I don't understand why so many people think gold and other precious metals are TEOTWAWKI proof.
They are only valuable because people have assigned a value to them and people are willing to pay for them.  
Seems like if people are struggling to eat and survive, these metals would not be useful.  If I was starving a bit of gold would only be useful to purchase food.  If everyone is starving, then who is the buyer?  And if there is a buyer in that situation, why would they want gold rather than something more useful?

Show a time period where gold has never had value for longer than a generation.  

eta- you don't understand it because you're focusing on "what if's" in a very narrow focus, vs. actual observed evidence of the historical record. 

I think I see your point; gold will have value, even when dollars and pesos do not.  During an event there might not be much of a market for such things, but when things re-stabilize it could be traded again.

You can't eat gold or silver. It times go south and we experience TEOTWAWKI..... water, food, hygiene products, warm clothing, ammo, guns and the like will be the new currency.  Let all the other people horde gold and silver! If they can't offer me something my family needs to eat, or drink, or stay alive with..... well..... it's useless to me.

Just my opinion.

That's pretty much the way I was looking at it also.  Gold won't keep you alive, except if you can use it to trade.  If staying alive is the only thing on everyone's mind, gold is useless.  
I can understand that if things got peaceful again, there has to be some currency, gold is the most likely candidate to be it.

Yup.  Gold has always been valuable because it represents a lot of hard work to amass. Even in very simple societies, where it was only used for decoration it still had value. 
TEOTWAWKI is a fantasy situation that can't be prepared for. In the unlikely event (zombies, comet strike, other events) that something happens that's so crazy that society can never bounce back... only people hardwired to survive will and no amount of preparation can change that. 

Good prepping, like self defense and health insurance, IMHO should be based around the most likely events first, then with those bases covered maybe start covering less likely events. 

Earth quakes, chemical spills, fire are all higher likelihood things to prep for.  After that, local economy collapses and hyperinflation, rioting and looting and "golden horde" (which I've seen the diet version of post hurricane in the south) type things.  That's where gold and the like come in, as a hedge again inflation.  

Yet there's never been any evidence of that happening ever. Even in the worst of times for the last few thousand years, gold has always retained significant value to people. What evidence do you have to support your opinion that an ultra majority of people will suddenly not value gold after thousands of years of valuing it? 

As someone in the industry that mines and produces gold, I have to say that I can't see why it is valued. The stuff is pretty close to useless for non-cosmetic applications, and only ten percent of it is actually used industrially. Creates lots of jobs, though, so I won't complain.

Gold is a long term secure investment.
one oz coins that cost less than $300 a piece in 2004  are worth close to $1300  a piece today.
And its easy to hide and transport

I spent over 10 years lobstering. I don't see why people value lobsters either... But they do

Kind of nailed it. It's almost always been tied to the value of hard work. 
Why is a piece of cloth with some green ink on it worth anything? 

Same kind of deal. Gold has value becuase it's a pain in the ass to acquire. The United States dollar has value because it's a pain in the ass to acquire (or at least you have to trade free time to get them). 

The largest difference is the USD can be easily created for a FRACTION of it's perceived value. Gold you still have to shovel a literal ton(s) of shit to get. 

Perhaps because they are attempting to prepare for the largest event in human history.

Lead, copper and brass will be FAR more valuable in a modern day SHTFEOTHAWKI scenario.

Not sure, not edible, but lead is another story. Projectiles.

Because if or when Our dollar is no longer of value Gold and silver will still be used to purchase things. I also think if the end days are bad enough bullets and guns will also be more valuable than the gold or silver. As I can take your shit and keep mine as well if I deem my needs greater than a long lasting relationship of trade with you. They don't call them precious metals for no reason. In the best of times the hold value and value still increases. As they do in the worst of times as well. Unless mankind goes extinct Precious metal will always be Precious.

https://www.caseyresearch.com/articles/weekend-edition-doug-casey-on-why-gold-is-money


By Doug Casey, founder, Casey Research

It’s an unfortunate historical anomaly that people think about the paper in their wallets as money. The dollar is, technically, a currency. A currency is a government substitute for money. But gold is money.

Now, why do I say that?

Historically, many things have been used as money. Cattle have been used as money in many societies, including Roman society. That’s where we get the word “pecuniary” from: the Latin word for a single head of cattle is pecus. Salt has been used as money, also in ancient Rome, and that’s where the word “salary” comes from; the Latin for salt is sal (or salis). The North American Indians used seashells. Cigarettes were used during WWII. So, money is simply a medium of exchange and a store of value.

By that definition, almost anything could be used as money, but obviously, some things work better than others; it’s hard to exchange things people don’t want, and some things don’t store value well. Over thousands of years, the precious metals have emerged as the best form of money. Gold and silver both, though primarily gold.

There’s nothing magical about gold. It’s just uniquely well suited among the 98 naturally occurring elements for use as money…in the same way aluminum is good for airplanes or uranium is good for nuclear power.

There are very good reasons for this, and they are not new reasons. Aristotle defined five reasons why gold is money in the 4th century BCE (which may only have been the first time it was put down on paper). Those five reasons are as valid today as they were then.

When I give a speech, I often offer a prize to the audience member who can tell me the five classical reasons gold is the best money. Quickly now—what are they? Can’t recall them? Read on, and this time, burn them into your memory.

Money

If you can’t define a word precisely, clearly, and quickly, that’s proof you don’t understand what you’re talking about as well as you might. The proper definition of money is as something that functions as a store of value and a medium of exchange.

Government fiat currencies can, and currently do, function as money. But they are far from ideal. What, then, are the characteristics of a good money? Aristotle listed them in the 4th century BCE. A good money must be all of the following:

• Durable: A good money shouldn’t fall apart in your pocket nor evaporate when you aren’t looking. It should be indestructible. This is why we don’t use fruit for money. It can rot, be eaten by insects, and so on. It doesn’t last.

• Divisible: A good money needs to be convertible into larger and smaller pieces without losing its value, to fit a transaction of any size. This is why we don’t use things like porcelain for money—half a Ming vase isn’t worth much.

• Consistent: A good money is something that always looks the same, so that it’s easy to recognize, each piece identical to the next. This is why we don’t use things like oil paintings for money; each painting, even by the same artist, of the same size and composed of the same materials is unique. It’s also why we don’t use real estate as money. One piece is always different from another piece.

• Convenient: A good money packs a lot of value into a small package and is highly portable. This is why we don’t use water for money, as essential as it is—just imagine how much you’d have to deliver to pay for a new house, not to mention all the problems you’d have with the escrow. It’s also why we don’t use other metals like lead, or even copper. The coins would have to be too huge to handle easily to be of sufficient value.

• Intrinsically valuable: A good money is something many people want or can use. This is critical to money functioning as a means of exchange; even if I’m not a jeweler, I know that someone, somewhere wants gold and will take it in exchange for something else of value to me. This is why we don’t—or shouldn’t—use things like scraps of paper for money, no matter how impressive the inscriptions upon them might be.

Actually, there’s a sixth reason Aristotle should have mentioned, but it wasn’t relevant in his age, because nobody would have thought of it…it can’t be created out of thin air.

Not even the kings and emperors who clipped and diluted coins would have dared imagine that they could get away with trying to use something essentially worthless as money.

These are the reasons why gold is the best money. It’s not a gold bug religion, nor a barbaric superstition. It’s simply common sense. Gold is particularly good for use as money, just as aluminum is particularly good for making aircraft, steel is good for the structures of buildings, uranium is good for fueling nuclear power plants, and paper is good for making books. Not money. If you try to make airplanes out of lead, or money out of paper, you’re in for a crash.

That gold is money is simply the result of the market process, seeking optimum means of storing value and making exchanges.

Yup
5000 yrs of percieved value by humanity is a clear winner.

Also has an increased value in times of extreme duress... also black markets form quickly and they always accept gold or silver...  some somewhere always has food... plus easier to lug around gold or silver than 500lbs of food or seed

US has defaulted after revolutionary war... after civil war... in 1931 amd in 1971... why do ppl believe it'll "nvere happen here"??? It already has more than once....

Read "The Road" by Cormac MacCarthy.  He has a very low opinion of gold as a prep.

So what? He's a writer that never did much more than write and get divorces. Hardly an SME on the subject of what good preps are. 

Meanwhile, there's as mentioned, 5000 years or more supporting it's use as a prep. 

Just saying.....

In a true TEOTWAWEKI gold will not feed you, in the recovery following it it would likely make you rich.

Clinging to the old pre-industrial days. Petroleum and uranium will be the new silver and gold.

With them, you can rebuild the world as it was and power it. If you can do that, you can control the food and the means of production. And if you can do that post-TEOTWAKI, you can simply take the gold and silver from the hoarders trying to barter with it as if the world post-1800 never happened.

Hungry? Gold or eggs?
Defenseless? Gold or bullets?
Hmmmmmmm?

Which, as I mentioned before... is there even an example of a "TEOTWAWKI" event? Let alone one lasting more than a generation? 

The only examples that come to mind are fiction books like you mention, and as an unsupported conjecture, about not being able to eat it, like you also mention. 
But where in the historical record has it ever happened? 

Yet, also like you've mentioned, during recovery times, gold is what anchors trade and economics. 

Out of eggs and bullets, how are you going to get them? 

I always see people reference "the Road" when they talk about preps... it's also probably the worst scenario to base any sort of prep on. If there is an extinction level event, which has been shown to happen in the past for humanity and global human population plummeted to about 50,000 total....then all your preps are basically useless. Unless someone has 50-100 years of food and supplies stored up, you're going to run out of everything (in the book the planet is barren so you can't grow shit), if you happen to be in the 0.001% of humanity that actually survives, it won't matter. Also, since if you do survive and reproduce, your progeny will probably be top of the totem pole and have access to gold etc once/if things start back up, you have your gold.

But for the 99.99995% of collapse, fiat default scenarios that have a high probability to occur and humans continue onward, then ya, you should have precious metals....but also guns, food and ammo. Since we're not 5 year olds, and can actually buy and store more than one thing....guns and gold are not mutually exclusive which is for some reason how many people pose the question.

You don't think Fiat money will collapse? then don't buy gold or silver, simple as that

Preppers who collect gold, silver and precious metals and gems are those who have hope that the societal collapse will be short and their shit will be worth something when it's over.  

I have faith that if the SGTF and society collapses, I'll be dead in a ditch long before any of that is worth anything.

Pretty much all this. 


The ONLY time gold will every become useless, is if things revert back to a societal complexity of hunting and gathering, where there can not be a surplus of goods and food. As soon as the ability to create a goods surplus is created or adopted, the complexity goes up, and the road to currency is in play. 

eta- in a way, the actual act of stockpiling goods by preppers (surplus goods) ensures continued worth of gold.  The more preppers stockpile, the stronger the value of gold becomes. 

Had someone tell me once that if the world went to hell he'd buy a milk cow.  Many would be willing to trade for milk.  I asked him if he still had a mortgage.  He did so I asked him if the bank would take milk as his mortgage payment.  In a more realistic scenario banks would still exist in some form or fashion (just like the depression) and you'd still have a mortgage.  If you had gold or silver then you could at least trade it for whatever the currency of the moment is and pay your mortgage.

I'm of the belief that you should not have more than 10-15% in gold or silver as insurance.  If the US dollar collapses (the world's currency) that 10-15% you have would increase in value so much that it would most likely make up for the 85-90% you lost.

If the "world went to hell" who is going to make you pay your mortgage? When cash is useless the banks are as well. Who is working the window at the drive-through and what are they being paid?

My opinion is this.  As mentioned in my post, the most likely scenario is something like the great depression.  Even then the unemployment rate was about 25%.  Banks still existed and they still repossessed homes and farms.  Thus, having an "insurance" currency like gold and silver would be wise.  Now anything beyond that...well...that's all speculation as to what will work and what won't.  At that point ability will win out.  What ability?  Again, my opinions on this are pure speculation.

Exactly if the world is going to hell id be hunting the bankers and their stockpiles who we kidding?
And milk cow? Why theyre hard to up keap..get goats and chickens

Gold increased 75% in dollar terms during the great depression and with deflation and drop in prices purchasing power of gold went up more than that...

I can understand your point. Up until a 150 years ago give or take. Most people did not have alot of gold or money anyways. That bartered. If they were hungry they fished, hunted or grew crops.  Really did not need money they bartered with what they had for what they needed.

In a environment where everything collapses what will you be thinking of. Especially in a society of convenient stores and fast food drive throughs like ours. Of coarse after all the looting of TVs, and other worthless crap has been stolen. What do you think will be on everyones mind. That did not prep for such an event.

Once their stomachs start growling and they experience thirst like they never knew existed.  I can promise you it most certainly will not be gold or silver.

Once the lucky ones acquire food and a water source. How likely do you think they will be to share it much less trade it for metals that at that point in time means nothing to them.

Value will be based upon what do you have to offer that will increase my chances of survival. That being said I know if I want to keep what I have I can't do it alone. I'll need help. So again what do you have to offer to increase my odds of survival. If I let you join our group.

Reloading skills, medical, gardening, electrical, tactical with weapons and supplies you get my point.

In a total collapse of society it will go back to a barter system. Gold and silver will be very low on the barter pole.
Food, water, weapons and everything else after that. I'd go as far as say weapons might come first.

Because in our society if it were to ever reach a point of collapse like your describing. With the many thousands of people that will be looking for food and water. If they find out someone has it you will need an Army to defend it.

People will act according to what ever environment they are in at the time. I don't care who or what they were before. They will change to that environment or die.

The nices people once that start to starve will kill you to take what you have or they will die. The will to survive is extremely strong.

I've seen this happen on a small scale. People turn into animals once they become hungry and wild beast once they become thirsty. By the way thirst is 10 time worst than hunger.

Who ever controls the food. Controls the people.  Offer a starving man food or 20 pounds of gold and give him a choice.

In a society like described above offer them a means to grow food or a ton of gold.

You can't eat or drink gold

Long story short gold and silver is nothing more than insurance against financial collapse not collapse of society

Agreed.  You also have to consider that during the gread depression the US Dollar was not considered the "world currency" like it is today.  Just look at the increase in gold value during the last shakeup of the 2000's.  A financial calamity would have a much more dramatic effect today on the price of gold and silver.

Because you can only horde so much ammo, water, tp, food, etc. SOME people have it because other people do without knowing why. I don't have it for the end of the world. I have it as store of value for the inevitable currency crisis. We've had four of them in our countries history. EVERY country/civilization in the history of the world that tried to create a national currency has failed. ALWAYS. They go into debt and try to inflate their way out. Devaluing their "dollar" and erasing your savings you worked for. It's a store of value for your labor.

The world is swimming in a world of debt. Not to mention every dollar is loaned into existence by the central banking cartels.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/world/lqp/liquidity_pyramid.html

This kind of sums it up for me.  

As long as you have enough beans, band aids, and bullets to get through the start, markets will pop up rather quickly.

Gold and silver, well, they're more durable than tulip bulbs.

To buy in to the new currency.

that's some mighty fine rearview mirror data mining.

what if you purchased in 2012 when everyone in GD was saying "buy gold"?  
how is gold a "long term secure investment" when you are down 35%?

ar-jedi

How is a $1000 increase in value down 35%? Wouldn't it have to be under 300 bucks to be down? Or are you picking an arbitrary point between those two years to attempt to do what you're saying he's doing?

Let's say someone works for 40 years and saves their .gov printed currency.

Assume one day the printed currency fails because they made too much.  The value contained in that life savings disappears.  It's gone.  Forever.  Suicide is a tempting thought, especially for older people.

If that person instead converted the paper to gold, and kept that instead, the currency would still fail, but the gold would retain it's original value.  Life savings intact.  

Since nobody knows when and where that will happen next, doing this with 10% of their assets would be enough to cover all their bases.

If all is well, the gold retains its value.  If not, it becomes even more valuable and can be used as collateral for business and personal loans, capital to buy discounted assets, and as a more valuable form of money for trade.  

Society is too complex and dependent on farmers to let them have any say with their food.  Even if the 1 person out of 100 who makes the food in this country is forced to trade it, the transactions might be rationed.  

If someone has a bit of gold or silver, maybe the farmer tells them to head around to the back door.

Well, since I'm a gold miner now, I can tell you first hand why gold is worth hording.


It takes a fuck ton of work to produce.

So it does a  good job of representing hard work, and as has been shown through history, it's nice to be able to trade a representation of work for goods and services instead of doing the work yourself a lot of the time.

I've always maintained that the best way to insulate yourself from disaster is to quit smoking, moderate your drinking, save 15% of what you make and cook nutritious meals from a well stocked pantry.

Training with weapons and stockpiling seeds is not really that useful.

Coffee and .22 ammo is where it's at.

I would agree with that.

With the caveat that weapons training is still important, but only as a more general part of day to day self defense training, not as SHTFantasy training.