Sooooo... any Engineers with their PhDs on here?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sooooo... any Engineers with their PhDs on here?

Posted: 1/16/2013 10:43:56 AM EDT

Recently finished up Masters. Thinking about going PhD. Like my masters, my job would pay for my PhD as well.

So here's the question, is it less of a pain in the ass?

Most of my graduate class friends were going PhD route and it looked like it was much more slack than pure masters. I mean that in the sense that each semester they would have one or maybe two coursework classes, the rest of the time it was "playing" on their various research hour projects. Masters sucked balls doing 3 or 4 fuck my ass hard coursework classes every semester, where as my buds were way less stressed.

So now that the majority of the coursework is out of the way; is the rest of the path less of a dry rodgering? From everything I've seen, it looks like it.

Just looking for confirmation one way or the other.

Posted: 1/16/2013 10:48:30 AM EDT

[#1]

Currently on the second year of my mechanical engineering PhD.

What you said has been true in my experience and that of my lab mates.

However, it would depend on how you schedule your time. I didn't have a project in place when I started my PhD, so I did all my coursework up front and it was much like working on my Masters.

Since I've finished my coursework, things have gotten a lot easier.

Posted: 1/16/2013 10:56:30 AM EDT

[#2]

Not an engineer or PhD, but if your employer is paying for it, why wouldn't you go for it?

Posted: 1/16/2013 11:41:15 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Not an engineer or PhD, but if your employer is paying for it, why wouldn't you go for it?

Time.

You have to weigh the benefit vs your loss of life. Working full time and taking a full time class load is hard. I work and attend an accelerated program that meets only one night a week. However, the amount study and homework time investment is that of a full time student. I literally work, study, and sleep... that's it. I guess if I were younger or planned to be back in the job market, it might be worth it. It's hard for me to keep up and I'm single with no other demands on my life. Once I'm done with this program... I've had enough.

Posted: 1/16/2013 11:42:14 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Not an engineer or PhD, but if your employer is paying for it, why wouldn't you go for it?

Doing my masters in electrical engineering was like being raped by a cactus monster while in a lemon juice hot tub. Typically you dont want to repeat something like that.

From what I can tell though, after all the masters course work has been finished it's just a stranger diddling your starfish. Close your eyes and pretend its Belladonna and you could probably get some enjoyment out of it. But if its ole cactus monster unzipping his pants again... fuck that noise.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:11:34 PM EDT

[#5]

Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:14:36 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Not an engineer or PhD, but if your employer is paying for it, why wouldn't you go for it?

Doing my masters in electrical engineering was like being raped by a cactus monster while in a lemon juice hot tub. Typically you dont want to repeat something like that.

From what I can tell though, after all the masters course work has been finished it's just a stranger diddling your starfish. Close your eyes and pretend its Belladonna and you could probably get some enjoyment out of it. But if its ole cactus monster unzipping his pants again... fuck that noise.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:18:52 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Nope. That's the good part about it. Still getting full pay, but only going to school, which they pay for.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:19:01 PM EDT

[#8]

I did my masters part-time, phd full-time. Phd was a lot more work - i wouldnt call it "playing on projects". Yes, its less course work, but other than being a pain in the ass, there's not a lot of pressure doing course work. Research isnt easy, at least in my experience. That said, i loved it, but i think a phd is better done full-time. I'm glad i did.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:22:30 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Nope. That's the good part about it. Still getting full pay, but only going to school, which they pay for.

I would love for my company to send me back to school on their dime.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:26:54 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Nope. That's the good part about it. Still getting full pay, but only going to school, which they pay for.

If that is the case then DO IT!!!!!

I work full time and am working on my PhD in ME part time. I work 50hr/weeks with class thrown in and research on the side. Needless to say I dont get much down time. Plus I have to travel for work, so I get to take shit flights and sometimes have 30+ hour days. The people who are in the program as full time students act like they are loaded down but they are just whiny academics. Full time students take 2 (maybe 3) regular classes and put in 20-30hr of research a week. I would love to go to school full time, but my company only pays if I still work full time.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:37:24 PM EDT

[#11]

I'm a current EE PhD student. Just curious, what's your field?

It's worth repeating that a PhD is not the same as an MS. The requirements will be more stringent, the work will probably be harder simply because it's going to have to be more novel and useful. I view the MS as projects and work that extends your knowledge of a specific emphasis in your degree. The PhD on the other hand gets you in to much deeper and dirtier work.

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:52:03 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Nope. That's the good part about it. Still getting full pay, but only going to school, which they pay for.

Uhh, yeah, you should definitely do it. Don't be a bitch.

The only thing it's costing me is time (that I could be making money), and I consider myself to be getting a very good deal. Yours is even better.

Posted: 1/16/2013 6:03:04 PM EDT

[#13]

I'm just about finished with my Ph.D. in Mining Engineering. Too bad it's probably not going to be until August and not before my 10 year reunion...lol. I'll say this, I did both my Masters and Ph.D. full time because I 1) I knew if i quit I wouldn't go back and 2) I'm getting paid (enough to eat) to be a research assistant. The previous posts are pretty much the same as I have discovered. Taking a couple classes at a time isn't bad, 3 sucks, and 4 sucks a lot. So i'll give you my one piece of advice that an old Ph.D. gave me, but you've probably figured this out for yourself with your masters:

"A thesis is never finished, only abandoned at an appropriate point."

Posted: 1/17/2013 10:02:38 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I'm just about finished with my Ph.D. in Mining Engineering. Too bad it's probably not going to be until August and not before my 10 year reunion...lol. I'll say this, I did both my Masters and Ph.D. full time because I 1) I knew if i quit I wouldn't go back and 2) I'm getting paid (enough to eat) to be a research assistant. The previous posts are pretty much the same as I have discovered. Taking a couple classes at a time isn't bad, 3 sucks, and 4 sucks a lot. So i'll give you my one piece of advice that an old Ph.D. but you've probably figured this out for yourself with your master:

"A thesis is never finished, only abandoned at an appropriate point."

I agree with all the above, particularly (1) and (2).

It's funny, one of my good friends is finishing up his PhD and our advisor keeps telling him he's done, go write it up.....but he keeps working because he's not satisfied....

Posted: 1/18/2013 8:19:43 PM EDT

[#15]

You need to evaluate WHY you want to get the doctorate- are you going back into industry afterwards, and want an extra resume kicker/ salary negotiating tool? Probably not worth it, unless you want to be doing really high-end stuff and your industry supports it. Do you want to change areas within the industry to somewhere that offers more high-end work? Evaluate the quality of your school. I hate to say it, but it really makes a difference with recruiters who are looking at grad students. Got MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, etc. credentials? You could shit your pants during the interview and still get the job. Get into the best damn school you can. Period.

I was at an ASME conference bullshitting with some other students one time, and a Ford recruiter comes up and starts looking at all of our nametags (which listed our school). As soon as he got to the Berkeley guy, his eyes lit up and he was that guy's friend for the rest of the night.

Find an area you REALLY are interested in, and be committed to learning stuff just to do it. Otherwise your experience is going to suck. Think about it as adding tool to your toolbox. The tools in this case are theoretical techniques, but the analogy still holds. You will be pretty versatile when you finish if you play your cards right.

Posted: 1/18/2013 8:22:45 PM EDT

[#16]

The other thing is that if your school/advisor/TA job/Fellowship is not paying for your schooling, you are doing it wrong. You absolutely do NOT need a company to pay that for you at the graduate level. Engineering is far more well-funded than most other graduate degree programs. Do what you want, and go where you want.

Posted: 1/21/2013 2:56:13 PM EDT

[#17]

If they're paying for it, go for it. It might be just as much work, but at the end of the day you're Outofstep Ph.D. That's Doctor to everyone else.

Got your PE already?

Posted: 1/23/2013 9:46:00 AM EDT

[#18]

It is far more of a PITA than a Masters.

PhD, PE, EE.

It only opens a very few research doors.

Far more like applied science then actual engineering.

Posted: 1/24/2013 4:41:04 AM EDT

[#19]

Do you have your PE?

I am not an engineer, but have a MS is a STEM degree and received a professional accreditation. Unless your employer is a research think tank, I would think MS & PE would take you far. FWIW, my father-in-law is a Power Engineer with a BS and PE and does very well for himself.

Posted: 1/25/2013 6:32:22 PM EDT

[#20]

For the couple that asked, no PE. Not needed for where I'm at currently or the two other places within the government that I would want to work. So never felt a need to get it.

I'll go back, but I'm going to be at the job abit. I need to knock out my SPRDE 3 lvl and a PME or two.

Posted: 1/27/2013 1:38:12 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
For the couple that asked, no PE. Not needed for where I'm at currently or the two other places within the government that I would want to work. So never felt a need to get it.

I'll go back, but I'm going to be at the job abit. I need to knock out my SPRDE 3 lvl and a PME or two.

Getting your PE is easy, easier when you're young. You should do it "just in case."

Posted: 1/28/2013 5:05:09 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
For the couple that asked, no PE. Not needed for where I'm at currently or the two other places within the government that I would want to work. So never felt a need to get it.

I'll go back, but I'm going to be at the job abit. I need to knock out my SPRDE 3 lvl and a PME or two.

Especially if you're not a civil engineer, the PE may put you out of contention for more jobs than even a PhD would. Most companies (non-civil) only have need of maybe a couple PE's. Putting that on a resume may hurt your chances for the majority of jobs that wouldn't require the extra certification.

Posted: 1/28/2013 5:46:24 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Recently finished up Masters. Thinking about going PhD. Like my masters, my job would pay for my PhD as well.

So here's the question, is it less of a pain in the ass?

Most of my graduate class friends were going PhD route and it looked like it was much more slack than pure masters. I mean that in the sense that each semester they would have one or maybe two coursework classes, the rest of the time it was "playing" on their various research hour projects. Masters sucked balls doing 3 or 4 fuck my ass hard coursework classes every semester, where as my buds were way less stressed.

So now that the majority of the coursework is out of the way; is the rest of the path less of a dry rodgering? From everything I've seen, it looks like it.

Just looking for confirmation one way or the other.

My PhD was more work than my MS. (Both are in Engineering Mechanics.)

The amount of course work for each was similar, but the Doctorate-level courses were more advanced.

The threshold of acceptability for my PhD dissertation was higher than that for my MS thesis. Therefore, the research was more intensive and took longer.

Heard the phrase ABD, as in "all but dissertation"? After my Doctorate-level coursework was done, and I was focused on my research, I suppose that could have looked like "more slack" to an outsider who expected to see continuing classwork.

Posted: 1/29/2013 9:49:39 AM EDT

[#24]

What do you want to do it for?

If you are going to continue to work in industry, you need to investigate what value it will have for you. Keep in mind that sometimes a PhD can be a detriment for some jobs because the employer may think you are overqualified or that something is "wrong" with you.

If you are looking to start an academic career, just getting a PhD is not enough. The academic job market is brutally competitive. To stand out, you must have a level of performance beyond good grades and novel research. You need to have publications, be good enough that your school will let you teach some classes for experience, activity in organizations in your field, and develop relationships with faculty at other schools for letters of reference, job leads, etc. The academic job search is also about the work equivalent of another Master's thesis. Then, if you take a tenure-track position, you have to worry about that for 5 or 6 years. (Off topic, I know, but academic tenure is not what it used to be. It basically means you are no longer on a year-to-year contract. Tenured faculty can be fired for cause or lose their jobs due to the economic situation at a school.)

Do you want to do it just because? Well, go for it.

Posted: 2/2/2013 8:25:25 AM EDT

[#25]

Im only an undergrad ME and I dont think im gonna go much farther than a Masters in Business Administration after my bachelors but dude, think how cool your name would sound with Dr. in front of it! If I had the smarts, willpower, and someone to pay for it, I would definitely go for it as long as family doesn't get neglected. If you're happy with where you are than why change?

Posted: 2/2/2013 9:54:01 AM EDT

[#26]

Do you have to pass qualifying exams to begin PhD study at your school? Because those are a LOT of fun, believe me.

Posted: 2/5/2013 12:08:34 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Do you have to pass qualifying exams to begin PhD study at your school? Because those are a LOT of fun, believe me.

QEs can also be pretty damn easy if you remember undergraduate engineering.

If you don't, it can be a real bitch.

Same could be said of the FE/PE.

Posted: 2/5/2013 5:53:25 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you have to pass qualifying exams to begin PhD study at your school? Because those are a LOT of fun, believe me.

QEs can also be pretty damn easy if you remember undergraduate engineering.

If you don't, it can be a real bitch.

Same could be said of the FE/PE.

Must depend on the school, then. Our department has something like a 20% first-time pass rate on the QE's, and we're barely a top-50 school. That number is higher for incoming students from overseas and lower for domestic students, typically.

Posted: 2/5/2013 6:07:16 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Do you have to pass qualifying exams to begin PhD study at your school? Because those are a LOT of fun, believe me.

Yep.

I dont think I've seen any program where there werent QEs required for the PhD program. But then again, I've only been looking at engineering programs.

Posted: 2/5/2013 7:02:50 PM EDT

[#30]

Qualifying exams can be pretty University- and program- specific. In my (Engineering) department at A&M, the quals are three days of written exams, followed by oral exams for any test you didn't solidly pass. In the Materials Science department, they give you a topic outside of your area of expertise and you write a paper summarizing the topic and present the work to a committee of experts. Neither set of exams is fun.

On the plus side, if you already have an MS, you probably only need about a year or two of classes to meet the class requirements. Taking classes and research at the same time is a lot of work. Once you finish classes, keep treating research like a 8-5 (plus more in emergencies) and you'll graduate. I actually like the research component a lot, but juggling research and classes is stressful. If your work is willing to pay you a real salary to finish a PhD, go for it, but expect to treat it like a real 8-5 job if you want to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

Good luck!

Posted: 2/6/2013 6:17:29 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you have to pass qualifying exams to begin PhD study at your school? Because those are a LOT of fun, believe me.

QEs can also be pretty damn easy if you remember undergraduate engineering.

If you don't, it can be a real bitch.

Same could be said of the FE/PE.

Must depend on the school, then. Our department has something like a 20% first-time pass rate on the QE's, and we're barely a top-50 school. That number is higher for incoming students from overseas and lower for domestic students, typically.

Good point, it will vary widely based on school. Here at Ohio State, for mechanical engineering, there are six (I think) test offered in various fields like thermodynamics, controls, etc. You have to pick three. Each is a three hour written exam. I think we have something like a 50-60% pass rate for people who did their undergrad here, lower for others. This is because in theory the test covers undergrad material, but with a grad level of difficulty. In practice, you wind up needing grad concepts like Lagrangian dynamics to pass.

Most people here study for about a month, I did my undergrad here so I only needed a week.

Posted: 2/23/2013 6:50:14 PM EDT

[#32]

What area of EE do you work in? Are you gunning for a Principal Engineer slot at your company? Are you married, got kids?

Those things matter.

I have a BS EET, going back for a BS EE and shooting strait through to MS EE. I work at a Dept of Energy lab and can't sneeze without hitting a Ph.D Engineer,

Posted: 2/23/2013 6:53:30 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Do you work while you're in school? I would assume not if you're taking 3-4 grad classes....that is already a pretty full schedule IME.

Nope. That's the good part about it. Still getting full pay, but only going to school, which they pay for.

Damn that is a sweet deal. I had to take a pay cut and they only paid for part of my school.

Posted: 2/23/2013 7:08:52 PM EDT

[#34]

Every PhD "engineer"I have ever worked with has had no concept, they are not engineers. In fact, they are usually worse than scientists (astronomers and such). Ugh.

Do you like spending your life in school, or do you want to practice engineering?

Posted: 2/24/2013 3:28:43 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Every PhD "engineer"I have ever worked with has had no concept, they are not engineers. In fact, they are usually worse than scientists (astronomers and such). Ugh.

Do you like spending your life in school, or do you want to practice engineering?

Posted: 2/24/2013 3:41:19 PM EDT

[#36]

While I would do it based on what you are saying (they'll pay, pay you, and you go to school), I would start thinking ahead to where you want to go in your career.

You will NOT be more employable with a PhD than with a Masters. Many people think you will, but with that Doctorate, they're going to make assumptions, and you'll get round-filed for many positions. If the rest of your resume doesn't match putting you in a very senior engineering position, then it will hurt you. And there are just fewer of those positions than there are positions 'accessible' with a Masters. Noone worries about putting a guy with a Masters in a lower level position. They worry about that with a PhD.

That said, if you have the experience, feel very good with your current employer (and it sounds like you do) and feel that it will help you in your career, go for it. Also go with it if you want to potentially teach someday. But I wouldn't get it if you are thinking about jumping companies in the future. That's going to be much harder.

Posted: 2/25/2013 10:16:05 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Every PhD "engineer"I have ever worked with has had no concept, they are not engineers. In fact, they are usually worse than scientists (astronomers and such). Ugh.

Do you like spending your life in school, or do you want to practice engineering?

It depends on what you plan on doing in engineering and what type of engineering.

PhD EE is very different than PhD CE.

Posted: 2/27/2013 7:10:59 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Every PhD "engineer"I have ever worked with has had no concept, they are not engineers. In fact, they are usually worse than scientists (astronomers and such). Ugh.

Do you like spending your life in school, or do you want to practice engineering?

It depends on what you plan on doing in engineering and what type of engineering.

PhD EE is very different than PhD CE.

This is very true. It depends a lot on the individual, as well. I've met more graduating ME seniors than I can count who didn't know what a tapped hole is. Conversely, I know a number of of PhD students who cut their teeth on an SAE formula or baja team.

Posted: 3/1/2013 10:03:21 PM EDT

[#39]

Not phd, but I seriously considered it. (ChemE). Engineering, they pay your tuition and give you a stipend. If you have a passion for what you do, go for it. Economically, you will make more money with a BS but it might not be as fulflling

Posted: 3/8/2013 12:01:36 AM EDT

[#40]

OK, so its Chem Eng. Do the math then... how soon does two years of life being paid to be a student and receiving a free Phd Chem Eng compare to two years salary at an MS ChemEng level? What's the opporuntiyt cost?

The differential between a BS ChemEng starting salary versus a MS ChemEng starting salary is only a few $1000/year, whereas the differential between a PhD and BS ChemEng is easily $5K/year. In addition, in the long run, depending on whether you work for an oil company or chemicals, PhD's with an MBA move up quicker, except for those Phd's who exercise a bit too much nerdiness and lack people skills/savvy. In Bio/Genetic/Pharma, I think its the same story, but not exactly sure...

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sooooo... any Engineers with their PhDs on here?

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