Hey guys- I posted in the newsletter that I would create a thread for discussion here and then forgot to do it, so here it is! Interested in getting everyone's thoughts.





Overview
As you can tell from the name, the pictures and the interview with John above, the IGRS is an integrated vertical grip and rail system designed to provide your AR with a more comfortable hold and at the same time include a quad rail for all your accessories. Before a bunch of you start yelling out "the Simpson's did it!", lets discuss why this system is not like any other.

First Impressions
When I first heard about the IGRS, I thought to myself- great another rail! Just what we needed! However, because it was designed around a magazine well grip which happens to be how I prefer to shoot, I decided to keep an open mind and give it a shot. Once the IGRS arrived and I opened the box, I had two thoughs: wow this thing is big, and this thing is UGLY! The magwell funnel is so big it looks like you could insert your .50 BMG magazines!

Components
The system is made mostly of aluminum, and consists of three major components: the upper rail, the front lower rail, and the grip/magwell funnel assembly. The upper rail is the "base" of the system, and is designed to attach to a standard M4 and fit over the front sight base. It is secured by the delta ring in the back, and the front is tightened against the handguard cap by two screws inside the upper rail. With this in place, the grip component attaches via two captive "take down" pins just like your lower and upper receiver. The front pin provides a pivot point, and the rear one locks the grip in the normal position. The smaller lower rail assembly fits in front of the grip assembly and is locked in place by that front pivot pin.

Installation is very straightforward, and can be accomplished in a matter of minutes with no permanent modifications to your rifle (except the front sling swivel needs to be removed if you have one). All it takes is an allen wrench to tighten the two tensioning screws. Once installed, everything fits together very well, matches up with the lower perfectly and locks solidly in place.

Handling
The real surprise with this system comes when you pick up your rifle for the first time after installing it. It is not nearly as heavy as it looks (most of the weight is rearward), and it is nothing short of the most comfortable and most natural feeling rifle I have ever held. A traditional magazine hold puts your hands too close together, and with very little to hold on to. Putting a traditional vertical grip near the magwell is better, but again not very comfortable. If you're coming from the more current trend to have your support hand way forward either with and index finger forward grip or using one of the popular AFG grips, IMHO that works great for fast action sports, but supporting a rifle that far from your body tires you out quickly.

At the risk of going against the teachings of people significantly more experienced than I, the best way for me to describe what I personally feel is the best way to shoot an AR is as follows: get in an upright standing (dare I say bladed) position, and put your arms up in front of you like you're about to fight someone. Your elbows will be close to your body, your hands slightly curled and in front of your face to defend your most important body parts. Needless to say this is a starting position for just about any type of fighting, and is also the defensive position your body goes into instinctively if you were startled. Now, in this position, you could put an IGRS-equipped rifle into your hands without changing a thing.

You can still use your index finger to "point" naturally, your support hand thumb has a perfect place to rest, and all the other fingers have a comfortable and wide grip to grab on to. This translates to a natural support hand position where it can support, aim, and apply rearward pressure to keep the rifle right where it needs to be. If that's not enough, after a bunch of dry-fire magazine changes and several trips to the range, I grew to appreciate the large magazine well funnel. Because the vertical grip is so large, the funnel provides a good transition from the grip to the magwell, and gives you a target that's hard to miss.

Customization
Those are the immediate benefits of the bare IGRS; excellent handling, increased comfort, and ergonomically almost perfect. All this is achieved without sacrificing your ability to use a traditional hand-forward position when desired. But wait- there's more! Yet another design goal of the IGRS is to improve laser and light integration. Wiring for these devices can be routed internally, and pressure switches can be mounted at desired locations. I suspect as its popularity grows, there will be better integrated lighting solutions for this rail that streamline the overall system.

Conclusions
So what is my opinion? Besides the fact that it is big, some might call it ugly (I no longer do!), the Grauer IGRS is the absolute single best improvement I have seen for the AR-15 series of rifles. It is not perfect, but I would describe it as "revolutionary" as it is one of the most significant changes to an already highly customized weapons platform. I believe that over time it too will have a line of accessories and customization options that will adapt the IGRS further.

Perhaps the biggest problem with it is that it needs to be handled to really be appreciated. Because of the relatively significant cost, no one wants to be the guinea pig. In order to help overcome this obstacle, we've secured access to a small number of these and are making them available to you via the AR15.com store below. In addition, Grauer is working on a lower cost version of the grip that will attach to existing rail systems, and we're working to bring that to you in 2011.

WEB SITE | VIDEO | BROCHURE

It's definitely interesting to say the least.

I've found that I use different grip styles depending on the situation. For example, it would be kinda hard and rather uncomfortable to shoot out of a vehicle window using a Magpul AFG.
I do agree that a magwell hold is much more comfortable over longer periods of time however it doesn't minimize muzzle sway as much as a more forward grip does.

I'm interested to see how the community responds to this new product. It looks like a high quality and well designed piece of kit.

You're kidding right? How is the addition of something that not only covers up the magazine well but also promotes placing the support hand at the pivot point of the rifle be considered "an improvement"?

All for the bargain price of $429 no less.

< - Deleted by Moderator. This is not GD. - L >

No, thank you.

YUCK!!!
No way in hell is that going anywhere near any of my guns..

I am sorry but I do not get the point of this contraption.
I guess reason for that must be because I am not high speed or Tier 1 and never will take any of my rifles into battle.

As somebody else noted I can always move my grip closer to the mag well and achieve something that will do the trick.

One other thing to keep in mind is the cost involved in finding out if this is the right tool / addition to a rifle. Once you purchased this IGRS and do not like it you will either be stuck with it or try to sell.

I think if this would be a part that can be installed on any Rail system it may be worth giving it a try.

Just my opinion since you ask for feedback

Very ugly but interesting. The "magazine hold" doesn't really work for a southpaw as you have to be more careful about where you put your thumb on your non-firing hand. I've had to see one of these in person. Doesn't look like something I'd be interested in but you never know until you have held one.

Appreciate the feedback, and I certainly understand your points; I had the exact same reservations, as I'm sure most people will. For this reason the company is developing a lower cost unit that will fit existing rails, but as you can imagine getting the ergonomics and fit right considering how many rail options are out there is difficult to say the least.


As a southpaw myself, this system worked out perfectly because it eliminates the issues you mention. The ergonomics are very good. The biggest limitation I found is that as a lefty, my mag-drop consists of my support hand thumb coming back to hit the release; with this it is a bit of a stretch though still doable. I have equipped my rifle with a norgon ambi-catch mag release though, and the problem becomes moot. You really do have to hold it to appreciate it.

I think you went a little overboard with your description. It seems like them giving you one to try out of atleast paying you guys to advertise effected your description. Its blatantly obvious and thats why everyone is reacting this way.

Atleast there is something that is uglier than Lancer's Lower Reciever!

I think it looks awesome for its intended purposes'. Rapid reloading while keeping eyes towards OPFOR, and improved magazine style grip without all the burned glove issues. Also gives a large cavity to re route wires for tac lights etc (the reason I dont use pressure pads) all looks legit, even though it fits into a fat girl type package.

Maybe it would help if you posted a pic of your rifle you put it on ed?

Top pic above is on one of my fat girls!


I said the same thing; in fact I asked them if it was removable, and for this version it is not, but the next one coming (the lower cost, attach to your existing rail version) will have the ability to interchange funnels or put a filler if you choose not to have one. Honestly, I grew to like the funnel despite my initial apprehension. Since the grip extends below the magwell, you want something to guide between the grip and the front of the magwell. That way similar to reloading a handgun it's a matter of bringing your two hands together which is very easy to do without looking. The "ramp" guides the mag into the well without looking at it.