4lb extra Crystal 120L, and 1lb of black malt. Mashed again for 40 minutes. drain, batch sparge to get second boil volume (7.3 gallons for 8 gallon pot @ preboil of 1.040). Boiled 1st brew (RIS) for 75min. Boiled 2nd brew (BIPA) for 60min. Added 6lbs of amber LME to the BIPA at 15min left to have an OG of 1.075. OG of 1.109 on the RIS. WLP001 California Ale yeast for the RIS. WLP007 English Ale yeast for the BIPA. Had a non-brewer buddy there for just an extra set of hands lifting water, grain, and keeping an eye on boils.

Fermentation is going strong. Brewed on Saturday. HEAVY fermentation started on both 3-4 hours later. Was finally able to take the blow-off tubes off and use regular airlocks Tuesday. Room smells amazing.

i didnt think you got those gravities just batch sparging on the 1st try



 

Virtually every partigyle brew I've done has gotten LME or DME in the second runnings

Oh yea, I wasnt expecting anywhere near the right OG off of just a sparge. I knew I would have to add something.

Hell, the additional grains were more for body and a little bit of fermentables as all of the articles and posts on HBT talked about how a parti gyle second runnings beer can feel a little washed out and thin if you dont add some additional grains.