There was a bunch of good stuff in the walking dead megathread in gd.

What locations do you think would be the best? How should they be fortified? How should disposal of the dead undead be handled?

What strategies would you use for sieging another groups compound? What implements would you use to get the job done?

Many castles and defensive positions have always been built on high ground w/ clearing to see out.

Most communities where I live dont have gated communities, so "walls" other than wood fenced or barbed wire would be severally limited.   The good news though is that I believe in planning for where I live, not what is ideal.  

Where I am at there is a small hill/plateau 800y to my south.  I would pick a group of houses up there to start a base community.  I would then build a wall with cars, sea crates, etc around the interior of the hill. On the slope/exterior, several layers of barbed wire would entangle the dead, but would do little for the living.   Keeping a low profile will hopefully keep raiders and scavengers from being drawn up there and exploiting the steep hillside. (An 8ft wood fence may work here as well).  

 As far as disposal of the dead, early on there would  be many. Work smarter, not harder.  

Dig a pit w steep sides, around 10' wide, 10' deep.  Draw them to the pit with sound, funnel them to choke points to get them to enter from certain points.  Once it is filled, cap em or burn em (burn is a particular hazard.  Fire spreads out of control fast) to "sanitize" the pit.  

Keeping living invaders would be a chore but not impossible. As mentioned, the area on the slope would be the weak point.  A hidden sniper watching this could manage this easily though.  Snares, punji and other traps could also keep hidden spots from being trampled through.

A large scale siege, on the hand, would be very difficult to stop w/o help.  And the living, although low in number, would be a bigger threat than the dead.  In the end, a secured crew-serviced weapon and well hidden snipers would utilize strength in small numbers.  A few 'key' people taken out from hidden sniper fire can discourage raiders from raiding very fast.  

And that is how I turn a frown upside-down.

There are modern examples like the Israeli West Bank Barrier and Baghdad Security Walls.

I wonder if there are any good documentaries on their construction?

I have read that the Israelis are using vehicle ditches to prevent anyone ramming the wall.  Ditches would be dual purpose in zombie apocalypse if deep enough and steep enough to prevent vehicles from driving up and to capture zombies.  The issue with the ditches is that they provide earth protection for attackers, but if not set far enough from the Walls and if you have good shooting platforms from up high on them you can just simply shoot down into the ditches and kill anyone in them trying to fire from those positions.

Simply ditches probably give you the most bang for your buck. You could also spike them steel stakes if you wanted to discourage them being used as fox holes. I'm interested in how the Baghdad Security Walls were constructed and the Israeli West Bank Barrier to see how they got the concrete slabs into place, because if I recall in both instances they did so pretty quickly.  

Israel uses triple fencing with pyramid razor wire stacked, but Zombies would just get tangled up in that and you'd have a mess along with their mass building up weight against the fence.  One thing I thought was smart that the Israel did was put sand down between the layers of security fencing so they could easily detect intrusion.  

Israel knocked out about 200 to 300 meters of clear space running the exterior of the West Bank Barrier with a security road for MIL use that runs all around it for patrols.

What do you guys think about dragon's teeth or other anti-vehicle barriers?  Plus side is you make it difficult for any vehicle to get through, but negative is you provide cover and concealment for infantry to use.

I have seen "field expedient walls" used in Iraq, which are basically giant cloth/plastic rectangles filled with earth. I imagine that they would be damn useful.

Don't the Hesco Bastion Walls have like a wire fencing around them you could use to scale over them?

Probably a good temporary measure though regardless since zombies don't climb things. ALTHOUGH, in the remake of Dawn of the Dead that one legless zombie in the parking ramp was using his arms like a guy using monkey bars to move over that one security guard and drop on him.

Wiki says they're 1.2 meters thick and that it takes 1.5 meters to offer reliable protection from an RPG.  

I can tell you the wiring on the hesco barriers will not be useful hand or foot holds. The dirt compresses the fabric up against the wires where you aren't going to slip a finger, let alone a hand in to use it as one.

There are plenty of F&I war, Rev war, Civil War, etc forts still in existence that would be an awesome place to hole up in the event of a zombie outbreak.  A couple of acres surrounded by thick, 20 ft tall stone walls, commanding the local country side.

The only practical way to take them would be to starve them out or roll down to the local NG armory and pick up a tank.

So, the Hesco barriers would make an excellent quick deploy security wall while you built something more permanent/substantial.  

Add Hesco Barriers to SHTF preps.

Holy cow, you can definitely deploy those quickly.

I've had this thought.

the biggest thing people don't realize is how easy it is to surround a fort and the need to be able to produce and store food inside a fortification.

You need a reliable fresh water source within your walls, which means a well and some kind of pump that can be manually operated if necessary. You also need the ability to either treat or burn waste for sanitation.  Food of course, but also antibiotics and basic personal hygiene supplies to prevent the spread of any disease.  

I think a defensive fortification has to be supported by a system of defensive fortifications.  The larger your system of fortification the larger an enemy has to be to triumph, because if they can be counter attacked from the outside.  So, I would favor a main encampment and then two minimum defensive outposts that could support it with a quick reaction force at all three supporting each other.

Mott and Bailey fort using telephone poles or downed trees plus an anti vehicle ditch in front will probably be 99% effective if you can stash enough area to grow food.

Any place with septic should be ok for waste.. as long as you have incoming water you can just fill the tank and flush.

HESCO barriers are cool, but who is going to hand fill all that area? You would need several strong guys to do 1 section per day.

Jersey barriers turned sideways with the end facing the direction of attack. That will put less surface area and more mass behind that small surface area to stop vehicles, and it provides much less cover/concealment that way.

You also have the advantage of channeling approaching forces so you can fire down the length of the Jersey barriers and scuff 'em up good.

They could still use the barrier for cover from angled gun emplacement. The defenders would need to shoot them straight on.  

I think pits filled with metal rebar spikes anchored in concrete with a downward grade to allow for the rolling into the pits of gas cans would be best. Make them wide enough that vehicles would require bridging to cross them and with the metal spikes infantry couldn't use them for trenches.  If by chance some infantry do make into the pits/moat you roll in barrels of flammable liquid and burn them.

Without air support or artillery the enemy would be pretty screwed. If you have air support or counter artillery batteries you could maybe hold off for a good period of time especially if you had a counter attack capable force at another location.  

Mortars, howitzers, and Katyusha style rockets make several types of fortifications worthless.  No need to breech a barrier if you can lob explosive projectiles over it.  All you need is an artillery spotter nearby to call in spotter rounds and adjust fire, while the crew served weapons are thousands of meters away.  A mortar crew or rocket launcher could roll up in a van, let loose a bunch of rounds, then move out before their location is detected.

Explosives or projectiles wouldn't be the only threat.  Poisons or infectious waste could also be delivered.

Presuming you had ordinance, mortars and cannons made forts pretty much a waste of time, that's why we don't build castles to protect ourselves anymore. Might as well just hand out in a few hardened houses then.

Fact is that a fort is going to keep anyone not using a howitzer at bay. Assuming you can clear a few hundred feet in any direction and make it ram proof you can hold out for a while.

I mentioned mortars because they played an important role in an episode of Jericho, where the neighboring town of Newburg was manufacturing mortars instead of windmills as they had promised their neighbors.  They used the promise of windmills to find out what each town had for trade, then threaten to mortar the town until their demands were met.  

Regarding old naval forts or other historic reinforced structures, I imagine any plumbing or drainage would've fallen into disrepair over the years, and some areas could pose serious health problems if stayed in for long periods of time.

Plumbers could get things up and running. Planning would need to be done to prevent back flow though.

To truly fortify prior to SHTF would be cost prohibited for the normal Joe, other then doing what they can with their own place. Once SHTF the ability to do so would be stifled. I figure that I'd start small. I'd fortify my place first. My house has a stone and mortar exterior. The biggest weakness is the floor to ceiling windows and the doors. I'd frame them in and then pour in quickcrete with rebar. I'd do this to all first floor windows, doors too. Cat walks and ladders on the roof in different locations.  I've got several large trees on my property. I'd drop them in locations where they'd make barriers against vehicles getting a fast approach to the house. With nothing but time I'd likely begin digging a tunnel in order to use for escape if someone tries to burn me out.

When/if possible I'd make runs to begin bringing in truck tractors hauling conex boxes. Might find something useful inside too.

I guess a bit of scouting should be done beforehand.  I've seen pictures of old facilities where the lower levels are damp or partially flooded, and keeping them dry and pumped out won't be an easy task.  Unhealthy living conditions would the last thing you want for a bunch of folks with varying states of health

Well, how difficult is it to rip through standing vinyl siding and a residential wall?  If a zombie was full blown determined to rip through at the cost of even severely damaging themselves how hard would it be? I've never actually tried to rip through a house wall on my own, but I'm guessing it could be done provided you're dealing with just standard wood walls.

Population density of my area untenable defensive position of my own home would necessitate evacuation at some point.  Problem is that early on in an outbreak government will attempt to control the travel of people to prevent spread.  If you arrive at a position you seek to fortify you'd have to contend with the locals and anyone else who had a the same idea.  Increasingly, in my State, there are very few areas that are truly wild.  We have some State Parks that are decent size, but you'd have to count on those being infested with others looking to seek shelter from the populated areas.

I guess it depends on the type of zombie.  The Walking Dead type is uncoordinated and decomposed too much to cause any major damage.  In other films they somehow manage to have super strength.  The worst case is a horde, regardless of speed, strength, or coordination.  A big enough group could create enough force to push in a wooden wall or barricaded openings.

In that case, finding a concrete structure......like a packing plant, etc...would be a good option.  

Might suck to "clear it out" but concrete is likely to weather well, it's not flammable, it stops bullets pretty OK, and it's harder to penetrate than wood or steel structures.  Doors are usually heavier, and the door frame will take more abuse before it fails.

Plants are usually several levels, and they don't necessarily stick out that much.  

They also usually have large parking lots and fences.  These things are good at creating lines of sight that make approaches difficult (rather than an obscured area with lots of places to hide).

They are also large.

A prison or military bunker would also work very well, but those might be more difficult to take over.

Classic style zombies would break into a house within a few hours, tops, unless it was a stone or concrete structure. Vinyl siding would last minutes, hardiboard or equivalent might last some time. But once that outer layer is breached your looking at plywood/osb or 1x sheathing. Evem TWD zombies are going to pull through that if they know you are inside. Forget the doors/windows, those would take minutes if not covered and reinforced.

Back in the day, these forts could be secured with a couple dozen men.

With modern tech, a single family could hold off a much larger force (barring the use of heavier weapons).

They could also keep themselves supplied with crops & animals kept inside the forts walls.

A fort would be awesome, but as mentioned above, sanitation would be an issue. I think I have it figured out. I'd build a catapult and use it to hurl my shit buckets at anyone who lays siege.

While not a concern with zombies, Hesco barriers can be breached with a pair of wire cutters and a pocket knife. Cut the wire in a straight line from bottom to top and slit the fabric. Sand/soil will spill out making a nice ramp to run up on foot.

Watched Iraqi bad guys do this in 2004. Was pretty slick.

Does this mean no more Hesco leatherman's?

Hescos are great...  IF you can keep people off them from the outside and IF you have 24 hr security and IF you dont have someone on the outside that knows breaching and IF you have enough money for the cost of them...

Speaking of, anyone know where to get some?  I have a problem with deer eating my marigolds/tulips.

I like my odds some.... I am on the top floor of my Apt building(3rd) and the exterior is all brick and the doors to the apt's are heavy duty steel doors and steel frames. The main door to enter the building is also locked and can only be opened either by key or if a resident will buzz you in........ If all others flee the building in an incident, I can fortify the entire upper 3rd floor to cover front and back.

You need to sleep sometime. Groups are required.

If he's a light sleeper itsdoable. Not preferable but doable. A few buddies and it would up his chances.

If we are talking human threats on a regular bases then no. One guy or a small fire team could ambush  noproblem.

If I had 8 hours to drive i have a small cabin up north thats surrounded by rivers and 2 lakes with juat a small spit of land. With the sound of the river id be to paranoid to ever sleep though. Give me a squad of able bodied adults to patrol and stand watch and id be set.

The cabin is on a rocky hill surrounded by really dense brush. Some barb wire and an op at the portage would be good.

There are a lot of old brick mills around here. 3-4 storys with a tower on top. Some of them are condemned and surrounded by chainlinked fence. Give me a day and I could reinforce any week spots.

I absolutly trust my wife and 2 friends to watch my back. My 2 friends wifes have shot  and are competent and would quickly learn. My bil is a former STA Marine, im an 03 and one of my good friends is as well. Between us and training my other buddy and wife's we would be ok till we picked up a few more solid folks