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Posted: 4/1/2017 6:58:27 PM EDT
Finally...

Reports to AOPA of high fees at a relatively small number of airports are not new, but the number of reports and cost of the reported fees has spiked significantly over the past year. Some 40 percent of the most egregious fees have come from locations where Signature Flight Support is the only FBO on the field.
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“It’s all about access to public places,” said AOPA President and CEO Mark Baker. “Pilots who don't want or need services should not be held prisoner on a public ramp. At many of these locations, there is no way to pass through a gate without going through an FBO lobby. We’re asking the FAA to look at giving GA pilots unfettered access between the ramp and the parking lot.”

Baker, and many of the commenters responding to AOPA’s request for more information, point out that most of the ramps in debate were built with federal tax dollars and then leased by an airport owner to the FBO. “Essentially the FBOs are a concessionaire. The problem is pilots don’t have a choice of purchasing services or not. They are charged just for showing up—held hostage, if you will,” said Baker.
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Baker met with Maria Sastre, Signature’s president and COO of global operations, in early March. At the meeting, Sastre reported that 95 percent of customers don’t pay the posted fuel price because they take advantage of fuel discount cards, discounts that are typically not available to small operators and individual owners. Sastre said the idea of providing free access to pilots not requiring services was not workable because it does not “fit our model.” The COO said the FBO has steep overhead in ramp equipment and facilities, including the requirement to offer well-appointed lobbies for customers in order to remain competitive.
View Quote
https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All-News/2017/March/30/AOPA-battling-excessive-FBO-fees?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=tts&utm_campaign=170330epilot

I know first-hand the level of pissed-off Trump has been with FBOs not wanting to offer him a fuel discount and charging excessive ramp prices. I love to see him sic the DOT on this.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 8:36:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Is this a Signature bashing thread?

I hated paying their damned fees, even though it was a company credit card, it still pissed me off.  I'll never take my airplane to one.
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 8:55:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this a Signature bashing thread?

I hated paying their damned fees, even though it was a company credit card, it still pissed me off.  I'll never take my airplane to one.
View Quote
Landmark bent my nose truss at RDU and Signature broke my fuel cap and allowed about a quart of water in the tank at KEYW, all for the convenience of paying them for their "service."
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 10:04:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Airports are in the business of making big money for their owners.   That's not you and me (the taxpayers). 
Link Posted: 4/1/2017 10:11:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Thankfully at my field, Signature has an FBO and so did Landmark.  When Signature bought Landmark, the airport wouldn't let them run both, so Ross Aviation came in.

Ross is pretty good.
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 8:25:45 AM EDT
[#5]
I have herd Signature referred to as the TAliban of FBO's.  I think there are few companies in this world I despise more and  I would like to see fail more than them.  It was a glorious day when they lost their contract at Charlotte.  I hope Trump jams them and "their business model" up.
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 10:32:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Atlantic at MTJ drug the wingtip on our King Air through a fence and hair-lipped the shit out of it.
It was out of service for almost four months.
Local shop couldn't fix it and the local DER wouldn't issue ferry permit unless Beech would furnish directions for temporary repair which they would not.
It was nonstop clusterfuck. Finnaly we employed some covert operators to liberate it!
I put 125 hours on our back up Baron and we had to dry lease other King Airs to get the job done.
It ended up costing their insurance company several pretty pennies!
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 12:25:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Finally...

Reports to AOPA of high fees at a relatively small number of airports are not new, but the number of reports and cost of the reported fees has spiked significantly over the past year. Some 40 percent of the most egregious fees have come from locations where Signature Flight Support is the only FBO on the field.
View Quote
“It’s all about access to public places,” said AOPA President and CEO Mark Baker. “Pilots who don't want or need services should not be held prisoner on a public ramp. At many of these locations, there is no way to pass through a gate without going through an FBO lobby. We’re asking the FAA to look at giving GA pilots unfettered access between the ramp and the parking lot.”

Baker, and many of the commenters responding to AOPA’s request for more information, point out that most of the ramps in debate were built with federal tax dollars and then leased by an airport owner to the FBO. “Essentially the FBOs are a concessionaire. The problem is pilots don’t have a choice of purchasing services or not. They are charged just for showing up—held hostage, if you will,” said Baker.
View Quote
Baker met with Maria Sastre, Signature’s president and COO of global operations, in early March. At the meeting, Sastre reported that 95 percent of customers don’t pay the posted fuel price because they take advantage of fuel discount cards, discounts that are typically not available to small operators and individual owners. Sastre said the idea of providing free access to pilots not requiring services was not workable because it does not “fit our model.” The COO said the FBO has steep overhead in ramp equipment and facilities, including the requirement to offer well-appointed lobbies for customers in order to remain competitive.
View Quote
https://www.aopa.org/News-and-Media/All-News/2017/March/30/AOPA-battling-excessive-FBO-fees?utm_source=ePilot&utm_medium=Content&utm_content=tts&utm_campaign=170330epilot

I know first-hand the level of pissed-off Trump has been with FBOs not wanting to offer him a fuel discount and charging excessive ramp prices. I love to see him sic the DOT on this.
View Quote


The federal funding / airport improvement program does pay for the runways, taxi ways and ramps and buildings, lighting nav aids and so on.
Public airports are run by city or state and submit for these grants. They are awarded under grant assurance conditions to promote competition of services provided by operators on the field giving no one a monopoly on services provided.
From a lease stand point for office and hanger and ramp per square foot, everyone pays the same, and they cannot deny a company a lease even if that service is already being provided on the field, that is all that can be controlled. I'm specifying fbo stuff here, among many other things required.
For a small mom and pop fbo to compete against the huge nation wide corporate facilities that have bulk supplier deals and discounts because of huge volumes it is nearly impossible. They can come in slash prices and take over, then the little guy cant afford to keep the doors open and folds up. When that happens, here comes the charges since there is no competitive businesses.
Our airport has walk thru gate and drive through gate to access the ramp, card key required. You can leave a deposit with the airport manager to get one, city controlled, that will get you to the ramp and t hangers. T hangers are through the city. The ramp space and tie downs areas are leased to 2 different fbo's on the field, I am part of one of them. And yes there are deals to be had with services rendered, hanger, fuel, maintenance. We don't smoke anyone on costs, we are big for a mom and pop (Its actually brothers and nephew) though. If your stopping by to eat at our resturant no ramp or tie down charge unless your staying over night is an example. There are lots of posts in this thread from pilots and non from an fbo side of the coin, so here is how it is, we have to pay the same as the other guy lease wise to be there, unless there is corruption in the airport management and city(we are constantly telling the city when the filters are due at the city owned and operated fuel farm because the city will not sign off on us putting in tanks we already own, can you say grant assurance violation?). Public airports are public airports, but cities are not always service providers so there is a company and you will have to pay for facility or even just area ( ramp, tie down) use.
Dose of reality, city employees aren't airplane people. I would rather an aviation business maintains the fuel farm(already gave an example on that) and makes sure there is no fod on the ramp and taxi ways. Do you think city employees will care that the public use ramp has no room left because no one parked with any consideration for anyone else?

Makes me think of campers parked at Wal-Mart instead of camp grounds.
This is not a fight for DOT or FAA they can't regulate a private company's prices. Only way to fight it is don't go to those places. Buy your gun from the mom n pop gunstore instead of Buds online.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 11:14:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Landmark bent my nose truss at RDU and Signature broke my fuel cap and allowed about a quart of water in the tank at KEYW, all for the convenience of paying them for their "service."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is this a Signature bashing thread?

I hated paying their damned fees, even though it was a company credit card, it still pissed me off.  I'll never take my airplane to one.
Landmark bent my nose truss at RDU and Signature broke my fuel cap and allowed about a quart of water in the tank at KEYW, all for the convenience of paying them for their "service."
Probably old fashioned but I was always present during fueling.  Especially Mooney fuel caps. Took two hand to close properly.
Linemen only used one because the other always held the fuel nozzle.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 11:45:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Probably old fashioned but I was always present during fueling.  Especially Mooney fuel caps. Took two hand to close properly.
Linemen only used one because the other always held the fuel nozzle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is this a Signature bashing thread?

I hated paying their damned fees, even though it was a company credit card, it still pissed me off.  I'll never take my airplane to one.
Landmark bent my nose truss at RDU and Signature broke my fuel cap and allowed about a quart of water in the tank at KEYW, all for the convenience of paying them for their "service."
Probably old fashioned but I was always present during fueling.  Especially Mooney fuel caps. Took two hand to close properly.
Linemen only used one because the other always held the fuel nozzle.
one of us are always present after a Fbo put several hundred gallons of avgas in a Learjet I was flying.
Link Posted: 4/4/2017 7:14:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


one of us are always present after a Fbo put several hundred gallons of avgas in a Learjet I was flying.
View Quote
At least you could burn it if you wanted to ,  unlike when the assholes filled a 680FP Aero-Commander I was flying with Jet-A, despite the fuel placards around the caps. Bastards didn't have a "Hoover nozzle" on their Jet-A hose either.

4 days of downtime while their mechanics drained and cleaned the fuel tanks and lines. .

Now, I ALWAYS stay with the plane until it's fueled.
Link Posted: 4/4/2017 8:41:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


At least you could burn it if you wanted to ,  unlike when the assholes filled a 680FP Aero-Commander I was flying with Jet-A, despite the fuel placards around the caps. Bastards didn't have a "Hoover nozzle" on their Jet-A hose either.

4 days of downtime while their mechanics drained and cleaned the fuel tanks and lines. .

Now, I ALWAYS stay with the plane until it's fueled.
View Quote
We adjusted the fuel computers and burned it (20 series lear) you could pour a couple of gallons of water in the fuel tank and it probably wouldn't even hiccup it burned so much fuel.
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