I bought a decent 5-piece drumset (1 x kick, 2 x toms, 1 x floor tom, 1 x snare) for a pretty good price.





My question is: "Should I buy cymbals now?  Or before i spend the money, should I figure out whether I can actually play the drums, working on developing my rhythm before trying to go all Keith Moon on the set?





If the answer is "Yes, of course you need cymbals!" then what should I buy?





I'm price conscious, and don't want to spend a bunch of money on a bunch of cymbals.  What are the must have(s) for rock drumming? Crash, ride, hi-hat, other(s)?

 

I had zildian growing up.  A basic high hat(hi-hat?) would suffice until you know what you are doing

I don't know your finicial situation but you can drop a fortune on cymbals. Now they do have pretty good resale value of you get a decent set. I would recommend starting with something cheaper. Your gunna need IMO atleast a set of hi hats,a ride and a crash of some sort. My very first set I bought  on my own I picked up some cheap zildjan "zxt" and "zbt". It was like $150 at the Time. While I wouldn't reccommend them for the studio. It is something you can practice with untill you decide if you want to continue playing.

You need some cymbals, get a cheap Zildjian ZBT set or you can even pick and choose which ZBT cymbals you want.

That way you're not destroying the good (hi-end) "tier 1" cymbals before you learn how to hit them correctly.

To start out you only need a pair of hi-hats, a crash and a ride. Though I prefer two crashes.

You need cymbals.  Buy cheap shit tho, or preferably used shit, because as you don't know what you are doing, you will be breaking them often.

Really, you're not gonna be playing much of anything without at least a ride or a hi-hat.  In order to be playing basic useable beats (rock beats, country, whatever) you are gonna need at least a hi-hat or ride.  Realistically, you can get away with a hi-hat, ride and a crash and be able to play a ton of shit.

They sell starter packs, or again, cruise ebay or go to the local guitar center and hope for used stuff.

Also, buy cheap stands.  Once you figure out if you're gonna stick with it you can buy nice stuff.

But really, the sooner you learn how to properly strike your cymbals so you aren't breaking them constantly, the happier your wallet will be.  Oh, and contrary to what you might think...thinner cymbals tend to last longer than thicker ones (except for rides...who breaks rides???)  Thinner cymbals tend to flex a lot more, and therefore tend to crack less.

Granted, I play a monster kit, but I have probably about $4000 worth of cymbals on my kit right now.  Imagine how salty I'd be if I had to replace them regularly.  I learned how to properly play my cymbals looong ago, and my wallet and my collection is much happier for it.

Sounds like cymbals are on the menu.



Thanks for the advice.

Every time I look at Craigslist, there are gobs of cheap crappy cymbals for, well, cheap.

If you look long enough you will find good deals on high end cymbals.  My son's kit is outfitted w/ Zildjian A's and Sabian AA's none of which we paid more than $75 for an individual cymbal.  It just took me two years to find Hi-hats, 16" & 18" crashes, 20" ride, and 18" china.

Hi-hats and a ride are all you really need to start but a crash gives you just a little more versatility.  The best thing I can suggest is to invest in lessons.  My son went from just making noise to playing simple songs in just a few lessons.  Lessons give you a pathway to rapid improvement.

Very true, but if you're starting out and aren't sure, not so great cymbals for $20 each are a wiser decision. Then if you decide to stick with it, yeah, get the higher end stuff.

Very true.  My son played for 18 months before I started scouring CL for deals.  I ended up upgrading drums at that time as well.  Darn this hobby is expensive!

If you look hard enough, you can get a hi-hat and a crash/ride.  A crash ride is what it sounds like...a crashable ride.  Save you some money on that 3rd cymbal and stand.

And +1 on lessons.  Trust me, it's better to learn it up front than to spend years learning shit the wrong way only to go back and start over from square one.

People have noooooooo idea.

I've been playing guitar in bands for over 20 years now. It's funny.....I've seen drummers go from basic 5 piece kits to massive dual kick, 6 toms (or more), roto toms, two snares and more brass than Neil Pert to only revert back to a standard 5 piece kit, a double bass pedal, and sensible brass.

Along with what others said (lessons and proper stick control), I would say to get cymbals - ride, crash, and hi hat - off of the used market. From there, add a second crash. And then a brighter ride/crash ride (keeping your darker ride).....and then some better hats. And then upgrade hardware.

It's kind of like every other hobby you have, stick with the basics at first and then start buying stuff to improve upon you perceived lack. Don't just buy to buy.....it's expensive!!

Then again, I'm a guitarist/singer.....and I have more amps and guitars sitting around that haven't been used in years than I know what to do with. My wife says sell.....but I say....."But I need it!!"

Hi hats are at least a minimum requirement.

Buy them as you find/need them and slowly assembly your kit.  I browse Craiglist and Guitar Center used inventory often.

Small kits are for quitters

Or old guys that don't have roadies.

Many is the time I've loaded in the ginormo-kit and thought to myself, what the fuck am I doing?????  

Pics of Ginormo-Kit™?

 

LOL, how much you wanna bet that dude is playing straight 4/4 rock beats the entire time too.  

Are those cymbals just for show? You can't even reach them and they're so tiny.

Pointless info added below...
I bought a used set of Zildjian New Beat 14" Hi-Hats with a Tama Iron Cobra 200 stand.
I'm waiting on my snare stand and kick drum pedal to arrive.  Then I'll have the basic setup completed.  I didn't realize the Pearl Vision set I bought didn't come with a snare stand.  Oh well, it wasn't that expensive.  And I guess pedal choice is kind of personal, which is why my kit didn't come with one for the kick drum.
How carefully do you guys tune your toms?  I followed some instructions I found on YouTube, and got them sounding OK I think.  How important is it to you to carefully tune them?  Do you tune the top and bottom heads the same?  Do you use a tone generator to tune to specific notes?  The video mentioned that some drummers like to tune the three main toms to a major triad.  Do you do this?
Is there a 'generic' major scale that works for several different kinds of music?  For example, Pink Floyd does a lot of songs in G.  Would you tune to G-B-D?  How would that sound if you were drumming to AC/DC (most rock bands, actually,) who play most of their stuff in A-minor Pentatonic?  Because of that, would you tune to Cmajor instead (C-E-G)?
Bear with me if I made mistakes with the scales, I'm just learning this theory crap...
 

I am very careful about how I tune my toms.  Granted, I have high end drums and they are very easy to tune.  Often crappy low end toms are a nightmare to tune, or have a very limited tuning range.

There are two general schools of though with regards to pitch matching the top and bottom heads.  1)Match the pitch.  This gives you maximum resonance.  2) tune the bottom head lower or higher to get the pitch bend.  Some drummers love this method as it makes the pitch nosedive after striking.

Now, I do not like the pitch bend, so I match my heads.  I use a pitch pipe, and I tune my drums in thirds.  Now, my DW drums also have shells with natural pitches matched in thirds, and I tune each of my heads to match the natural pitch of the shell.  I use a pitch pipe to do it and they sound perfect.  But my drums have a very wide tuning range so I could tune them higher or lower to match the music key if it was so desired, but most music you don't have to do that so I just match the shells.

If you don't want to go to that extreme, it is generally favorable to at least tune the toms to some sort of interval.  3rds is most common, but you can tune to other intervals as well.

If you have a lower end kit, you might not be able to tune to the key that the rest of the band plays in.  If you have drums with a limited tuning range, or cheap drums that only have that one "sweet spot" it is better to have the toms sound good than to have them sound wonky or choked but in a pitch that matches the music.  I've seen plenty of drum kits with one or two toms that only sound right at a specific tuning, and you can't coax any good sound out of them outside of that.  Better to tune the kit around the problem tom if that is the case.

The last few years I have also taken the advice of a great drummer who recommends matching the resonant head weight to to batter head.  i.e. if you use a single ply 10 mil batter head, use a single ply 10 mil res head and not a thinner res head.  I actually play with Remo Emperor 2 ply heads on both my top and resonants sides  Again, pitch matched to the shell and each other, my kit is in perfect harmony.

Once you do it enough, you can get quite good at tuning.  Sad fact is, the vast majority of drummers cannot tune their kits to save their lives.  They learned one way to do it and that's what they have done forever.  Because of that they head into the studio and either their kit sounds bad, or they have to have a tech or engineer tune their kits for them.

 
Fuck, I didn't realize this was that kind of thread!  We need some WAILINSMASH up in here!!!










 

You'll want both types of circles to hit. The metal circles are just as important as the wooden ones.

Thanks for that detailed post!
 

NP.  Seriously, if you are gonna stick with the drums, learn to tune.  Go online and watch every tuning video you can get your hands on.  Drums are really unique, in that there isn't one accepted way to tune a drum...there are tons of methods, tricks, techniques.  Find one that works for you, but also learn some other ones because you never know when that will work out where your go-to method doesn't.

I've tuned drums with a drum dial measuring tension, I've done it with a pitch pipe, I've done it by feel, etc.  Pre-stretching the heads, overtuning the heads, doing neither and letting them seat in while playing.  Tuned all the tops first and then matched the resonants, tuned all the res first then matched the tops.  I've used heads from every company out there, used tape, moon gel, muffling rings...you name it I've tried it.  It really pays off in the long run to help you develop your sound.  And when you walk into a studio and start hitting your drums and the engineers face lights up because your kit is in tune, in 3rds, and sounding perfect, it puts you way ahead of the game.

Tuning guitars is science...there's really only a few ways to do it and not much getting around that.  Tuning drums is voodoo.  So many ways to do it, and a lot of professional drum teachers teach totally conflicting methods!  Voodoo.  Learn to be a witchdoctor.

just get a hihat

Thanks again!



 

Not trying to hijack, but I've been wanting to take up the drums also and am curious how to go about getting a decent set to start with. Don't have, nor do I want to drop a lot of coin on something I'm not sure of.

Am setting aside money for lessons and possible retainer for divorce attorney , but really don't know what brands are decent. At this stage, does it really matter? Garage sales and CL are likely going to be my sources.

I'm a guitar player, so I'm going off the opinions of drummers I know. So if I were to buy a kit, I would probably look for a good used PDP, which is DW's import brand.

If you can find a used Pacific CX or CXR, those are considered to be basically DW quality kits that were made in their mexico plant. The newer stuff is labeled pdp (as opposed to Pacific) and made in china, not that the made in china stuff is junk, but I've heard that there were some QC problems for a few years after they moved production from mexico to china. Great reviews on the newer kits though. When you say you don't wanna drop a lot of money on a kit, how much are you looking to spend total? Is that just for the shells or for shells and cymbals? Cheap shells can usually sound decent with proper heads, tuning, and muffling. Cheap cymbals will always sound like dropping a cookie sheet on the floor.

 

Ok, that's good to know. What I've been told is that PDP is the way to go if you're going for cheap imports, but I'll keep this in mind.

I'd like to try and be in for around $500ish unless I'd be buying crap. There are several fairly comet sets on CL from Yamaha, Pearl and Gretsch ranging from $300-600.

Post some of them up, can see if they are good deals or stuff to stay away from heh. For cymbals though you can't beat guitar center used on the sabian XS20. I'm a Paiste fanboy, but if I was working on a budget here's what I would go for cymbal wise:





















That ride is a bit heavier so not really good to use as another crash, but you get the idea.


Actually if this is anywhere near you I would go for this https://columbus.craigslist.org/msg/5185657548.html  PDP CX kit with crap cymbals and okay hardware. But it's everything you need to get started and see if you wanna upgrade the cymbals later.









 
 
 

Out of my range, but for comparison:https://dayton.craigslist.org/msg/5187441542.html

https://dayton.craigslist.org/msg/5186587133.html

https://dayton.craigslist.org/msg/5179992946.html

http://dayton.craigslist.org/msg/5185560767.html

I'd go for the Catalina Birch but see if you can talk em down to $500 or so, it's still a decent deal as is though. The Ride and hi hats alone would have cost between $700 to $900 for both new depending on the models. It has fairly new coated evans heads batter side, couldn't see the bass drum head but that has probably been swapped out too, so that's close to another $100 and will make the set sound much better over stock heads. The DW 7000 pedal has a kit DW sells that will basically turn it into a 5000.


The Yamaha would take another 200 in stands, cymbals, and pedals to make it playable. The pearl kit is a beginner kit with stock heads and beginner cymbals that will sound like a beginner kit with stock heads and beginner cymbals heh. Even if you can't talk them down the Gretsch is worth the $300 over the pearl in my opinion. Pro level cymbals and an "intermediate" level kit, and the intermediate kits of today sound as good if not better than the a lot of the pro level kits of the same wood type from 10 - 20 years ago. Also, if you decide drums aren't for you and want to sell the kit, you can sell the cymbals and the shells separately and make back what you paid into it if not more.


 

Count me as recommending a PDP.  I have one as my "live kit" and it is fantastic.  I also have a custom DW kit for studio work, so obviously I am a big DW guy.

But really, for your first kit, just get something in good shape off CL.  The Pearl Export is the best selling intro kit in the land, but it is pure garbage.  HOWEVER you can find a million of them easy, and your first kit you will beat the snot out of anyways until you learn how to do things correctly.  Normally I'm a buy once cry once kinda guy, but for drums it is OK to buy a crap set your first time out because you will be beating it until you know what you are doing, and you won't be able to make a good kit sound good for quite a while anyways.  So wait until you reach that level where you can really wring the sounds out of a good kit anyways to invest.

Thanks for the advice guys.