This is my video review of irrefutably the best SHTF / Zombie Defense / WROL Rifle money can buy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwMy-rluL10&list=UUnV019YrBYyeT79EM_hhmnA&index=1

Oh so you like the m4 huh? Here is my argument why the m4 is not a good SHTF rifle or even a combat rifle for that matter http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

My page www.facebook.com/johntkiser I have a bushmaster xm15e2s predator with bull fluted free floating barrel and i would not trust it in a SHTF scenario. Too much maintenance required for reliable operation. and when i can drill .75 inches at 100 yards with iron sights and wolf ammo, I dont need a m4 with inferior reliability and knockdown power. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150901095330061&set=a.133375830060.222639.526835060&type=3&theater

If I wanted greater accuracy, i would consult Accuracy Systems INC and match your upgraded AR. In the video is clearly stated with a standard barreled ar15. Also it appears your lack of experience with the mini platform. Many of the mini 14/30 parts are swappable and there are many mini guns around thus making parts plentiful. The fact that this system is self cleaning and high pressure ensures dirt and grime get blown out of the receiver. The mini 30 is piston operated. While your m4 will choke on its own S#^T and fail, the mini will keep plugging away. Besides its made of stainless steel. Also 2.5 inches is with CHEAP STEEL CASED AMMO. I have in fact shot a .75 inch group at 100 yards using only iron sights and I have picture evidence to back up my claim. With better quality ammo I can get even tighter groups. You also gotta understand. if you shoot the same spot exactly 3 times your hole will be 5.56mm mine will always be .311 or .308 due tot he fact I have a bigger bullet. so your smaller groups have some to do with your overall size. Ease of maintenance you are kidding right?

Starter gun? LOL https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.133375830060.222639.526835060&type=3 Umad bro? Why settle for a high point when I have a Stainless HK USP .40?

Either you trollin or just dumb. Besides i said NEW 581+ series so no1 cares about your old outdated POS mini 14 because it has a thin barrel and a .22 cal bullet. Thats like me comparing a m16a4 to a m16a1...


I think you need to check my youtube.com/modernminuteman channel to see how many guns I do own and retract your "starter gun" comment to save your face.

Actually a piston AR doesnt solve it it just helps it.  Yes I believe a Mini 30 (not low pressure POS 14) would be as reliable as an ak47 in adverse conditions. Aks can jam too if they get filled with gunk. My experience with aks and ars is quite robust too since I have owned both of them for years. Ar is for hunting ak is for spraying. The mini 30 action (m1 garand style rotating bolt) has been proven in HARSH battlefield conditions during ww2 vietnam and current day operations over seas. The m4 platform has not according to special forces and experts in the field of combat operations.  

Now, on to the next reason why the mini is better. Zombies and people dont seem to react too poorly when shot with a high velocity .22 caliber bullet. You are gonna be wasting lots of ammo poking holes into attackers. The point of fighting zombies is to remove material from their bodies. a .30 caliber bullet does this better than the .22 caliber bullets do. its a FACT. the m4 is weak and not a good choice on anything over 150 lbs.

Also I hope you arent one of those "Ill use my ar at 500m" guys. because if you do, you are gonna get popped by someone with a mosin nagant using iron sights at that range. The 5.56mm combat effective range is 350 at best.  the .22 cal bullet is just not effective for putting down sizable targets. the .223 / 5.56mm was designed for high rate of fire and low recoil, thats it. and in this aspect the 5.45x39mm is superior in terms of recoil and stopping power compared to the 5.56

If we wanna do long range we can pull my German mauser 98k (not yugo) and how awesome the 7.92x57mm is. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152302510320061&set=a.133375830060.222639.526835060&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.125320995060.214340.526835060&type=3 For my zombie album

This is ahhh jokey joke, EH??? LOL

My collection https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151145148605061&set=a.125320995060.214340.526835060&type=3&theater

Incase you geeches didn't know, there exists people in IL south of chicago. So dont lump me in with all that Yankee bs.

The m1a is just a standard Springfield armory. Nothing special other than what the M1a has to offer. i would chose this rifle as a shtf rifle but I find that for cqb the 7.62x51mm is overkill, heavy and cumbersome. You canto go wrong with a M1a. My friend has two of them one in scout config and the other is just a "loaded" model.

I do not recommend reciever mounts for the m1a. I tried using those kind of mounts and a shell ends up ejecting up and bouncing off the mount back into the breach for a stovepipe. I use the 6 point UTG scout rail for the upper handguard and not had a stovepipe since.

Cue the "Not sure if serious" face.
If you seriously think a Ruger in a Halfass caliber (with little to no availability of quality self defense ammo.) with a piece of flimsy ass stock is better than an AR, you're delusional.

Mini-30

LOLOLOLOL...


I am an AR fanboy all the way (hence being on ARFCOM), but I would choose an AK all day long over a MINI (14 or 30).

You say parts are plentiful, I never see anyone with a Mini...Guess they all are smart enough not to own one.

Nameless_hobo your gun sucks according to special forces. http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

Also in response to parts being plentiful. The great thing about the mini 30 is it is built extremely reliable, unlike the AR series, Mini parts dont need replaced often. Put that in your gas tube and blow it back into your chamber (if it doesnt clog the tube and ruin your gun first) HAHA

75th Ranger Regiment member, SOCOM:

“Even with the dust cover closed and magazine in the well, sand gets all inside; on and around the bolt. It still fires, but after a while the sand works its way all through the gun and jams start.”

Even without those extenuating circumstances, however, there have been problems. A December 2006 survey , conducted on behalf of the Army by CNA Corp., conducted over 2,600 interviews with Soldiers returning from combat duty. The M4 received a number of strong requests from M-16 users, who liked its smaller profile. Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.” The report adds that “Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached [including via official means like rail mounts].” Since “accessories” can include items like night sights, flashlights, etc., their use is not expected to go away any time soon.

US Army Ranger Capt. Nate Self, whose M4 jammed into uselessness during a 2002 firefight after their MH-47 Chinook was shot down in Afghanistan’s Shah-i-kot Mountains, offers another case. He won a Silver Star that day – with another soldier’s gun – and his comments in the Army Times article appear to agree that there is a problem with the current M4 design and specifications.

Even without those extenuating circumstances, however, there have been problems. A December 2006 survey , conducted on behalf of the Army by CNA Corp., conducted over 2,600 interviews with Soldiers returning from combat duty. The M4 received a number of strong requests from M-16 users, who liked its smaller profile. Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.” The report adds that “Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached [including via official means like rail mounts].” Since “accessories” can include items like night sights, flashlights, etc., their use is not expected to go away any time soon.

Long story short your m4 style ar-15 is nothing more than a hunting or paper shooting weapon at best. Not meant for combat conditions with any degree of seriousness.

Dont get me wrong, I own a very beautiful and EXTREMELY accurate Bushmaster xm-15 E2S Predator. But it would be my last Weapon of Choice of my arsenal. Here are my choices for SHTF rifles of the weapons I own. 1 Mini 30, 2 ak-47 3 M1a 4 Remington 597 .22LR w/ archangel stock and 5 My Bushmaster xm15 e2s.


Besides, look how easily I can mow down a stacked gorup of zombies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYjKrg1OiqY&list=UUnV019YrBYyeT79EM_hhmnA  
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh10NrYbFO8&list=UUnV019YrBYyeT79EM_hhmnA

Mini 30 parts are plentiful? I can't even find a spare factory 5 round mag for my mini. I have been able to buy (20) 30rd mags in the last month for my ar's. I think you would have a better chance of finding a new ar vs. mini right now, at least in my neck of the woods.

I have experience (10+ years)with both platforms.The mini 14 is a fragile,tempermental,inaccurate piece of shit that NO military on the planet uses as a frontline weapon because of it's drawbacks.Yes I read Rogue Warrior, but hey,guess what, the SEALs use M4's these days.The Phillipine military did try out the AC556 (select fire Mini 14) back in the late 70's/early 80's and found it too fragile for general issue.
Damn, I forgot to mention the idiotic controls,bad sights,shit magazines and the fact that to get a spare firing pin you need to send your bolt in to Ruger.

Look FZK i understand you are used to using a mini 14. It was probably an old series with a thin barrel. I agree that rifle is a POS but you obviously have no experience with the 581 series mini 30 (the gun I am talking about in this thread.) Also it is very hard to find mini 30 mags because they are all bought up and on gun broker.

When the false sandy hoax blows over and the assault weapons ban legislation gets defeated more mags will appear on the market. It may be too late to get this BEST SHTF gun and mags for it but Im stocked up and dont need anything else.

Also ruger factory magazines work flawlessly and are very high quality. You get what you pay for.

i bought some cheap promags that work just fine now that I had to modify their sorry selves. as you can see in my rapid fire video they work just fine.

Mini 30 firing pins are tough the only reason firing pins break is because people use ammo not specified by the gun.

If you use ammo not specified by the manufacturer its YOUR not THE GUN OR MANUFACTURERS fault for the failure.

Like I said, the sights are reliable and rugged just adjusting them is different with the allen wrench. I use Tech sights instead for the ease of adjustment.

As far as Idiotic controls? Idk what you are talking about they are very simple compared to the ar15 that has a button you push in a sorry attempt to get your bolt closed LMAO.

Stop comparing my gun to the mini 14 .223 I wouldnt use the mini 14 over an ak47

As far as the SEALS using the m4 these days. Take a read to see what the seals have to say about the m4 at http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

Oh fuck this oughtta be good.

OP, suffice to say your premise is flawed...

Flawed Premise? I dont think so. Best shtf rifle = most reliability, best ammo to powder ratio for the target within the specific range of the rifle, sufficient accuracy, low maintenance and durability in even harsh conditions. Far from a flawed premise. The only other gun that comes close to being as good a shtf rifle is the PTR 32 and even ti has its drawbacks (weight, size, delayed roller action etc...)

Riddle me this then - why has military force utilized it, well, ever?

Think the guys at APG have never seen a Ruger catalog?

Because of bids and contracts.

Why do they use the m21 and m14 instead of the ar10?

A: it is more accurate and reliable using the 7.62x51mm round.

Thus we can conclude that the m1 garand style rotating bolt gas piston rifle is more reliable than the m4 platform.

take a look here and see what a mistake it was to use such a weapon.  http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

Also, i think we can both agree our government isnt the smartest in chosing who it puts in charge of defense or how it spends our money.

It seemed like a routine request. Order more M4 carbines for US forces in the FY 2007 supplemental, FY 2008 budget, and FY 2008 supplemental funding bills. It has turned into anything but a routine exercise, however – with serving soldiers, journalists, and Senators casting a very critical eye on the effort and the rifle, and demanding open competition. With requests amounting to $375 million for weapons and $150 million in accessories, they say, the Army’s proposal amounts to an effort to replace the M16 as the USA’s primary battle rifle – using specifications that are around 15 years old, without a competition, and without considering whether better 5.56 mm alternatives might be available off the shelf.

WITHOUT COMPETITION, get it? Why was there no competition allowed? Ill tell you why, companies and government in bed with each other slutting it up without the bonds of marriage.

Mk 11 & M110. Your argument is invalid.

The SF and SOCOM guys I know are pretty happy with their Mk 18s and Mk 12s.

They'd laugh pretty hard if you told them something from Nambe Arms was a superior product.

It doesn't even take Pmags, for crying out loud.

Actually you can get polymer magazines. (Pmags) for the mini 30. Also the mk18 and mk12s use either .223 or 762 nato. thus lowering ammunition capacity and high recoil and a heavier gun for cqb or using the lacking of stopping power of the 5.56 round. thus argument is not invalid. The 7.62x39mm round is perfect for conditions most likely encountered during urban warfare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koW5Q6y_iCc&playnext=1&list=PL93A4D73916D1F5A5&feature=results_video

Oh here we go....

So your best SHTF rifle is a rifle that is finicky taking ammo. Only eats certain types? Sounds like a disaster to me. So shooting some types of ammo can cause a firing pin failure. Yeah, that sounds like a good SHTF rifle to me.

Again, I am an AR fanboy, but I know and have seen even some of the cheapest AK's eat any and every type of ammo you feed it. I even believe some types of AK pattern rifles were made to feed steel cased ammo exclusively, it loves it. Now you come on here and say your Mini-30 is perfect, but only if you feed it certain types of ammo. But if you find some scrounged ammo, old surplus or something it may have a firing pin failure...WoW, Not something I would trust in a SHTF situatuin.

This isnt Fallout, where perfect ammo that works in your rifle is found in bathtubs and super mutants drop it out of their pockets when you kill them.

I ran my Spikes lower, DPMS Upper franken AR through a carbine course last year. Used 500rds Wolf Steel case, 200 rds Lake City brass. No issues. What did I do to my budget rifle to make it feed that ammo no problem? $10 upgraded ejector/extractor from Spikes. I can run any ammo I find for my rifle.

Not to mention mags for AK's and AR's are everywhere, yet I I dont even know if my LGS even carried Mini mags cause no one owns them. Heck Wal-Mart sold AR and AK mags. I would rather run anyone of those type and know I can find mags and ammo that works, VS your flawed argument for the Mini-30.

On top of that plenty of people have come on here and stated obvious problems with Mini-30's and your counter argument is listing those were old models and yours is the newest greatest generation Mini. Well I can find a newest greatest gen AK or AR type rifle that puts your Mini to shame all day long.

So keep posting the same article again and again. Yet I can google numerous reports on Mini failures, but then my browser locks up because the search results are too high to filter.

Actually it isnt finicky taking ammo. if you use the ammo suggested by the manufacturer you will have no problems. As with ANY GUN READ THE FARKING MANUAL FIRST! If you use ammo not specified for your rifle you are only begging for disaster. i cant believe you would even bring that up, it appears you use just any kind of ammo in your gun expecting ti to work?

Older series minis are known to have problems. This is a newer 581 series and its a Mini 30 not a mini 14. There is much higher operating pressure and thus more reliability. Stop bringing in old guns to the argument or I will bury you with your new production failures and old production m16a1 failures.

What you talkin about Z?

Shhh, I wanted him to wade deeper into it.

Im sorry I guess im blind as a bat and thought this said 7.62

http://www.hyattgunstore.com/dpms-panther-mk12-ar-15-in-308-adjustable-stock.html

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=320131494

Nevermind, he managed to anyways.

My AR did not come with a "farking" manual. I built it up and yes, read my previous post again. I run any kind of ammo I want to. No problems yet and thats running it through a carbine course. One thing to note though, I didnt tapco fuck mine up.

And I never said anything about a Mini-14.

I have decided your a new poster who is trolling all of us. So I give up...

I am going to make a post in the handgun forums how a Hi-Point 9MM is the perfect CCW piece and anyone who argues with me I will just link a bunch of youtube videos.

You n00bs suck at trolling.

Are you finally fessing up that this was a troll thread? Because that would make a lot more sense of this debacle.

I didnt use tapco. Also 9mm really sucks for knockdown power. a .22lr is more effective for self defense than 9mm so no matter what platform you use, unless its fully automatic, 9mm blows.

No I am not trolling im clearly making a case why a Mini 30 581 series is the best SHTF rifle out there. And none of you have provided legitimate arguments for a better rifle.

So far the m1 garand rotating bolt action is the most proven action in the world. And the 7.62x39mm is currently the best production cartridge for engagements within 350 yards. Even the 6.8 spc isnt much of an improvement (it is a huge improvement to the 5.56mm however)

Well duh, If Hi-Point made a .22 I would obviously recommend that over the 9MM as you are correct. The .22lr has serious knockdown potential. You know assassins use the .22lr because the bullet bounces around in the wound channel, causing superior damage.

Idk why you like hi point. but for the .22 conceal carry platform I use the ruger sr22 but if I could open carry i would use my stainless ruger mk II for .22 and my HK USP for my .40 depending on my taste for the day.

Also assassins most likely use the .22lr because it enters the skull and doesnt come out leaving little blood and little evidence. But yes the .22lr is known to "bounce around" more compared to a 9mm that goes in and stops.

How many more units of knockdown power does that .40 have over the 9mm?

Ill ask you to do your own research before asking such questions but Ill spoon feed you this time

.40 Smith & Wesson +P Ammo - 155 gr. (1,300 fps/M.E. 582 ft. lbs.)


7.45 g (115 gr) JHP +P+435 m/s (1,430 ft/s)704 J (519 ft·lbf) 9mm

You may want to try reposting that - there's velocity and kinetic energy figures there but no knockdown power units.

BTW, what's your favorite series of FAL?

I dont really like the FAL. I had one and it ftc one time on me and I got rid of it.

I dont know what knockdown power units are but Im sure you can calculate them out using that information. (if knockdown power units are real ive never heard of them)

You talk about knockdown power but don't even know the formula to calculate it?

Oh so you talk about the mk12 and dont know anything about it?

And yes I talk about knockdown power and I associate knockdown power by mass and velocity and how much energy the bullet disperses into the target. I talk about that yes

But you talk about knockdown power units which ive never heard of.

Like i said, you are a fail troll and my SHTF rifle is the best type of rifle for SHTF scenario and you have not proven otherwise using all your posts.

Yeah, that was my mistake, after your multiple posts about the M4, M21, etc I thought we were talking about military weapons, not Panther Arms products.

Even among military rifles, the 581+ series mini 30 is the best for SHTF.

You suck at facts.  You should have looked up Mk12 and Mk18 before responding.

Which brings us back to that whole thing about why they're not military weapons.

Because bids and contracts by companies who are in bed with the govt.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/

The M4/M16 family is both praised and criticized for its current performance in the field. In recent years, the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. Was that a blip in M4 buys, or a breaking point? DID explains the effort, the issues, and the options, as the Army moves forward with an “Individual Carbine” competition. But will it actually replace the M4?

Which that link proves they made a bad decision.

The govt makes bad decisions in short to satisfy your statement.

And those foreign Special Operations Commands that opt to use the M4 even when the AR isn't their nation's standard military rifle? ITAR preventing Ruger from exporting such a weapon of awesomeness?

The M4/M16 family is both praised and criticized for its current performance in the field. In recent years, the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. Was that a blip in M4 buys, or a breaking point? DID explains the effort, the issues, and the options, as the Army moves forward with an “Individual Carbine” competition. But will it actually replace the M4?

When we arm them, they use what we give them. Just like when we gave tanks and jets to egypt.

If our govt makes bad decisions, I wouldnt put it past other countries to make bad decisions either.

Factually the 5.45x39mm is superior to the 5.56 in body damage ballistics and lower recoil.

You've posted that link 5 times.  Do you have anything else to support your argument?