I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I am really pissed off. Last week I found a breeder who had two female Malinois pups. At the time he told me he only had the two. I picked the one I wanted and sent him a deposit.
I booked a motel room because he is 350 miles from me.
Today he calls me and says he will not sell me the dog because she is too high drive to be a pet. She needs to be a working dog. But he has a second female and a male that he would let me have.
I saw a post on his web side where someone had asked if the dog I had picked was still available.
My first reaction is to tell to F off and send me my deposit back.
Am I wrong or should I consider taking one of the other pups?

Get your deposit back and move on to a better breeder.





If they are very young pups then there is really no possible way he can accurately predict which one will be the 'best' dog for your particular application. He can only 'guess' by observing the dogs behavior at that particular point in time. That does not tell him shit about how the dog will perform later in life.

An 'honest' breeder will tell you that they all act like 'puppies' when you ask about things like temperament at a very young age...

There is no reason to believe that the 'runt' from a good litter can not grow up to be an awesome dog. How the dog ultimately ends up will depend on you and your abilities and patience as a trainer.

This, plus I wouldn't get any dog from a breeder that pulled something like that.  No telling what else they might lie about.

Basically, you are asking if we think it's a good idea to deal with a liar. So, there, stop and look at what I just wrote and think about that...

Further development, after I spoke to the breeder I sent him an e-mail stating I felt that by giving him a deposit we had a contract. I asked him to send me some pictures of the pups that would be available. I also wanted to be sure there would be pups to view as I was traveling 350 miles one way, and I was expecting to take one home. His reply, since I was so demanding he would not have any pups for me. Nice, true AH

I'll bet you a dollar the other guy offered more money for the pup you wanted

Maybe, maybe not.  I also breed (snakes).  Sometimes a baby isn't quite ready to go as it's not old enough or not eating reliably yet and needs a bit of extra TLC before being rehomed, or sometimes it is spoken for and then the buyer backs out, so the animal goes back up for sale.

I'm also picky about who gets my animals, and if I don't think it'll be a good fit then I don't make the sale.  A baby Brazilian Rainbow Boa isn't going home with someone who expects it to live and be healthy in a glass tank as they need 90% humidity to survive.  I'm also not selling a defensive female reticulated python neonate that can top out at 20 feet as an adult to someone who has never owned a snake before.

I've never owned a Mal but my understanding is that they are very high-drive dogs and unfortunately many do end up with people who are totally unprepared for that.  If you gave the breeder the impression that you wanted a pet and not a working dog then I'm guessing he used his experience to assess the dog's behavior, saw a train wreck in the making, and decided to avoid it.

It does sound a little fishy.


However, I do believe a good breeder with experience can get a pretty good read on the personality and drive of a pup. It gets easier as the puppies age.  Unlikely to be able to get any such read at 4-5 weeks, which is often when people start 'speaking for' specific pups, can be easier to get a decent read around 7-8 weeks.  In such a case though where the breeder is going to be attempting to judge 'this pup's drive =must go to a working home: this pup's drive = pet quality'  the breeder needs to make this clear when dealing with serious buyers, and especially before a deposit is made.




OP, never never never take a dog you are even the smallest bit uncertain about for the sake of 'loosing the deposit'




Second, OP, link us to this breeder's webpage and facebook.  For every breeder pulling shenanigans there are 10 buyers who fail to read and fully comprehend the contract.  There may well be language 'breeder reserves the right to deny access to pups that the breeder thinks will be a poor fit'...still doesn't mean the breeder isn't just switching due to a higher payer, but if something like that is in the contract then switch offer between this pup and that pup should be to a degree expected


 

It was not a case of me willing to take a different pup for fear of losing the deposit. The breeder was the one who decided he would net sell me that one.The pup was born on May 15 2015 so at the time of the deposit  she was almost 9 weeks old. He called me 9 days later(that would make her 10 weeks+ old. I understand pups change personality But in 9 days?.
When we talked on the phone that if he would not sell me that one, I was willing to look at the other pups and I asked for him to send me some pictures. I then e-mailed him and wanted to know if the other two would be there for me to see. I was coming 350 miles one way and just wanted to be sure there would be something to see.I again asked him for some pictures.
Apparently he thought I was too demanding and then refused to sell me any pups.
Having been in law enforcement one has a tendency to be a little cynical about what people are telling you.
Having been out for many years I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I have had German Shepherds for over 40 years and have trained them all from pups. I have known about the Malinois for more than 30 years and about their high drive.
I live on 35 acres with about 10 acres of fields so there would be no issue about her getting enough exercise.
Since it was to late to get a refund on the room my wife said we would just go for the weekend, well the place was so nice we are going back for a week later in the summer.

I don' want to go there, his web site and face book is a little vague. Very minimal no links. He might be a nice guy maybe a little senile.I have decided to move on and wait until next spring to get a new dog.

Can't speak to this specific situation, but breeders are, in general, a very, VERY odd breed themselves. Particularly if you are into a niche breed, like my own Akitas, or a Mal, or something really rare like a Beauceron.

A lot of breeders look upon their dogs as "objets d'art". This is a very sad state of affairs. And these same breeders may pay more attention to conformation than temperament. Those who are producing dogs with an emphasis on working temperaments can be just as flighty.

When I got my first Akita I was forced to take a medium drive female of questionable temperament. She turned out to be 99% perfect, with the remaining 1% being "red zone" dog aggressiveness. Ultimately we made our bones in the very small Akita community by virtue of our performance in the competitive obedience arena. This lead to us being able to have the proverbial pick of the litter the second time around.

The bottom line is that there's no telling what any breeder might do or not do, whether it's for money, love, philosophy, or whatever.

All this is very true. Breeders do tend to be a bit of an odd lot. The reputable ones care deeply for their dogs and want them to go to the best possible homes, and that can lead to some very quirky habits. I also tend to favor the rare, niche breeds, and you can run into some very interesting characters on a regular basis where they are concerned.

I wouldn't take that bet because I agree with you.

"I want to see some pics because I'm driving 350 miles"  = "you're too demanding!"????  WTF???

Not only is the breeder a liar, he's an asshole to boot.

I have had experience with (bulldog) English, and breeders many times want to have you show the dog you buy. The breeder will attempt to only sell their better dogs to show homes, simply say that you are considering showing or in your case working the dog. Don't make a commitment  about, the dogs use.
Hope you have a long and happy life with the addition to your family.