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Posted: 7/9/2015 11:41:54 PM EDT

I tuned my guitar and then checked each fret up the strings. All of the fretted notes are about 15 to 20 cents sharp.

Any idea why, and how to fix it?

For those interested, it's an acoustic-electric Washburn with d'addario 11's (EXP26).

Posted: 7/9/2015 11:45:02 PM EDT

[#1]

I'm no luthier, but that sounds like a problem with the nut. I would take it to somebody to have it looked at. Could be an easy fix.

Posted: 7/10/2015 12:21:11 AM EDT

[#2]

if your action is really high and you are fretting the strings down to the fretboard
you are going to be a bit sharp on the notes compared to open string tuning.

Intonation is checked at the 12th fret not every fret up the board and with most acoustics

can only be changed with a compensated saddle or a compensated knut or different string gauges.

Posted: 7/10/2015 1:30:03 AM EDT

[#3]

It should be dead on at the 12th fret. That said, if you are switching around string gauges that may have an effect on the overall intonation down the fretboard. On a regular acoustic, doing basic chord work, I would imagine that the impact during play would be minimal from a gauge change.

Posted: 7/10/2015 1:57:22 AM EDT

[#4]

Is there a bubble in the top (a warping of the top wood behind the bridge)? If so, that may be part of the problem, because it raises the bridge. Too light of strings can also throw things out of whack, since most acoustics are designed to use 13s.

Posted: 7/12/2015 1:40:48 PM EDT

[#5]

Thanks guys.

I sat down with the guitar today and checked some of the things you mentioned.

No bubble or warping noticed in the top.

The strings are sharp on the 12th fret on most. I tried playing notes as light as possible while still getting a good sound. It did bring the note closer to being in-tune. I don't know where I should make the adjustment, at the saddle or the nut.

E is 10 cents sharp at 12th
A is 20 cents sharp at 12th
D is 10 cents sharp at 12th
G is 20 cents sharp at 12th
B is 20 cents sharp at 12th
E is 10 cents sharp at 12th

I check each string at each 1/2 step till 12th. Most are in-tune, some are 10 to 20 cents sharp, and a few actually look 10 to 20 cents flat. You're right that the sound isn't "off" for most of my playing. I'm a perfectionist though, and interested in lutherie. Any advice on things that might help are appreciated. (Although I am sticking to the coated 11's)

Posted: 7/12/2015 2:12:04 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Thanks guys.

I sat down with the guitar today and checked some of the things you mentioned.

No bubble or warping noticed in the top.

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/ajroyer/media/20150712_120417_zpsnrvnn1qc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/ajroyer/20150712_120417_zpsnrvnn1qc.jpg</a>

The strings are sharp on the 12th fret on most. I tried playing notes as light as possible while still getting a good sound. It did bring the note closer to being in-tune. I don't know where I should make the adjustment, at the saddle or the nut.

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/ajroyer/media/20150712_120526_zpszur9ndux.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/ajroyer/20150712_120526_zpszur9ndux.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/ajroyer/media/20150712_120515_zpsy6isgm0r.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k637/ajroyer/20150712_120515_zpsy6isgm0r.jpg</a>

E is 10 cents sharp at 12th
A is 20 cents sharp at 12th
D is 10 cents sharp at 12th
G is 20 cents sharp at 12th
B is 20 cents sharp at 12th
E is 10 cents sharp at 12th

I check each string at each 1/2 step till 12th. Most are in-tune, some are 10 to 20 cents sharp, and a few actually look 10 to 20 cents flat. You're right that the sound isn't "off" for most of my playing. I'm a perfectionist though, and interested in lutherie. Any advice on things that might help are appreciated. (Although I am sticking to the coated 11's)

View Quote

They are only slightly sharp, and it seems pretty consistent. I would bet its from using the improper gauge strings. I would just leave it.

Posted: 7/12/2015 3:58:39 PM EDT

[#7]

There is no such a thing as perfect intonation up and down the fretboard. Everything is a compromise and dependent on lots of variables. That is why intonation is set at the 12th fret or the first octave on a guitar it. When your open strings are the same on the 12th fret the middle ground won't be off enough to matter.

Posted: 7/12/2015 6:55:51 PM EDT

[#8]

I was hoping there might be some magic formula to shave down the nut and saddle for a perfect distance from the frets, maybe even replace some frets to correct?

I have the same issues on my Alvarez backpack guitar, and I have noticed being a little sharp on my ukuleles too. I just checked them and they run about 20 cents at the 12th fret too. I admit that I did sand the saddles on the ukes just a little bit to bring the strings a little closer to the fret board and make them more level.

Posted: 7/12/2015 9:08:27 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was hoping there might be some magic formula to shave down the nut and saddle for a perfect distance from the frets, maybe even replace some frets to correct?

I have the same issues on my Alvarez backpack guitar, and I have noticed being a little sharp on my ukuleles too. I just checked them and they run about 20 cents at the 12th fret too. I admit that I did sand the saddles on the ukes just a little bit to bring the strings a little closer to the fret board and make them more level.

View Quote

You do realize they aren't supposed to be level right? They should follow the radius, or curvature, of the fretboard, so the center strings will be higher, as that is the peak of the fretboard radius. Also, replacing frets would just put a new fret in the exact same place as an old one. I'm not sure how that would help intonation.

What can be measure has been measured, such as the distance between the nut, bridge, and each fret. Like I said before, at one time under certain conditions, the intonation was probably perfect. As the conditions change, so does the instrument. Heat, humidity, string construction, string gauge, string pressure, truss adjustment, and more all will slightly effect the intonation. On electrics it can be really easy to correct. Acoustics, sometimes not so much. I they are only slightly off I would leave it alone.

Posted: 7/12/2015 9:09:05 PM EDT

[#10]

Oh, you can take the saddle out of the bridge and gradually sand it down until you get it just right. Luthiers do it all the time, but you may have to do a truss rod adjustment and shim the nut to get things right afterwords.

But that won't have much effect on intonation. To really effect intonation, you either have to adjust the distance between the nut and the bridge (pretty much impossible in this case, yeah, you can buy saddles that are compensated, but they only do so much and they aren't adjustable), or change string gauges (in this case you will need bigger strings).

Posted: 7/12/2015 11:18:32 PM EDT

[#11]

Strings are too high and/or short; lighter strings want the string longer.
A loose fitting saddle can lean forward, shortening the string.
Height could just be a truss rod adjustment; too much bow.

How are you checking?
What kind of tuner?
Everything in tune to A at 440?
12th fret harmonic to 12th fretted note?
Checking position duplicates playing position?

Posted: 7/13/2015 1:17:35 AM EDT

[#12]

Unless you're playing slide, the action on those strings may be a little too high.

YMMV.

Posted: 7/13/2015 4:55:51 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Strings are too high and/or short; lighter strings want the string longer.
A loose fitting saddle can lean forward, shortening the string.
Height could just be a truss rod adjustment; too much bow.

How are you checking?
What kind of tuner?
Everything in tune to A at 440?
12th fret harmonic to 12th fretted note?
Checking position duplicates playing position?

View Quote

I am using a Korg Chromatic CA-1 set at A440. I have also checked against an awesome app that I use called SmartChord. I press down on the string in the middle of the fret, which is pretty much where I play. Where in the fret hasn't changed intonation, but the amount of pressure I use on the string does.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by harmonic vs fretted note. If you mean the same note at a different fret on a different string (e.g. 7th fret D to 12th fret A) then they are both sharp by about the same amount. Same 7th fret G to 12th fret D, 8th fret B to 12th fret G, 7th fret E to 12th fret B.

For now I guess I am not going to mess with perfecting it, and just play. It is a low price guitar, so I am happy with the playability and sound. Just thought I might be able to tweak it and make it a little better.

Posted: 7/13/2015 4:59:53 PM EDT

[#14]

If I tune the open strings about 10 cents low, the chords come in tune.... I can hear the difference in 10 cents, just not sure how I feel about it yet.

Posted: 7/13/2015 5:11:52 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

If I tune the open strings about 10 cents low, the chords come in tune.... I can hear the difference in 10 cents, just not sure how I feel about it yet.

View Quote

Must have a string action only a slide player could love.

Posted: 7/13/2015 5:58:49 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

I am using a Korg Chromatic CA-1 set at A440. I have also checked against an awesome app that I use called SmartChord. I press down on the string in the middle of the fret, which is pretty much where I play. Where in the fret hasn't changed intonation, but the amount of pressure I use on the string does.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by harmonic vs fretted note. If you mean the same note at a different fret on a different string (e.g. 7th fret D to 12th fret A) then they are both sharp by about the same amount. Same 7th fret G to 12th fret D, 8th fret B to 12th fret G, 7th fret E to 12th fret B.

For now I guess I am not going to mess with perfecting it, and just play. It is a low price guitar, so I am happy with the playability and sound. Just thought I might be able to tweak it and make it a little better.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Strings are too high and/or short; lighter strings want the string longer.
A loose fitting saddle can lean forward, shortening the string.
Height could just be a truss rod adjustment; too much bow.

How are you checking?
What kind of tuner?
Everything in tune to A at 440?
12th fret harmonic to 12th fretted note?
Checking position duplicates playing position?

I am using a Korg Chromatic CA-1 set at A440. I have also checked against an awesome app that I use called SmartChord. I press down on the string in the middle of the fret, which is pretty much where I play. Where in the fret hasn't changed intonation, but the amount of pressure I use on the string does.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by harmonic vs fretted note. If you mean the same note at a different fret on a different string (e.g. 7th fret D to 12th fret A) then they are both sharp by about the same amount. Same 7th fret G to 12th fret D, 8th fret B to 12th fret G, 7th fret E to 12th fret B.

For now I guess I am not going to mess with perfecting it, and just play. It is a low price guitar, so I am happy with the playability and sound. Just thought I might be able to tweak it and make it a little better.

You say you're 10 cents sharp at the 12th fret; what are you comparing this to? Open string or 12th fret harmonic?

Posted: 7/13/2015 6:30:11 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

You say you're 10 cents sharp at the 12th fret; what are you comparing this to? Open string or 12th fret harmonic?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Strings are too high and/or short; lighter strings want the string longer.
A loose fitting saddle can lean forward, shortening the string.
Height could just be a truss rod adjustment; too much bow.

How are you checking?
What kind of tuner?
Everything in tune to A at 440?
12th fret harmonic to 12th fretted note?
Checking position duplicates playing position?

I am using a Korg Chromatic CA-1 set at A440. I have also checked against an awesome app that I use called SmartChord. I press down on the string in the middle of the fret, which is pretty much where I play. Where in the fret hasn't changed intonation, but the amount of pressure I use on the string does.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by harmonic vs fretted note. If you mean the same note at a different fret on a different string (e.g. 7th fret D to 12th fret A) then they are both sharp by about the same amount. Same 7th fret G to 12th fret D, 8th fret B to 12th fret G, 7th fret E to 12th fret B.

For now I guess I am not going to mess with perfecting it, and just play. It is a low price guitar, so I am happy with the playability and sound. Just thought I might be able to tweak it and make it a little better.

You say you're 10 cents sharp at the 12th fret; what are you comparing this to? Open string or 12th fret harmonic?

When the open string is perfectly tuned, the 12th fret is sharp.