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Posted: 12/21/2013 1:54:24 AM EDT
[#1]
EMP's are ridiculous fear mongering tools used in story telling against people who are not thinking critically about the ramifications of current EMP technology, or natural sources.
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Posted: 12/21/2013 2:32:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: My issue with 'Zombies' is that it doesn't 'prepare you for anything' like I once believed. It prepares you for fucking zombies. |
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Posted: 12/21/2013 2:43:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
EMP's are ridiculous fear mongering tools used in story telling against people who are not thinking critically about the ramifications of current EMP technology, or natural sources. Care to back that up with anything? I live in MN, and ironically after years of higher whitetail limits, the herd is decimated and the limit is 1 per in nearly every zone. Having to feed ourselves over the winter in MN would destroy our wildlife population. If you wanted to prepare for the worst situation, you would choose....? EMP's are rediculous, said the guy in the Zombie section.... |
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Posted: 12/21/2013 3:01:21 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Care to back that up with anything? I live in MN, and ironically after years of higher whitetail limits, the herd is decimated and the limit is 1 per in nearly every zone. Having to feed ourselves over the winter in MN would destroy our wildlife population. If you wanted to prepare for the worst situation, you would choose....? EMP's are rediculous, said the guy in the Zombie section.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: EMP's are ridiculous fear mongering tools used in story telling against people who are not thinking critically about the ramifications of current EMP technology, or natural sources. Care to back that up with anything? I live in MN, and ironically after years of higher whitetail limits, the herd is decimated and the limit is 1 per in nearly every zone. Having to feed ourselves over the winter in MN would destroy our wildlife population. If you wanted to prepare for the worst situation, you would choose....? EMP's are rediculous, said the guy in the Zombie section.... See ya. |
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Posted: 12/21/2013 6:21:02 PM EDT
[#5]
It's useful to think about a lot of scenarios. I just reread Lucifer's Hammer, for instance.
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Posted: 12/21/2013 7:21:34 PM EDT
[#6]
cavscout,
i dont think anyone is literally preparing for a zomibe outbreak OR using the idea of a zombie outbreak to prepare for anything. the whole zombie idea is just for entertainment. it does relate a little to a mass natural disaster but only in the sense of well after a disaster. i myself had a tornado take out my neighborhood once and another storm in another part of the country take out our power. both times we lost everything for about a week. granted resources were available at a drive a few miles away. but that gives you a sense of what it takes to actually sustain yourself. you quickly realize the things you need vs the things you like. no zombie entertainment will prepare you for that. but if you WERE literally trying to prepare for a zombie outbreak, i think you would be better prepared for a natural disaster than if you did no preparation at all. but the real truth is we (our whole country) will most likely never see any kind of EMP or other attack on our country to a level where you would need to be prepared like the show doomsday preppers (at least not in our lifetime). will there be other katrinas? yes, undoubtedly. will there be tornadoes that destroy whole towns? of course. will preparing for an EMP prepare you for that? i dont think so. at least not any more than preparing for zombies. and as we all know (or at least we all should), the only seriousness about preparing for zombies is that its code to just be prepared for whatever disaster could come your way. |
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Posted: 12/21/2013 7:36:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: cavscout, i dont think anyone is literally preparing for a zomibe outbreak OR using the idea of a zombie outbreak to prepare for anything. the whole zombie idea is just for entertainment. Speak for yourself. The zombie apocalypse is inevitable. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 3:47:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Not sure if troll or actually serious, but that guy might actually be preparing for zombies... though I made clear I didn't think [most] were really preparing for the living dead.
Planning specifically for an EMP would help you the most for a week or two without power, if that's your main concern. Zombies is a fantasy in the way that it leaves resources available, no competition, vehicles are available, etc. It's not the Worst Case, it's the one of the BEST. If your prepare zombie-style and another storm hits, having a tree land on your car might set you back in a way you never expected. There are BETTER things than zombies is all I'm saying. It doesn't need to be EMP; and Doomsday Preppers is also mainly for entertainment value, just like the zombie genre. Honestly, I think this forum section would do 10x better if it was disaster/SHTF oriented instead of 'Zombie Central.' Who's going to talk about storing some 5.56 up at their summer cabin when it leads to an argument about 22LR as the ultimate zombie round and necrobiology? |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 3:50:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speak for yourself. The zombie apocalypse is inevitable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
cavscout, i dont think anyone is literally preparing for a zomibe outbreak OR using the idea of a zombie outbreak to prepare for anything. the whole zombie idea is just for entertainment. Speak for yourself. The zombie apocalypse is inevitable. 
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Posted: 12/22/2013 3:58:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if troll or actually serious, but that guy might actually be preparing for zombies... though I made clear I didn't think [most] were really preparing for the living dead. Ive always assumed the zombie reference is a caricature for levity, of true subliminal intentions. Planning specifically for an EMP would help you the most for a week or two without power, if that's your main concern. most realistic threats to life, and lifestyle can be overcome with a measly 6 months worth of preparation. Zombies is a fantasy in the way that it leaves resources available, no competition, vehicles are available, etc. It's not the Worst Case, it's the one of the BEST. Well, it would be nice if there was a way to maintain order still. but just look at how bird flu / sars / etc gets blown out of proportion and people freak out. It would be harder to deal with all the other assholes that aren't kept "zombiefied" by reality TV then it would be the "living dead" If your prepare zombie-style and another storm hits, having a tree land on your car might set you back in a way you never expected. There are BETTER things than zombies is all I'm saying. It doesn't need to be EMP; and Doomsday Preppers is also mainly for entertainment value, just like the zombie genre. Only the ones who rely completely on a vehicle to survive. Unless you live in a flood zone or volcanic area and those are your worries, staying home should be the primary plan. Honestly, I think this forum section would do 10x better if it was disaster/SHTF oriented instead of 'Zombie Central.' Who's going to talk about storing some 5.56 up at their summer cabin when it leads to an argument about 22LR as the ultimate zombie round and necrobiology? But, it's all in good fun. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 8:14:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for the great input teeli, and I liked your use of the colors. Christmas even
Only things I can think of, preparing with an EMP in mind includes full defensive measures. People would definitely freak out, and later be extremely dangerous. Full battle rattle, etc. A consideration I always looked at with Zombies; a man with a family (and his barely fired HD 38spl) is very dangerous early on. Then later on, you may need to worry about malicious groups. With Zombies, those were important considerations; but with EMP, those were likely to be common situations. That means you need to be that much more equipped and cautious. On staying home... that's my plan, but even then the situation dictates. Also, everyone has their own long list of considerations. In one of the EMP books I referenced, the falling planes from the EMP did start some forest and city fires, and evacuations were common. Don't forget how planes are always lined up for approach at every major airport. A regular storm that knocks out power can also start fires. Disclaimer: EMP isn't an end all, but reading only two (good) books I found TONS of stuff I had never considered. Then seeing what I missed, even being balls deep into zombies (a couple years on ZSDW for starters, which covered all things zombie and more), I wasn't able to even consider thinking 'Zombies' again. EMP also has the same effects of a strong solar flare, so it's a double whammy! Try reading Lights Out! It's a good, easy read even if there's nothing you can take from it (probably impossible). Then read One Second After. A much harder hitting book with legit numbers and facts, along with a lot of very obvious (but never considered in zombies) issues. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 8:16:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EMP's are ridiculous fear mongering tools used in story telling against people who are not thinking critically about the ramifications of current EMP technology, or natural sources. This. For all the research this the author of One Second After claimed to do, the book was laughably unrealistic with respect to what an EMP can and can't do.
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Posted: 12/22/2013 8:19:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Care to back that up with anything? I live in MN, and ironically after years of higher whitetail limits, the herd is decimated and the limit is 1 per in nearly every zone. Having to feed ourselves over the winter in MN would destroy our wildlife population. If you wanted to prepare for the worst situation, you would choose....? EMP's are rediculous, said the guy in the Zombie section.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: EMP's are ridiculous fear mongering tools used in story telling against people who are not thinking critically about the ramifications of current EMP technology, or natural sources. Care to back that up with anything? I live in MN, and ironically after years of higher whitetail limits, the herd is decimated and the limit is 1 per in nearly every zone. Having to feed ourselves over the winter in MN would destroy our wildlife population. If you wanted to prepare for the worst situation, you would choose....? EMP's are rediculous, said the guy in the Zombie section.... For the real effects in cars, see pages 115-116 in this study: http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf Use the page numbers in the document itself, not the ones in your PDF reader.
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:05:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, if you think this study holds water, maybe you should note it says,
"The consequences of an EMP event should be prepared for and protected agaisnt to the extent that is reasonably possible." I've read it before, specifically the section on automobiles. The conclusion gained from it, and other sources, is there are a lot of unknowns with EMP effects on cars. Something of note though; the study tests were done up to 50 Kv/m. Best they could do. The (estimated?) EMP power of the air or surface burst of a nuke is 1 Mv/m. So even at low levels, cars were effected, which would result in crashes, etc. Also, no one seems to know what high levels would currently do, though the Russians have some experience with it. This source: http://williamson-labs.com/480_emp.htm From the same source (and interesting): Russian EMP (Operation K) A Russian high altitude test was conducted on 22 October 1962 (during the Cuban missile crisis), in Operation K, when a 300 kiloton warhead was detonated near Dzhezkazgan at an altitude of 180 miles. Scientists instrumented a 353 mile section of a telephone line in the area to measure the effects of the Electro-Magnetic Pulse. (MAP) The EMP fused all of the 353 mile monitored overhead telephone line with measured currents of over 3000 Amperes. The monitored telephone line was divided into sub-lines of 25 to 50 miles in length, separated by repeaters. Each sub-line was protected by fuses and by gas-filled overvoltage protectors. The EMP caused all of the fuses to blow and all of the overvoltage protectors to fire in all of the sub-lines of the 353 mile telephone line. The EMP from the same test shut down 620 miles of shallow-buried power cables between Astana and Almaty, and started a fire that burned down the Karaganda power plant. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:09:03 PM EDT
[#15]
*sigh*
The only two actors capable of an EMP attack (excluding allies like the UK) are the Russians and Chinese, both of whom know that, in accordance with MAD, we'd retaliate massively, rendering the EMP attack pointless.
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:17:09 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Thoughts? You's a deep mutha fucka. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:20:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Yes, the author of One Second After wanted to make people worried about it, because he thought of it as likely. That has been the intent of many authors and directors over the years.
Like the nuclear attack + fallout movies of the 80's. Doesn't mean the stuff isn't true. So what did the author invent (besides the fictional plot of the novel) or exaggerate? Have you read the book? Even -if- EMP sucked when it came to facts, that doesn't make Zombies any better. Zombie books/authors are turds, more often than not? Original Zombies are totally mythical. Also, Zombies is a loner teen's fantasy for the end of the world, with no adults or rules? Plus lots of shooting, and most of those Zombie focused teens usually have barely any experience with firearms. But Zombies are entertaining, I agree. I've been watching The Walking Dead, but the material won't do anyone any good in any disaster situation... Yet free detailed digital maps with lots of awesome overlays get like 7 replies over a couple months here, but talking about TWD season 4.... get 23 pages. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:27:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
*sigh* The only two actors capable of an EMP attack (excluding allies like the UK) are the Russians and Chinese, both of whom know that, in accordance with MAD, we'd retaliate massively, rendering the EMP attack pointless. I think we'll fight China some time in the next century. No one 'liked' Russia after WW2, and then in the 80's they came very close to launching a full nuclear strike. (Read up on their matrix fail) But MAD might destroy the other country, but they might think they can get away with it. Even if they're destroyed afterwards, we still have to live through an EMP event? Seriously though BushBore, no matter how many times I say that an EMP isn't an end-all, or anything but a thing a lot better than Zombies and not what anyone else needs to choose; you're still stuck on stupid. If you hadn't chose something that can't hold it's own, you could defend it instead of trying to tear other situations apart. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:29:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You's a deep mutha fucka. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thoughts? You's a deep mutha fucka. I doubt you read it... On GD and 45k posts... you're posting to post collect boost posts probably. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:36:39 PM EDT
[#20]
As has been posted many times previously, even the CDC has some info about preparing for Zombies: http://www.cdc.gov/phpr/zombies.htm Of course it's mainly because Zombies are a popular subject matter these days and it's an entertaining way to get folks to START thinking about emergency preparedness. I wouldn't say that a Zombie scenario (and there are many theoretical types of Z-day scenarios, types of Zombies, etc) is totally useless to start thinking about preps, but it does at least get you thinking about SHTF preps in the general sense.
Truth is, there are so many different possible scenarios surrounding any potential "SHTF" event it would be silly to focus too heavily on one. Choking on a bite of nachos, heart attack, house fire, power outage, ice storm, flooding, hurricanes, home invasion, job loss, solar storm, power-grid loss, etc... Zombies are fun and all, but I'd recommend taking FerFAL's approach: http://ferfal.blogspot.com/ for more realistic "SHTF" situation, e.g., health or medical emergency, financial or economic emergency (getting laid off), robbery, weather events, and so on down the line based on likelihood of the event, etc. Of course, I know this is the ZOMBIE Forum, but I, too, got here via Active Topics. 
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Posted: 12/22/2013 7:37:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we'll fight China some time in the next century. No one 'liked' Russia after WW2, and then in the 80's they came very close to launching a full nuclear strike. (Read up on their matrix fail) But MAD might destroy the other country, but they might think they can get away with it. Even if they're destroyed afterwards, we still have to live through an EMP event? Seriously though BushBore, no matter how many times I say that an EMP isn't an end-all, or anything but a thing a lot better than Zombies and not what anyone else needs to choose; you're still stuck on stupid. If you hadn't chose something that can't hold it's own, you could defend it instead of trying to tear other situations apart. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: *sigh* The only two actors capable of an EMP attack (excluding allies like the UK) are the Russians and Chinese, both of whom know that, in accordance with MAD, we'd retaliate massively, rendering the EMP attack pointless. I think we'll fight China some time in the next century. No one 'liked' Russia after WW2, and then in the 80's they came very close to launching a full nuclear strike. (Read up on their matrix fail) But MAD might destroy the other country, but they might think they can get away with it. Even if they're destroyed afterwards, we still have to live through an EMP event? Seriously though BushBore, no matter how many times I say that an EMP isn't an end-all, or anything but a thing a lot better than Zombies and not what anyone else needs to choose; you're still stuck on stupid. If you hadn't chose something that can't hold it's own, you could defend it instead of trying to tear other situations apart. Do you know what MAD stands for? The point of it is that both sides know that they can't "get away with it." Hence "ASSURED destruction." This very simple concept has kept the peace for over 50 years. You're proposing that the Chinese or Russians would find their countries being destroyed and us EMPed as a desirable end state? And I'm stuck on stupid? An EMP attack in this country - at least in the next 10-15 years - is about as likely as a zombie apocalypse. And way less fun to talk about.
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Posted: 12/22/2013 8:21:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt you read it... On GD and 45k posts... you're posting to post collect boost posts probably. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thoughts? You's a deep mutha fucka. I doubt you read it... On GD and 45k posts... you're posting to post collect boost posts probably. 
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Posted: 12/22/2013 8:39:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Do you know what MAD stands for?
Yes, though this isn't the common situation where everybody launches at everybody else. Though naive of me to think that even though we were already EMP'd, found who was to blame after, and launched a straight up attack; that the other country wouldn't launch back at a EMP'd out country. But I live in next to Canada, and near nothing big. I probably would survive the actual blasts, unless they are going to take out most of the Canadian population too. The point of it is that both sides know that they can't "get away with it." Hence "ASSURED destruction." This very simple concept has kept the peace for over 50 years. Ya, thanks, I know what it is. You're proposing that the Chinese or Russians would find their countries being destroyed and us EMPed as a desirable end state? And I'm stuck on stupid? No, I didn't say that whatsoever. Yes, you are stuck on stupid. An EMP attack in this country - at least in the next 10-15 years - is about as likely as a zombie apocalypse. And way less fun to talk about. No, nothing is as unlikely as a Zombie Apoc, except me winning the lottery (and only because I'm not buying any tickets). But if 'No, it could never happen' is your prefered approach to worst case scenarios, you're truly a Zombie fan. If you seek entertainment, then an EMP, solar flare, and all the other boring ones are not for you I guess. You're still Stuck on Stupid. Just attacking one possible scenario vs defending Zombies. |
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Posted: 12/22/2013 11:44:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Whilst you guys are wrapping your house in tinfoil to ward off an EMP, a zombie is going to gnaw your face off. Watch your loved ones. If they look like they are starting to turn, put them down.
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Posted: 12/23/2013 5:51:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you know what MAD stands for? Yes, though this isn't the common situation where everybody launches at everybody else. Though naive of me to think that even though we were already EMP'd, found who was to blame after, and launched a straight up attack; that the other country wouldn't launch back at a EMP'd out country. But I live in next to Canada, and near nothing big. I probably would survive the actual blasts, unless they are going to take out most of the Canadian population too. The point of it is that both sides know that they can't "get away with it." Hence "ASSURED destruction." This very simple concept has kept the peace for over 50 years. Ya, thanks, I know what it is. You're proposing that the Chinese or Russians would find their countries being destroyed and us EMPed as a desirable end state? And I'm stuck on stupid? No, I didn't say that whatsoever. Yes, you are stuck on stupid. An EMP attack in this country - at least in the next 10-15 years - is about as likely as a zombie apocalypse. And way less fun to talk about. No, nothing is as unlikely as a Zombie Apoc, except me winning the lottery (and only because I'm not buying any tickets). But if 'No, it could never happen' is your prefered approach to worst case scenarios, you're truly a Zombie fan. If you seek entertainment, then an EMP, solar flare, and all the other boring ones are not for you I guess. You're still Stuck on Stupid. Just attacking one possible scenario vs defending Zombies. Nice pink text.  It's really helpful to change someone's text to a color that nobody can read.You're still missing the point about MAD. Entirely. So you don't get it. "Launching back" at the country that was initially EMPed is immaterial, though it does raise this question - if they are just going to nuke us anyway, why bother with EMP in the first place? Conventional nuclear strikes are far more effective. Let me try again: Neither China nor Russia would bother with an EMP attack, because they know that we'd launch a full retaliatory response. They're not going to risk the total destruction of their military, infrastructure, and most of their civilian population just to take our out electrical grid and leave our strategic forces totally intact. They know with absolute certainty that we will respond that way, so chances are that if they were to launch a first strike, it would be primarily aimed at reducing our ability to retaliate. It's hilarious that someone who comes trolling into the zombie forum of all places and doesn't understand simple concepts like MAD, is telling me that I'm stuck on stupid. The only thing that I can guess is that you invest heavily in prepping for EMP (or at least fantasizing about it) and you're butthurt that a couple of us have told you that EMP isn't what it's made out to be. I like zombie movies but if you do a search you'll find that I hardly ever post in this forum (in fact this may be the first thread in which I have done so). I don't prep for zombies. Let me ask you this: Why would China or Russia launch an attack that they know will leave our military intact and which they also know will result in us destroying their county? What would be their desired end state? |
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Posted: 12/24/2013 11:15:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Haha, I was originally going to make your text YELLA. If anyone actually wanted to read it, they could just highlight it.
I understand MAD, no matter how many times you say I don't. You say there are only a couple countries that can effect an EMP attack. I disagree. Anything can be bought and we've already seen how countries with barely workable land can be suddenly made rich with money from the successful countries (oil in the mideast). So when North Korea or Iran suddenly have the largest super-unobtainium mines in world, we'd really have to worry. Those are only the countries we hate present day. I personally believe we'll be at war with China again in the next hundred years, but large scale this time. Maybe China + its new states vs The West. Major solar storms have the same effects as an EMP also? I honestly haven't thought too much on why or what countries would launch an EMP attack, it's simply a good guideline. I'm decently invested in preparing for whatever, not EMP specific by any stretch. In fact, I don't have a single EMP/solarstorm safeguard for any electronics, nor the spare parts. In Zombies, you grab an unused car, w/ gas, right off any random street. In an EMP/solar w/e, there aren't any cars to rely on, let alone uncontested ones lying around everywhere. I keep telling you to get off the who/why of an EMP. It's merely the best guideline I've found for preparing for anything. Zombies is one of the worst. Do YOU know of anything better for a guideline than a EMP event or Solar Superstorm? |
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Posted: 12/24/2013 11:20:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha, I was originally going to make your text YELLA. If anyone actually wanted to read it, they could just highlight it. I understand MAD, no matter how many times you say I don't. You say there are only a couple countries that can effect an EMP attack. I disagree. Anything can be bought and we've already seen how countries with barely workable land can be suddenly made rich with money from the successful countries (oil in the mideast). So when North Korea or Iran suddenly have the largest super-unobtainium mines in world, we'd really have to worry. Those are only the countries we hate present day. I personally believe we'll be at war with China again in the next hundred years, but large scale this time. Maybe China + its new states vs The West. Major solar storms have the same effects as an EMP also? I honestly haven't thought too much on why or what countries would launch an EMP attack, it's simply a good guideline. I'm decently invested in preparing for whatever, not EMP specific by any stretch. In fact, I don't have a single EMP/solarstorm safeguard for any electronics, nor the spare parts. In Zombies, you grab an unused car, w/ gas, right off any random street. In an EMP/solar w/e, there aren't any cars to rely on, let alone uncontested ones lying around everywhere. I keep telling you to get off the who/why of an EMP. It's merely the best guideline I've found for preparing for anything. Zombies is one of the worst. Do YOU know of anything better for a guideline than a EMP event or Solar Superstorm? |
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Posted: 12/25/2013 5:37:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Example?
Or are you just boosting posts? I'm starting to realize why this section is called 'Zombie Central' and it isn't because of the content... |
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Posted: 12/26/2013 9:46:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Zombies, you grab an unused car, w/ gas, right off any random street. In an EMP/solar w/e, there aren't any cars to rely on, let alone uncontested ones lying around everywhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Zombies, you grab an unused car, w/ gas, right off any random street. In an EMP/solar w/e, there aren't any cars to rely on, let alone uncontested ones lying around everywhere. Cite the source for this claim? Even with a Nuke EMP cars will still run. You did read the report that posted right? EMP (especially from a solar storm) is more a concern for the Grid and telecommunications lines that either use copper wire or a satellite. Do YOU know of anything better for a guideline than a EMP event or Solar Superstorm? Zombie is a great one. it covers spread of a deadly disease (like 1918 Flu Pandemic), large scale violence (Watts Riots, LA Riots, etc). The concepts of sheltering in place (pandemic, bad weather) and bugging out (flooding, tanker car mishap, wild fire) are covered in Zombie fiction - and both types of plans are needed for various REAL WORLD emergencies. |
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Posted: 12/26/2013 7:15:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha, I was originally going to make your text YELLA. If anyone actually wanted to read it, they could just highlight it. I understand MAD, no matter how many times you say I don't. You say there are only a couple countries that can effect an EMP attack. I disagree. Anything can be bought and we've already seen how countries with barely workable land can be suddenly made rich with money from the successful countries (oil in the mideast). So when North Korea or Iran suddenly have the largest super-unobtainium mines in world, we'd really have to worry. Those are only the countries we hate present day. I personally believe we'll be at war with China again in the next hundred years, but large scale this time. Maybe China + its new states vs The West. Major solar storms have the same effects as an EMP also? I honestly haven't thought too much on why or what countries would launch an EMP attack, it's simply a good guideline. I'm decently invested in preparing for whatever, not EMP specific by any stretch. In fact, I don't have a single EMP/solarstorm safeguard for any electronics, nor the spare parts. In Zombies, you grab an unused car, w/ gas, right off any random street. In an EMP/solar w/e, there aren't any cars to rely on, let alone uncontested ones lying around everywhere. I keep telling you to get off the who/why of an EMP. It's merely the best guideline I've found for preparing for anything. Zombies is one of the worst. Do YOU know of anything better for a guideline than a EMP event or Solar Superstorm? Dude, I posted a study showing that cars will run fine. There aren't that many people who are actually prepping for zombies (as in actual movie type zombies). But zombie type prepping is very versatile. |
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Posted: 12/29/2013 10:27:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Did either of you read my reply to that [non]study that was posted? The EMP levels used in it were very, very weak (limited by equipment).
Zombies doesn't cover pandemic... you would think it would, but zombie fans are trying to prevent bites (if they even go into the zombie specifics and 'necrobiology'). New Issue w/ Zombies: It creates a looter/bandit mindset. They don't usually stock or plan for the long term, because everything can be raided after the 'outbreak.' |
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Posted: 12/30/2013 8:03:20 AM EDT
[#32]
I agree, it allows for people to start thinking about things that didn't seem possible before. When I left college I never thought there would be a LA riot, genocide in Europe again, I never would have considered that an event like Katrina/NOLA could have happened, flash mobs were possible and that the entire East portion of the United States would be without power.
Yet all those things have past. Now we are concerned with Avian or swine flu, disease that can adapt and change faster than we can. The world is different then when I was a kid. All I had to worry about was Nukes, Russians and airplane hijackers. These new issues have no boundaries, can jump state lines and across oceans quickly and without warning. So let people start packing old backpacks with bottle water, can food, matches and N95 masks. Let them get thinking about their next two moves, if and when the SHTF. Its better then doing nothing. Me, my baggage is heaver. I got an old lady I can't live without, and she has three dogs that she likes better then me. So when a zombie walking the waste land, dragging three dog skeletons on a leash, check out my backpack I got some cool stuff
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Posted: 12/30/2013 8:19:15 AM EDT
[#33]
I'll agree with you on one point, it's not inherently bad to never put a limit of what can happen. On the other hand, just grabbing a bad and hitting the road really isn't any type of plan. What will you eat? Or are you sort of stuff in The Walking Dead mindset? Be mobile and scavenge?
I know cities and some areas aren't the place to be in a disaster, but there should be a plan to help you along the way. Besides, you never know if you'll be by yourself, or shuffling along with a group of thousands of refugees. |
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Posted: 1/4/2014 9:14:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me ask you this: Why would China or Russia launch an attack that they know will leave our military intact and which they also know will result in us destroying their county? What would be their desired end state? Russia and China are way too smart, as you pointed out. How about North Korea? Personally I'm preparing for the somali pirates. I think I'm doing well since I'm landlocked and not near somalia, but you never know what could happen. |
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Posted: 1/4/2014 12:51:33 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 1/5/2014 8:07:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Personally when I talk about zombies, I do so to avoid in depth political and international relations discussions.
As of right now, I am technically preparing for possible food shortages caused by a large scale reaction of the fukushima reactors, as well as possible devaluation of the dollar. The latter having possible consequences that range from mild inconvenience to a complete upset of the American, and most likely world economy. Now It would be narcissistic to think that the American economy tanking would cause a world economy failure, but it would put our lenders in a pinch, as well as any countries with securities here. And personally when I think about who owns all our debt, I tend to think more of "Fat Tony, with a baseball bat" More than a dozen nagging calls a day from a collector. This being a very short version of why I: Prepare For Zombies |
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Posted: 1/6/2014 4:46:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Gee...I thought it was generally understood that Zombies are a metaphor that is used for any number of SHTF events.
The authors of Zombie books have spoken of this. 
So it is difficult to see why people are getting their panties in a wad arguing over specifics. Get your shit together and get prepared for almost anything. Prepare for big problems and the little shit will be no problem. |
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Posted: 1/6/2014 4:50:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia and China are way too smart, as you pointed out. How about North Korea? Personally I'm preparing for the somali pirates. I think I'm doing well since I'm landlocked and not near somalia, but you never know what could happen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let me ask you this: Why would China or Russia launch an attack that they know will leave our military intact and which they also know will result in us destroying their county? What would be their desired end state? Russia and China are way too smart, as you pointed out. How about North Korea? Personally I'm preparing for the somali pirates. I think I'm doing well since I'm landlocked and not near somalia, but you never know what could happen. The Norks don't have the capability to get a device of sufficient yield to a sufficient altitude over CONUS. Also, they'd know that it would result in their destruction. Kim wants to keep living like a king. Getting incinerated isn't high on his list of priorities.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 6:32:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if troll or actually serious, but that guy might actually be preparing for zombies... though I made clear I didn't think [most] were really preparing for the living dead. Planning specifically for an EMP would help you the most for a week or two without power, if that's your main concern. Zombies is a fantasy in the way that it leaves resources available, no competition, vehicles are available, etc. It's not the Worst Case, it's the one of the BEST. If your prepare zombie-style and another storm hits, having a tree land on your car might set you back in a way you never expected. There are BETTER things than zombies is all I'm saying. It doesn't need to be EMP; and Doomsday Preppers is also mainly for entertainment value, just like the zombie genre. Honestly, I think this forum section would do 10x better if it was disaster/SHTF oriented instead of 'Zombie Central.' Who's going to talk about storing some 5.56 up at their summer cabin when it leads to an argument about 22LR as the ultimate zombie round and necrobiology? I have to disagree with your take on the depiction of the zombie apocalypse in film relating to realism. Yes there are films like you describe. But they are usually intended as comedy. In the more serious films or the television show The Walking Dead I think they do a good job of mixing in some realism and giving us food for thought. I'll give some examples from Walking dead. Character gets a cut on his arm which gets infected that becomes potentially fatal. Character is shot in the head while returning to camp by an overzealous trigger happy guard. A bad flu runs through their group that would normally be treated easily but without meds causes several deaths. Vehicles shown as inoperable without repair after being left unattended for a long time. Characters experiencing mental breakdowns as well as suicides and attempts. Characters reduced to eating dog food. The more "realistic" films and TV programs show a world where roads are all jammed and supplies are rare. The population didn't die off instantly and just like a hurricane or snowstorm the things people thought the would need are all now missing from store shelves. Any movement is a potentially lethal risk as you have no idea how big a threat is literally around the next corner. And death can come at any moment from something random no matter how well prepared someone might seem. Being fan of the genre as encouraged me to focus on improving my speed and endurance (you can outrun them but they never get tired). Try to improve my shooting as making a head shot on a moving target wouldn't be as easy as it looks. Learn more about basic medical care and keep some more advanced supplies on hand since in a bad enough situation if you get sick or injured help is only coming from those around you and what you can provide to yourself. I wouldn't suggest one actually base their efforts on a zombie scenario but does give you examples of problems to brain storm about. |
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Posted: 1/18/2014 6:49:58 PM EDT
[#40]
"Zombies is a fantasy in the way that it leaves resources available, no competition, vehicles are available, etc. It's not the Worst Case, it's the one of the BEST."
I think you have made a terrminal error here: you have assumed that people are preparing for YOUR version of a "zombie apocalypse", which makes several rank assumptions of occurance and outcome. I'm assuming that such an outbreak would entail loss of essential services and utilities, followed by rioting/civil unrest and then followed (worst cases, defending order) by mass violence as survivors fought over meager supplies left after the breakdown of society. Such a process could be applied to a very large number of scenarios, including EMP, total economical collapse, massive civil unrest etc. And I think what puts lie to your theory is that most "zombie peppers" are acting contrary to your theory. Most have gathered supplies, made plans and are prepared for a relatively wide array of disasters. |
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Posted: 1/26/2014 10:33:13 PM EDT
[#41]
I'll spell it out for you: FSA=Zombies
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Posted: 2/19/2014 11:57:43 PM EDT
[#42]
I think the book "Patriots" by James Wesley Rawles is a more likely scenario of shtf here in our country. Based on stock market crashing and the USD becoming worth nothing (like it isn't already). Its a good read regardless.
But I also agree with the guy above me..... FSA is most definitely equal to "zombie"!!
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Posted: 3/4/2014 10:18:01 PM EDT
[#43]
The point of zombies is no matter what the fall of society is, everyone is gonna be a fuckin prick and would rather kill you than speak to you.
It doesn't prepare you for shit because the world is already that way. Sure maybe we aren't shooting eachother on sight yet, but we do avoid interaction. The flaw is technology and pussies not fuckin zombies. |
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Posted: 3/5/2014 12:29:48 AM EDT
[#44]
A zombie will bite through your skull like a hungry pig. Prepare now, or become a tasty snack later.
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Posted: 4/3/2014 9:48:21 AM EDT
[#45]
I'm back. I read through everything, promise.
I still don't think too much of 'Zombies' any more. Mostly just do to what type of person it attarcts en masse. Teens with machetes, bats, katanas, etc. Sure, there are people that do Zombies from all walks, but with so many teens into it that wouldn't know what to do if their phone stopped working; I'll take my chances with something else. There's actually a thread here right now about nerve gas working on zombies... and that's an example of why I stay away these days. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 2:47:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Not normally a topic poster... Meat and potatoes: The neon green products are an old joke, sure. Old timers tried to kill the trend because it 'undermined the shooting sports/hobbies.' People say The Walking Dead will make people cold to violence. K. My issue with 'Zombies' is that it doesn't 'prepare you for anything' like I once believed. In the Zpoc, the population is suddenly killed off and you get an extended shopping trip in a mall or Walmart. Yet in most of the "anything" situations that people want to prepare for; they will have the entire population to compete with for the remaining resources (food, water, medicine, etc). Families are still together, your neighbors are still alive, children and the elderly need care, and you local authorities may be controlling things (or trying). So I think 'Zombies' fails in the worst way. I highly recommend reading a couple EMP type books, like Lights Out! and One Second After. Polar opposite styles in those books, but both will make you think about problems/concepts never considered. There are illegit ways to easily acquire both for free digitally, your choice there. Do I think an EMP is the most likely course of action? No, but it does a lot better for "anything" than 'Zombies.' Thoughts? I agree 100%. You don't need to back it up with anything but it is a common sense situation. Just say that their was a zombie outbreak. It is likely to not be worldwide on day 1. People will be monitoring the news and watching it get closer and closer to their home. Shipping containers, cruise ships, and international flights will bring it across oceans. People will begin to panic before it reaches their town. All it will take is a handful of people to panic, and the numbers will follow. It will be a battle to be get the first pick of groceries(including water), guns, ammo, and other supplies. Once the shelves are empty, there will be people who don't make it. Some will start forming groups. People will start trying to take what someone else has claimed. It will be ever man for himself. I would say every group, but it would be likely to see fighting and/or killing within communities as well. I have not read any of the books you mentioned, but I know people. I have watched the news and people reactions long enough to know that it will not be good, and worst of all, it will not be predictable. People will scatter & take refuge in all sorts of places. You will have no idea where is safe, and where is not. Your families survival will depend on your ability to not only obtain, but keep supplies and shelter. Everyone will be trying to take it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:14:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Good info. Many of us have heard it to some level, but something that never hurts to type out. Especially for ourselves.
On zombies... people enjoy thinking about feeding less than 20 people of stuff they loot. What isn't as fun to think about is having to get to a grocery store every day, when cars might not be available, and standing in a food line the whole day just trying to feed your family. Then after picking some stuff up at a decent rate, the lines start to get longer with even less food available. It doesn't take a genius to see where that's heading. Most cities are a simple natural disaster away from that already. One is fun to think about, attracting mostly non-survival type teens. The type of events that there aren't TV shows about are the ones that leave its followers to live with at least some fear. Which one is a better motivator? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 10:22:16 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 5/23/2014 10:01:24 PM EDT
[#49]
It's shiz like that... ^
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