User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 6:07:17 AM EDT
Guy I go way back with to H.S. days is always asking me to jam with him...I keep saying no, simply because he can't play at all, not one iota. zip..zilch...except for the opening lines of "wish you were here". Doesn't even know how to play or understand a basic blues progression. Back in the day I studied my instrument, took lessons, jammed with lots of people and basically put a shit ton of time into it to become a better player.
This guy did none of that and for whatever reason now wants to "jam" whenever he comes over, it's gotten to the point where if i know he's coming over i put the guitars away, otherwise he picks them up without my permission and starts making what is essentially noise. Before someone says "glocke12" you sound like a selfish douche...I've invested time with the guy and tried teaching the guy some stuff, but he doesn't listen or grasp any of it and anymore whenever he pulls a guitar out it always ends in frustration for me. Don't mind doing other things with the dude, fishing, hikes, shooting etc...but when it comes to guitar, 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 8:12:40 AM EDT
[#1]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:48:59 AM EDT
[#2]
I think we're friends with the same dude, OP.
Nobody likes a musician with a sense of superiority, though. As grating on the nerves as it is, you have to be patient with your buddy and refrain from acting as though you're above him. Sure, you can play better, but there are dudes that have had to put up with you and your lesser skills at some point. Show some humility. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:51:54 AM EDT
[#3]
maybe he is a drummer?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 2:12:26 PM EDT
[#4]
I've got a friend, God bless him, he's a good friend, but he can't keep time to save his hide.
I've got another friend, who can keep time, but only in some sort of weird time signature that only exists in his head. I was even in a band with him for awhile, and if anything that was too far astray from "his" time signature, he was lost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 5:02:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Is it possible that your buddy is not a professional, or even an aspiring musician? Maybe he just likes having fun and goofing around on guitars with his buddy who is way better than him? Could be you are taking yourself way too seriously.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 3:24:48 AM EDT
[#6]
I will play with anyone just to mess around a bit. I do not get absorbed into myself when it comes to music anymore. I play now because I have a love for it. We have a guy in our band that holds a guitar and knows GCDEA open chords and that is it. I have worked with him many times and he just doesn't seem to be interested in progress but bless his heart he can do vocals really good and since he is strictly a none plugged in acoustic all is good. The guitar is just a prop for himself on a lot of our material.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 4:04:31 AM EDT
[#7]
This very subject has been nagging at me for weeks. When is he going to put some time and effort into it? How about changing strings once in a while?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 4:15:41 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it possible that your buddy is not a professional, or even an aspiring musician? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it possible that your buddy is not a professional, or even an aspiring musician? Quoted:
Maybe he just likes having fun and goofing around on guitars with his buddy who is way better than him? Could be you are taking yourself way too seriously. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 6:34:01 AM EDT
[#9]
LOL
OP's friend sounds like me. Which is why I never ask to jam with anyone who actually knows how to play. I can jam with my stereo and not piss anyone off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 6:45:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Is it a bad sign that I'm a blues style player who fucking hates playing the god damned blues?
ETA: I say this because nobody wants to jam anything else, and those that only know songs have no fucking idea how to play any type of blues. It becomes a complete waste of time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 9:29:59 AM EDT
[#11]
We call “musicians” like that “freedom players”.
They’re free from time, key, chord progressions, tuning, taste and the ability to notice that they suck and need to take lessons. Life’s too short to mess with guys like that. Doesn’t make you an elitist or selfish or intolerant. As my grandma used to say, “Never try to pet a burning dog”. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 10:36:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL OP's friend sounds like me. Which is why I never ask to jam with anyone who actually knows how to play. I can jam with my stereo and not piss anyone off. 
I enjoy it. I practice a little. I try to learn. And I'm just good enough to know that I shouldn't try to jam with people who actually know how to play. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 11:38:43 AM EDT
[#13]
OP, like I said, I've been in your exact situation. Had a buddy who I helped in all sorts of ways to no avail, musically speaking. He was destined to try my nerves every time he picked up the guitar.
We're talking about friends here, though. Ths isn't a random dude trying to crash valuable rehearsal time with your band. That would be one thing. What you really have is a harmless bud, enthusiastic but talentless, who looks up to you and your abilities. It's unrealistic to expect him to do all the things a serious musician does. He's in it for fun or to impress tone deaf chicks, likely realizing that he'll never amount to squat. Knowing you and getting to say that he jams with you is his end game. If you can't tolerate sitting with him for an hour with a couple of acoustics, tell him what you're telling us. Personally, I find it flattering and humbling to have friends that lean on me musically. Showing patience and encouragement in the face of their inabilities increases my stock as a dude. If you don't see it that way, do your bud a solid. Have an honest conversation instead of hiding your guitars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 11:47:42 AM EDT
[#14]
I said no to all those folks a long time ago.
It's okay to fart together and still be friends, but playing together (for me) is a different thing. I play seriously even when I don't; music is a serious thing to me. It took my commitment, efforts, money, physical and mental strength and I will not play with anyone who doesn't show similar commitment. Sorry, it's the way it is - some people are unaware. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 12:18:51 PM EDT
[#15]
My friend that I've been talking about in this thread, he had a boat and lots of fishing gear.
Took me out on the lake many times, let me use his spare rod and reel, and put up gracefully with my novice fishing abilities. Friends don't act stuck up when it comes to sharing their equipment and expertise. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 1:41:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it a bad sign that I'm a blues style player who fucking hates playing the god damned blues? ETA: I say this because nobody wants to jam anything else, and those that only know songs have no fucking idea how to play any type of blues. It becomes a complete waste of time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 1:57:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, like I said, I've been in your exact situation. Had a buddy who I helped in all sorts of ways to no avail, musically speaking. He was destined to try my nerves every time he picked up the guitar. We're talking about friends here, though. Ths isn't a random dude trying to crash valuable rehearsal time with your band. That would be one thing. What you really have is a harmless bud, enthusiastic but talentless, who looks up to you and your abilities. It's unrealistic to expect him to do all the things a serious musician does. He's in it for fun or to impress tone deaf chicks, likely realizing that he'll never amount to squat. Knowing you and getting to say that he jams with you is his end game. If you can't tolerate sitting with him for an hour with a couple of acoustics, tell him what you're telling us. Personally, I find it flattering and humbling to have friends that lean on me musically. Showing patience and encouragement in the face of their inabilities increases my stock as a dude. If you don't see it that way, do your bud a solid. Have an honest conversation instead of hiding your guitars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/22/2017 4:37:41 PM EDT
[#18]
Back in the 80s I jamed with whomever but you had to be covert so your band mates didn't think you were cheatin on them lol. Today I jam with nobody cuz the only people who want to play are ones who want lessons, which I am incapable of doing well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/24/2017 9:43:39 PM EDT
[#19]
I am in the middle of this spectrum of skill.
I play many instruments, so I can read music and am getting an increasing knowledge of theory. I have friends that want to play simple tunes with me, and I enjoy the time spent even when they obviously haven't been practicing and can't keep up technically. On the other hand, I have a few friends that are much better at playing and performing. Since they do it every day as a job, they never seem to want to just play around with me on the guitar. When we do play, I soak up any new knowledge I can get and I try to improve my ability. It's just too rare an event though. Because it's so rare that we play, and it's hard to get families together with all the hectic schedules, I feel like I am ALWAYS asking for some time to play music with them. I hate seeming like that, but there are definite walls up. If this friend of yours is a good friend and comes over all the time, then have an honest conversation. Let him know you take music seriously and that you need goals to have a satisfying practice. The next time he wants to jam, ask him what goal he wants to achieve. If it's a song, then teach him some of the chord theory behind the song structure. Let him know that he needs to practice, because next time it will be a more advanced part of the lesson. If he is serious too, this will give him a reason to step up his game. If he's not serious, then the next time he comes over you can show your disappointment that he hasn't practiced. I teach music to my ability for anyone that wants to learn. I am not a "pro" so I don't charge. This may spark another debate, but music is important to me and I know too many people that can play but don't want to share the knowledge. That's how things end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2017 9:27:37 AM EDT
[#20]
If he's a good friend that you're worried about hurting the feelings of then I guess I'd just get really good at playing the lead part on Wish You Were Here. Maybe after having what he considers to be a "good" jam sesh where you guys both play the two guitar parts of a song together he will be motivated to learn more of the song.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2017 11:11:45 AM EDT
[#21]
but... but... i just want to play!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2017 11:28:40 AM EDT
[#22]
I agree with the OP, life is too short to play with people who can't.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2017 1:29:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Lol, I don't have kids so I guess I don't have to worry about rationing time. I'm all good with playing with people who are at a lower skill level than I am
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/25/2017 1:29:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Lol, I don't have kids so I guess I don't have to worry about rationing time. I'm all good with playing with people who are at a lower skill level than I am
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/30/2017 10:52:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Well, this has certainly been an eye opening thread.
And I thought the gun hobby was full of assholes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/31/2017 10:45:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Instead of saying negative things about your friend here on arfcom, maybe you can look at your situation from another direction. Like giving lessons, and earning money. Even if it is beer money. Win - win.
Next time, tell him sure... bring a 12-pack over and we'll jam and I will show you a few things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/1/2017 8:31:04 AM EDT
[#27]
I don't judge people for a lack of knowledge, because, heck, there's alot I that I don't know about theory. And I've showed people stuff that I know.
But the two friends I mentioned above? One was raised by a Dad that was a musician, and the other has been playing since he was a teenager. They know about metronomes, drum machines, ect. They just struggle with keeping time. Always have. *shrug* |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2017 5:06:44 PM EDT
[#28]
I invite my Guitar Friends over for "Tent City", a big cookout and impromptu jam around the fire.
We have a good time, have some good jams, everyone is relaxed. Going to need a teleprompter for lyrics. Is hard to remember the words to a Dylan song with 87 verses! Everyone learns a few new chords or scales and I help put it into a song. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/11/2017 6:39:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't judge people for a lack of knowledge, because, heck, there's alot I that I don't know about theory. And I've showed people stuff that I know. But the two friends I mentioned above? One was raised by a Dad that was a musician, and the other has been playing since he was a teenager. They know about metronomes, drum machines, ect. They just struggle with keeping time. Always have. *shrug* |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/12/2017 5:59:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Instead of saying negative things about your friend here on arfcom, maybe you can look at your situation from another direction. Like giving lessons, and earning money. Even if it is beer money. Win - win. Next time, tell him sure... bring a 12-pack over and we'll jam and I will show you a few things. I've know the guy for over 20 years, have tried teaching him things, getting him to learn even a simply 12 bar blues, have given him the names of teachers in the area who have reasonable rates, etc..Spent many, many hours with the guy and none of it worked. Honestly, while the guys a friend him coming over and plugging in an electric guitar and making what is essentially noise and wanting me to play along is just a source of aggravation/frustration for me especially since all of the advice I've given him over the years fell on deaf ears. I know I probably sound like a dick, but it is what it is and Im pretty much past the point where I will willingly put myself into a situation that aggravates me like that. Many other things I don't mind doing with this person...hell, I wouldn't even mind spending an afternoon helping him fix the roof on his house, but playing music? nope.... FWIW I even know people that have chops that I won't play with because while they are able to produce something that sounds like music, it isn't really anything you can jam/play along to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/16/2017 8:25:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Op, you could have just told me the truth instead of embarrassing me here
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/16/2017 8:40:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Isn't James Hetfield on her, rumored anyways? James, is that you?
In all seriousness, I understand and relate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/16/2017 1:09:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
maybe he is a drummer? I've had several people come up at jams and what not and say, "You know, drumming looks pretty easy. I always figured I could do it." Me:"Well hop on that kit and go to town" <After several minutes of "Full Retard on a Drum Set" by Crippled Water Buffalo> "That's harder than it looks." YA THINK? I just make it look it easy and it only took me years to do it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 3:23:10 AM EDT
[#34]
OP I don't blame you, and I don't think you're a dick. If I happened to know Lebron James, I wouldn't roll over to his house expecting him to humor me with a game of one on one every time I came to visit. It might be amusing for me but I'm sure it would suck ass for Lebron.
I've invested a TON of time over the years to get to the level I am as a musician, and when I play I tend to only play with professional quality players. If I were to play with a total beginner or hack, it would be of my deliberate choosing, like a relative or someone I really wanted to mess around with. It isn't anyone else's decision to make that I must jam with them. I'm not some trained monkey who should be expected to humor you by playing with you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 3:26:05 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had several people come up at jams and what not and say, "You know, drumming looks pretty easy. I always figured I could do it." Me:"Well hop on that kit and go to town" <After several minutes of "Full Retard on a Drum Set" by Crippled Water Buffalo> "That's harder than it looks." YA THINK? I just make it look it easy and it only took me years to do it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 12:23:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By and large most people I've encountered have been super respectful, and right off the bat will watch me play and insist they probably don't have it in them. In that case, I'll insist that learning a basic 4/4 rock beat is something anyone can do and try to get them to try it. After about 5 minutes of that, then you typically see the look of realization on their face, that they are light years from being able to actually play anything remotely complicated on the drums, and they realize how much time it must take to get truly good at it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've had several people come up at jams and what not and say, "You know, drumming looks pretty easy. I always figured I could do it." Me:"Well hop on that kit and go to town" <After several minutes of "Full Retard on a Drum Set" by Crippled Water Buffalo> "That's harder than it looks." YA THINK? I just make it look it easy and it only took me years to do it. Not so with the OP's friend or the people you describe, and that's why music education for kids is important. Why, just a few weeks ago I got the practice pad, sticks, and metronome out for my youngest. Whether drumming is in her future or not, she will at least grasp the fundamentals, and won't end up frustrating the hell out of someone later should she choose to pursue it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 12:35:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've had several people come up at jams and what not and say, "You know, drumming looks pretty easy. I always figured I could do it." Me:"Well hop on that kit and go to town" <After several minutes of "Full Retard on a Drum Set" by Crippled Water Buffalo> "That's harder than it looks." YA THINK? I just make it look it easy and it only took me years to do it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
maybe he is a drummer? Me:"Well hop on that kit and go to town" <After several minutes of "Full Retard on a Drum Set" by Crippled Water Buffalo> "That's harder than it looks." YA THINK? I just make it look it easy and it only took me years to do it. .. The rest of us know that.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 1:03:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP I don't blame you, and I don't think you're a dick. If I happened to know Lebron James, I wouldn't roll over to his house expecting him to humor me with a game of one on one every time I came to visit. It might be amusing for me but I'm sure it would suck ass for Lebron. I've invested a TON of time over the years to get to the level I am as a musician, and when I play I tend to only play with professional quality players. If I were to play with a total beginner or hack, it would be of my deliberate choosing, like a relative or someone I really wanted to mess around with. It isn't anyone else's decision to make that I must jam with them. I'm not some trained monkey who should be expected to humor you by playing with you. Again, this is just my personal attitude, but while I may possess musical skills, I am clearly not Joe Satriani. Therefore, I must be extremely cautious not to elevate myself mentally. I am not an elite musician whose superior skills are indisputable. The difference I perceive between athletes and musicians is that athletes, both amateur and professional, seem to have a more realistic view of their respective places in the world. Even the elites seem capable of deference toward the .01% who outrank them. Musicians, on the other hand, often give in to the temptation to place themselves among the ranks of the truly great. This isn't to say that many of these are without talent or skill, just that they are still among the bottom percentile, and don't really get it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/24/2017 3:34:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For me, the Lebron James analogy doesn't hold water because he is an elite athete whose superior skills are indisputable. He doesn't have to build himself up in his own mind. He can rightly look at the world and say, "I'm Lebron James, bitch!" Again, this is just my personal attitude, but while I may possess musical skills, I am clearly not Joe Satriani. Therefore, I must be extremely cautious not to elevate myself mentally. I am not an elite musician whose superior skills are indisputable. The difference I perceive between athletes and musicians is that athletes, both amateur and professional, seem to have a more realistic view of their respective places in the world. Even the elites seem capable of deference toward the .01% who outrank them. Musicians, on the other hand, often give in to the temptation to place themselves among the ranks of the truly great. This isn't to say that many of these are without talent or skill, just that they are still among the bottom percentile, and don't really get it. What OP is describing is a friend who is terrible. He shouldn't have to humor him by playing with him whenever his buddy feels like it. I am not the Lebron James of drumming, but if I knew a guy who dabbled in guitar and I knew sucked, I have no desire to jam with them. It's going to be shitshow, and for what? So I can take time out of my day? If someone legitimately can't play, my being a kick-ass drummer isn't going to help anything out. As for musicians not being able to recognize their place in the world, I disagree. Most good musicians know where they rank. The more they learn the more they know how much more they need to learn. But you can also know that once you reach a certain level, banging shit out with a beginner is a waste of your time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2017 8:57:55 PM EDT
[#40]
I’m on a jazz band that’s auditioning female singers. The leader sends them the music and a couple of weeks later they come in and sing. So far, they’ve been pretty bad.
The first one could swing, but couldn’t sing in tune. She was OK when she was holding a note, but the passing tones were off. Just careless, I guess. The second one was a classically trained singer. Her intonation was good, but she couldn’t swing at all. She doesn’t understand jazz phrasing and everything she did was stiff and “straight”. We know each other from past performances where she sang classical stuff and some ‘40s “Glenn Miller” type numbers with a trio. She called me the next day to ask what I thought about her audition and I agreed to meet for lunch. She wanted the honest truth and I gave it to her. She’s a good singer, but doesn’t have the experience and training for jazz. I gave her a couple of CDs to listen to; Emma Pask and an excellent local singer. We’ll meet again, I’m sure. My point: If someone needs help and is willing to listen and learn, then you ought to help them. If they suck and just want to mess around, don’t waste your time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2017 11:49:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m on a jazz band that’s auditioning female singers. The leader sends them the music and a couple of weeks later they come in and sing. So far, they’ve been pretty bad. The first one could swing, but couldn’t sing in tune. She was OK when she was holding a note, but the passing tones were off. Just careless, I guess. The second one was a classically trained singer. Her intonation was good, but she couldn’t swing at all. She doesn’t understand jazz phrasing and everything she did was stiff and “straight”. We know each other from past performances where she sang classical stuff and some ‘40s “Glenn Miller” type numbers with a trio. She called me the next day to ask what I thought about her audition and I agreed to meet for lunch. She wanted the honest truth and I gave it to her. She’s a good singer, but doesn’t have the experience and training for jazz. I gave her a couple of CDs to listen to; Emma Pask and an excellent local singer. We’ll meet again, I’m sure. My point: If someone needs help and is willing to listen and learn, then you ought to help them. If they suck and just want to mess around, don’t waste your time. Unless by "mess around" you mean something else
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2017 2:14:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Kill some beers and improv with the the guy. Maybe he can come up with a cool riff to work off of.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2017 9:03:19 AM EDT
[#43]
thawntex,
Thanks, but I’m not a pro and neither are the ladies auditioning. The jazz band is part of a community band and we almost never get paid for performing. In a good year, I make $400-500, which, since I drive about 4500 miles a year to rehearsals and gigs, just about pays for gas. I think my point is valid. Help people who want to improve and are willing to put in the time and effort to do it. In another community band (this county has at least 6) I sit next to another trombone player who’s still in high school. Frankly, he’s out of his depth, but he’s trying. At the last rehearsal, I told him, “You’re a good player. You read well and you play in tune, but there are a lot of subtleties that you aren’t hearing. Just keep listening to what the director and your section leader tells you and you’ll be fine.” Helping this kid is worth our time and effort. Every time I hear him, he gets better |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2017 1:24:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thawntex, Thanks, but I’m not a pro and neither are the ladies auditioning. The jazz band is part of a community band and we almost never get paid for performing. In a good year, I make $400-500, which, since I drive about 4500 miles a year to rehearsals and gigs, just about pays for gas. I think my point is valid. Help people who want to improve and are willing to put in the time and effort to do it. In another community band (this county has at least 6) I sit next to another trombone player who’s still in high school. Frankly, he’s out of his depth, but he’s trying. At the last rehearsal, I told him, “You’re a good player. You read well and you play in tune, but there are a lot of subtleties that you aren’t hearing. Just keep listening to what the director and your section leader tells you and you’ll be fine.” Helping this kid is worth our time and effort. Every time I hear him, he gets better Not trying to argue with you, but rather paying you a compliment. In my book, competency, skill, and the right attitude are just as important as income in the composition of a pro, and I suspect that you possess all of the former traits. Back to the topic at hand, I would never begrudge a man for avoiding certain activities with certain people in his spare time. It's the OP's life and I get it. I just think it's important to point out that we're talking about a relationship between friends here, a social dilemma that is completely divorced from any kind of structured band situation. It's a social etiquette topic, not a topic on how to manage an amateur musician in even the lowest level of the music scene. So that's the crux of it for me, anyway. Do I sit with my buddy in my living room for an hour, knowing that it will bring me zero satisfaction, musically speaking? Personally I lean towards yes, because I gain something of greater value, and later I can tell my buddy "see ya" without worrying that I have behaved arrogantly and hurt him in the feelz. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2017 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whether it be Lebron James or some D1 college player who was just not quite good enough to make the NBA, their skills are still far far far out of the league of someone who can barely make a layup and wants to play with them simply to say they played with them. What OP is describing is a friend who is terrible. He shouldn't have to humor him by playing with him whenever his buddy feels like it. I am not the Lebron James of drumming, but if I knew a guy who dabbled in guitar and I knew sucked, I have no desire to jam with them. It's going to be shitshow, and for what? So I can take time out of my day? If someone legitimately can't play, my being a kick-ass drummer isn't going to help anything out. As for musicians not being able to recognize their place in the world, I disagree. Most good musicians know where they rank. The more they learn the more they know how much more they need to learn. But you can also know that once you reach a certain level, banging shit out with a beginner is a waste of your time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For me, the Lebron James analogy doesn't hold water because he is an elite athete whose superior skills are indisputable. He doesn't have to build himself up in his own mind. He can rightly look at the world and say, "I'm Lebron James, bitch!" Again, this is just my personal attitude, but while I may possess musical skills, I am clearly not Joe Satriani. Therefore, I must be extremely cautious not to elevate myself mentally. I am not an elite musician whose superior skills are indisputable. The difference I perceive between athletes and musicians is that athletes, both amateur and professional, seem to have a more realistic view of their respective places in the world. Even the elites seem capable of deference toward the .01% who outrank them. Musicians, on the other hand, often give in to the temptation to place themselves among the ranks of the truly great. This isn't to say that many of these are without talent or skill, just that they are still among the bottom percentile, and don't really get it. What OP is describing is a friend who is terrible. He shouldn't have to humor him by playing with him whenever his buddy feels like it. I am not the Lebron James of drumming, but if I knew a guy who dabbled in guitar and I knew sucked, I have no desire to jam with them. It's going to be shitshow, and for what? So I can take time out of my day? If someone legitimately can't play, my being a kick-ass drummer isn't going to help anything out. As for musicians not being able to recognize their place in the world, I disagree. Most good musicians know where they rank. The more they learn the more they know how much more they need to learn. But you can also know that once you reach a certain level, banging shit out with a beginner is a waste of your time. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2017 1:49:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Had a coworker that I got along with, one day we learned we both enjoy the guitar - his father is a master woodworker who builds some rather beautiful guitars.
So he comes over one day for us to jam. Grab guitars, turn the amps on, and we trade riffs and whatnot for a while. He's competent, knows what notes go with what, etc. No issues with incongruity. Then I hand him some tablature for something I thought we should try. He looks at it like I just handed him a Chinese-language VCR repair manual. He's 32, playing for 20 years, and has never, ever - not ONCE- seen tablature. Had no idea what he was looking at. Doesn't understand 'traditional' music written out either. I couldn't get over it. He was completely illiterate to any form of music, yet didn't hit a single bad note the whole time we jammed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2017 9:52:29 AM EDT
[#47]
DangerJ,
About 4 years ago, I was in South Dakota – polka country. We went to a wedding party at a farm and they’d hired a polka band. Not my thing at all, but it was a blast watching the polka fans having fun. The free-flowing beer didn’t hurt, either. The band had been together for decades and didn’t use music. The fiddle player was 93 years old. He’d lost 3 fingers on his left hand when he was a kid and played the fiddle backwards. He was amazing. Never missed a note. I got to talking to him and told him I was a musician and played in a bunch of bands and orchestras back home. He said he couldn’t understand how anyone could read music. He’d tried to learn and it just didn’t click with him. He could play anything he heard, but didn’t know what to make of written music. He didn’t need to know. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2017 10:44:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Back in my garage band days, late 80s and early 90s, there seemed to always be a problem filling one slot in the band. Usually the one trying to fill that slot was just terrible. None of use were, or are now, professional musicians but we'd played long enough that we knew what we were doing. I can remember once in the early 90s when me a friend of mine that played guitar tried to get a band going. We auditioned this singer that certainly looked the part. He had the long hair and his own music stand but he was absolutely AWFUL. Was nowhere near on key and screeched like a goose that was being strangled. He was such a nice guy too so we just played on through a bunch of songs without saying anything. I can't remember what we told him after we were done, but I'm sure it was something like "we'll let you know". Then another guy shows up a week later that was a few pounds overweight and looked like he'd been out all night. Long frizzled hair, kind of a 70s look. And he was awesome. Just shows that you never know what you're gonna get.
Another time a guy I knew from school said he wanted to jam with us because he could play guitar. He was in the jazz band at school so I thought he might be okay. I was wrong. I couldn't recognize anything he was trying to play. He went through about four minutes of playing a song that I did not recognize and I asked him if he could play "Flying High Again" by Ozzy. He said "That's what that was". Ooops, my bad.  Wasn't even in the ballpark.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2017 12:45:48 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a coworker that I got along with, one day we learned we both enjoy the guitar - his father is a master woodworker who builds some rather beautiful guitars. So he comes over one day for us to jam. Grab guitars, turn the amps on, and we trade riffs and whatnot for a while. He's competent, knows what notes go with what, etc. No issues with incongruity. Then I hand him some tablature for something I thought we should try. He looks at it like I just handed him a Chinese-language VCR repair manual. He's 32, playing for 20 years, and has never, ever - not ONCE- seen tablature. Had no idea what he was looking at. Doesn't understand 'traditional' music written out either. I couldn't get over it. He was completely illiterate to any form of music, yet didn't hit a single bad note the whole time we jammed. When I was an aspiring young fiddle player, I met the immortal Johnny Gimble at a Western Swing Festival. We talked a bit about music and I asked him: "Mr. Gimble, do you read music?" With a toothy grin he smiled and replied in his typical wit: "Yeah...but not enough to hurt my playin'." |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2017 2:34:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm basically on board with you, and if I'm going to frame this as a etiquette thing I have to acknowledge that the OP's friend bears a certain responsibility as well, that is to have respect for the time the OP has put into his craft, and not insist on jamming if he isn't interested. My reply to the social etiquette aspect being, I could tell any of my actual friends that they suck without sugar coating it in the slightest. So it's kind of a moot point
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File