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Posted: 6/29/2015 4:03:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neither do I. But I do remember saying, "I w c t a a b a t l, r, a r o t MM d a o t L o w I m h b a m, s f a t s s c t m k, a w e m a s t c, l a e o t GL u w t s m b." In my jurisdiction firearms in lodge have not been addressed by the GL so at this time none of us that do carry in lodge are in violation of our obligations. 
You've got a few different words there than we do in Utah. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 4:36:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my jurisdiction firearms in lodge have not been addressed by the GL so at this time none of us that do carry in lodge are in violation of our obligations.
You've got a few different words there than we do in Utah. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Neither do I. But I do remember saying, "I w c t a a b a t l, r, a r o t MM d a o t L o w I m h b a m, s f a t s s c t m k, a w e m a s t c, l a e o t GL u w t s m b." In my jurisdiction firearms in lodge have not been addressed by the GL so at this time none of us that do carry in lodge are in violation of our obligations.
You've got a few different words there than we do in Utah. Yeah, everywhere is a little different. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 5:24:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would talk to the WM about this and how he is prepared to handle the concerns of Brothers like you. This. I have never carried in any Lodge I've been in. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:27:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Kinda funny as last night I was going through my FC I noticed a couple carrying in the lodge. No one mentions anything about them. I figure its best not to ask a question you may not want to hear the answer too.
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Posted: 7/3/2015 10:35:25 PM EDT
[#5]
The only time I haven't carried in Lodge is when I was receiving my Degrees.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:36:59 AM EDT
[#6]
i have always found it insulting that an organization that tells me how far we go to great lengths to vet men of proper character and obligate them to come to our aid and care for our families in times of crisis or our death, yet we can't trust that same man to be armed or have a beer.
if i can't trust a brother this basic of a level, how can i trust him with my life and the welfare of my family. We either live our values or we don't. IMHO there is no black and white here. this is why vetting candidates properly and holding our brothers accountable is so important. it is the thing that separates us from the rotary club. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 10:40:44 AM EDT
[#7]
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Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 11:40:39 AM EDT
[#8]
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I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. My comment does not allude to the the way a candidate is prepared prior to his first admittance. I'm referring to obeying edicts. There are no provisions for ignoring portions of your obligations with which you disagree. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 11:44:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My comment does not allude to the the way a candidate is prepared prior to his first admittance. I'm referring to obeying edicts. There are no provisions for ignoring portions of your obligations with which you disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. My comment does not allude to the the way a candidate is prepared prior to his first admittance. I'm referring to obeying edicts. There are no provisions for ignoring portions of your obligations with which you disagree. Oh I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care. I will carry should I desire. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:55:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have always found it insulting that an organization that tells me how far we go to great lengths to vet men of proper character and obligate them to come to our aid and care for our families in times of crisis or our death, yet we can't trust that same man to be armed or have a beer. if i can't trust a brother this basic of a level, how can i trust him with my life and the welfare of my family. We either live our values or we don't. IMHO there is no black and white here. this is why vetting candidates properly and holding our brothers accountable is so important. it is the thing that separates us from the rotary club. 
Beer Slayer for the win. Again. |
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Posted: 7/4/2015 12:56:57 PM EDT
[#11]
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Oh I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care. I will carry should I desire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. My comment does not allude to the the way a candidate is prepared prior to his first admittance. I'm referring to obeying edicts. There are no provisions for ignoring portions of your obligations with which you disagree. Oh I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care. I will carry should I desire.
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Posted: 7/4/2015 3:19:10 PM EDT
[#12]
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Oh I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care. I will carry should I desire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. I disagree, an EA is unarmed as they are unknown and not yet bound by an obligation. The same reason there is a cable tow. After that I see no reason. My comment does not allude to the the way a candidate is prepared prior to his first admittance. I'm referring to obeying edicts. There are no provisions for ignoring portions of your obligations with which you disagree. Oh I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I don't care. I will carry should I desire. currently my grand lodge leaves that up to the lodges to decide. I don't visit lodges that don't allow it. Should my grand lodge ban it, it would simply cause me to no longer attend lodge. that does not mean i am no longer a mason nor does it mean i have violated my obligation. i have no requirement to attend a lodge only that i belong to one. the principles of masonry are no less important ooutside the lodge, nor does my obligation as a MM end at the door. <although some men tend to think it does> |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 8:24:13 PM EDT
[#13]
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I am a member of an Indiana Lodge. I have never been notified about this new ruling and have and will continue to carry concealed in the lodge. It is not a matter of trust it is a matter of personal protection if at all possible. Our indiana lodge was notified. As the Tyler I brought in a safe. |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 9:59:35 PM EDT
[#14]
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Don't worry about it Brother. In IL, if you're good under state law, you can carry in lodge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hmmm! I'm hesitant to do any research regarding carrying at my lodge, now!!! The subject has never been brought up, or at least while I have attended a stated. Maybe there has been a 'ruling' sent down from the Grand, but I haven't personally heard of any. I carry to our stated meetings and other functions, and will continue to do so, until I am told otherwise. If that ever does happen.......Well, I hope it doesn't, as I too refuse to patronize establishments who deny my right to carry. Don't worry about it Brother. In IL, if you're good under state law, you can carry in lodge. Ummmm, A couple of years ago IL Grand Lodge did a vote to change the existing rule of no guns in blue lodge. The vote failed. No carrying in IL lodges either... 
I could honestly argue both sides of the deal, based on my own beliefs. On one side I believe in the 2A & that concealed means concealed. On the other hand you have the oaths we all took with our hand on the bible & the rule of the voting members at Grand Lodge. LEO's disarm & lock up their weapons in the sally port of a jail & I would consider that a far more dangerous area than my lodge room. Just saying... |
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Posted: 10/14/2015 10:11:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a lot of men here have made the comment that no one should bring an offensive or defensive item into the lodge. if you look into the origins of this you will find it does not pertain to a MM. only to an EA and FC. they are not properly vetted or educated and still not on the level of trust and obligation of a MM. like many things this is one of those things uneducated masons have perverted into policy. I'm not going to disagree with you on what you bring up about the oaths of EA & FC, but there are other oaths regarding being truthful with fellow MM's & following the rules of the lodge. Not trying to argue but merely make another point of discussion.
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Posted: 12/7/2015 11:57:07 PM EDT
[#16]
OP, my lodge is in NWI. I hadn't been to a stated meeting in about 9 months. The lock box was a new one for me, but I didn't ask when/why it showed up. I really don't mind leaving it at the door. What I do mind is that there are guys pulling loaded firearms out of pockets, holsters and boots and placing them into this box. It seems a lot more risky than having someone armed.
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Posted: 12/8/2015 11:11:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Grand Lodge has had an edict for several years that there shall be, "No firearms in Lodges of Master Masons." One could debate what a "Lodge of Master Masons" is: a room full of guys or a building.
Our building is owned by a corporation and run by a board of directors. We are home to four Lodges, a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, a Council of Royal and Slect Masters, a Commandery of Knights Templar, a Scottish Rite Valley, a Chapter of the Order of the Eastern Star, a Bethel of Job's Daughters, Chapter of DeMoley and a Masonic library and museum. Grand Lodge does not own our building. It's easy to interpret that the lodge is the room when a "Lodge of Master Masons" is open. We, the board, have made no other ruling or statement. Since the overwhelming majority of negligent discharges occur then loading, unloading, holstering and drawing a firearm, we will not install lockers. If a Brother chooses to follow the edict, he can take care of that type of business in the parking lot. We all agreed that if an "aw-shit" were to happen, we'd rather it happened there. |
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Posted: 12/8/2015 3:24:42 PM EDT
[#18]
The Grand Lodge of Georgia overturned the earlier edict of no guns in lodge. We can now carry in lodge.
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Posted: 12/16/2015 9:39:37 PM EDT
[#19]
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The only time I haven't carried in Lodge is when I was receiving my Degrees. This. During degrees No carry. There were no belts in our degree apparel. After 3rd degree - all was right with the world. |
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Posted: 12/19/2015 12:08:03 PM EDT
[#20]
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The brothers in my lodge are all trusted... I never considered carrying into the lodge. If you are concerned for personal safety @ lodge affairs carry a blade. Chris Rock put it best. Don't go to parties with metal detectors. Sure it feels safe inside, but what about all the _______ outside with guns, they know you ain't got one. There are few things that mean more to to me than lodge. My right to defend is one of them |
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Posted: 12/19/2015 1:00:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a lot of men here have made the comment that no one should bring an offensive or defensive item into the lodge. if you look into the origins of this you will find it does not pertain to a MM. only to an EA and FC. they are not properly vetted or educated and still not on the level of trust and obligation of a MM. like many things this is one of those things uneducated masons have perverted into policy. This is exactly how it was explained to me and it makes perfect sense. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 8:39:58 AM EDT
[#22]
. In a world of compromise.....I do not.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 11:37:39 AM EDT
[#23]
with the recent foiled terror attack on a lodge i suspect the tylers job is about to become more real than customary in a lot of lodges.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 11:49:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: with the recent foiled terror attack on a lodge i suspect the tylers job is about to become more real than customary in a lot of lodges. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 11:59:37 AM EDT
[#25]
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with the recent foiled terror attack on a lodge i suspect the tylers job is about to become more real than customary in a lot of lodges. There's no terrorist in the world that could stand up to a 70 year old Tyler with a dull sword! |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 12:03:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Our lodge has several police and deputies as members and in the line. It has become a long tradition (6-7yrs) that the Tyler has a CCW and carries. I know during my tenure I carried my G30SF or G23.
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Posted: 1/27/2016 12:04:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's no terrorist in the world that could stand up to a 70 year old Tyler with a dull sword! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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with the recent foiled terror attack on a lodge i suspect the tylers job is about to become more real than customary in a lot of lodges. There's no terrorist in the world that could stand up to a 70 year old Tyler with a dull sword! just having to listen to the mans stories about his prostate and how the younger masons are screwing up the lodge would be enough deterrent to make them off themselves in the parking lot before they got in. |
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Posted: 1/27/2016 3:26:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My apologies Brother if I offended you, That was not my intent. I was simply stating that if your convictions on this issue conflict to your obligations; to the point where you make a decision to violate your obligations: then perhaps you should leave the Craft. You did state you were considering resigning from the fraternity over this issue, and you asked if you were wrong. If you weren't wanting an opinion other than your own, you shouldn't have asked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. PSI, respectfully, you're entitled to your opinion about me. I'm simply looking for aid from my brothers who may have a different perspective than I. I'm looking for someone to shed some light on this and lead me from the darkness I'm currently feeling. My apologies Brother if I offended you, That was not my intent. I was simply stating that if your convictions on this issue conflict to your obligations; to the point where you make a decision to violate your obligations: then perhaps you should leave the Craft. You did state you were considering resigning from the fraternity over this issue, and you asked if you were wrong. If you weren't wanting an opinion other than your own, you shouldn't have asked. Yes but in this instance, "I will be an unarmed victim" wasn't in his obligation. This shit was pulled in OH years before I became a mason, It was not well received and went away with the new GM. Personally, I feel that concealed is concealed. The natural right of self defense is a gift to us from the GAOTU. No man can take that away. OP, do all masons show up at meetings in Illinois with only one shoe & a naked left knee? After all that's what EA's do right? |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 9:37:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes but in this instance, "I will be an unarmed victim" wasn't in his obligation. This shit was pulled in OH years before I became a mason, It was not well received and went away with the new GM. Personally, I feel that concealed is concealed. The natural right of self defense is a gift to us from the GAOTU. No man can take that away. OP, do all masons show up at meetings in Illinois with only one shoe & a naked left knee? After all that's what EA's do right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Am I wrong about this? Yes You bound yourself to certain conditions while kneeling at the alter. If you can't HONOR those conditions, then the Craft isn't for you. PSI, respectfully, you're entitled to your opinion about me. I'm simply looking for aid from my brothers who may have a different perspective than I. I'm looking for someone to shed some light on this and lead me from the darkness I'm currently feeling. My apologies Brother if I offended you, That was not my intent. I was simply stating that if your convictions on this issue conflict to your obligations; to the point where you make a decision to violate your obligations: then perhaps you should leave the Craft. You did state you were considering resigning from the fraternity over this issue, and you asked if you were wrong. If you weren't wanting an opinion other than your own, you shouldn't have asked. Yes but in this instance, "I will be an unarmed victim" wasn't in his obligation. This shit was pulled in OH years before I became a mason, It was not well received and went away with the new GM. Personally, I feel that concealed is concealed. The natural right of self defense is a gift to us from the GAOTU. No man can take that away. OP, do all masons show up at meetings in Illinois with only one shoe & a naked left knee? After all that's what EA's do right? My lodge is in Indiana. To answer your question, no, other masons don't attend meetings dressed as EA's. To update on my original post, I've, so far, remained in the lodge and regularly attend meetings. There are two frustrating things about this decree from the GL. The first is that police officers are allowed to carry a weapon, which means their rights are greater than mine (in an organization that values all men equally). The second thing is that the GL made special mention of removing my right, but I've heard nothing about if the decree has been upheld or rescinded. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 12:12:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My lodge is in Indiana. To answer your question, no, other masons don't attend meetings dressed as EA's. To update on my original post, I've, so far, remained in the lodge and regularly attend meetings. There are two frustrating things about this decree from the GL. The first is that police officers are allowed to carry a weapon, which means their rights are greater than mine (in an organization that values all men equally). The second thing is that the GL made special mention of removing my right, but I've heard nothing about if the decree has been upheld or rescinded. Check GL Code. Edicts from our GM are only for his term unless reissued by the next GM. |
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Posted: 1/28/2016 1:06:29 PM EDT
[#31]
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Check GL Code. Edicts from our GM are only for his term unless reissued by the next GM. That generally depends on if his allocution is moved to be "Received" or "Adopted". If "Received" it is just a summary of that year and spread upon the minutes of the Annual Communication. If "adopted" it means whatever he did, and is stated in his allocution, becomes Masonic Law until repealed by future GM's and/or delegates. So, pay attention during Grand Lodge. At least one well informed Brother needs to be awake. :) |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 10:28:28 AM EDT
[#32]
I still say 'Concealed is Concealed'
The GAOTU gifted us with the natural right of self protection. No man can take that away |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 4:11:59 PM EDT
[#33]
This topic came up during GL this year. Starts out with a story from WY's GM. He was in a lodge meeting the night the Wisconsin story broke. The tyler remarked that we was going to stand guard with his 12 gauge. The GM replied (jokingly) that his recommendation it that he go with double 00 buckshot.
Our GM chimed in that we need to be aware of our surroundings and recommended locking the building once the meeting started. He reminded everyone that there is nothing prohibiting firearms in lodge but did encourage us to make sure they stay concealed. |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 6:07:48 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My lodge is in Indiana. To answer your question, no, other masons don't attend meetings dressed as EA's. To update on my original post, I've, so far, remained in the lodge and regularly attend meetings. There are two frustrating things about this decree from the GL. The first is that police officers are allowed to carry a weapon, which means their rights are greater than mine (in an organization that values all men equally). The second thing is that the GL made special mention of removing my right, but I've heard nothing about if the decree has been upheld or rescinded. I can see being pissed at that too. You have to pay dues and you're suppose to be considered trustworthy and respected. But not if you're armed? If you're carrying a firearm you're suddenly untrustworthy? (unless of course the local government issues you one?)  
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Posted: 1/31/2016 7:02:44 PM EDT
[#35]
We have several members open carry in lodge now. It's a lot easier on your sport coat that way.
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Posted: 2/1/2016 8:51:05 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I still say 'Concealed is Concealed' The GAOTU gifted us with the natural right of self protection. No man can take that away Common sense prevails, brother. Thank You. Nice knowing Im not the only one who feels this way. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 7:45:53 PM EDT
[#37]
We voted unanimously this month to allow CCW in lodge. Prior to that, there is a gun safe in the secretary's office that the SOHMC purchased for storage during stated meetings.
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Posted: 3/3/2016 6:16:28 PM EDT
[#38]
They changed the gun policy in Georgia. Guns are now allowed again
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/4/2016 11:15:26 PM EDT
[#39]
GM is leaving it up to lodges here. I am grateful to some extent, but will need to make a call before visiting outside our area.
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