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Posted: 7/3/2015 11:20:31 PM EDT
[#1]
To answer your last question, one of them wasn't. Now, to address the rest -
One of the finest Masons, if not one of the finest men, I had the privilege to call friend was gay. We lost him two years ago. I can't bring myself to take him out of my contacts in my phone. The notification popped up last week that it was his birthday. I cried. The past two years our Council Degree Festival has named in his honor. That should answer your offensive question. What is it with some Masons? Do you not understand the meaning of what you said in your obligations? Do they only apply to some Masons you deem "worthy" We had a man (it's tough to say "Brother" so I won't) come to visit when I was SW. I went to examine him and he asked, "You allow Prince Hall in here?". I stated we had recognition and they were more than welcome, but no one was there that night. He said, " But I saw a n***** when I came in.". I told him he was our JD and that he didn't pass his examination and wouldn't be admitted. When asked in Lodge why I hadn't allowed his entry I said, "He didn't know his obligation." As they say in other parts of this site, I don't think this will go as you expected. |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 11:24:39 PM EDT
[#2]
I know of several good, gay, Masons in our jurisdiction. Some are open about it, some it's only known to their closer friends. None push any "gay" agenda type things at any functions. They are just men, trying to make themselves better men. I don't have an issue with it.
In your eyes, what would/should make them ineligible to be a Mason? ETA: Should we not include a Jew or Muslim because our patrons are the Saints John? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 9:37:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To answer your last question, one of them wasn't. Now, to address the rest - One of the finest Masons, if not one of the finest men, I had the privilege to call friend was gay. We lost him two years ago. I can't bring myself to take him out of my contacts in my phone. The notification popped up last week that it was his birthday. I cried. The past two years our Council Degree Festival has named in his honor. That should answer your offensive question. What is it with some Masons? Do you not understand the meaning of what you said in your obligations? Do they only apply to some Masons you deem "worthy" We had a man (it's tough to say "Brother" so I won't) come to visit when I was SW. I went to examine him and he asked, "You allow Prince Hall in here?". I stated we had recognition and they were more than welcome, but no one was there that night. He said, " But I saw a n***** when I came in.". I told him he was our JD and that he didn't pass his examination and wouldn't be admitted. When asked in Lodge why I hadn't allowed his entry I said, "He didn't know his obligation." As they say in other parts of this site, I don't think this will go as you expected. I seek no approval here for my views. I am interested in hearing others views. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:04:47 AM EDT
[#4]
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:15:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know of several good, gay, Masons in our jurisdiction. Some are open about it, some it's only known to their closer friends. None push any "gay" agenda type things at any functions. They are just men, trying to make themselves better men. I don't have an issue with it. In your eyes, what would/should make them ineligible to be a Mason? ETA: Should we not include a Jew or Muslim because our patrons are the Saints John? Jews and Moslems agree with Christianity on many things, the sin of homosexual behavior being one of them. If a Jew or Moslem was worthy and well qualified and didn't find offence at the Christian-"ness" of the Lodge I would welcome them into the Lodge. As part of my interview to gain admittance into the Lodge I was asked questions like if I had been arrested for domestic violence. After a member I know that as part of the investigation the candidate is examined to see if there is any unacceptable character traits or behavior (beating his wife, thief, drug addict) he is engaged in. Nothing in the Obligation about that? I find homosexual activity immoral and unacceptable and would never be shy about pointing that out. I know I am not alone. Obligation are taken on the Bible. I'm a sinner but I try not to be. I don't tell God well this is just how I am so there! "In search of more Light" "making good men better" How does that play into a person who has no desire to become better? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:16:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. "well recommended" |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:18:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:23:37 PM EDT
[#8]
What comes to mind after reading some posts is this: How does Masonry make "better men" out of those she-males who are not "real men" at all? Namely those feminine-male submissives who are in essence the "wives" and/or "girlfriends" of dominant men? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:39:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). What if the Brother brings his husband to a Lodge function? Does your obligation now extend to "husbands" as well as wives? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:46:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if the Brother brings his husband to a Lodge function? Does your obligation now extend to "husbands" as well as wives? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). What if the Brother brings his husband to a Lodge function? Does your obligation now extend to "husbands" as well as wives? How is this a threat in any way to you? I want you to stop and think about what you are saying. This is the same horse shit that came out of people's mouths 50 years ago with interracial couples and is just as biggotted. If you belive that homosexuality is a sin, and you are Christian remember these words. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. If this is truly an sin in God's eys then they will find out one the inevitable day that theY meet their creator. Otherwise live and let live, it that persons preference weather by genetic disposition or personal choice. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:47:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"well recommended" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. "well recommended" Yes, and if the guy met the requirements for membership and the investigating committee delivered a positive report and denied him solely on the fact he was gay, I would find a new Lodge and fire off a letter to the Grand Master about their conduct |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:51:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is this a threat in any way to you? I want you to stop and think about what you are saying. This is the same horse shit that came out of people's mouths 50 years ago with interracial couples and is just as biggotted. If you belive that homosexuality is a sin, and you are Christian remember these words. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. If this is truly an sin in God's eys then they will find out one the inevitable day that theY meet their creator. Otherwise live and let live, it that persons preference weather by genetic disposition or personal choice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). What if the Brother brings his husband to a Lodge function? Does your obligation now extend to "husbands" as well as wives? How is this a threat in any way to you? I want you to stop and think about what you are saying. This is the same horse shit that came out of people's mouths 50 years ago with interracial couples and is just as biggotted. If you belive that homosexuality is a sin, and you are Christian remember these words. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. If this is truly an sin in God's eys then they will find out one the inevitable day that theY meet their creator. Otherwise live and let live, it that persons preference weather by genetic disposition or personal choice. It's no threat to me in any way. I am asking this because I wonder how this will effect/change Freemasonry. Does our obligation extend to "husbands" now? Are same sex partners welcomed at Lodge functions? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:04:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's no threat to me in any way. I am asking this because I wonder how this will effect/change Freemasonry. Does our obligation extend to "husbands" now? Are same sex partners welcomed at Lodge functions? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. Speaking as a 43 year Master Mason, the day I find out that a question is on a prospective candidate's petition here in Indiana, regarding his sexual preference, either written or asked verbally, will be the day before I request a demit.. The same with a brother's comment up the thread about refusing admission to a gentleman because he didn't know his obligations. I can understand the few jurisdictions that do not recognise Prince Hall. I don't have to agree, but each Grand Lodge governs it's own jurisdiction, and I definately agree with Masonic law, though it may be contrary to my personal beliefs. Their house, their rules.. I have several Prince Hall brothers who are close friends, indeed, one of them is an honorary member of my Lodge because of his participation and help in LOTS of degree work. I don't care what people do in their own bedrooms, as much as I don't want anyone to know what goes on in mine. It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! And for the record, as if I care, I proudly proclaim myself as a "Flaming Heterosexual"! (For all the knuckle draggers, cowans and eavesdroppers that read this un-tiled forum (not my Masonic brothers!), that means I am attracted to women; actually only one!). What if the Brother brings his husband to a Lodge function? Does your obligation now extend to "husbands" as well as wives? How is this a threat in any way to you? I want you to stop and think about what you are saying. This is the same horse shit that came out of people's mouths 50 years ago with interracial couples and is just as biggotted. If you belive that homosexuality is a sin, and you are Christian remember these words. Hate the sin, but love the sinner. If this is truly an sin in God's eys then they will find out one the inevitable day that theY meet their creator. Otherwise live and let live, it that persons preference weather by genetic disposition or personal choice. It's no threat to me in any way. I am asking this because I wonder how this will effect/change Freemasonry. Does our obligation extend to "husbands" now? Are same sex partners welcomed at Lodge functions? What if the other partner is the wife? Just asking. Can they join the Eastern Star? I hear heads exploding 
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:10:16 PM EDT
[#14]
It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions?
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:32:25 PM EDT
[#15]
From a Masonic point of view are husbands now considered widows? Are husbands protected or not against sexual misconduct?
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:39:02 PM EDT
[#16]
As a Police Detective (ret.) I see many "UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES" ahead with regard to the Supremes unconstitutional same sex marriage ruling, none of them good. (Or are they really "INTENDED CONSEQUENCES" as those of us with professional investigators' mindsets typically suspect?)
 
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions? An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 1:53:02 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions? An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change So what a Mason does in his personal life has no bearing on the Lodge? I respectfully disagree. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 2:09:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what a Mason does in his personal life has no bearing on the Lodge? I respectfully disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions? An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change So what a Mason does in his personal life has no bearing on the Lodge? I respectfully disagree. If a Mason is a pedophile, a bank robber, or a murderer, yes, it does have bearing on his membership in the lodge. These things are addressed by the laws of the land, and upon conviction by Masonic trial, will get you "booted" from the fraternity. Again, you, or NO ONE ELSE will peek into my bedroom, or personal life - it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Masons are not perfect, but we are always trying to do better - there has been only one perfect person that has walked the earth. So, I guess we can agree to respectfully disagree. As Dennis Miller says, "That's my opinion, I could be wrong (but it's still my opinion).). |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 2:15:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a Police Detective (ret.) I see many "UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES" ahead with regard to the Supremes unconstitutional same sex marriage ruling, none of them good. (Or are they really "INTENDED CONSEQUENCES" as those of us with professional investigators' mindsets typically suspect?) Intended. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 2:22:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If a Mason is a pedophile, a bank robber, or a murderer, yes, it does have bearing on his membership in the lodge. These things are addressed by the laws of the land, and upon conviction by Masonic trial, will get you "booted" from the fraternity. Again, you, or NO ONE ELSE will peek into my bedroom, or personal life - it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Masons are not perfect, but we are always trying to do better - there has been only one perfect person that has walked the earth. So, I guess we can agree to respectfully disagree. As Dennis Miller says, "That's my opinion, I could be wrong (but it's still my opinion).). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions? An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change So what a Mason does in his personal life has no bearing on the Lodge? I respectfully disagree. If a Mason is a pedophile, a bank robber, or a murderer, yes, it does have bearing on his membership in the lodge. These things are addressed by the laws of the land, and upon conviction by Masonic trial, will get you "booted" from the fraternity. Again, you, or NO ONE ELSE will peek into my bedroom, or personal life - it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Masons are not perfect, but we are always trying to do better - there has been only one perfect person that has walked the earth. So, I guess we can agree to respectfully disagree. As Dennis Miller says, "That's my opinion, I could be wrong (but it's still my opinion).). Since you brought up your relationship with a widow of a Master Mason, does not the Master Mason's obligation apply? |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 2:51:17 PM EDT
[#22]
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Since you brought up your relationship with a widow of a Master Mason, does not the Master Mason's obligation apply? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It could be argued, from a Christian perspective, that sex outside of marriage is immoral. If I am in such a relationship, can I be a Mason? Would my girlfriend be welcomed at Masonic functions? An excellent question! My girlfriend, who I refer to as "My Last Woman", is the widow of a highly respected Master Mason. Her and my late wife were good friends, as were myself and her late husband. If we were to attend a masonic function, or a function of an appendent body, and ANYONE raised a question of whether we slept in the same bed, I would request a demit the very next day! It is NO ONES BUSINESS!! The "old dragons", the wives of Masons who have nothing else to do, can mumble among themselveves, as long as I don't hear about it. Knowing my brothers, they would give me a "high five" in the parking lot for having a beautiful, lady who I care deeply about. Where on the aplication does it say, if you have a girlfriend, and are sleeping together, that you are unworthy to be a Mason, or have to be married? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Let's make it a requirement that we all wear body cams, and have video cameras in our homes, so that the powers that be can root out the rifraf and hold you to their lofty standards. "medicmandan", I'm not bringing your post/question as the subject of this rant. I'm just sick and tired of the bigotry and outright hatred shown by some of our "brothers" on Masonic forums. As has been said many time before, it will take a lot more Masonic funerals for things to change So what a Mason does in his personal life has no bearing on the Lodge? I respectfully disagree. If a Mason is a pedophile, a bank robber, or a murderer, yes, it does have bearing on his membership in the lodge. These things are addressed by the laws of the land, and upon conviction by Masonic trial, will get you "booted" from the fraternity. Again, you, or NO ONE ELSE will peek into my bedroom, or personal life - it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Masons are not perfect, but we are always trying to do better - there has been only one perfect person that has walked the earth. So, I guess we can agree to respectfully disagree. As Dennis Miller says, "That's my opinion, I could be wrong (but it's still my opinion).). Since you brought up your relationship with a widow of a Master Mason, does not the Master Mason's obligation apply? WHAT IN THE HOLY $#@& ARE YOU SUGGESTING??? The key word is WIDOW! Both she and I fulfilled our marital obligations - 'til death do us part. Are we supposed to outfit ourselves with sack cloth and ashes and roam the barren earth the rest of our lives?The stench of troll is really strong around here - if you want, I will PM you with my cell phone number so we can discuss this at a more personal level. By what misguided means do you even purpose to dictate to me what I, and the lady I love, do with the rest of our lives? Members of the group, I am sencerely sorry for this.I only wanted to contribute to the thread. In my entire life on the internet, this is the very first time things have went so far "south". I prufusly appologize to all the brothers here. Mod's if it's your desire, shut it down.Personally, I am all for it. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:08:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:25:20 PM EDT
[#24]
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:36:19 PM EDT
[#25]
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Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Illicit- forbidden by law, rules, or custom. To me a MM widow would fall under "custom". I don't want any of my Brothers dating my widow after I'm gone. And I find all MM widows off limits to me and to be protected. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:49:44 PM EDT
[#26]
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And how in the double toothpicks do you know that we are doing nothing more than laying in bed, with a bundling board between us, cuddling??? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUISINESS!!! Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. And how in the double toothpicks do you know that we are doing nothing more than laying in bed, with a bundling board between us, cuddling??? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUISINESS!!! Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Then your Grand Lodge Dictionary is different from mine - different strokes for different folks. A widow/widower is someone who she/he has lost a spouse by death. She/he is now single in the eye of God, or whoever you believe in-for all I care, your God can be green and live in a 7up bottle, as long as you believe in a Supreme Being. You are asked this once, at the EA degree. You are not asked if you believe in God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovea, or whoever. Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!! In Indiana, my obligation states that I will not violate the chastity of a Mason's wife, ect. When my late brother pased several years ago, his wife stood by him until the end. He died, she is no longer married, she is single, she is no longer his wife!! Why is this so hard to understand??? Mod's shut this down, please!! The infidels or idiots have taken it over. I no longer want to be a part of it-I'll just go quietly and read Jack Chic comic books all night. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:56:19 PM EDT
[#27]
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Then your Grand Lodge Dictionary is different from mine - different strokes for different folks. A widow/widower is someone who she/he has lost a spouse by death. She/he is now single in the eye of God, or whoever you believe in-for all I care, your God can be green and live in a 7up bottle, as long as you believe in a Supreme Being. You are asked this once, at the EA degree. You are not asked if you believe in God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovea, or whoever. Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!! In Indiana, my obligation states that I will not violate the chastity of a Mason's wife, ect. When my late brother pased several years ago, his wife stood by him until the end. He died, she is no longer married, she is single, she is no longer his wife!! Why is this so hard to understand??? Mod's shut this down, please!! The infidels or idiots have taken it over. I no longer want to be a part of it-I'll just go quietly and read Jack Chic comic books all night. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. And how in the double toothpicks do you know that we are doing nothing more than laying in bed, with a bundling board between us, cuddling??? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUISINESS!!! Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Then your Grand Lodge Dictionary is different from mine - different strokes for different folks. A widow/widower is someone who she/he has lost a spouse by death. She/he is now single in the eye of God, or whoever you believe in-for all I care, your God can be green and live in a 7up bottle, as long as you believe in a Supreme Being. You are asked this once, at the EA degree. You are not asked if you believe in God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovea, or whoever. Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!! In Indiana, my obligation states that I will not violate the chastity of a Mason's wife, ect. When my late brother pased several years ago, his wife stood by him until the end. He died, she is no longer married, she is single, she is no longer his wife!! Why is this so hard to understand??? Mod's shut this down, please!! The infidels or idiots have taken it over. I no longer want to be a part of it-I'll just go quietly and read Jack Chic comic books all night. I apologize if I offended you. Obviously the obligation of your GL differs from mine and it seems my interpretation of mine may differ from MM whose obligation is similar to mine.  I do think it is every Mason business on how the Brothers conduct themselves because it reflects on the Lodge as a whole.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 4:11:02 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I apologize if I offended you. Obviously the obligation of your GL differs from mine and it seems my interpretation of mine may differ from MM whose obligation is similar to mine. I do think it is every Mason business on how the Brothers conduct themselves because it reflects on the Lodge as a whole.Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. And how in the double toothpicks do you know that we are doing nothing more than laying in bed, with a bundling board between us, cuddling??? IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUISINESS!!! Then your obligation says something very different than mine. Illicit: not allowed by law : unlawful or illegal Then your Grand Lodge Dictionary is different from mine - different strokes for different folks. A widow/widower is someone who she/he has lost a spouse by death. She/he is now single in the eye of God, or whoever you believe in-for all I care, your God can be green and live in a 7up bottle, as long as you believe in a Supreme Being. You are asked this once, at the EA degree. You are not asked if you believe in God, Jesus, Allah, Jehovea, or whoever. Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!! In Indiana, my obligation states that I will not violate the chastity of a Mason's wife, ect. When my late brother pased several years ago, his wife stood by him until the end. He died, she is no longer married, she is single, she is no longer his wife!! Why is this so hard to understand??? Mod's shut this down, please!! The infidels or idiots have taken it over. I no longer want to be a part of it-I'll just go quietly and read Jack Chic comic books all night. I apologize if I offended you. Obviously the obligation of your GL differs from mine and it seems my interpretation of mine may differ from MM whose obligation is similar to mine. I do think it is every Mason business on how the Brothers conduct themselves because it reflects on the Lodge as a whole.My brother, and all others, no offense taken. Unfortunitlay, for all of us, my "last woman", as I have referred to her, may shortly weigh in here with her opinion. It will be ugly and true to her, and I love her, and my late Masonic brother. I don't yet understand how this thread got hijacked. If me, I appologize! |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 6:51:47 PM EDT
[#29]
This thread, unfortunately, is a prime example of why politics and religion are never discussed in Lodge. Inevitably, someone takes the "I'm morally superiorly to you" high ground and has to define that a "Mason" can only be someone who matches their beliefs.
AMU62, first you insult the fraternity, then you propose how to run it. Go troll somewhere else. HighLighter, the text of your obligations do not materially differ from those of any other jurisdiction. The only difference is your interpretation based on how you view them within the context of your personal religious beliefs. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 7:09:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Carl000, congratulations to you and your Lady. A man who can have one truly great love is rare these days. Finding a second after losing her, is genuinely unique.
If after my passing a Brother dedicates his life to making my widow happy and healthy, I'd consider it an act of true brotherly love. Before my untimely demise is a different story. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 9:26:10 PM EDT
[#31]
I still pose the question, are "husbands" of dead homosexual members to be considered widows and all that that implies? That question is not political or religious but a practical one that Freemasonry faces. Is there no one who will directly answer this question?
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Posted: 7/5/2015 8:48:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Yes, as the surviving spouse of a Brother they should be.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:13:45 AM EDT
[#33]
This is why we need that private forum. I believe we are treading closely to giving away too many details.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 12:53:40 PM EDT
[#34]
car1000 says: Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm glad you cleared that up! Many Christians think of it as a religious cult. In fact, I've never heard a Christian (or anyone else) call it a "fraternity" before. That does indeed improve my understanding. And everyone please be advised, my questions on this thread are based on a legitimate search for truth. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 1:54:42 PM EDT
[#35]
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car1000 says: Freemasonry is NOT a relegion, it's a FRATERNITY!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm glad you cleared that up! Many Christians think of it as a religious cult. In fact, I've never heard a Christian (or anyone else) call it a "fraternity" before. That does indeed improve my understanding. And everyone please be advised, my questions on this thread are based on a legitimate search for truth. Thanks for your interest in seaching for the truth. Where fundimental Christians get their backs in the air is the part of the Master Mason degree in which Hiram Abiff is "raised from his grave in the dessert. ". He is a moldy, putrified corpse, long dead, and he was being disinterrned for a more fitting burial back at "headquarters", as it were. He didn't re-animate like Jesus did, after raising from the tomb (if you are of the Christian faith, I don't care), He was still a rotten, smelly dead person! The whole naritive is allegory-you leave the old life behind, and continue on with a "new life", where you can, by example, make good men better. NOTHING in the 3 Masonic degrees have ANYTHING to do with religion, or the resurection. You have to believe in a Supreme Being, whether God, Jehova, or whoever, is up to you. You are only asked this question once, and that's it. As I've said, the Masonic fraternity dosn't care if your Supreme being is green, and lives in a 7up bottle. You can't be an Atheist, and believe in no higher power. Your beliefes are yours and yours alone - it's none of the Fraternity's business what those beliefs are! All of what I said can be found on many sites on the web. The only "secrets" we Freemasons have, are those which can identify ourselves among brothers, whether in the darkness or the light. It is a FRATERNITY that dates back to the mists of time. If you truly want to know what Freemasonry is all about, I would suggest geting a copy of Chris Hodapp's book, "Freemasonry for Dummies", The man, and my brother, speaks the truth! Chris's book "Solomon's Builders" gives one of the the most accurate and precise history of the world that I've ever read, concerning the builders of the great stone buildings of the early world. Remember this: Masonry is a Fraternity, not a religion! We strive to make good men better! |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 3:28:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still pose the question, are "husbands" of dead homosexual members to be considered widows and all that that implies? That question is not political or religious but a practical one that Freemasonry faces. Is there no one who will directly answer this question? HighLighter, heren is a reply from my "Last Woman", that I refered to in an earkier post. She slept on her response last night, and cut it down from 3 pages to this. I love this woman, and I pray you have a woman to love! Highlighter: I am the Last Woman that CarI000 spoke of. I had a wonderful first marriage. I did everything I possibly could for my husband while he was ill with cancer. In fact, I had breast cancer at the same time and worked my treatment around his and took some chances that I might not have taken otherwise because I knew he needed me. He did not survive. I did. My husband had thought so much of carI000 that in 2000 he made carI000 the executor of our wills. I think that in itself says something about the man. My husband thought carI000 was an honorable man and he proved to be. What happened between carI000 and I happened very slowly. He had been good friends with my husband I had been good friends with car1000's wife before she passed away. CarI000 knew what I was going through because he had done so years before. Nothing was rushed, forced or anything else. It happened. How I have been blessed to have 2 very good men in my life, I haven't a clue but I am thankful for that. I am not married now and do not see that anyone has the ability to dictate my life to me. I own my own business and am not easily swayed by pretty words. There has to be substance there. I find your wanting pigeon hole people interesting. The "wife" of the deceased Freemason you spoke of? Wouldn't "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" suffice for guidance? What many people fail to see with this new SCOTUS decision is that it will not change your life in any way. You will still have your values, still teach you children as you see fit. When I moved next door to John Mellancamp, I could not sing. Guess what? When I moved away from there I still couldn't sing. Just because you are around someone does not mean you automatically take on their traits unless you choose to do so. PSI: Thank you for understanding |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 6:24:32 PM EDT
[#37]
here it is not expressly spelled out but i suspect many lodges would consider it a crime of moral terpitude and therefore a dis-qualifier for being a proper candidate. then again my state also has a edict that states anyone that owns a bar or engages in the sale of alcohol <even as a cashier in a business> can not become a mason. Many things like this are considered in the don't ask don't tell area for most of us. A homosexual that is an otherwise good and moral man and not flaunting his sexuality i would have no issue with in lodge. the flaming idiot that lives by his sexuality i would blackball in heartbeat, just like i would a straight with the same attitude. So long as the man does not bring discredit upon the fraternity i don't really care.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:39:51 PM EDT
[#38]
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Yes, as the surviving spouse of a Brother they should be. Wow. I will never accept the legitimacy of same sex marriages. No Lodge that I am a member of will admit a homosexual. If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Freemasonry is not a religion. It is clearly a religious fraternity. If it isn't then it must be remade from it's foundation for the Holy Bible is used to hold a Mason's obligation. Mason's are to be good men. Not thieves, drunkards, cheats, wife beaters. Moral men. Homosexual behavior is sin like the rest but when it legitimized and accepted there is no morality left. I will never accept. The "it doesn't effect me" attitude will be the death of this Nation. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke. Make no mistake there is evil behind the assault of homosexuality against this Nation. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:45:54 PM EDT
[#39]
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HighLighter, heren is a reply from my "Last Woman", that I refered to in an earkier post. She slept on her response last night, and cut it down from 3 pages to this. I love this woman, and I pray you have a woman to love! Highlighter: I am the Last Woman that CarI000 spoke of. I had a wonderful first marriage. I did everything I possibly could for my husband while he was ill with cancer. In fact, I had breast cancer at the same time and worked my treatment around his and took some chances that I might not have taken otherwise because I knew he needed me. He did not survive. I did. My husband had thought so much of carI000 that in 2000 he made carI000 the executor of our wills. I think that in itself says something about the man. My husband thought carI000 was an honorable man and he proved to be. What happened between carI000 and I happened very slowly. He had been good friends with my husband I had been good friends with car1000's wife before she passed away. CarI000 knew what I was going through because he had done so years before. Nothing was rushed, forced or anything else. It happened. How I have been blessed to have 2 very good men in my life, I haven't a clue but I am thankful for that. I am not married now and do not see that anyone has the ability to dictate my life to me. I own my own business and am not easily swayed by pretty words. There has to be substance there. I find your wanting pigeon hole people interesting. The "wife" of the deceased Freemason you spoke of? Wouldn't "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" suffice for guidance? What many people fail to see with this new SCOTUS decision is that it will not change your life in any way. You will still have your values, still teach you children as you see fit. When I moved next door to John Mellancamp, I could not sing. Guess what? When I moved away from there I still couldn't sing. Just because you are around someone does not mean you automatically take on their traits unless you choose to do so. PSI: Thank you for understanding Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I still pose the question, are "husbands" of dead homosexual members to be considered widows and all that that implies? That question is not political or religious but a practical one that Freemasonry faces. Is there no one who will directly answer this question? HighLighter, heren is a reply from my "Last Woman", that I refered to in an earkier post. She slept on her response last night, and cut it down from 3 pages to this. I love this woman, and I pray you have a woman to love! Highlighter: I am the Last Woman that CarI000 spoke of. I had a wonderful first marriage. I did everything I possibly could for my husband while he was ill with cancer. In fact, I had breast cancer at the same time and worked my treatment around his and took some chances that I might not have taken otherwise because I knew he needed me. He did not survive. I did. My husband had thought so much of carI000 that in 2000 he made carI000 the executor of our wills. I think that in itself says something about the man. My husband thought carI000 was an honorable man and he proved to be. What happened between carI000 and I happened very slowly. He had been good friends with my husband I had been good friends with car1000's wife before she passed away. CarI000 knew what I was going through because he had done so years before. Nothing was rushed, forced or anything else. It happened. How I have been blessed to have 2 very good men in my life, I haven't a clue but I am thankful for that. I am not married now and do not see that anyone has the ability to dictate my life to me. I own my own business and am not easily swayed by pretty words. There has to be substance there. I find your wanting pigeon hole people interesting. The "wife" of the deceased Freemason you spoke of? Wouldn't "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" suffice for guidance? What many people fail to see with this new SCOTUS decision is that it will not change your life in any way. You will still have your values, still teach you children as you see fit. When I moved next door to John Mellancamp, I could not sing. Guess what? When I moved away from there I still couldn't sing. Just because you are around someone does not mean you automatically take on their traits unless you choose to do so. PSI: Thank you for understanding Again if I stepped on your toes sorry. We just have a different view of things. You are misguided if you think that same sex marriages being legitimized will not change every single persons life in this Nation. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 11:07:16 PM EDT
[#40]
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If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, as the surviving spouse of a Brother they should be. If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Highlighter, How dare you state that anyone here would clandestinely raise a MM. As I've previously stated one of my best friends and Brother was gay, you have now accused my entire Lodge and myself. You need to dismount your high horse, re-examine your obligations and remember the five things explained to you upon being raised. Mods, I believe this one needs to be locked. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:44:48 AM EDT
[#41]
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Wow. I will never accept the legitimacy of same sex marriages. No Lodge that I am a member of will admit a homosexual. If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Freemasonry is not a religion. It is clearly a religious fraternity. If it isn't then it must be remade from it's foundation for the Holy Bible is used to hold a Mason's obligation. Mason's are to be good men. Not thieves, drunkards, cheats, wife beaters. Moral men. Homosexual behavior is sin like the rest but when it legitimized and accepted there is no morality left. I will never accept. The "it doesn't effect me" attitude will be the death of this Nation. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke. Make no mistake there is evil behind the assault of homosexuality against this Nation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, as the surviving spouse of a Brother they should be. Wow. I will never accept the legitimacy of same sex marriages. No Lodge that I am a member of will admit a homosexual. If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Freemasonry is not a religion. It is clearly a religious fraternity. If it isn't then it must be remade from it's foundation for the Holy Bible is used to hold a Mason's obligation. Mason's are to be good men. Not thieves, drunkards, cheats, wife beaters. Moral men. Homosexual behavior is sin like the rest but when it legitimized and accepted there is no morality left. I will never accept. The "it doesn't effect me" attitude will be the death of this Nation. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke. Make no mistake there is evil behind the assault of homosexuality against this Nation. that part is simply incorrect. the man's belief in HIS faith and deity are what upholds our obligation. Not a book nor the bible. there is a very good reason we use the Sacred Volume of the candidate to give his obligation. That is not always a bible. While freemasonry certainly has some religious aspects<ie.. we teach a man to learn and follow HIS faith>, the core philosophy of masonry is not christian nor any other religion. Religious principles are used to teach as anciently it was common ground for people to use as a learning platform in times when most knew religion but could not read. to be frank, anyone that believes masonry promotes christianity or any other religion above any other has not studied masonry. We all agree a mason should be a good upstanding man of good moral character. My personal belief is that homosexuality is a mental illness and a man can certainly be of good character in every other aspect of life, but that may well show they are not a proper candidate for masonry. <this is my personal belief only>. That said if the GL ok's it i will accept the man as a MM and brother like any other until he proves to be unworthy. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:06:33 AM EDT
[#42]
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This is why we need that private forum. I believe we are treading closely to giving away too many details. Also, those here interested in Freemasonry read these threads and have perspectives colored by them. Some good, some bad. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:29:55 AM EDT
[#43]
to some degree i think this is a good thing. it shows that we are willing to discuss things in an adult fashion and educate each other. Everything has a good and bad aspect. it's how we deal with the bad stuff that makes this special. Even in a disagreement, everyone is still my brother.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 12:43:46 PM EDT
[#44]
To clarify, I'm not a Mason but a Christian, a former police detective and majored in American History, Political Science, American Government and Law (including upper level classes in Constitutional Law) at the "U". I'm identifying my background so you will understand where I'm coming from when I make the following observations.
(1) The Supremes did not "legitimize" homosexuality or same sex marriage as some have suggested because they don't have the Constitutional authority to do so. Only Congress has the authority to legislate (pass laws) and then only in those areas specifically authorized by the Constitution. And none of the Constitutionally authorized areas include sex, marriage or homosexuality. What the Supreme Court did do was arrogantly exceed its Constitutional authority by trespassing in areas where it isn't legally allowed to go. (Read the 10th Amendment for enlightenment). (2) As can be seen by reading this thread, the Supremes' "same sex marriage" ruling will have profound negative consequences in many areas of national life, including within the Freemasons. And while many of these consequences may have been unintended by the Court, they nevertheless were generated by the Court, are happening and will no doubt keep happening. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 1:11:22 PM EDT
[#45]
things have come and gone over the years. it won't affect freemasonry much at all. Freemasonry is an exclusive fraternity. By that i mean we exclude those not deemed to be proper members. reasons are not required to be given and it's considered an offense to state them .Membership is based on individual members vote. any man may be excluded for any reason. Men are denied membership everyday it would be VERY hard to prove discrimination.
this will have very little effect on us. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:07:51 PM EDT
[#46]
It's no threat to me in any way. I am asking this because I wonder how this will effect/change Freemasonry. Does our obligation extend to "husbands" now? Are same sex partners welcomed at Lodge functions?
What if the other partner is the wife? Just asking. Can they join the Eastern Star? I hear heads exploding Sure, why not? Masons can join OES as well if they want to. The Matron of an OES chapter may not like it, but if the Grand Lodge of the Jurist Diction approves of it they are an appendent body and if they do not conform to the Grand Lodge then they are going to have a bad time and have a much longer drive to a meeting. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:13:23 PM EDT
[#47]
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Carl000, Brother, I only brought it up After you put your personal business out for the world to see. You need to look up the definition of "widow". As it applies to a Master Mason you may have sexual relationships with widows just not widows of MM. That's what my obligation said. And this is widely accepted as don't go after them for sport, treat them with respect due, etc, etc, etc. As long as she is widowed, and you are not a married man or in a committed relationship with another person and you two enjoy being together good luck getting a Brother brought up on charges. Should you not be a gentleman, and are out of line out on your ass you should go after due process is given. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:18:35 PM EDT
[#48]
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Also, those here interested in Freemasonry read these threads and have perspectives colored by them. Some good, some bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This is why we need that private forum. I believe we are treading closely to giving away too many details. Also, those here interested in Freemasonry read these threads and have perspectives colored by them. Some good, some bad. The Fraternity as a whole encourages open debate, free thought and the democratic process. A Brother is entitled to his own opinions, and another Brother needs to be willing to accept them, but at the same time be willing to have a discussion about them in an adult manner should the need arise. The only topics not open for discussion in Lodge are politics and religion. If it is not during Lodge, then those discussions may be had, but if you are just trolling you are going to have a bad time. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:13:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why we need that private forum. I believe we are treading closely to giving away too many details. Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is why we need that private forum. I believe we are treading closely to giving away too many details. Quoted:
A man fee born, of lawful age and well recommended that has a belief in a supreme being and immortality of the soul. Nope, nothing about who you like to screw is in there, nothing about color, creed, etc. Denying a man admission to the fraternity if he petitions solely based on the fact he is gay would be just as unmasonic for denying a man because of the color of his skin or the religion he keeps. 
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:42:58 PM EDT
[#50]
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that part is simply incorrect. the man's belief in HIS faith and deity are what upholds our obligation. Not a book nor the bible. there is a very good reason we use the Sacred Volume of the candidate to give his obligation. That is not always a bible. While freemasonry certainly has some religious aspects<ie.. we teach a man to learn and follow HIS faith>, the core philosophy of masonry is not christian nor any other religion. Religious principles are used to teach as anciently it was common ground for people to use as a learning platform in times when most knew religion but could not read. to be frank, anyone that believes masonry promotes christianity or any other religion above any other has not studied masonry. We all agree a mason should be a good upstanding man of good moral character. My personal belief is that homosexuality is a mental illness and a man can certainly be of good character in every other aspect of life, but that may well show they are not a proper candidate for masonry. <this is my personal belief only>. That said if the GL ok's it i will accept the man as a MM and brother like any other until he proves to be unworthy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yes, as the surviving spouse of a Brother they should be. Wow. I will never accept the legitimacy of same sex marriages. No Lodge that I am a member of will admit a homosexual. If from another lodge I consider him clandestinely made. Freemasonry is not a religion. It is clearly a religious fraternity. If it isn't then it must be remade from it's foundation for the Holy Bible is used to hold a Mason's obligation. Mason's are to be good men. Not thieves, drunkards, cheats, wife beaters. Moral men. Homosexual behavior is sin like the rest but when it legitimized and accepted there is no morality left. I will never accept. The "it doesn't effect me" attitude will be the death of this Nation. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke. Make no mistake there is evil behind the assault of homosexuality against this Nation. that part is simply incorrect. the man's belief in HIS faith and deity are what upholds our obligation. Not a book nor the bible. there is a very good reason we use the Sacred Volume of the candidate to give his obligation. That is not always a bible. While freemasonry certainly has some religious aspects<ie.. we teach a man to learn and follow HIS faith>, the core philosophy of masonry is not christian nor any other religion. Religious principles are used to teach as anciently it was common ground for people to use as a learning platform in times when most knew religion but could not read. to be frank, anyone that believes masonry promotes christianity or any other religion above any other has not studied masonry. We all agree a mason should be a good upstanding man of good moral character. My personal belief is that homosexuality is a mental illness and a man can certainly be of good character in every other aspect of life, but that may well show they are not a proper candidate for masonry. <this is my personal belief only>. That said if the GL ok's it i will accept the man as a MM and brother like any other until he proves to be unworthy. I have been taught as you say that Freemasonry does not endorse any religion but I feel the way I do because there sure is ALOT of material in the rituals is straight out of the Bible. I read a story about Rudyard Kipling and his experiences in Indian Lodges. Hindus were made Masons. I am not sure if Hindus have a Sacred Volume but I'm assuming the rituals where not rewritten from that Hindu test for them? Maybe they are. Any one know? In my Lodge the WM always ends prayer in Jesus' name. |
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