I have a Fender Rumble 100 with 2-10" speakers and I typically am playing with the tone knob on my bass (P-bass, mexican) really low.  Like maybe 3.  I mostly don't like hearing any treble, although every once in a while it's nice,  But not too often for me.  But in the sanctuary we're playing in, I have the EQ bass knob on the amp turned down to like 1/4 of the way.  Maybe a 1/3.  Otherwise things just start to shake from the low end.  I haven't tried this yet, but I'm wondering if I turn up the bass eq and turn up the tone knob if it will get rid of some of that high end treble from the bass.  I suppose I could turn down the highs on the EQ too.

I'm mainly curious as to how other people do it.  I hear a lot of stuff recorded where the the bass is just booming and not really and high end.  Every once in a while I'll hear a song where the bass player likes that higher end, but I'd say the majority falls to not hearing much of it.   Back maybe punk rock dudes used to get that treble up there.  But whatever.  Anybody else run the tone knob down so low on their bass or am I weird?  Last church I played at it was the same thing.  Totally different gear though.  An Ibanez bass with a Peavey with an 15 or 18. I forget which but I always had that bass guitar tone knob turned down low.  

Also, coming up in October, I need to play guitar because the guy that normally plays guitar is going to be gone.  I'm thinking about playing my acoustic guitar (ibanez) through my bass amp.  I've played a little bit through it with the guitar and it doesn't sound too bad.  In fact what's weird is that I feel like I need to turn the bass eq back up higher, since I have it down so low now.   Anybody ever play their guitar through a bass amp and like it and have it work?  I once knew a guy who did this back when we were younger playing rock music.  He seemed to like it that way and it sounded pretty good, although I think it lost some high end.  But I would think you could just EQ it how you want.  

The bass amp is big and I don't bring it home and toy with it.  I'll have to toy with it some at church but I figured I'd ask just to get some input.  Something to discuss.  I don't belong to any music forums, so....  you get to hear me wax on and on.  

I would appreciate any input you got.

Oh yeah, one more thing.  I tried to put a new pickguard on, which ended up not fitting.  I guess it was a knock off and not Fender.  Anyways, the tone knob started popping when I adjust it and it didn't do that before I tried the pickguard swap.  Should I be concerned?

Well, the solution to your problem is also the thing you are avoiding. Juxtaposition of low and high notes also achieves the booming sound.

Many bass players fall in to the trap of not using their highs. You have to remember that a good bass amps eq filters frequencies that bass actually use.


The acoustic guitar may or may not sound ok through the rumble. I personally don't like any form of guitar through a bass amp because the frequencies that they promote are not exactly guitar friendly.


Typically, in recordings of bass you feel the low end and hear the mids and highs. By rolling off the highs you are mimicking the bass typically found in rap songs.


The best thing you can do for your sound is to set all of your controls to 50 percent on your amp and bass and then tweak only the amp until you get close to the sound you want. From there you tweak your guitars eq to get the desired tone you want for the song.


Also, the booming sound you hear in a recording isn't really possible without a massive investment in equipment.

I don't think you're weird - different bass/mid/treble settings work differently from different pieces of gear and in different situations.  They're a compensator - something you can use to make things sound "right" when other variables change, or are out of your control.

I used radically different EQ settings depending on what kinds of material I was playing, and in how large a setting.  Competing with two very loud guitar amps (Sovtek Mig-60 and Mesa Dual Rectifier), I would "gut" the frequenicies that the guitars took over entirely and instead meld them to the frequencies the bass and snare drums would be heard in.  Here, I'm locking into the drum sound and not competing with the guitar sound.   On the other hand, I would use a LOT more mid-range and less on the top end in a less midrange-heavy setting like a blues band, where a sax and harmonica would be eating up those 2k+ frequencies, and the guitar sound was a lot more restrained.  Dumping the bass a bit would make for a bit more clarity as well, and I could play the percussive/rhythm sounds a lot more audibly.  When a song came up that was quieter and I didn't want to compete with intricate, quiet guitar lines, I could move the bass up a bit, lighten up on the attack, and get a nicely muffled 'thump' to blend with the bass drum again.  All of this is one good reason, though, I favor active multi-band EQs on bass.  I could set and forget the preamp settins, and tweak what needed to be tweaked on the basses themselves (American Deluxe Jazz Bass V and G&L L-2500) with no fiddling on the amp side itself.

The biggest problem with bass amps with guitar are the speakers - they have thick cones, are built for high excursion, and aren't voiced to bring out the frequencies that guitars work best in.  You can make it work in some cases, but it's hardly ideal...

Try flat wound strings or maybe some foam under the strings back just in front of the bridge. Both of these should help.

Regarding the highs, this is good advice.  The highs are actually what helps you cut through the mix so don't roll them off too much.

Also, playing closer to the neck will give you a deeper tone with more lows, the tip on using flat round strings is spot on also...

As far as your amp goes, my personal feeling is that ten inch speakers just don't belong on bass cabs and if you want a deeper, bassier tone you need to get rid of that.  The two amps I use when I want something small are either a SWR california blonde (with the horn basically turned off) or a bag end single 15" cabinet with a mesa walkabout.

Both the 12" and 15" speakers are capable of giving me a nice, well rounded tone.

The amp is under the piano at church because we are tucked into the corner off to the right, and behind the pulpit.   I leave the amp tone controls, bass-mid-treble, almost straight up at the halfway point.  The mid is slightly less around 11 or 11:30.

I use the preamp controls on the bass to adjust the tone.  You might want to look into adding a preamp on your MIM. Aguilar makes some nice ones.  I don't remember if you have a pbass or jazz model, but you can relocate the jack to the side body for room if it's a standard.

ETA: I am using an Ampeg combo.  All three amps are tucked under the piano, one bass and two guitars.  There is a guy that plays lead on a strat with a small amp next to him.  Probably a 8 or 10" fender champ... never looked.  He does not send a signal to the PA.

Too funny.  That's where I had mine.  But I actually moved up onto the stage now.  Before I was playing on the front row.  LOL.  I liked being able to hear the piano real well, but I couldn't hear the drums as well and that's where I need to be.  So that's why I moved.  Plus I've got to get used to being up there to help lead in October.   It's been so long since I got up in front of people and played and sang, it's going to take some time.

The 2-10" has plenty of bass for our room.   I have the bass eq turned down because it's so low end.   At least for our sanctuary and set up.   What I didn't realize is that maybe I should turn the bass eq back up, and turn the bass guitar tone knob back to more full and those highs might not stand out as much.   But yeah, I can see how a 15 or 18 would have more low end.

I know what kind of boom you are referring to and that's not what I meant.  I'm playing church songs, not rap songs and that's not the goal.  I guess my description of tone was not overly understandable.   I still hold to the fact that most recording artists I hear don't use a lot of higher end tones in their bass.  Either that or I just can't hear it.  My guess is we probably listen to different music, but I don't know.  I listen to mostly the music we play at church and my favorite bands are The Newsboys (before Michael Tate singing), Jars of Clay, Toby Mac (which can be rap, but more of a rarity for me to like that), and Switchfoot.  They're all basically Contemporary Christian.  I don't listen to a lot of other stuff.  I'm just not that into what's all out there.  That's not to say I don't enjoy some other stuff.  Oh yeah, my Son got me hooked on 21 Pilots.  I guess he raps too.  LOL.  Maybe I am listening to more rap than I think.  21 Pilots is not all rap though.  

A long time ago when I played in rock bands my favorite band was The Pixies.  And bands like that.  I did like the Beatles quite a bit and some other classic stuff.  But I was more towards the "alternative" side of music back then.  One of the gals I played with loved Nirvana and kind of got me hooked on them.  But I got sort sick of the Oh look how crazy I am persona a lot of bands projected back then.  Although I was kind of crazy myself.  LOL.  

I always run everything wide open on the guitar/bass and dial in my tone with the amp.

Okay, I had to go back a page to find your original post.  You're using a MIM pbass and an older Fender Rumble 100 2x10, both purchased used (which is what I do as well).

First, the pickguard for the pbass issue,  you need to match the factory origin and year to the pickguard you are buying.  Fender did not always use the same pickguard for all precision basses.  This includes not just factory to factory, but era to era from the same factory.

Second, you're likely will not be able to get the tone control using a standard pbass which not just passive, but only rolls the highs off which is determined by the cap value used. It cannot boost any frequencies. I have a pbass as well and I just cannot do that at my church with the acoustics there. I need to use the tone controls on the amp.  Hence, why I don't use the pbass there.

The bass I use is a Music Man bass with active preamp with bass, mid, and treble controls.  You should be able to get a 3 band control with two stacked pots which allows you to not relocate the jack.  I would not try to fit the preamp into the existing control cavity but route a battery box on the backside.  Templates are about $11 at stewmac, but you should be able to fashion a template yourself.

I had to edit this last recommendation because I'm confused as to what you are saying.  Rereading what you wrote in the first post, it sounds either:

1- The church ascoutics is boomy and you need to find that frequency and attenuate it.  My experience, these situations are usually around 600 to 800hz.  Your low mid control on the amp is likely the closet to this frequency, but the other question is the width. Maybe bring it a 10-band bass eq pedal to help find it?    

Check your Rumble 100 owner's manual (online at fender.com if you don't have it) and see what frequencies and widths are for each of the four tone controls on the amp.

2-  It maybe something simple as too much volume (or both this and #1), and you are trying to compensate by cutting bass thus boosting treble.

Maybe detail out the settings you are using and describe the sound for:

1-bass tone control
2-amp bass tone control
3-amp low-mid tone control
4-amp high-mid tone control
5-amp treble tone control.

Also describe your signal chain, particularly if you are using DI or mic to the house PA. If most of your bass volume is through the PA, well then, talk to the sound engineer.

This makes a lot of sense.  The guitarist uses a cheaper acoustic in an amp with like 2 8" in it and it has some low end, but overall sounds kind of trebly.  Not bad, just not overly warm.  And we have a piano.  Heck even the drummer's set up isn't really low range because he plays a cajone with a pedal hooked up to it.  His snare is nice and deep but I think the cajone probably leans more towards the mids and highs.  

 

That's what I used to do back in the day.  I played guitar more than bass though.  But now I can't remember what I'd normally do on the bass.  I don't think I had the tone knob turned down at all.

Well like I said, we might be either listening to different music, or I'm not hearing it.  I do hear it every once in a while, but not a whole lot.  Barely ever distortion with the bands we listen to.  Almost never.  I think I might know 1 Newsboys song that they have distortion on the bass.  And it's an older one.  

Here, I'll post a song, you tell me what you think.  Or maybe two.  But we can talk about what you're hearing and if it's different than me.  This song I actually hear the bass somewhat trebly and strangely enough lower in volume in the verses.  Which is something I'm not sure I hear very often either.  And then during the chorus it pretty much gets louder and I don't hear any highs in it.  But maybe you can tell me if you're hearing something different.  

switchfootfloat

I apologize for posting it twice.  I posted this song in another thread and I just like this song.  But I like that whole album.  

Could also be that I never listen to recordings through super high end systems.  Most of the time, my car is the main place.  Or on the computer.  And if I want to hear something good, I put the headphones on.

If you just let that youtube play it should go to the next song being "Where the light shines through".  And on that one, I don't hear any high end on the bass.  I think it's a great sound.  That's what I like to hear.  I don't see how you get a sound like that without taking the high end off either the amp or the bass.  Well I'm sure they're using really good stuff.   I see him toting Fender's in the video but not really sure of his amp set up.  Which is a moot point because I'm not going out and buying exactly what they have.

Yeah I don't think the amp is bad.  I think I just don't like hearing the highs at all.  Even when I was at the store and trying out all the amps I'd right away put the tone knob down.  

I think what I really need to is sit down and turn the tone knob up and see if I can get a sound I like by adjusting the amp.

It seems like most of you are saying that you don't ever turn down the tone knob on a bass.  Eh?  

I keep the EQ on my bass flat, get my tone from the amp adjustments.  I rarely touch the EQ on my bass.

Ever look into multiband compressors?

No.  About the extent I have with it is I watched this video of this girl that plays a bunch of funk songs on bass.  She's playing along with the song and you can sometimes see the rig she is playing thorugh and it looked like it had a few boxes that I had no clue what they were.  When I first started playing guitar a long time ago and playing in bands, I started down the road of an equipment junkie.  I didn't get very far into that before I just forsaked it all and kept it simple.  I preferred it that way.  I had a few pedals and this digital effex board that was cool, but seemed like it just made things overly complicated.  For this song I'm going to pick sound 178 out of 200.  Too much dorking around for me.  The guitar amp I came to use the most was a classic 50.  No affects.  Just used the clean and the distortion channel.  Yeah, boring I guess.  LOL.  I had a wah pedal for a while but I borrowed it to a friend who used it more than I did and I never got it back. LOL.

Aren't you fancy.  Having an EQ on your Bass.    I just have a tone knob and a volume.  And pickups that don't need batteries.  

 
I don't think you're catching what I'm saying.






The bass tones you are after that you hear on albums is much more than bsss>amp>mic. In fact, there's most likely no amp involved. In fact, it's most likely 8 tracks worth of different instruments or effects that get that sound.






Even if you think you aren't hearing it, there's distortion on that bass in about 99 percent of applications. There's also a piano doubling the low notes, a synth of some kind also doubling it, it's been reamped to a guitar amp (probably an orange or vox of some kind) and,  finally, the pure bass input signal is run dry by itself along with various plugins to give the fullness and low end.






Nearly none of what you hear in modern music, especially the types you've been talking about, is achieved with a bass and an amp.






For an idea, Justin Timberlakes bass player runs his bass through three different bass amps, two guitar amps, a computer, and a keyboard amp, all of which are running nearly 100 percent of the time.






If you listen to early blues albums versus modern blues albums you'll begin to understand the different ways that bass playing on almost all projects is really a production and not playing.






I'm trying to tell you this because I went down the same road you did but for a different sound and it's just not happening without about $10,000 worth of equipment. I ended up spending about $5,000 on my bass rig and it's close enough to there for live play but it's a massive pain in the ass to set up.






Which is why I only take well paying bass gigs now.



 


ETA: I do a lot of mixing for my bands and others. There is a ton going on in bass tones on albums that you don't really hear unless you know what to listen to. When I get out of the shower I'll post a video on what I'm talking about.



Here's a quick one that shows what some very simple EQ does to the presence of the bass when you add highs in.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmTYjQLz5Zc



This is like... step one to getting the sound you hear on those albums.

I'll have to take your word for it that that's what "they" do.  

I'm pretty sure that people I like listening to don't use that much stuff live.  I'm not sure what all the sound guy will do to a bass in the house speakers, but I watched on guy the other day on a youtube video from a band that I like.  Chris Tomlin.  And live he just uses his bass and an amp.  And a tuning pedal.  He uses an Ampeg Head and cabinet.  An old head.  I think it was made in 69 in the USA.  I think it was somewhere in Pennsylvania it was made.  Anyways....  His set up is way less complicated than what you are saying.  But that was live.  He didn't talk about recording.  

I know this for sure, I personally probably won't go down the road of throwing gear at my tone.  Because I don't have that kind of money.  And secondly, I actually don't mind the sound I'm getting at present.  I might want to mess with it some and see what I come up with.   My purpose to my thread was to compare what I'm doing to what other guys are doing to remain open and teachable.   And get ideas about if there are ways to improve. But there's no way I'm spending 5k-10K on a bass amp set up to play for my church.  I get a lot of really great feedback from people that the bass has added a lot to the music and they enjoy it. (Nobody was playing bass previously.  Our church has been kind of undergoing a change in the music over the last year and a half with a new music leader and more contemporary music.)  But like I said, I'd like to constantly improve.    

I already posted this vid in another thread, but this is the one I was talking about:

chris tomlin bass players gear

I actually understood some of what that sound guy was saying or doing, but I'm not sound engineer at all.  I get what he was saying about competing frequencies in the mix with vocals and such and I guess you could apply that to the instruments.  

I figured out that a big part of my issue is that I play with a pick.    I started as a guitarist and I never feel that comfortable playing with my fingers.  And the pick really bumps up the treble when you pluck the strings.  And that's what I don't like.  When I do play with my finger I can see why I wouldn't need to turn down the tone knob as much.  I've been trying to futz with my sound every week I play but I still haven't found the sound I really like.  Plus I think I have too much amp for our church.  I might try to find something smaller.  I have it 1/4 of the way up and I'm playing on 5-6 on the volume knob at times.  And if I go higher they're telling me to turn down.  So.....  I have the bass on the EQ cranked down because it's too much for the room.  I think I need to try and turn the bass on the EQ back up and turn the volume down on the amp.  But if I go much lower, it doesn't even register.  

Anybody have any smaller amps they really like.  There's got to be something inbetween a practice amp and the bigger ones that will fit the bill.  I should've sprung for the new Ampeg 12"er.

If I remember the Rumble 100 2x10 has a tweeter horn. Turn if off or bypass it, that will help lose some of the highs.  What kind of strings are you using? That can make a huge difference in tone (stainless steel or nickel, flat wound, round wound, gauge, etc...).  Pick up height - closer to the strings = stronger response.  Technique - You posted that you are using a pick. Maybe try playing with your fingers, and remember how hard you pluck/strum the strings also plays a part.  Depending on where you play the string (close to the neck, over the pickup, close to the bridge) you will have a differences in tone.

10's are fine for bass (I prefer them over 12's or 15's).  I usually run my basses wide open (after I've set them up the way I like) then adjust tones with the amp controls and playing technique (and of course, a few effects pedals here and there, depending on what song I'm playing).  

As for playing guitar through a bass amp? If it's a bass head + guitar cab, you can get some really good stuff out of it, just have to do some tweaking.  If it's bass head + bass cab, it will do if that is what you have, but it might not be quite what you want (tends to get boomy, overall sound can be a bit dark).

Hopefully this helps.

My amps are very responsive to changes in volume/tone from my guitars... might be the amps or p-ups we use, but I rarely run my basses/guitars dimed.

The only time I know I dime my instruments is playing really high gain and looking for just a bit more.

So how far down do you go at times?  I'm like on 3 with the bass to avoid the twang.  LOL.

My Jazz Bass doesn't have numbers on the plate... I'd put the tone about 1/3rd up, volumes both a hair over half.  My main bass amp lately is a Traynor YBA-1 running through 2x 2x10's so it is a tight, focused sound.  I run Treble at 3, bass at 2 and Range Expander (kinda like gain) at 7.  Volume is usually around 9... but I run it through a Fryette Power Station 2 that I run about 1/4 up on volume so it isn't stupid loud like if I were to not have the PS2 running.

Guitars, I tend to have volume and tone around 6 and go up/down as needed.  Fender Amps get the "magic 7" pretty much across the board, Marshalls get Bass and Mids cranked, Treble cut to about 4 and Presence on 1.

You just totally relieved me.  I thought I was nuts for running the tone knob so low but it sounds so much better to my ears (bass).   And yeah, I'm playing through 2 10's.

They're all 'adjust to taste' type things... no set rules.

But playing bass with a pick (like I tend to lately for some reason) through 10" speakers I found I turned a lot of stuff way down as the sound got really focus and tight and sounded better when I rolled stuff back.

Yep.  I agree.  I really don't like any treble in my bass.  Although sometimes it gets a little lost or vague when the guitarist I play with is kind of trebly and the drummer's bass drum is a cajone with a pedal.  It's not really projecting a lot of low bass tones.  So sometimes I let a little treble in and it feels like it sort of mixes better with them.

I wonder if I could unhook one of my 10" speakers.  Because I have to turn the amp down so far now.  That would possibly allow me to turn up the bass and the volume and not overpower everything.  Hmmmmmmmmm

1st:  Check impedance Ohm output on your amp... if you disconnect a speaker, you change the load and can damage your amp pretty quickly.  Some are more durable to changes in load than others.
2nd:  Even if you go from a 4x12" to a 1x12" using the same amp you don't lose a ton of decibels at your ear... you will have some volume reduction, but not a world changing reduction.

Yeah, I should've went with a smaller amp to begin with.  I probably should've got that new ampeg with the 1 - 12"er or 1 -10"er.   I was trying to buy used and there was an acoustic 20 watter, but I was worried it would be enough.  Even that one probably would've been fine.  LOL.  I gotta see how low I actually can go on my amp.  I probably could still go down some a little and it still sound like it's on.  hehehehehe  I don't have it at home so I don't get a lot of time to spend with it.  It's at church.  Too big to haul back and forth every weekend.

I did email Fender to get their input on the question.  Haven't heard back yet.

I played the acoustic guitar in church last Sunday because the guitarist / leader guy was gone and they didn't want me to just play bass with the piano.  They'd rather have just guitar and piano and drums.  And singing.  I could go either way on that one, but anyways....  

I have to admit, the acoustic sounds pretty good through that amp.  I'm not sure an electric would sound all that great, but I like the way the acoustic sounds.  I think it' sounds better than the cheap little amp the leader guy uses.  I forget the brand name but I don't think it was very expensive and it has 2 8" speakers in it.  Or 5'ers, I don't know.   Not like I totally hate that thing either.  It's just to project a bit of the guitar sound for the stage.