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Posted: 1/17/2014 9:32:01 PM EST
Has anyone here who attended SHOT enquired into whether runs of 9mm and .22LR ammunition will be done soon by any of the manufacturers? What are the manufacturers saying about production output?

5.56/.223 is now readily available here, but .22LR and 9mm are still a pain to find.
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Posted: 1/17/2014 10:42:19 PM EST
MAN you got that right. It has been a year now and 22 is still NOT easy to find or when you do find it people are marking it up to make money.
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Posted: 1/17/2014 10:53:51 PM EST
I wish I saw 1/10th as many companies announce ammunition lines as there were that announced new firearms lines.

We really need more ammunition to keep our ranks growing. If folks can't shoot they will not buy firearms...just that simple. Ammunition has to be readily available and inexpensive to promote the rest of the industry.
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Posted: 1/17/2014 11:20:17 PM EST
A Hornady rep told me that their ammunition production is up by 40%, but demand is up 200%. I don't know if those numbers are similar at Remington, Speer, or Winchester, but I'm guessing they are. More manufacturers are going to have to get into the market or demand will have to decrease before we see anything 'normal'.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 12:01:21 AM EST
Any mention of material shortages or was it all just inability to have production capacity meet demand?

I mean at this point I'd welcome foreign companies importing more into the US.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 12:14:22 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SilentType:
I wish I saw 1/10th as many companies announce ammunition lines as there were that announced new firearms lines.

We really need more ammunition to keep our ranks growing. If folks can't shoot they will not buy firearms...just that simple. Ammunition has to be readily available and inexpensive to promote the rest of the industry.
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Originally Posted By SilentType:
I wish I saw 1/10th as many companies announce ammunition lines as there were that announced new firearms lines.

We really need more ammunition to keep our ranks growing. If folks can't shoot they will not buy firearms...just that simple. Ammunition has to be readily available and inexpensive to promote the rest of the industry.


Lots of the fresh blood in the gun world aren't buying guns to actually shoot them... Just sayin'.

Just like most people who own guns don't actually shoot them annually.

Originally Posted By SilentType:
Any mention of material shortages or was it all just inability to have production capacity meet demand?


You do know that demand is sky high, right? Ammo makers have been running extra shifts (a few running three shifts, when they have the needed components) for a long time now. They are doing everything reasonable to fill what they see as a temporary increase in demand.

I mean at this point I'd welcome foreign companies importing more into the US.


A huge amount of rimfire ammo is imported... The majority if I recall correctly.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 5:47:40 AM EST
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Posted: 1/18/2014 6:03:21 AM EST
There's no shortage on 9mm.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 7:17:41 AM EST
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


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Posted: 1/18/2014 7:21:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By PCBliss:
There's no shortage on 9mm.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 1:05:28 PM EST
Remington is cranking out more 22LR than ever
They have just spent $32 million to make more here in Arkansas
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Posted: 1/18/2014 10:39:11 PM EST
My local Wal-mart has 9mm and 40 S&W stacked to the ceiling. 22LR not so much. You can still find it if you look hard enough.
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Posted: 1/18/2014 10:54:52 PM EST
22lr shortage is easy to understand, all other ammo prices are way too high, so people don't buy and shoot them, they all switched to buy and shoot 22lr which is cheaper. to solve the problem, either lower other ammo prices, or make more 22lr, or raises 22lr price as well
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Posted: 1/19/2014 9:40:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2014 9:41:37 PM EST by SilentType]
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:

Lots of the fresh blood in the gun world aren't buying guns to actually shoot them... Just sayin'.
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:

Lots of the fresh blood in the gun world aren't buying guns to actually shoot them... Just sayin'.


I don't have firm data at hand, but it certainly appears to me that there are more firearms instruction courses and greater participation in firearms competition than at any point in recent history. I believe those competitions and courses are a draw for people to purchase firearms.


Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Just like most people who own guns don't actually shoot them annually.


I don't know if that's true or not. However, I do know that record numbers of people are going through the NICS background checks and I assume as the number of firearms owners grow so to does the number of people who actually fire their firearms annually even if the percentage remains roughly the same. In my State we continue to see large numbers of people obtaining licenses to concealed carry and that means they are attending the required course and shooting the required 100 rounds.


Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:

You do know that demand is sky high, right? Ammo makers have been running extra shifts (a few running three shifts, when they have the needed components) for a long time now. They are doing everything reasonable to fill what they see as a temporary increase in demand.


I assume demand is sky high. I assume it has been sky high for some time now since as someone how actually shoots his firearms I have seen ammunition steadily rise in price while being told that the manufacturers are adding shifts to increase production output. The recent extreme demand may not continue, but I think demand will continue to steadily climb. The "new normal" in terms of ammunition demand is just going to be more than it was in 2011.


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Posted: 1/19/2014 9:42:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Malitov:
My local Wal-mart has 9mm and 40 S&W stacked to the ceiling. 22LR not so much. You can still find it if you look hard enough.
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That's not the case here unfortunately with 9mm. We do have 40 S&W available, but I wouldn't say it was stacked to the ceiling just yet.
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Posted: 1/20/2014 5:22:48 PM EST
Right now, based on industry orders and reports, it looks like it will be after the 2nd quarter of 2015 before the ammo binge is over. That's barring any new events spiking demand again.
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Posted: 1/20/2014 5:46:54 PM EST
OP: Do you now not feel comfortable for some reason with lets say five bricks in the cabinet? I know that before the madness if I had two bricks in the cabinet I would be fine with that till I got down to half a brick I would go get more. With the way things are now no matter what I pick up my allowance of three boxes or one brick whatever the place of business delegates. I know I am not alone call it hording if you want, but when I see it I purchase it. I cant sit up at wally world every morning or whatever so when it's else where I grab it. This time last year there was hardly any 5.56 to come by now it's everywhere I go. Hopefully it will all level off, but it wont till everyone like me quits impulse buying for the if question.
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Posted: 1/20/2014 8:57:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.
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that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
Practically practical.
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Posted: 1/20/2014 10:12:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By 13starsinax:
OP: Do you now not feel comfortable for some reason with lets say five bricks in the cabinet? I know that before the madness if I had two bricks in the cabinet I would be fine with that till I got down to half a brick I would go get more. With the way things are now no matter what I pick up my allowance of three boxes or one brick whatever the place of business delegates. I know I am not alone call it hording if you want, but when I see it I purchase it. I cant sit up at wally world every morning or whatever so when it's else where I grab it. This time last year there was hardly any 5.56 to come by now it's everywhere I go. Hopefully it will all level off, but it wont till everyone like me quits impulse buying for the if question.
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Normally I am fine with two to five bricks at home. But normally there is fifty plus cases at work to replace it with. Basically been out of stock on 22LR for the last year. Where there is nothing on the shelf at work, I want at least two cases at home. Trouble is I shoot the stuff. Between myself, my wife, and our boys, with no special effort on any ones part, cases of 22LR disappear. I mean just evaporate. A couple of bricks means we are out of ammo.
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Posted: 1/21/2014 9:22:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PAPPYO:


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
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Originally Posted By PAPPYO:
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.
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Posted: 1/22/2014 8:23:09 AM EST
PER DAY.


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Posted: 1/22/2014 12:16:12 PM EST
With current availability of rimfire ammo I haven't been able to buy a brick for a year and haven't shot a single round of rimfire ammo the whole time.
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Posted: 1/23/2014 8:27:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/23/2014 8:31:22 PM EST by 9divdoc]
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Originally Posted By ARMED-PILOT:
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.
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Originally Posted By ARMED-PILOT:
Originally Posted By PAPPYO:http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=modify&b=1&f=150&t=1581945&r=45265500&page=1#
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.


thats about 3.33 bricks per county per day in WI
or
4.44 bricks per Walmart per day in WI (if Walmart got all the ammo and no one else did)
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Posted: 1/24/2014 10:34:18 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:


thats about 3.33 bricks per county per day in WI
or
4.44 bricks per Walmart per day in WI (if Walmart got all the ammo and no one else did)
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By ARMED-PILOT:
Originally Posted By PAPPYO:http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=modify&b=1&f=150&t=1581945&r=45265500&page=1#
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.


thats about 3.33 bricks per county per day in WI
or
4.44 bricks per Walmart per day in WI (if Walmart got all the ammo and no one else did)


There are two walmarts in my county (waukesha) so that's 1.66 bricks per day or roughly 550 per year and both stores serve about 200000 customers so if even 20% shot that's 40000 customers with 550 bricks. No wonder the ammo is impossible to find.
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Posted: 1/24/2014 7:24:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Green0:


There are two walmarts in my county (waukesha) so that's 1.66 bricks per day or roughly 550 per year and both stores serve about 200000 customers so if even 20% shot that's 40000 customers with 550 bricks. No wonder the ammo is impossible to find.
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Originally Posted By Green0:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By ARMED-PILOT:
Originally Posted By PAPPYO:http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=modify&b=1&f=150&t=1581945&r=45265500&page=1#
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.


thats about 3.33 bricks per county per day in WI
or
4.44 bricks per Walmart per day in WI (if Walmart got all the ammo and no one else did)


There are two walmarts in my county (waukesha) so that's 1.66 bricks per day or roughly 550 per year and both stores serve about 200000 customers so if even 20% shot that's 40000 customers with 550 bricks. No wonder the ammo is impossible to find.


You do realize that's just Federal, right? Not Winchester, Remington, CCI, Aguila, etc?

Furthermore, far less than 20% of the populace shoots.
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Posted: 1/24/2014 11:30:05 PM EST
There is plenty of .22 ammo available on gunbot.net if your willing to pay $$$$$$$ .15-.60 CPR.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 8:44:51 PM EST
Problem is that new shooters such as women and children are introduced to firearms through using those chambered in .22 LR.

In my opinion,if that isn't readily available and inexpensive you will not see the small clubs that help instruct children active and it will be more difficult to get women into the sport.

As far as 20% of shooters actually using their firearms I think that's a bullshit numbered pulled from thin air. Even if it was true though according to the NICS numbers more background checks are being conducted every year, which is a good indication the number of gun owners is climbing. We can also look at the number of concealed carry licenses being issued and see that each year more and more people are obtaining them. It would certainly seem that the number of people owning firearms is increasing. So, that 20% number grows and grows.
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Posted: 1/25/2014 11:31:13 PM EST
I've completely given up on the .22LR round. I actually work full time so I don't have time to run around to stores all day to find a box, a brick or a bucket here or there.

Everyone seems to be doing that so I see plenty of it for sale on gun forums if you want to spend $60~80.00 per 500 rounds or $200+ for a Bucket-o-bullets.

I've sold my dedicated CMMG .22LR upper, my CMMG .22LR conversion, my GSG-MP5 .22LR, and both of my Ruger 22/45 pistols.

The average going price for .22LR around here is $6~8.00 per 50 rounds, for a couple bucks more I can have a 50 round box of 9mm and NOT have to run all over looking for it. Plus .223/5.56 is EASY to get for around $5.00 dollars a box.

Some day I'll invest in another .22LR I'm sure but for right now, blah whats the point.
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Posted: 1/26/2014 11:12:57 AM EST
http://gunbot.net/ammo/rimfire/22lr/

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Posted: 2/7/2014 7:05:36 PM EST
How long after a year does one term something short term demand? Sounds like opportunity to me for some enterprising group.
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Posted: 2/7/2014 10:59:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By nigla:
How long after a year does one term something short term demand? Sounds like opportunity to me for some enterprising group.
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When the lead times for the machines to make the product are measured in years, requiring years of profitable use thereafter to justify their purchase, short term is not so short.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 3:25:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:


When the lead times for the machines to make the product are measured in years, requiring years of profitable use thereafter to justify their purchase, short term is not so short.
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Originally Posted By nigla:
How long after a year does one term something short term demand? Sounds like opportunity to me for some enterprising group.


When the lead times for the machines to make the product are measured in years, requiring years of profitable use thereafter to justify their purchase, short term is not so short.


This plus you can add at least another year after delivery to hire and train personnel, install the machines, and get them running at full capacity.

The ROI sucks when you factor that the ammo price will return to $0.03/rd street price way before you can even produce the first round.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 3:38:49 PM EST
I use wikiarms and get alerts constantly for .05/round
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Posted: 1/19/2015 4:14:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2015 4:15:29 PM EST by Will]
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:


When the lead times for the machines to make the product are measured in years, requiring years of profitable use thereafter to justify their purchase, short term is not so short.
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Originally Posted By TexasRifleman1985:
Originally Posted By nigla:
How long after a year does one term something short term demand? Sounds like opportunity to me for some enterprising group.


When the lead times for the machines to make the product are measured in years, requiring years of profitable use thereafter to justify their purchase, short term is not so short.



While that is certainly true....Newtown and the subsequent madness was TWO YEARS ago and counting......I don't see the demand slackening before Three or Four years have passed....Do you?
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:18:13 PM EST
You guys know you are posting in a thread from last year right? This horse died two years ago.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 12:59:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By aedavis:
A Hornady rep told me that their ammunition production is up by 40%, but demand is up 200%. I don't know if those numbers are similar at Remington, Speer, or Winchester, but I'm guessing they are. More manufacturers are going to have to get into the market or demand will have to decrease before we see anything 'normal'.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 3:48:22 PM EST
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:46:50 PM EST
i can find 9mm all day
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:50:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Green0:


There are two walmarts in my county (waukesha) so that's 1.66 bricks per day or roughly 550 per year and both stores serve about 200000 customers so if even 20% shot that's 40000 customers with 550 bricks. No wonder the ammo is impossible to find.
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By ARMED-PILOT:
Originally Posted By PAPPYO:http://www.ar15.com/forums/manageReply.html?a=modify&b=1&f=150&t=1581945&r=45265500&page=1#
Originally Posted By ChickenDaddy:
At federal we average 4.5 million rounds of 22lr made and packed every 24 hr period, 24/7. Last week we did 5.2 million one period (unusual). That's just the Anoka plant. Think of all the other foreign and domestic produced 22. People are just scared and hoarding--which is OK by me. Just like rice how many years ago? People who never bought rice had a sack in their homes like a talisman. I know people who never shoot who want 22lr.


that's crankin it out! I'm surprised an offshore company hasn't built a plant here? down southeast
That is only 10,400 bricks or 208 bricks per state.


thats about 3.33 bricks per county per day in WI
or
4.44 bricks per Walmart per day in WI (if Walmart got all the ammo and no one else did)


There are two walmarts in my county (waukesha) so that's 1.66 bricks per day or roughly 550 per year and both stores serve about 200000 customers so if even 20% shot that's 40000 customers with 550 bricks. No wonder the ammo is impossible to find.


there are 3 walmarts in your county....Delafield, Pewaukee, and Waukesha
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Posted: 1/20/2015 4:53:22 PM EST
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Originally Posted By trackstarpre:
i can find 9mm all day
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Yeah, this thread is a year old.

The only reason that 22 is hard to come by is that we have been conditioned to by it as soon as we see it. If everyone would stop buying for two weeks we would be in much better shape.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 6:47:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556:

Yeah, this thread is a year old.

The only reason that 22 is hard to come by is that we have been conditioned to by it as soon as we see it. If everyone would stop buying for two weeks we would be in much better shape.
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
Originally Posted By trackstarpre:
i can find 9mm all day

Yeah, this thread is a year old.

The only reason that 22 is hard to come by is that we have been conditioned to by it as soon as we see it. If everyone would stop buying for two weeks we would be in much better shape.

It is so high because it is being sold at a cost BELOW what the demand would dictate. People buy that shit up just to sell it. .22 prices need to go up from the manufacturer all the way to the retailer until these dip shits can't make any money off it.
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Posted: 1/20/2015 8:01:47 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PCBliss:
There's no shortage on 9mm.
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Yeah I have some at my local Walmart most days........ .22 I have score 2 boxes in the last year and half
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Posted: 1/21/2015 8:23:14 PM EST
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:18:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jh1990:

It is so high because it is being sold at a cost BELOW what the demand would dictate. People buy that shit up just to sell it. .22 prices need to go up from the manufacturer all the way to the retailer until these dip shits can't make any money off it.
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Originally Posted By jh1990:
Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
Originally Posted By trackstarpre:
i can find 9mm all day

Yeah, this thread is a year old.

The only reason that 22 is hard to come by is that we have been conditioned to by it as soon as we see it. If everyone would stop buying for two weeks we would be in much better shape.

It is so high because it is being sold at a cost BELOW what the demand would dictate. People buy that shit up just to sell it. .22 prices need to go up from the manufacturer all the way to the retailer until these dip shits can't make any money off it.

cuz thatll work once the manufactures see how much more money they are making
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Posted: 1/21/2015 10:34:45 PM EST
Anyone notice the Fed aluminum cased 9mm at el walmarto? I'm gonna have to try some. Since I can't find .22 anymore I've been working my G17 a bit more than usual.
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Posted: 1/22/2015 12:29:03 AM EST
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I am going to be hosting my 14 year old niece this summer, and besides teaching her how to work on cars, paint, repair appliances, I was planning on putting her through the lostnswv school of how to shoot stuff...a lot. Now I can actually find some ammo for the .22 conversion units, I am a happier person. Thanks recon.
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Posted: 1/24/2015 8:04:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cpermd:
Remington is cranking out more 22LR than ever
They have just spent $32 million to make more here in Arkansas
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Posted: 1/24/2015 9:54:29 PM EST
I walked up to Aguila and was able to buy any amount from 50K rounds to a container (40ft conex) of .22LR as long as I bought an additional same amount of centerfire ammo.

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