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Posted: 3/8/2016 3:20:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Saw that on Hodapp's blog. Our GM's letter regarding sexual orientation was posted last month:
On February 26th, 2016, MW R. Wesley Ing, Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Utah F&AM, issued the following statement to all Masons in the state: There are those today that believe as society changes so should Freemasonry. However, over the ages the basic tenets and principles of Masonry have proven to be unwavering and beyond reproach. That being said The Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Utah welcomes to its doors and admits to its privileges, worthy men of various creeds and classes. However, it insists that all men shall stand upon an exact equality. As this Grand Lodge does not concern itself with a Mason’s religious faith, ethnic background and or race, so neither does this Grand Lodge concern itself with a Mason’s sexual preference. All that is asked is that a Utah Freemason look well to his obligations and promote the good of the Fraternity within the confines of his lodge and the community around him. Sincerely & Fraternally, R. Wesley Ing Grand Master, F&AM of Utah |
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Posted: 3/9/2016 1:33:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saw that on Hodapp's blog. Our GM's letter regarding sexual orientation was posted last month: On February 26th, 2016, MW R. Wesley Ing, Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Utah F&AM, issued the following statement to all Masons in the state: There are those today that believe as society changes so should Freemasonry. However, over the ages the basic tenets and principles of Masonry have proven to be unwavering and beyond reproach. That being said The Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Utah welcomes to its doors and admits to its privileges, worthy men of various creeds and classes. However, it insists that all men shall stand upon an exact equality. As this Grand Lodge does not concern itself with a Mason’s religious faith, ethnic background and or race, so neither does this Grand Lodge concern itself with a Mason’s sexual preference. All that is asked is that a Utah Freemason look well to his obligations and promote the good of the Fraternity within the confines of his lodge and the community around him. Sincerely & Fraternally, R. Wesley Ing Grand Master, F&AM of Utah Well said. I've been in lodge with gay members, at least one of whom was a PM. All of them were good men, good Masons and equal in my eyes. |
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Posted: 3/9/2016 10:31:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Grand Lodge of DC no longer recognizes the GLs of GA or TN
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Posted: 3/9/2016 10:52:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Grand Lodge of DC no longer recognizes the GLs of GA or TN This is going to turn ugly. |
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Posted: 3/9/2016 12:48:57 PM EDT
[#5]
The North American Conference of Grand Masters met in Madison last week. I'm sure it was a topic of discussion.
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Posted: 3/9/2016 2:58:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The North American Conference of Grand Masters met in Milwaukee last week. I'm sure it was a topic of discussion. From what I was told, it was the elephant in the room that no one wanted to talk about. Also, Grand Lodge of Belgium no longer recognizes TN or GA |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 2:59:21 AM EDT
[#7]
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized
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Posted: 3/12/2016 11:55:56 AM EDT
[#8]
This is going to rip this fraternity apart more than anything in our history. It's really sad.
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Posted: 3/12/2016 2:35:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is going to rip this fraternity apart more than anything in our history. It's really sad. This is my thoughts as well. |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 7:09:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. |
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Posted: 3/12/2016 8:43:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. edit to clarify my poor writing: If a lodge from another state does not recognize a brother of mine they must not be a regular lodge, as my lodge is regular and accepted. |
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Posted: 3/13/2016 4:57:17 PM EDT
[#12]
I never thought I would say this, but I'm embarrassed of my GL's position on this matter. I'm also embarrassed that we are one of the few that don't recognize PH. Do they forget the 2nd section of the first degree, no they ignore it. Grand lodge in 2 weeks, this is going to get heated.
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Posted: 3/13/2016 10:08:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized Someday, this site will get a "like button"... |
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Posted: 3/14/2016 10:40:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never thought I would say this, but I'm embarrassed of my GL's position on this matter. I'm also embarrassed that we are one of the few that don't recognize PH. Do they forget the 2nd section of the first degree, no they ignore it. Grand lodge in 2 weeks, this is going to get heated. |
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Posted: 3/14/2016 1:15:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Georgia just stood its ground on this in writing. Expect more GLs to suspend recognition
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Posted: 3/14/2016 8:19:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:In Georgia we don't recognize PH either. They were approached by our GL a few years back and asked if we recognize them would they recognize use. They said "never". It's not just us. It took a joint resolution years ago to get it done. I'm trying to get it done for Grand Chapter, but I'm meeting with apathy in our end. The PH GHP and I've have become good friends. We're trying to work both ends. Their Grand Officers serve for two years and he's now in his second year. Hopefully, his Grand King is on board because I'll be GHP in two years. |
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Posted: 3/17/2016 4:00:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Georgia we don't recognize PH either. They were approached by our GL a few years back and asked if we recognize them would they recognize use. They said "never". It's not just us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never thought I would say this, but I'm embarrassed of my GL's position on this matter. I'm also embarrassed that we are one of the few that don't recognize PH. Do they forget the 2nd section of the first degree, no they ignore it. Grand lodge in 2 weeks, this is going to get heated. we got the same response a few years ago in alabama |
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Posted: 3/17/2016 5:29:17 PM EDT
[#18]
We recognize PH in NC.
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Posted: 3/17/2016 8:32:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. we always do. many forget their obligations during times like this. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 7:56:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we always do. many forget their obligations during times like this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. we always do. many forget their obligations during times like this. What obligation is that? Shall we just turn the other cheek and see if they'll kick out non Christians next? How far do you let them change the Pillars of Masonry to their whim before you think it's time to act. This isn't an issue of a lodge not voting in a gay member. I might find it reprehensible to not allow gays in your lodge, but as long as it's the members blocking him I can't say much about it. They have however gone out of their way to change the basic pillars of our work, something that is no small matter, and I would argue we have no larger threat to Masonry as we know it than just that. Messing with the Pillars should be punished swiftly and harshly, as they have made clandestine masons of themselves by not adhering to the sames rules everyone else does. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 8:28:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What obligation is that? Shall we just turn the other cheek and see if they'll kick out non Christians next? We know Georgia isn't fond of black people, should we add them to the list of things not allowed? How far do you let them change the Pillars of Masonry to their whim before you think it's time to act. This isn't an issue of a lodge not voting in a gay member. I might find it reprehensible to not allow gays in your lodge, but as long as it's the members blocking him I can't say much about it. They have however gone out of their way to change the basic pillars of our work, something that is no small matter, and I would argue we have no larger threat to Masonry as we know it than just that. Messing with the Pillars should be punished swiftly and harshly, as they have made clandestine masons of themselves by not adhering to the sames rules everyone else does. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. we always do. many forget their obligations during times like this. What obligation is that? Shall we just turn the other cheek and see if they'll kick out non Christians next? We know Georgia isn't fond of black people, should we add them to the list of things not allowed? How far do you let them change the Pillars of Masonry to their whim before you think it's time to act. This isn't an issue of a lodge not voting in a gay member. I might find it reprehensible to not allow gays in your lodge, but as long as it's the members blocking him I can't say much about it. They have however gone out of their way to change the basic pillars of our work, something that is no small matter, and I would argue we have no larger threat to Masonry as we know it than just that. Messing with the Pillars should be punished swiftly and harshly, as they have made clandestine masons of themselves by not adhering to the sames rules everyone else does. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 8:49:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What obligation is that? Shall we just turn the other cheek and see if they'll kick out non Christians next? We know Georgia isn't fond of black people, should we add them to the list of things not allowed? How far do you let them change the Pillars of Masonry to their whim before you think it's time to act. This isn't an issue of a lodge not voting in a gay member. I might find it reprehensible to not allow gays in your lodge, but as long as it's the members blocking him I can't say much about it. They have however gone out of their way to change the basic pillars of our work, something that is no small matter, and I would argue we have no larger threat to Masonry as we know it than just that. Messing with the Pillars should be punished swiftly and harshly, as they have made clandestine masons of themselves by not adhering to the sames rules everyone else does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
About damn time. I sincerely hope the GL of WA does the same. Anyone that would kick a brother of mine out over his sexual preference doesn't deserve to be recognized I hope they don't. Why are we punishing an entire state of masons over the actions of one? Has this been codified or is it just the decision of the current GM? I hope that cooler heads prevail and this blows over within a year. We have bigger issues we should be focusing our attention on. we always do. many forget their obligations during times like this. What obligation is that? Shall we just turn the other cheek and see if they'll kick out non Christians next? We know Georgia isn't fond of black people, should we add them to the list of things not allowed? How far do you let them change the Pillars of Masonry to their whim before you think it's time to act. This isn't an issue of a lodge not voting in a gay member. I might find it reprehensible to not allow gays in your lodge, but as long as it's the members blocking him I can't say much about it. They have however gone out of their way to change the basic pillars of our work, something that is no small matter, and I would argue we have no larger threat to Masonry as we know it than just that. Messing with the Pillars should be punished swiftly and harshly, as they have made clandestine masons of themselves by not adhering to the sames rules everyone else does. many states have a morality clause that includes sexual deviancy. i have zero issue with it personally and i think you need to step back and not assume that just because i belong to a southern lodge that i am a racist bigot. The COC and my obligation prevent me from telling you what i honestly think of your post. |
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Posted: 3/18/2016 9:19:40 PM EDT
[#23]
First: I apologize for sounding like I was personally attacking you. It was not meant that way, and it was aimed at the GL's of the states banning gay members. I did not mean disrespect to you or other members from the south.
Second: While it may seem wild slippery slope argument, there have been instances of GL's regulating what they deem to be religion, and as such banning religions they thought incompatible with Masonry. It is not such a stretch that a GM could ban any religion that doesn't align with his world view. Third: on sexual deviancy codes, can you cite some examples because for the sake of intellectual honesty I want to see what that means and how reasonable an argument it is. Lastly, I apologize again and meant no personal attack in my previous post. My jets are cooled. I will edit out the offending line as it was over the top. |
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Posted: 3/24/2016 9:24:26 PM EDT
[#24]
The GL of TN voted to continue its ban on gay men. They also ousted the Senior grand warden, a man with over 30 years of service to the fraternity, because he didn't agree.
All this, while the GM's of several states sat quietly in the background along with the sovereign grand inspector general of the Scottish Rite. 
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Posted: 3/25/2016 12:27:57 AM EDT
[#25]
This is very sad. So much for Harmony and Brotherly Love.
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Posted: 3/25/2016 12:54:57 AM EDT
[#26]
The Grand Master of all Mason's in Georgia also decided to keep the change in place. We were also told that if we travel to a state who has chosen to not recognize our grand lodge that we are to be treated like the Brethren that we are. The States issue is with our a grand Lodge, not us.
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Posted: 3/25/2016 8:37:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Grand Master of all Mason's in Georgia also decided to keep the change in place. We were also told that if we travel to a state who has chosen to not recognize our grand lodge that we are to be treated like the Brethren that we are. The States issue is with our a grand Lodge, not us. If you travel to a state that doesn't recognize your GL, they likely won't let you in. I think the GM of Georgia is being optimistic. South Carolina has not commented on the situation, but if our Committee on Recognition ruled that we did not recognize a particular GL we could not allow any member of a Lodge under that GL to enter. My obligation states that I must obey the rulings and edicts of my Grand Lodge. If my Grand Lodge says I cannot recognize a member of a Lodge that is under the jurisdiction of a particular Grand Lodge, then it is my responsibility to exclude that Mason from the tiled Lodge. That said, I personally don't have an opinion on the root matter. I don't pretend to put words into the Grand Lodge of South Carolina's mouth either. I will only say that I will abide by the rulings issued by my Grand Lodge. But I hope that all Masons will eventually meet on the level on this issue. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 8:49:41 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you travel to a state that doesn't recognize your GL, they likely won't let you in. I think the GM of Georgia is being optimistic. South Carolina has not commented on the situation, but if our Committee on Recognition ruled that we did not recognize a particular GL we could not allow any member of a Lodge under that GL to enter. My obligation states that I must obey the rulings and edicts of my Grand Lodge. If my Grand Lodge says I cannot recognize a member of a Lodge that is under the jurisdiction of a particular Grand Lodge, then it is my responsibility to exclude that Mason from the tiled Lodge. That said, I personally don't have an opinion on the root matter. I don't pretend to put words into the Grand Lodge of South Carolina's mouth either. I will only say that I will abide by the rulings issued by my Grand Lodge. But I hope that all Masons will eventually meet on the level on this issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Grand Master of all Mason's in Georgia also decided to keep the change in place. We were also told that if we travel to a state who has chosen to not recognize our grand lodge that we are to be treated like the Brethren that we are. The States issue is with our a grand Lodge, not us. If you travel to a state that doesn't recognize your GL, they likely won't let you in. I think the GM of Georgia is being optimistic. South Carolina has not commented on the situation, but if our Committee on Recognition ruled that we did not recognize a particular GL we could not allow any member of a Lodge under that GL to enter. My obligation states that I must obey the rulings and edicts of my Grand Lodge. If my Grand Lodge says I cannot recognize a member of a Lodge that is under the jurisdiction of a particular Grand Lodge, then it is my responsibility to exclude that Mason from the tiled Lodge. That said, I personally don't have an opinion on the root matter. I don't pretend to put words into the Grand Lodge of South Carolina's mouth either. I will only say that I will abide by the rulings issued by my Grand Lodge. But I hope that all Masons will eventually meet on the level on this issue. this. in the eyes of that grand lodge you are clandestine. obligations as usual are being ignored or forgotten by many on this issue. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 8:56:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Our Grandmasters Statement was that the other states said their beef was with GL not us. They said they would allow us in their lodge. I'm not rushing off to those states to find out.
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Posted: 3/25/2016 11:44:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our Grandmasters Statement was that the other states said their beef was with GL not us. They said they would allow us in their lodge. I'm not rushing off to those states to find out. Thankfully, UT has not terminated recognition with GA and TN. We have a fantastic GM this year who is not taking any rash actions on this topic. But if we did, you would be considered clandestine and not allowed to sit in one of our lodges. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 11:50:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thankfully, UT has not terminated recognition with GA and TN. We have a fantastic GM this year who is not taking any rash actions on this topic. But if we did, you would be considered clandestine and not allowed to sit in one of our lodges. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Our Grandmasters Statement was that the other states said their beef was with GL not us. They said they would allow us in their lodge. I'm not rushing off to those states to find out. Thankfully, UT has not terminated recognition with GA and TN. We have a fantastic GM this year who is not taking any rash actions on this topic. But if we did, you would be considered clandestine and not allowed to sit in one of our lodges. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 12:54:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand. You would be welcome in a lodge in Georgia. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Our Grandmasters Statement was that the other states said their beef was with GL not us. They said they would allow us in their lodge. I'm not rushing off to those states to find out. Thankfully, UT has not terminated recognition with GA and TN. We have a fantastic GM this year who is not taking any rash actions on this topic. But if we did, you would be considered clandestine and not allowed to sit in one of our lodges. But unable to do so. Without recognition, I cannot sit in lodge with what my Grand Lodge would consider clandestine masons. I am really hoping your next GM fixes this. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Brethren,
As I was sitting in the Grand Lodge of TN during it's annual communication, I was baffled buy the attitude of those assembled. It was a packed house, never in my years had it been so well attended. It wasn't the old guard pushing their values, it was both young and old. I don't talk about politics or religion in the lodge, I judge a man by his character, not his religion, color, or choice of mate. I kept thinking, sitting there, that it was 1860/61, they weren't going to let other states dictate what was happening in TN. I'm wondering what's next for TN, if you are not a "Christian", but a Jew or a Sikh are you next. I'm angry and embarrassed, I spoke to my secretary this morning, he has had 3 requests for demit since yesterday afternoon. We ask a man three questions before he is initiated, if he answers in the affirmative, he good in my eyes. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 1:17:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But unable to do so. Without recognition, I cannot sit in lodge with what my Grand Lodge would consider clandestine masons. I am really hoping your next GM fixes this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Our Grandmasters Statement was that the other states said their beef was with GL not us. They said they would allow us in their lodge. I'm not rushing off to those states to find out. Thankfully, UT has not terminated recognition with GA and TN. We have a fantastic GM this year who is not taking any rash actions on this topic. But if we did, you would be considered clandestine and not allowed to sit in one of our lodges. But unable to do so. Without recognition, I cannot sit in lodge with what my Grand Lodge would consider clandestine masons. I am really hoping your next GM fixes this. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 1:29:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Just so my position is known, I don't care what you do in the privacy of your house. Your personal life is between your SB and yourself.
Don't forget our GL also says its against Masonic code to fornicate. We get mad over homosexuality though. Odd. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 1:50:49 PM EDT
[#36]
To: Help, Aid and Assist
Never: Cheat, Wrong or Defraud Not just a Brother. But all mankind. That's what Freemasonry is. That's what Freemasons are to do. No conditions. |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 2:58:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To: Help, Aid and Assist Never: Cheat, Wrong or Defraud Not just a Brother. But all mankind. That's what Freemasonry is. That's what Freemasons are to do. No conditions. this |
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Posted: 3/25/2016 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryAs long as the southern baptists are in control it won't happen. They forgot a long time ago that were a fraternity of religious men who like to do things with like minded men who have a love for their Supreme Being. We aren't a wing of the baptist church. we have similar issues here |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 10:45:46 PM EDT
[#39]
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow?
There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 11:26:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! Then we best start bringing up on Masonic charges any man who is living with, or having sexual relations with, a woman they are not married to. I believe that is covered in TN or GA GL Code, but they are choosing to ignore that aspect of immoral behavior. Freemasonry has no business in anyone's bedroom. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 11:42:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then we best start bringing up on Masonic charges any man who is living with, or having sexual relations with, a woman they are not married to. I believe that is covered in TN or GA GL Code, but they are choosing to ignore that aspect of immoral behavior. Freemasonry has no business in anyone's bedroom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! Then we best start bringing up on Masonic charges any man who is living with, or having sexual relations with, a woman they are not married to. I believe that is covered in TN or GA GL Code, but they are choosing to ignore that aspect of immoral behavior. Freemasonry has no business in anyone's bedroom. What happens when they bring it to the Lodge? |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 1:53:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when they bring it to the Lodge? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! Then we best start bringing up on Masonic charges any man who is living with, or having sexual relations with, a woman they are not married to. I believe that is covered in TN or GA GL Code, but they are choosing to ignore that aspect of immoral behavior. Freemasonry has no business in anyone's bedroom. What happens when they bring it to the Lodge? Its not like they are going to start making out on the Masters Carpet or anything. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 5:21:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! If you don't want to sit in Lodge with gay Brothers, then you are free to demit at any time. |
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Posted: 4/20/2016 6:16:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What happens when they bring it to the Lodge? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! Then we best start bringing up on Masonic charges any man who is living with, or having sexual relations with, a woman they are not married to. I believe that is covered in TN or GA GL Code, but they are choosing to ignore that aspect of immoral behavior. Freemasonry has no business in anyone's bedroom. What happens when they bring it to the Lodge? If a straight brother brought their bedroom activities into the Lodge, I'd have a problem with that, too. Sexual orientation doesn't change my opinion of anyone in the Fraternity. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 10:59:44 AM EDT
[#45]
My personal feeling on this;
If you aren't an open and flamboyantly ghey person, then the lodge wouldn't really know would they? Now I don't believe a flamboyant in-your-face type wouldn't reflect well on the fraternity as a whole, either. These other GL's chiming in are going against the cardinal rule in my book. Religion and politics should not be discussed in a lodge setting. By them coming out with these decrees of not recognizing certain states, that is exactly what they are doing. So while it may be wrong to exclude gays (I have mixed feelings on the subject) It is equally wrong for these other states to do what they are doing as well. In my mind it's a bit like douchey musicians who won't do concerts in SC (because South Carolinans don't want guys with male plumbing hanging around in the bathroom with their daughters) but they'll go do a concert in countries where they execute people for being homosexuals. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 7:39:39 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you don't want to sit in Lodge with gay Brothers, then you are free to demit at any time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! If you don't want to sit in Lodge with gay Brothers, then you are free to demit at any time. No sir. I will do what I can to save the Lodge. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 7:55:16 AM EDT
[#47]
divide and conquer...............it works everywhere
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Posted: 4/24/2016 9:10:02 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No sir. I will do what I can to save the Lodge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been involved with a few threads about "homosexual" Masons. I am not in favor of accepting men living as a "homosexual" as masons. What about "transgender" women? Next? And does a Brother's husband qualify as a widow? There are sure to be some interesting Christmas parties in store for Masonic Lodges coming soon! If you don't want to sit in Lodge with gay Brothers, then you are free to demit at any time. No sir. I will do what I can to save the Lodge. Brother HighLighter, with respect, to save the lodge for what. So a bunch of old geezers can have a free dinner and then reminisce about how it used to be. Or should we all be saving the lodge by practicing enlightenment and sticking with our time honored tradition of acceptance of other men with different beliefs? The fraternity is having a membership crisis and is suffering a slow painful death. Are we to be the generation that lets it die through intolerance and bigotry? I too, don't believe in homosexuality. I can't even fathom anyone desiring another person of the same sex as a sexual partner. You and I have participated in threads about this same subject. That being said, I think that we both believe that we will one day have to answer for our transgressions against God. Whatever God determines that those transgressions are. And that God will then handle them as he sees fit. Until that day, aren't we taught not to judge, and to love our enemies (if you would go so far as call a homosexual that) as we love ourself? As usual, I will continue to pray for both of us, and for all of my brothers. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 11:21:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Brother HighLighter, with respect, to save the lodge for what. So a bunch of old geezers can have a free dinner and then reminisce about how it used to be. Or should we all be saving the lodge by practicing enlightenment and sticking with our time honored tradition of acceptance of other men with different beliefs? The fraternity is having a membership crisis and is suffering a slow painful death. Are we to be the generation that lets it die through intolerance and bigotry? I too, don't believe in homosexuality. I can't even fathom anyone desiring another person of the same sex as a sexual partner. You and I have participated in threads about this same subject. That being said, I think that we both believe that we will one day have to answer for our transgressions against God. Whatever God determines that those transgressions are. And that God will then handle them as he sees fit. Until that day, aren't we taught not to judge, and to love our enemies (if you would go so far as call a homosexual that) as we love ourself? As usual, I will continue to pray for both of us, and for all of my brothers. I see your point but what good is it to have 1 new (gay) member and lose 5-6 existing ones? In hope that you'll get 5-6 new gay members? I almost see it as a don't ask don't tell kind of thing. If the person conducts themselves in a respectful lifestyle (not openly flamboyant, marching in gay pride parades and such) then it shouldn't be an issue |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 12:46:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see your point but what good is it to have 1 new (gay) member and lose 5-6 existing ones? In hope that you'll get 5-6 new gay members? I almost see it as a don't ask don't tell kind of thing. If the person conducts themselves in a respectful lifestyle (not openly flamboyant, marching in gay pride parades and such) then it shouldn't be an issue I think you hit on a really good point there that applies to all members. Do their actions outside the lodge reflect well on the fraternity? We had a guy last year that wanted to make a statement on gun control by wrapping up an unloaded AK47 and leaving it in the rotunda of the state capital. The news somehow picked up that he was a member and reached out to his WM and Secretary for comments. |
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