The REAL pilot shortage. The military is in damage control mode.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The REAL pilot shortage. The military is in damage control mode.

Posted: 3/30/2017 7:55:49 AM EDT

All the branches are short. We want out in record numbers, and many are going airline. The airlines are hiring, that is not debatable. The military struggles to get us flight hours to maintain proficiency, and then we get saddled by bullshit jobs to keep us busy.

CSPAN testimony

Posted: 3/30/2017 8:39:52 AM EDT

[#1]

Meh, we're probably looking at the last generation of manned aircraft, anyway. Next to lat for sure.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:07:13 AM EDT

[#2]

So am I going to get recalled back to AD?

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:25:24 AM EDT

[#3]

I'm 55, send to any jet school.

Meh, send me to any flight school.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:28:25 AM EDT

[#4]

Does that mean I can get in the Army WO pilot program at 41?

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:33:15 AM EDT

[#5]

The Army made a huge mistake not retraining all the 58 drivers and putting them into other aircraft. They held a board and only selected about half if I remember.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:38:18 AM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
The Army made a huge mistake not retraining all the 58 drivers and putting them into other aircraft. They held a board and only selected about half if I remember.

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Exactly. It was short sighted stupidity that is biting them in the ass.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:48:49 AM EDT

[#7]

The AF cut 201 pilots from AD in 2012.

Posted: 3/30/2017 12:11:38 PM EDT

[#8]

I'm 54 and very eager to make a major career change and get back to what I wanted to do out of college. Where do I sign?

Posted: 3/30/2017 1:18:42 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
The AF cut 201 pilots from AD in 2012.

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In 2014, I was offered the VSP of $158K to leave active duty. Eight months later, I was offered the pilot bonus of $125K to stay. Talk about personnel mismanagement.

Posted: 3/30/2017 8:26:54 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

In 2014, I was offered the VSP of $158K to leave active duty. Eight months later, I was offered the pilot bonus of $125K to stay. Talk about personnel mismanagement.

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If anyone ran their HR department as bad as the USAF does they would be run out of town on a rail...

Posted: 3/30/2017 9:24:18 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
Exactly. It was short sighted stupidity that is biting them in the ass.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
The Army made a huge mistake not retraining all the 58 drivers and putting them into other aircraft. They held a board and only selected about half if I remember.

Exactly. It was short sighted stupidity that is biting them in the ass.

And just think, the Army Two Star in charge of fixed wing aviation just created a fixed wing only and forever career track that will kick out 90% of its WO2's at the twelve year point. Just in time for them to go to the major airlines at 32-36 years old. Talk about mismanagement of criminal nature.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:49:28 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Exactly. It was short sighted stupidity that is biting them in the ass.

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The military operates for the future it is told to. Military was told to downsize so they did. Then they were told to never mind that, we want to expand a bit. You dont train extra people or buy extra equipment "just in case".

It's the same thing in military acquisition. You plan for reality as you know it now. Then congress or the White House changees reality(or your budget) and the road you started down is no longer the best option, but it takes more resources(that are not available) to change to the new best road.

The real problem lies in politicians changing the rules faster than anybody can react.

Posted: 3/30/2017 10:52:49 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
And just think, the Army Two Star in charge of fixed wing aviation just created a fixed wing only and forever career track that will kick out 90% of its WO2's at the twelve year point. Just in time for them to go to the major airlines at 32-36 years old. Talk about mismanagement of criminal nature.

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Army airplane ranks are terribly top heavy. W4 and W5 airplane guys are 2-5x over strength and dropping like flies. The future is bright for new FW w1/w2 in the army, tons of upward mobility.

Posted: 3/31/2017 12:29:20 AM EDT

[#14]

So what are the chances of me getting into a guard or reserve unit? I'm 30 and have an ATP (at a regional) and got a 79 on the SIFT exam.

Posted: 3/31/2017 7:12:54 AM EDT

[#15]

I'm 58 and in great shape, with a little bit less than 70 hours.
I'll do anything they tell me to, just let me fly something that I don't have to pay for.

And I'm not particular, props, jets, I don't care.

Posted: 3/31/2017 2:24:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm 58 and in great shape, with a little bit less than 70 hours.
I'll do anything they tell me to, just let me fly something that I don't have to pay for.

And I'm not particular, props, jets, I don't care.

View Quote

See, here's the kicker (speaking for AF and Navy/MC side of things)...there's no shortage of qualified applicants. Competition for the number of available training slots is as fierce as I've seen it in the last decade.

The shortage is with the senior captains/majors with a couple thousand hours and so much experience flying over Afghanistan/Iraq/anyothershitholeistan that they're tired of deploying. And can you blame them? I will literally make over double flying at an airline than I did as an O4 on active duty. I only work half the month. I get to sleep in my own bed every night. And, my fear of getting shot at has been highly decreased (though it's still there a little bit...I do live in Memphis).

Posted: 3/31/2017 4:28:49 PM EDT

[#17]

I have flight school classmates in other brigades who haven't made minimums for the last three years. Contrast that with the brigade I landed in and I made 100 hours at home in my last semi-annual period and that was a little below average for the company. The longer I'm in this job the longer I see it's just luck of the draw. Having said that if the trend is accurate when it comes time to make W3, my year group will just need to have a pulse and no pending serious adverse actions.

The problem is money and culture. I spend way too much time on additional duties which have absolutely nothing to do with flying but are required none the less and are bolstered by how good the boss looks on powerpoint during Command and Staff.

Posted: 3/31/2017 8:53:54 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

See, here's the kicker (speaking for AF and Navy/MC side of things)...there's no shortage of qualified applicants. Competition for the number of available training slots is as fierce as I've seen it in the last decade.

The shortage is with the senior captains/majors with a couple thousand hours and so much experience flying over Afghanistan/Iraq/anyothershitholeistan that they're tired of deploying. And can you blame them? I will literally make over double flying at an airline than I did as an O4 on active duty. I only work half the month. I get to sleep in my own bed every night. And, my fear of getting shot at has been highly decreased (though it's still there a little bit...I do live in Memphis).

View Quote

Spot on.

The old hands are leaving. I cant say i blame them. They did their job and did it well.

Posted: 3/31/2017 9:42:03 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Spot on.

The old hands are leaving. I cant say i blame them. They did their job and did it well.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

See, here's the kicker (speaking for AF and Navy/MC side of things)...there's no shortage of qualified applicants. Competition for the number of available training slots is as fierce as I've seen it in the last decade.

The shortage is with the senior captains/majors with a couple thousand hours and so much experience flying over Afghanistan/Iraq/anyothershitholeistan that they're tired of deploying. And can you blame them? I will literally make over double flying at an airline than I did as an O4 on active duty. I only work half the month. I get to sleep in my own bed every night. And, my fear of getting shot at has been highly decreased (though it's still there a little bit...I do live in Memphis).

Spot on.

The old hands are leaving. I cant say i blame them. They did their job and did it well.

We've had more people than I can count get picked up or interview with the majors. It's good money and their quality of life has gotten better. Why work 12-14hr days when you can do a lot less for a little (or a lot) more.

Posted: 3/31/2017 11:51:49 PM EDT

[#20]

This is not new . The military has done a poor job of managing pilots since Vietnam . Politics is a huge problem that goes unmentioned in the Air Force

Posted: 4/1/2017 6:14:43 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Meh, we're probably looking at the last generation of manned aircraft, anyway. Next to lat for sure.

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But guess what, those "unmanned" aircraft still require a pilot. Ask me how I know.

As mentioned, the issue is not recruiting kids to become pilots. The issue is keeping dudes who have reached the end of the commitment around the 12 year point.

It is a multi-faceted issue, but the major factors are pay, quality of life, and extraneous and unnecessary additional duties.

Posted: 4/2/2017 1:07:03 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have flight school classmates in other brigades who haven't made minimums for the last three years. Contrast that with the brigade I landed in and I made 100 hours at home in my last semi-annual period and that was a little below average for the company. The longer I'm in this job the longer I see it's just luck of the draw. Having said that if the trend is accurate when it comes time to make W3, my year group will just need to have a pulse and no pending serious adverse actions.

The problem is money and culture. I spend way too much time on additional duties which have absolutely nothing to do with flying but are required none the less and are bolstered by how good the boss looks on powerpoint during Command and Staff.

View Quote

This and the fact that Warrants are treated like overpaid E-4's is why I'm not likely to stay. I'm tired of doing the task of multiple support enlisted MOS's when I'm supposed to be a SME on the most complex and expensive piece of equipment the Army owns.

I've been treated very well (compared to stories I hear) and get lots of flight time at Bragg so in that regard I am not complaining. But the hours mostly ill-concieved AMR support that benefits neither the ground guys or the aviators. It's just to fill white space and hear rotors overhead.

The pay isn't even my problem with the job, it's that I am sick of having my time wasted with meaningless bullshit only to have senior Aviation leadership act like we should be happy just to fly helicopters. That's a fucking cop-out that doesn't address the fact that we will never be SME's unless I rob even more time from my family to study to that level, then we work in shitty, hand-me-down places, and continually have to perform tasks which should be performed by an MOS trained support person. This effects my maintainers as well, actually. They are running ragged as well.

I am having a harder and harder time encouraging anyone to go Aviation Warrant.

Posted: 4/2/2017 1:09:26 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

But guess what, those "unmanned" aircraft still require a pilot. Ask me how I know.

As mentioned, the issue is not recruiting kids to become pilots. The issue is keeping dudes who have reached the end of the commitment around the 12 year point.

It is a multi-faceted issue, but the major factors are pay, quality of life, and extraneous and unnecessary additional duties.

View Quote

This right here is where the Air Force really fucked up. Making those RPA positions Rated Officer pilots rather than enlisted operators with officer oversight like the Army does. When I was a TACP we had numerous ALO's get selected to go RPA rather than back to an F-16 or whatever. Fucking madness.

Posted: 4/2/2017 1:10:48 PM EDT

[#24]

Yea, what Romad99 said.

Posted: 4/2/2017 3:37:20 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

This and the fact that Warrants are treated like overpaid E-4's is why I'm not likely to stay. I'm tired of doing the task of multiple support enlisted MOS's when I'm supposed to be a SME on the most complex and expensive piece of equipment the Army owns.

I've been treated very well (compared to stories I hear) and get lots of flight time at Bragg so in that regard I am not complaining. But the hours mostly ill-concieved AMR support that benefits neither the ground guys or the aviators. It's just to fill white space and hear rotors overhead.

The pay isn't even my problem with the job, it's that I am sick of having my time wasted with meaningless bullshit only to have senior Aviation leadership act like we should be happy just to fly helicopters. That's a fucking cop-out that doesn't address the fact that we will never be SME's unless I rob even more time from my family to study to that level, then we work in shitty, hand-me-down places, and continually have to perform tasks which should be performed by an MOS trained support person. This effects my maintainers as well, actually. They are running ragged as well.

I am having a harder and harder time encouraging anyone to go Aviation Warrant.

View Quote

This is a really funny post... Change Army specific acronyms to USAF ones and it is still 100% true. Glad (not really) that the AF isn't the only one screwing it up...

Posted: 4/2/2017 3:51:39 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
This right here is where the Air Force really fucked up. Making those RPA positions Rated Officer pilots rather than enlisted operators with officer oversight like the Army does.

View Quote

Predators have to be manually flown for takeoff and landing(i.e.stick And rudder flown). This is why the AF has aviator uav operators. They are just recently adding auto takeoff/landing to predators.

Gray Eagles (army predator) are always automatic takeoff/landing so non aviators can easily operate it.

The AF global Hawks have automatic takeoff/landing and the AF has said they will have enlisted operators for it.

Posted: 4/2/2017 3:58:43 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yea, what Romad99 said.

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There's plenty of flying jobs in the army (and all branches) where none of that is true. You'll never find them crying to strangers on the Internet though!

Posted: 4/2/2017 10:09:35 PM EDT

[#28]

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Quoted:

There's plenty of flying jobs in the army (and all branches) where none of that is true. You'll never find them crying to strangers on the Internet though!

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I doubt those jobs are in the regular Army.

Posted: 4/6/2017 8:39:23 PM EDT

[#29]

...Well, the AF paid a bunch of them to leave a couple years ago....Now they don't have enough. This is my surprised face

Let pilots focus on flying, and I'd bet you could keep them around longer.

Posted: 4/6/2017 8:45:26 PM EDT

[#30]

Thanks Obama.

The list of things not currently fucked up in the military is a lot shorter.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The REAL pilot shortage. The military is in damage control mode.

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