I want to get my complex and HP endorsements.  School has a 172RG and a 182.  So, I'm going to do most of my learning in the 172RG since it's considerably cheaper and then the 182 is just a quick flight, since the controls are all the same.  

Anybody flown the RG?  Any tips or anything?

I was completely underwhelmed by the Cutlass RG. Speeds were hardly different from that of a regular 172. The one my school had shook and vibrated like it was parked on a shaker table.

I guess my only advice is to not get your hopes up for how awesome it might be. That and don't forget to put the gear down.

Don't forget the gear?

Watch a video of the gear going up and down. Vomit. Buy a Bonanza.

Before you turn base, look over at the CFI and command him to "deploy the runway noise suppressors"?

Before you take off, key the mike and say "Man in the bird to the man in the tower, you give me the word and I'll give her the power"?

I got nuthin'.

If you're ever in a situation where the gear won't lock down climb to altitude and spin it.

I wonder if you flew the same one my school has?  

No one ever rents it.  I looked at the log and it's flown about 5 hours in the last 2 months.  We went and checked it out.  I would not take someone in that plane for their first ever time flying.  It's straight out of 1979.  Colors are awful.  Has a cessna 300 nav-o-matic.  ADF (still operating), old Cessna radio.  And then a Garmin 430.    It's well 'loved'.

And, I have watched the gear go up and down.  It looks like a dying cricket.

Every one of my students could do a partial panel NBD approach consistently, before being signed off for an instrument checkride.

Of course that was when I was still actively teaching.... 2003-2007.

G- Gear down and locked
U- Undercarriage down and locked
M- Make sure the gear is down and locked
P- Put the landing gear down

You can never be to paranoid when it comes to checking that the landing gear is down.

LOL, CFI told me that one.

I got my CFI in one. Downwind, verify gear. Base, verify gear. Final, verify gear.

Don't forget the gear.

Don't want to owe tower a beer

Chair fly, chair fly, chair fly.

Study the checklists ahead of time and know manifold and rpm settings for that plane (each phase of flight) before you step in. Chair fly changes of each phase of flight.

All this will save time and money and it'll be an easy endorsement and easy transition into a faster plane.

I love the Gutless.  Did all of my commercial and most of my CFI in one

Drop your gear early and check it often. On the mechanical gear Mooneys, there's a "fingernail check" that you do with the Johnson bar where you verify that it's engaged by making sure that you cannot get your fingernail to fit between it and the hole that it latches into. When I first got the airplane, I would keep a GoPro in the back and review how I flew. I discovered things like I would always shift to the left of centerline immediately after lifting off and realized I was using inadequate right-rudder. I also noticed that my right hand on landing went in a circle, checking the mixture, prop, and the fingernail check on the gear repeatedly while on approach.

Aside from that, I had to retrain myself to verify on short final and threshold crossing that the gear indication was in the green -- just like you verify "airspeed alive, instruments in the green" on initial roll-out. I would kick myself when missing that final check in spite of multiple GUMPS checks, much like I mentioned in a previous post about backing the mixture out a couple turns for local flights so I had something to do on approach. I believe that the mechanical "Johnson bar" gear of the vintage Mooney and the physical verification of it's position with that fingernail check gives extra redundancy for verifying gear position -- sort of a "muscle memory" to where you put your hand somewhere and if your fingernail rest isn't there, you become aware of it.

However, there was one time a couple months after getting my plane when I was in the landing flare and I had an "oh shit, my gear!" moment and thought that I was setting the plane down on its belly. Miraculously I had already dropped the gear and forgotten that I'd already put it down. Here's what happened: I had left Florida heading to Las Vegas after a slight delay as my GPS data had expired and my GPS data card programmer hadn't arrived yet. I had to wait for the flight school to open and borrow their programmer so I ended up departing a couple hours later than planned. I stopped in Texas for fuel, and then stopped again in Texas to top off so I had what I thought would be enough to get me all the way to Las Vegas. Leaving West Texas I encountered much stronger headwinds than expected. I had briefed that ABQ (Albuquerque, NM) would be where I'd stop if things didn't look good as I was unfamiliar with the southwest. In fact, prior to the trip, I had briefed that all my stops would be airports that were in the vicinity of somewhere I could get major airline service as I needed to get to Las Vegas for an event. If I had an AOG (aircraft on ground) situation that prevented me from continuing the trip myself, I was prepared to shift to a commercial flight. Field elevation for KABQ is 5355 and it ended up being the highest altitude airport where I've ever landed. From the east under IFR (night VMC conditions prevailed) the controller had me cross the mountain ridge at 11,000 feet. The field was 10 miles to the west. I had been trained to not go under 18 inches of MP in the descent to avoid shock cooling the engine. I don't follow that instruction anymore, but I did back then. I needed to drop 5500ft in 10 miles with my power not pulled all the way back and I wasn't prepared for such an aggressive descent. I needed to do a 270 degree turn, which I opted to do over the city lights as I figure the dark area behind me was a giant rock. The tower assigned a runway to me that had a slight quartering tailwind (maybe a couple knots, not much). At that altitude and with the tailwind, my ground speed was much higher than I'd ever experienced on landing. I'm sitting there with my hand on the throttle trying to pull power out while over the runway due to the higher ground speed. As the plane settled onto the runway, I had the thought "Oh fuck! My gear!" Fortunately I had dropped it early to help with the drag when I needed to lose altitude after clearing that mountain. But the conditions on that approach broke my normal cycle of physically checking the Johnson Bar multiple times on final because I was so fixated on thinking that I was carrying too much power due to my groundspeed and my hand being dedicated to the throttle and nothing else. Had I not dedicated myself to dropping it early and operating conservatively, that would have been an incident.

So, to reiterate, make sure that on short final that you make a habit of checking for the green light that shows your gear is down. If you don't see it, make sure that you're flying a fixed gear airplane. Make it as natural as verifying your fuel selector, pump, trim, flaps, transponder, frequencies, and mixture as you turn onto the runway and then your airspeed and instruments on your takeoff roll. And when you pull your flaps up after landing, brief yourself that you have identified the flap switch just in case you're flying a Bonanza. There have been numerous gear-up incidents in Bonanzas where the pilot inadvertently pulls the gear switch instead of the flaps due to selecting the wrong switch since they're both low and to the right of the pilot.

Got my CFI in one. Had an electrical fire in one.

6231V was my favorite plane until someone crashed it. Cessna 172RG. It went up 11,000 feet, had a nice radio stack with the old WxScope and LORAN, flew by the numbers, you can get 170 Knots on a descent, man I miss that plane

Anyone mentioned to not forget about the gear? I actually liked the Gutless, but it really exists only for the complex certification.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I just want to be sure I understand though.  Should I check the gear before I land?

There used to be a flight school that did a lot of training with a Cutlass but would never emphasize that it was a Cutlass,  they'd just say Cessna or occasionally Skyhawk so when they'd come in with flight following they'd be tagged up as C172, not C72R


Most people recognized the tail number and would check for gear early. New guys sometimes would take the type for granted and not check until they were a little closer. Quite a few pucker moments.

Apparently someone should have read this thread.

Not sure if it's a 172RG or a 182RG (I don't know how to tell the difference).

http://www.azfamily.com/story/35036378/plane-damaged-after-pilot-forgets-to-lower-the-landing-gear?autostart=true

That'd be a 182.

What do you mean? When you start flying complex planes, you go by checklists. When you fly retractable gear planes with controllable props and possibly electric fuel pumps, it screams for checklists. Every plane I made it my business to get the manual for checklists thru all phases of flight

I saw one two weeks ago, and it looked like the gear was falling off in slow motion.  
Definitely weird the first time you see it.
Nice looking aircraft once the gear is up, though.
And speaking of retractable gear, there was a gear-up landing at our airport on 3/29.
I wasn't there, but they said the custom prop was neat looking.

My old Ops Officer came real close to landing a C-141 gear up while getting a checkride.  From then on, he made everyone (even the Loadmaster) on the crew look and confirm the gear was down before landing.

The Cutlass is a good plane to get a complex endorsement in, especially if you've been flying stiff-gear 172's.

BUT... it does have its idiosyncrasies, one of which is the gear system, the other is its well-earned nickname 'Gutless'.

Being a complex aircraft, you need to develop a flow pattern and get in the habit of using checklists always.

The best place to start is the checklists in the POH and then as you build experience, make your own, based on your flow patterns. Another option is to buy commercially available checklists from places like Sporty's.

So you think he should check the gear too then?

Just to be clear, I never said he should check the gear. I said he shouldn't forget the gear. Once you've gotten it there's probably not much of a need to check it again. Just trust it. It'll always be there for you. Just put that gear handle down and go back to staring out the window. It'll be fine.



eta: the above is all severe sarcasm. Of course you want to check the gear more than once.

My dad bought one new back around 81'.  9633B If I remember correctly.  He put it on leaseback with a flying club out of Fullerton, CA.  The tail number isn't in the registry anymore, but I recall a story of it being flown into some power lines in socal in the late 80s.

I logged about 5 hours in one back in the mid 90s.  I much preferred the Arrow over the 172RG.  The 172RG had 180hp to the Arrow's 200hp.

I presume you're going to get checked out in the 182 for the HP endorsement?

I had laminated checklists in a yoke mount along with Jepp plates for every a/c I flew. I used TITS on runway  clearance right before rolling. On landing 3 green was good for me.

I only had one mishap with gear that did not want to go down

It had an emergency brake lever type release, an Aero Commander



I landed without problems, I was a newbie pussy and declared an emergencythey rolled a fire enginewhen the wheels touched down I shut off the fuel pump and shut the engine

I landed a little fast so it was a good thing so I just barely cleared the runway, I tied up the taxiway until I got a tow

I've flown both R172 and R182

The Cutlass I flew had a new engine and nice 3 blade. It had balls compared to the tomahawk ;)

The R182 had more. A LOT more.

I was taught to tap the brakes after takeoff to stop them from spinning before retracting.
No crab at touchdown. Told the legs are weaker than fixed. (anyone else hear these?)

The R182 is nose heavy and VERY easy to bonk the nose on. Someone not me bonked the rental R182. Been waiting for 5 months now for it to get repaired and back in rotation.

pitch power prop mixture
cgumps (cowlflaps).. Also in cessnas don't forget to double triple check that the seats are locked in the rails. Make sure any ADs around them are done.

Tapping the brakes doesn't do any good- as soon as you release them, the wheel spins again. Besides that, the possibility exists to spin the tire on the wheel as it slides into the wheel well, leaving you with a flat main tire. A spinning tire won't do this.

The tires do not grow to any significant size once the weight is off them and you can prove this to yourself by looking at them when the plane is on jacks.

As far as the gear is concerned, I doubt seriously it's any weaker than a stiff gear 172 and suspect it may even be a little stronger.

The 172rg has the rumor of being weak, but the Cessna rep said it was stronger than the standard fixed gear. Other than, I just know it looks like toothpicks and a wheel attached!

They always had the image of flexing more, in my mind at least. Maybe that is why they are considered stronger, as they sure seem to flex.

p

Tapping the brakes sure does stop the struts from vibrating though. Tap the brakes on fixed gear 182's also for same reason.

I loved that plane, you could put a fat guy in the back seat and flare like a champ

Carry a golf club..........

The POH says you have to tap the brakes before retracting the gear.  Is that outdated?

If that's what the poh says to do then go ahead and do it. You can never be faulted for following the poh.

I did my Commercial in the Cutlass. It is a good plane for stepping up to the complex rating, just enough work and attention to keep you busy, but not too overwhelming for the new pilot. Prop, gear and cowl flaps are going to be your new friends, oh and also the rudder trim. The Cutlass I flew had a pretty stout torque, and constantly had to check the rudder trim. Overall a fun plane, I enjoyed it.

What Vne sez... but it is outdated.

Tapping the brakes stops the spin until you release the brakes- then the wheel starts turning again.

If you're gonna press the pedal on retraction, hold it until the wheels are in the well if you wanna stop the spin.

Why would they start spinning again?  They don't on fixed gear 172's

Momentum from the gear moving during retraction.

I've watched several videos of 172RG gear retractions.  You can see when the brakes are tapped.  The wheel never spins again.

That would be trivial rotation, not anywhere near a spinning tire.

I've seen them turn slowly due to small cuts or something like that, but it was never more than 20-30 rpm.

ETA:

After watching the video above, I can see that the wheels don't rotate much, if at all, in Cessna single retracts.

Learn something new every day.

A month later and I finally got to fly the thing.  Just couldn't sync up schedules.  Flies just like a 172.  Controllable prop thing was pretty intuitive.  We did some power on/off stalls, slow flight, steep turns (he had me do 55 degree turns for fun) goofed around with the 'auto pilot' - an old Cessna 300a.  It kinda works.  Not great today as it was pretty bumpy and it was really fighting to hold a heading.  Did a manual gear extension, pumped the handle 23 times!

He was satisfied with my air work, we just need to do some pattern work - just a couple landings - and he'll sign off on my complex endorsement.

We would have done the pattern work today, but my favorite controller was in the tower screwing stuff up.  We waited 20 minutes to depart, and just to give an example of her stellar work, while we're waiting a Challenger (IIRC) keys up, after he was cleared to land, and says:

C: When I go-around, which way do you want me to turn?
T: Um, is there a reason you need to go around, you've been cleared to land.
C: Well, I mean, we could land, I understand I'm cleared to land, but there's a plane on the runway, so...
T: Oh..  I guess then just go around and make right traffic.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksdl/KSDL2-Twr-Apr-30-2017-1730Z.mp3

at about 11:30 in the recording.

I'm going to have to wander up there some time just for the entertainment.

I haven't had a chance to listen to the audio clip but are you saying you were waiting 20 minutes to depart while sitting on the runway?

Oh, sorry, no.  I can see how you'd think that.  I wasn't the plane on the runway.  It was someone else landing in front of the jet.  I was holding short.