User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 8/17/2016 7:45:13 PM EDT
[#1]
The Captain is always in charge.
That's unless the co-pilot, senior flight attendant, dispatcher, gate agent, mechanic, first class passengers, FAA Inspector, TV reporter, EPA, EEOC, NAACP, OSHA, FEMA, or janitor in the terminal has a higher priority opinion. 
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Posted: 8/17/2016 7:48:46 PM EDT
[#2]
The early reduction of thrust, lack of control column input, and nose-down pitch tendency in ground effect, resulted in the airplane pitching to a nose-down (negative) pitch attitude. The airplane touched down at a descent rate of 960 ft per minute, at a pitch rate of -2.8º/second and a nose-down pitch attitude of -3.1º, and the nose gear contacted the runway before the main gear, resulting in the nose gear collapse. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 8:42:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN 
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 8:49:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. My female students have been either rockstars or fucking awful, no in-between. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 9:05:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My female students have been either rockstars or fucking awful, no in-between. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. My female students have been either rockstars or fucking awful, no in-between. What's the over/under, and I"m not talkin mile high club. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 11:35:17 AM EDT
[#6]
I, like so many others who fly, have read a shit ton of crash reports. The thing that stands out to me about accidents involving women is that they have fewer "hold my beer and watch this" types of accidents, but you see more bad decisions under pressure, or failure to recognize a bad situation, like the Leer jet accident in SC where she had a tire blowout after V1. The recording had the copilot saying "GO GO GO" when she attempted to abort and killed both of them, or the woman who recently pancaked her Cirrus in Texas, or the student who took up a Cessna in IMC conditions. There's the Colgan air crash, or the Birmingham UPS (or was it FedEx) incident. Even Amelia Earhart was frequently referred to as a "plumber" by other pilots. Though we have also heard of Pancho Barnes.
And, of course, I think this young lady did a terrific job. The NTSB report shows #3 swallowed a valve. 
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Posted: 8/18/2016 2:07:00 PM EDT
[#7]
I can't speak for civil aviation but on the Army side...
I've been flying Army helicopters for 30 years and instructing in them for 23. I have no earthly idea how many folks I've trained but the number is high and I can't think of a size, shape, color, creed or type of plumbing I haven't trained. Fact is that the stud to dud ratio is about the same between males and females. The only real variance is that the female population is so much lower that when you get a dud they really stand out. And the real duds tend to play that extra "bias/discrimination" card at every turn. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 2:16:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rumor I heard was that she was offered a million dollar severance in lieu of termination and rejected it because she did nothing wrong. wow |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 2:21:10 PM EDT
[#9]
as others have said
she took the jet from the FO and continued the landing from an unstable approach. the other 2 in the cockpit called for a go around and she ignored them then she did not make a hard landing, she crashed the jet. and if they offered her a million in severance she not only is a crappng pilot that disregards safety and company training and policy, she is also an idiot. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 2:24:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
as others have said she took the jet from the FO and continued the landing from an unstable approach. the other 2 in the cockpit called for a go around and she ignored them then she did not make a hard landing, she crashed the jet. and if they offered her a million in severance she not only is a crappng pilot that disregards safety and company training and policy, she is also an idiot. Exactamente |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 3:49:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about. 
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 5:35:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. I had a late afternoon breakfast the other day with a buddy of mine at the DTW Coney Island. He has been a member of the interview team for his regional for about 6 months now. The interview he conducts is closely modeled after and scored identically to the interview conducted by the major airline this regional is affiliated with. This puts him in close proximity, at times, to the head of pilot recruitment for the major. My buddy just interviewed at this major and said he smoked the interview because he knows exactly how to handle the thing due to his involvement in the process. Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 5:40:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She was the base "Do Not Fly With" leader, according to another rumor. The Southwest pilot group is, despite the shit I fling at them, a nearly universally decent group of guys in my experience. I've ridden up front with them plenty, and on two flights it looked like a FLOT from Hell. Honestly, I think we will see more accidents like this in the future, not fewer, due to airline hiring trends. JMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Rumor I heard was that she was offered a million dollar severance in lieu of termination and rejected it because she did nothing wrong. Bad pilot and stupid. She was the base "Do Not Fly With" leader, according to another rumor. The Southwest pilot group is, despite the shit I fling at them, a nearly universally decent group of guys in my experience. I've ridden up front with them plenty, and on two flights it looked like a FLOT from Hell. Honestly, I think we will see more accidents like this in the future, not fewer, due to airline hiring trends. JMO. And I hate flying as it is. Thanks. 
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Posted: 8/18/2016 5:59:45 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the over/under, and I"m not talkin mile high club. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. My female students have been either rockstars or fucking awful, no in-between. What's the over/under, and I"m not talkin mile high club. Almost exactly 50/50. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 6:07:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a late afternoon breakfast the other day with a buddy of mine at the DTW Coney Island. He has been a member of the interview team for his regional for about 6 months now. The interview he conducts is closely modeled after and scored identically to the interview conducted by the major airline this regional is affiliated with. This puts him in close proximity, at times, to the head of pilot recruitment for the major. My buddy just interviewed at this major and said he smoked the interview because he knows exactly how to handle the thing due to his involvement in the process. Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. Yeah, I know it better than most. Affirmative Action is even worse than Gun Control, for being evil and Un-American. Incidentally, if any Regional pilots are listening, this is one of the best ways to break down that door. If you are a White male, non intern, non .Mil Pilot, non family, you have to do something to get noticed. Worm your way into Recruitment if you can. Volunteer for stuff. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 7:10:17 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I know it better than most. Affirmative Action is even worse than Gun Control, for being evil and Un-American. Incidentally, if any Regional pilots are listening, this is one of the best ways to break down that door. If you are a White male, non intern, non .Mil Pilot, non family, you have to do something to get noticed. Worm your way into Recruitment if you can. Volunteer for stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had a late afternoon breakfast the other day with a buddy of mine at the DTW Coney Island. He has been a member of the interview team for his regional for about 6 months now. The interview he conducts is closely modeled after and scored identically to the interview conducted by the major airline this regional is affiliated with. This puts him in close proximity, at times, to the head of pilot recruitment for the major. My buddy just interviewed at this major and said he smoked the interview because he knows exactly how to handle the thing due to his involvement in the process. Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. Yeah, I know it better than most. Affirmative Action is even worse than Gun Control, for being evil and Un-American. Incidentally, if any Regional pilots are listening, this is one of the best ways to break down that door. If you are a White male, non intern, non .Mil Pilot, non family, you have to do something to get noticed. Worm your way into Recruitment if you can. Volunteer for stuff. Or get a sex change. 
I like to come on here and stir the pot for entertainment purposes. Having flown continuously for over 50 years I have seen a lot. I have flown with good and bad boys and girls. What matters to me is whether the he or she pilot deserves to be where they are and whether they are any good at what they do. It is equally important to me that a professional crew pilot likes flying. I have flown with some pretty decent pilots that didn't really like flying and only did it for the pay. Without exception those were a pain in the ass to fly with and I wished they would go away. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 7:18:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN FireMAN PoliceMAN InfantryMAN ArtilleryMAN RifleMAN
The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. You are correct it was an unstable approach after she took it over. You are also correct she should have gone around. You are not correct about the crashing part. I have seen lots of airplanes that have been, no shit, officially crashed that looked a lot better than that one.
I only have a little over 17,000 hours in B-737's. I have landed 737's on some short runways. 7000' is not short in my book even if both ends are in the water. Detroit City back before runway improvements was relatively short and only 75' wide. It's all relative to what you've done before, I guess. Burbank was also a place where you needed your shit in one sack. I used to operate DC-3's out of 2800' narrow strips in Jamaica with trees all around and C-130's on 3000' strips at night with little tiny battery operated runway lights sans any kind of VASI. The jobs required it. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 7:38:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Well I was told to never land my newly bought Skylane nose first when I got it or bad things would happen,
like a bent firewall. Guess all aircraft have some similarities.
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Posted: 8/18/2016 7:39:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn nose-draggers
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Posted: 8/18/2016 7:43:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. I'm pretty close to giving up on ever getting hired by a major. Its probably just not going to happen for me at any timeframe that justifies the ass pain, and it sucks because I've wanted to fly professionally for a major airline my whole life. But that doesn't matter to anyone that matters. Nor does the experience, or education, the training record, or professional resume, or merit badges, or the fact that we wandered in the wilderness for a decade. I did fail a checkride 18 years ago, so there is that. The industry is making it clear who they want and who they don't want on their flight decks. It's their train set, and their rules. There is no shortage of people who want the job, so why compete when the rules are basically clearly rigged against you? Then I read the ideas of "fixing" the "pilot shortage" with single pilot crewed aircraft, and shake my head. We can't be the only industry where people are make the rules are THAT far removed from reality, right? But, I think we are, and I think we have been. The fact that the Unions have essentially surrendered the hiring process to HR departments essentially proves it. Why would any MEC allow this? I'm not the only one thinking what I'm thinking. My company has recently tried to hire pilots, and two of the very good candidates had split for non-flying jobs for better hours, extremely good pay/benefits and a normal schedule. No 0400 shows for a 14 duty day with a Part 91 tail end repo for those guys. I really enjoy flying, and really believe that I'm good at it. I'm flying with younger and less experienced guys and doing lots of essentially dual given on the line. I enjoy that. I'm sorry for whining, but I'm also tired of having to deny the truth above for political correctness reasons, which we consistently do, like we're living in East Germany. But at some point, the reality that I could making a much better financial decision is a nagging truth. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:00:28 PM EDT
[#21]
It's OK to whine. I have flown T-37's.
As a card carrying "old fart" I can tell you that getting hired by a major is most likely not what you think it is. That probably doesn't make you feel any better, but if flying airplanes is your passion, the airlines these days is not the place to be. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:20:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's OK to whine. I have flown T-37's. As a card carrying "old fart" I can tell you that getting hired by a major is most likely not what you think it is. That probably doesn't make you feel any better, but if flying airplanes is your passion, the airlines these days is not the place to be. My goal in aviation is to fly for more money than a grade school teacher. Dare to dream! |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:26:43 PM EDT
[#23]
I've trained and evaluated pilots for over forty years. Gender, race, or any other factor does not determine how good or bad the pilot will be or is. Some pilots are great, some are average and some really suck. As long as you don't have an old pilot, with a limited experience background who thinks they are God's Gift to aviation resisting best practices, you should be OK.
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:27:24 PM EDT
[#24]
It is entirely possible to make good money at a major and hate going to work so much it makes you want to fucking scream, ruin your family life and stress you to the point that it changes the person you are. Just saying........
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:36:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've trained and evaluated pilots for over forty years. Gender, race, or any other factor does not determine how good or bad the pilot will be or is. Some pilots are great, some are average and some really suck. As long as you don't have an old pilot, with a limited experience background who thinks they are God's Gift to aviation resisting best practices, you should be OK. Lots of things can occupy the "any other factor" category. At today's airlines I would modify your statement as follows, "some pilots are great/awesome, many/most pilots are average and some can't hit their asses with either hand and should be put in a towsack and thrown in the river with the stray cats.
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Posted: 8/18/2016 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is entirely possible to make good money at a major and hate going to work so much it makes you want to fucking scream, ruin your family life and stress you to the point that it changes the person you are. Just saying........ You are absolutely correct. There is that. I've seen airline families up close my whole life. I was one. I guess that means I should know better. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 10:34:46 PM EDT
[#27]
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I'm pretty close to giving up on ever getting hired by a major. Its probably just not going to happen for me at any timeframe that justifies the ass pain, and it sucks because I've wanted to fly professionally for a major airline my whole life. But that doesn't matter to anyone that matters. Nor does the experience, or education, the training record, or professional resume, or merit badges, or the fact that we wandered in the wilderness for a decade. I did fail a checkride 18 years ago, so there is that. The industry is making it clear who they want and who they don't want on their flight decks. It's their train set, and their rules. There is no shortage of people who want the job, so why compete when the rules are basically clearly rigged against you? Then I read the ideas of "fixing" the "pilot shortage" with single pilot crewed aircraft, and shake my head. We can't be the only industry where people are make the rules are THAT far removed from reality, right? But, I think we are, and I think we have been. The fact that the Unions have essentially surrendered the hiring process to HR departments essentially proves it. Why would any MEC allow this? I'm not the only one thinking what I'm thinking. My company has recently tried to hire pilots, and two of the very good candidates had split for non-flying jobs for better hours, extremely good pay/benefits and a normal schedule. No 0400 shows for a 14 duty day with a Part 91 tail end repo for those guys. I really enjoy flying, and really believe that I'm good at it. I'm flying with younger and less experienced guys and doing lots of essentially dual given on the line. I enjoy that. I'm sorry for whining, but I'm also tired of having to deny the truth above for political correctness reasons, which we consistently do, like we're living in East Germany. But at some point, the reality that I could making a much better financial decision is a nagging truth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. I'm pretty close to giving up on ever getting hired by a major. Its probably just not going to happen for me at any timeframe that justifies the ass pain, and it sucks because I've wanted to fly professionally for a major airline my whole life. But that doesn't matter to anyone that matters. Nor does the experience, or education, the training record, or professional resume, or merit badges, or the fact that we wandered in the wilderness for a decade. I did fail a checkride 18 years ago, so there is that. The industry is making it clear who they want and who they don't want on their flight decks. It's their train set, and their rules. There is no shortage of people who want the job, so why compete when the rules are basically clearly rigged against you? Then I read the ideas of "fixing" the "pilot shortage" with single pilot crewed aircraft, and shake my head. We can't be the only industry where people are make the rules are THAT far removed from reality, right? But, I think we are, and I think we have been. The fact that the Unions have essentially surrendered the hiring process to HR departments essentially proves it. Why would any MEC allow this? I'm not the only one thinking what I'm thinking. My company has recently tried to hire pilots, and two of the very good candidates had split for non-flying jobs for better hours, extremely good pay/benefits and a normal schedule. No 0400 shows for a 14 duty day with a Part 91 tail end repo for those guys. I really enjoy flying, and really believe that I'm good at it. I'm flying with younger and less experienced guys and doing lots of essentially dual given on the line. I enjoy that. I'm sorry for whining, but I'm also tired of having to deny the truth above for political correctness reasons, which we consistently do, like we're living in East Germany. But at some point, the reality that I could making a much better financial decision is a nagging truth. It's unfair and discouraging for sure, but don't give up. It'll work out in the end. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 8:28:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's unfair and discouraging for sure, but don't give up. It'll work out in the end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's the rub... When my buddy was informed by the head of pilot recruitment of this extremely desirable major airline that he was to be hired the guy actually said to him "let's face it, if you were black or a woman you'd have been hired years ago." Now we all know that's true based on casual observation of the industry. But having it outright confirmed by the man in charge that it's true really kinda burns me up. I'm pretty close to giving up on ever getting hired by a major. Its probably just not going to happen for me at any timeframe that justifies the ass pain, and it sucks because I've wanted to fly professionally for a major airline my whole life. But that doesn't matter to anyone that matters. Nor does the experience, or education, the training record, or professional resume, or merit badges, or the fact that we wandered in the wilderness for a decade. I did fail a checkride 18 years ago, so there is that. The industry is making it clear who they want and who they don't want on their flight decks. It's their train set, and their rules. There is no shortage of people who want the job, so why compete when the rules are basically clearly rigged against you? Then I read the ideas of "fixing" the "pilot shortage" with single pilot crewed aircraft, and shake my head. We can't be the only industry where people are make the rules are THAT far removed from reality, right? But, I think we are, and I think we have been. The fact that the Unions have essentially surrendered the hiring process to HR departments essentially proves it. Why would any MEC allow this? I'm not the only one thinking what I'm thinking. My company has recently tried to hire pilots, and two of the very good candidates had split for non-flying jobs for better hours, extremely good pay/benefits and a normal schedule. No 0400 shows for a 14 duty day with a Part 91 tail end repo for those guys. I really enjoy flying, and really believe that I'm good at it. I'm flying with younger and less experienced guys and doing lots of essentially dual given on the line. I enjoy that. I'm sorry for whining, but I'm also tired of having to deny the truth above for political correctness reasons, which we consistently do, like we're living in East Germany. But at some point, the reality that I could making a much better financial decision is a nagging truth. It's unfair and discouraging for sure, but don't give up. It'll work out in the end. No it won't. Go fly twin otters on floats in the Bahamas instead. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 9:21:18 AM EDT
[#29]
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Lots of things can occupy the "any other factor" category. At today's airlines I would modify your statement as follows, "some pilots are great/awesome, many/most pilots are average and some can't hit their asses with either hand and should be put in a towsack and thrown in the river with the stray cats. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've trained and evaluated pilots for over forty years. Gender, race, or any other factor does not determine how good or bad the pilot will be or is. Some pilots are great, some are average and some really suck. As long as you don't have an old pilot, with a limited experience background who thinks they are God's Gift to aviation resisting best practices, you should be OK. Lots of things can occupy the "any other factor" category. At today's airlines I would modify your statement as follows, "some pilots are great/awesome, many/most pilots are average and some can't hit their asses with either hand and should be put in a towsack and thrown in the river with the stray cats. Well said, but I hate to denigrate the worthless stray cats by making them share the towsack. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 9:42:27 AM EDT
[#30]
It's a good thing we're talking about pilots. You could get several cats and a pilot in a towsack.
Flight Attendants are another story. 
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Posted: 8/19/2016 12:11:53 PM EDT
[#31]
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For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Any person can be anything they want to be, or so we are told. The trouble is they just might not be worth a shit at it. Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance: AirMAN ..... The NTSB accident list is littered with MEN who couldn't hack it. Patty Wagstaff, Svetlana Kapanina, a whole bunch of WASPs and my check ride pilot disagree with the whole airMAN thing. Then again, I'm just a PPL and WTF do I know. For some reason, certain people can never refrain from spouting off about shit which they know absolutely nothing about.
It's just silly, for a PPL to think he has more insight than a guy who has spent a lifetime observing and evaluating the flying skills of his fellow crew-members. Staking his life on that judgement, and protecting hundreds of passengers, on a hundred thousand different occasions.... It's a complicated subject, but the simple fact is that there are certain female pilots that have been pushed through the ranks, coddled, helped, excused, and given breaks. Right up to the point where they find out that the laws of Physics are less forgiving than the laws of Man. Of course, there are others that are adequate, and some that are excellent. The subject is an interesting one, and very important. However, it's one that will never be properly studied. I can add a little insight and clear up some of the other misinformation, for those who are interested: LGA IS a short runway for a 737. It is also a tough airport to fly into. High stress because the traffic density. The Controllers and the Pilots have to bring their A game, every time. The crappy runways and the traffic congestion makes it one of the most unforgiving and difficult airports in the world. On top of that, the 737 is a difficult airplane to land. It's only the exacting skills and professionalism throughout in Professional Aviation culture, which prevents this from happening more often. That said, Pilots Always have an ace up their sleeve. The Go-Around. TOGA, Pitch up, Flaps up, etc. Whenever the approach is unstable, or the landing is in doubt, you go around. At some airlines, Either pilot can call for it (for any reason), the the Flying pilot has to do it. I suspect SWA has a similar SOP. Maybe a SW pilot can chime in. She didn't get fired for crashing. She got fired for continuing an unstable approach, and for not going around. Supremo said: Certain jobs absolutely require a minimum level of competency in order to survive. For instance:AirMAN...... All other political correctness bullshit aside, I was calling Supremo out on the statement "MAN = competency", and that plenty of people with XY chromosomes have failed in aviation, while plenty of XX have succeeded. I'm nobody to judge his skill, judgement of a persons ability to pilot an aircraft (assuming it's not clouded by gender) or expertise in training people. Hence my statement about I'm just a PPL. Your analysis of how she fucked up and why she got fired is informative. Making sexist comments wasn't. ETA: I was 17 when I did my PPL at Pilot's Choice in the early 90's when everyone called Beth a bitch. She was nothing but professional and patient with me and my blundering. Some men just don't like strong women I guess, or she had to be extra hardass to get shit done. Another one of my friends is a captain, flies aerobatics and a bearhawk backwoods for fun. It just pisses me off that they get dissed. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 12:26:12 PM EDT
[#32]
If you take everything I say here seriously you are taking the bait.
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Posted: 8/19/2016 12:30:56 PM EDT
[#33]
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If you take everything I say here seriously you are taking the bait. Damnit, its the internet and I wanted to argue! 
Don't pull an oldcatdriver and get kicked tho. |
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Posted: 8/19/2016 2:07:05 PM EDT
[#34]
The term you are looking for is Captainess.
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Posted: 8/24/2016 5:24:54 AM EDT
[#35]
What can those of us who are not aviators, do to protect the flying public from these dangerous hiring practices? I for one don't want
to endanger my self or family,for the sake of political correctness. This does seem to be a developing threat in commercial aviation. I simply want the best bus driver in the sky,period. I can put up with the decline in service, but not with safety. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 6:29:04 AM EDT
[#36]
The problem started with elected officials. The problem really took off during the Bill Clinton administration.
Me thinks that a Hilliary administration would take it several steps further. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 8:16:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What can those of us who are not aviators, do to protect the flying public from these dangerous hiring practices? I for one don't want to endanger my self or family,for the sake of political correctness. This does seem to be a developing threat in commercial aviation. I simply want the best bus driver in the sky,period. I can put up with the decline in service, but not with safety. Help prevent Norwegian Air. Realize you get what you pay for. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:03:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What can those of us who are not aviators, do to protect the flying public from these dangerous hiring practices? I for one don't want to endanger my self or family,for the sake of political correctness. This does seem to be a developing threat in commercial aviation. I simply want the best bus driver in the sky,period. I can put up with the decline in service, but not with safety. Fwiw, Affirmative action practices have been in full swing since the early 90's. They haven't caused a statistically provable decline in safety. Fact is, our airplanes are reliable enough, and the system has enough safeguards and redundancies, to compensate for a lot of degradation. There is nothing that anybody can do about it. The Government initially pushed affirmative action, but soon, the Airlines were going full bore, and very proud of it. It is, what it is. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 9:35:01 AM EDT
[#39]
I'm more worried about airlines putting the cheapest pilots they can into seats, than I am them trying to put women into the seats.
Running pilots completely ragged, on shoestring paychecks, and allowing pilots like the colgan air guy or the AF447 to slip through the cracks. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:28:48 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm more worried about airlines putting the cheapest pilots they can into seats, than I am them trying to put women into the seats. Running pilots completely ragged, on shoestring paychecks, and allowing pilots like the colgan air guy or the AF447 to slip through the cracks. This is the bigger threat. In a previous life I saw a couple prime examples of quotas resulting lting in pushing certain people through. One was so bad she finally quit because she was scared of killing herself. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 10:32:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fwiw, Affirmative action practices have been in full swing since the early 90's. They haven't caused a statistically provable decline in safety. Fact is, our airplanes are reliable enough, and the system has enough safeguards and redundancies, to compensate for a lot of degradation. There is nothing that anybody can do about it. The Government initially pushed affirmative action, but soon, the Airlines were going full bore, and very proud of it. It is, what it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What can those of us who are not aviators, do to protect the flying public from these dangerous hiring practices? I for one don't want to endanger my self or family,for the sake of political correctness. This does seem to be a developing threat in commercial aviation. I simply want the best bus driver in the sky,period. I can put up with the decline in service, but not with safety. Fwiw, Affirmative action practices have been in full swing since the early 90's. They haven't caused a statistically provable decline in safety. Fact is, our airplanes are reliable enough, and the system has enough safeguards and redundancies, to compensate for a lot of degradation. There is nothing that anybody can do about it. The Government initially pushed affirmative action, but soon, the Airlines were going full bore, and very proud of it. It is, what it is. The fact that affirmative action is cutting into the safety reserves of the system is unquestionably true. So are other factors, and when the system fails, everyone plays the "lets not blame you, let's not blame me, let's both blame the man behind that tree" game. But, you are correct, it is what it is. |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:13:46 AM EDT
[#42]
I sure do enjoy being a retired pilot.
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Posted: 8/24/2016 11:36:20 AM EDT
[#43]
3 wire?
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:36:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Pilot already got another job!!! Airlander 10 nose landing!
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/world/europe/airlander-10-airship-crash.html?_r=0 
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Mg-RPTiVa_Q[/youtube] |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pilot already got another job!!! Airlander 10 nose landing! http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/25/world/europe/airlander-10-airship-crash.html?_r=0 http://www.mcclatchy-wires.com/wire_photos/8r9q0d/picture97534097/ALTERNATES/FREE_960/197Britain%20Giant%20Airship.JPEG  https://youtu.be/Mg-RPTiVa_QFor some reason, while watching that footage, I was reminded of this:
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:43:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
3 wire? Nope, round down taxi one wire |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#47]
lol.... long time for alarms to be going off.
terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain,terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain, terrain BUMP! |
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