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Posted: 4/13/2016 12:28:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: This showed up on Beechtalk and was posted by a witness. We don't discuss GA accidents here all that often, but I found the reported behavior of the line crew deplorable. just watched helplessly as a plane crashed. I had just landed at Ocala, FL hoping to grab some fuel and some breakfast at the Tailwinds Cafe. The line man had put a chock under the wheel and I was busy getting down off the wing. There were maybe 6 people on the ramp. A Mooney was talking off and the engine sounded wrong, there was a bang and then silence. Time seems to stand still. Several more people came out of the FBO while the plane was maybe 600 feet above the ground. The pilot tried to turn back and I thought he was doing a great job. Everyone on the ramp was just watching in scared anticipation, hoping that he made it. Maybe 75 or 100 feet above the ground the left wing fell and the plane crashed behind the VOR. I don’t even remember it making a sound when it came to rest. There was this surreal moment when time just stood still. The lineman calls on his radio for them to call 911. I start running across the ramp knowing that the crash site is at least 3/4 of mile away. The lineman starts yelling at me to stop that I can’t cross the runway. I yell back to tell the tower to close the field. He yells back saying tower says to stop and that fire and EMS are on the way. Some lady yells you can’t move the victim, they might have spinal injuries. All sorts of unkind words roll through my head but I stop, turn around, and look at these helpless bystanders. A dozen people stand on the ramp. Waiting. Watching. There is no smoke and the wreckage is behind the VOR so it is hard to see anything. I am pissed off! I keep thinking that if I was the pilot in the plane I would hope somebody is running to help me. Do you know how long it takes for 1 car to get to the scene? 10 minutes. It was a freaking eternity. I could have been there in 5. 15 minutes and there are police and fire and EMS on the scene. Everyone wanders back into the FBO. I sit down in the cafe and order breakfast watching out the window as the 1st responders do their job. Helpless. Mad. Angry. Praying that there are survivors. Hoping against hope that everyone magically walks away. Thinking I should have run out there to help and f$ck them and let them throw me in jail. The cafe is quiet as everyone just waits for something to happen. Finally an ambulance rolls away from the scene, comes down the runway and out a perimeter gate. There were no lights, no siren. Is that bad? Is that good? Is everyone OK or is everyone dead? Thousands of questions and no answers. About 45 minutes later the airport is open again. Planes take off and arrive like nothing happened. Life goes on. My flight home is slow with a 35 -40 knot headwind. Lots of turbulence to match my mood. I am sad. Sad for the pilot. Sad for any passengers. Sad for their families.  ETA: Sorry, I should have read it more carefully...I see that you didn't witness it. |
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Posted: 4/13/2016 12:42:58 PM EDT
[#2]
One dead, one with minor injuries, considering it sounds like a stall-spin, the fact that anyone survived is amazing.
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Posted: 4/13/2016 1:25:21 PM EDT
[#3]
The Writer should have just kept going. Sometimes, you just have to do the right thing, and damn the consequences.
General Aviation is a dangerous pursuit. If you are going to be part of that community, you should be willing to assist. This thread got me trying to remember how many wrecks I've seen early in my career. It was a lot. Was able to help extricate 3 of them. |
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Posted: 4/13/2016 4:17:30 PM EDT
[#4]
It is a difficult call.
Running 3/4 of a mile, they might not be in any shape to help when they got there.... Or if they were fit it might be nothing. We were always told to 'walk fast' not run. Next we have to ask what, if any, training they had. Good intentions do not help in many cases and can hurt. I have worked on several people, luckily most of them survived. But I can't think of a single case where my intervention made a significant (life/death) difference to the outcome. In one case I was doing CPR to a guy that was clearly dead. I kept at it till the paramedics arrived and relieved me. When they got there they did NOTHING but pull us off and call it in. I did CPR because it seemed like the thing to do, the professionals knew better and got orders via radio to stop all measures. I'd most likely move that way. And the second someone professional arrived, I walk away. But pulling someone out of a wreck could easily damage them more. Sucks to see, I saw a 172 spin in after take off once. Burst into flame on impact. My Dad held us back. HE knew better. |
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Posted: 4/13/2016 5:21:01 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One dead, one with minor injuries, considering it sounds like a stall-spin, the fact that anyone survived is amazing. A good friend of mine just bought the farm to a low level stall-spin and I lost my mentor to a turn back. Even at slow speeds aircraft accidents are exceptionally violent and I'm amazed anyone ever survives. |
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Posted: 4/13/2016 10:31:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Must be reflexes to want to turn back. I always told myself on TO were landing straight ahead if engine quits.
Always figured I could make more money and buy a new plane. Kill myself and I'm not buying shit |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:42:41 AM EDT
[#7]
I also like to tell myself that an airplane wing is strong, that most treetops (trees are skinnier up top) and a 2000+ lb object moving at 60+ mph concentrating force across the few inches of wing cross section creates a lot of pressure against whatever it hits. I think of it like the head of Paul Bunyan's axe. One guy sent me a photo of a Cessna he put down in the trees after having an engine failure while doing powerline surveys. Both pilots walked away, but the airplane was hanging in the trees.
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:06:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew.
I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:41:06 PM EDT
[#9]
As a former 911 dispatcher, anyone who questions running across an active runway to a plane crash is a complete 100% jackass. There is a high probability that someone's life is ending over there. Standing on the sidelines like a bitch while someone is dying is one of the most cowardly things you can do as a human.
I have worked with thousands of police and can't think of a single one that would bring charges against someone for that, .fed, state or local. It would be media outrage mayhem and rightly so. Violate me, charge me, arrest me, shoot me. Considering the alternative, I can live with that every day of the week and twice on sunday. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 9:43:48 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you.
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Posted: 4/14/2016 10:30:02 PM EDT
[#11]
You shouldn't feel bad for not running to the plane. You were told to stay put by the responders. As a physician I can say that you could have potentially caused more harm than good. Maybe you could have helped. Who knows? Don't beat yourself up over it as you did what you were instructed to do. Maybe they should have run to the plane earlier. There may have been other factors you are unaware of that made them be more cautious before approaching the scene. Again, not your call so do not carry the weight of responsibility.
As far as the cause of the accident: I've been taught to always crash land within 30-45 degrees of runway. Like BOR said, GA is a dangerous pursuit. One of the most dangerous situations is loss of engine during climb out. At my airport it means crashing in trees or maybe getting to a field to the left if I'm lucky. Every time I take off I understand there is a risk that I may die if the engine quits after I start climbing. EVERY time I take off I mentally go through my pre take off briefing of what I will do in that situation which includes telling myself that I WILL NOT turn back no matter what. There is a reason it's called The Impossibe Turn. At safe altitude I have experimented and simulated the turn in my airplane. Factoring in the delay of recognizing the problem and taking action I realized that it could not be done. (Or at least I'm not skilled enough to do it). For me, it's much safer to try to crash land somewhere ahead. I do this calculation at every airport I take off from. I also calculate distance needed to stop the plane if I have to abort takeoff for some reason. At some airports that would mean a controlled crash into trees. Sometimes I wonder why I fly at all with these risks. I suppose it's the addiction. Guess I should have taken up golf instead. |
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Posted: 4/14/2016 11:39:22 PM EDT
[#12]
I should probably change my original post to clarify that this was a copy-paste of somebody else's post. The second is that I know pilots who were unconscious and dragged out of a downed aircraft that caught on fire prior to others being able to be rescued before the fire.
I don't know much about the types of injuries people succumb to or have due to airplane crashes, but I do know that post-impact fires are common. When I lost my engine on takeoff and put it down, people arrived in cars far earlier than the EMTs. ONCE AGAIN, THE BELOW ARTICLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME AND IS A COMPLETELY SEPARATE INCIDENT FROM THE ONE IN THE OP http://www.27east.com/news/article.cfm/East-End/436330/Small-Plane-Crashes-At-East-Hampton-Airport When he got to the plane, it had already caught fire. The male pilot was stumbling and fell down once, “clearly dazed” but conscious, he recalled. The woman could not move, he said. They were both covered in blood. Mr. Schum carried the woman back to the fence before the plane became engulfed in flames. What's reported in the article isn't exactly what I was told; supposedly the pilot got himself and his wife out before the guy arrived and the "hero" has embellished things to take credit, but the plane did erupt into flames shortly thereafter. Here is what the pilot said in this case: We are still in the hospital. Stoney Brook, nice people. even gave me a laptop to use. We are pretty banged up, I mostly from carrying my bride through the woods. For the record, nobody got us out of the plane, I unbelted my bride, removed her from the the plane as it was burning and carried her through the woods until a safe distance. If I had waited for the "hero from the web\news" we would be f#ckin toast. Im no hero, just doing my job, wanting to live another day.
... Yes I am saying that, this guy is a lunatic, had to get police involved with this Craig guy. He called Kim's mother to tell her how he rescued her and now feels a life connection with her and has to come to MA. to be with her. Had to have hospital security involved with him, had to notify our local police, he has too many stories. Thanks to everyone involved, but come on now. And now for the photos. 
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Posted: 4/15/2016 12:20:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a 'tough' call at all. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. That's a pretty dumb comparison, hero. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 4:25:35 AM EDT
[#14]
When seconds count, pray it is a man who possesses the confidence, courage and useful knowledge to take swift action that is near enough to help and not one who is prone to hesitate, who waits for others to decide for him if he should act, and who lacks any skills or understanding that would prove useful.
Rescue is often risky, I have willingly entered into dangerous situations that I understood many times and have many times been interfered with by jackasses, so-called professionals and regular everyday boneheads whose only contribution was to assume that they knew what was best for all involved and that was to do nothing until the 'first responders' could arrive.. I personally do not understand how that type of person can even live with themselves, but I would hazard a guess that they are simply panicky control freaks projecting their own fear, lack of confidence and uncertainty onto those unencumbered by such failure. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 5:21:15 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must be reflexes to want to turn back. I always told myself on TO were landing straight ahead if engine quits. Always figured I could make more money and buy a new plane. Kill myself and I'm not buying shit Yep, into the wind, as slow as possible - I like 20 mph windy days. |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 5:48:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When seconds count, pray it is a man who possesses the confidence, courage and useful knowledge to take swift action that is near enough to help and not one who is prone to hesitate, who waits for others to decide for him if he should act, and who lacks any skills or understanding that would prove useful. <snip> |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 5:53:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a 'tough' call at all. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. Without training, you are nothing but an close up rubber-necker. As the physician on here said, " As a physician I can say that you could have potentially caused more harm than good." |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:03:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Must be reflexes to want to turn back. I always told myself on TO were landing straight ahead if engine quits. Always figured I could make more money and buy a new plane. Kill myself and I'm not buying shit Most people don't want to break the plane. If the engine quits, I just assume the insurance company owns it and hope to act accordingly. My Pitts I wear a parachute. When I was getting checked out I asked the CFI what would he do if the engine quit right now.... He said, "ME, I'd land right on that road. YOU should plan on getting out (I have 7,300 skydives)". I still am pre loaded to step out of that plane if possible and would only attempt a landing if I was in a good place. Now my Citabria, I know that from 500 feet I can make a 180* turn and land on the taxiway. I know this because I have tired it. I took off, and flew directly over the taxi way and pulled the power at 700', then 600' then 500, and even 400 I can make it if I act PERFECTLY. So below 500 I land within 45* of my nose. The plane before the Citabria I could make it in 250 feet. so my hard deck was 300. This was a good video about the impossible turn that I liked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byBh1Qd6IgA |
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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:33:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Without training, you are nothing but an close up rubber-necker. As the physician on here said, " As a physician I can say that you could have potentially caused more harm than good." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. Without training, you are nothing but an close up rubber-necker. As the physician on here said, " As a physician I can say that you could have potentially caused more harm than good." "Don't let me burn bro ..." |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 12:51:35 AM EDT
[#20]
I watched a beech 18 stall after takeoff and go in. Was on fire immediately. I threw all the big extinguishers from our hangar and two more guys in my car and hauled ass out there. When we got there 3 occupants were out, and the plane was a loss.
I'm not so sure what I could have done, but you never know. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 8:03:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Don't let me burn bro ..." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. Without training, you are nothing but an close up rubber-necker. As the physician on here said, " As a physician I can say that you could have potentially caused more harm than good." "Don't let me burn bro ..." I have training. But like the Doc said, most people would not actually help the situation. You know how many times I am running with a med kit only to find a group of people who "ran to help" standing around the victim? Worse is when one of these "good guys" is doing something stupid like trying to give the person a drink (just delayed surgery for 6-8 hours) or is trying to move the guy when he does not need to be moved. I ran up to one accident and the guy CLEARLY had a compound fracture of his femur. Some well meaning guy was trying to move this victim..... If he made the wrong move, the razor sharp bone shards could have cut his femoral artery and they guy would have bled out in as little as 4 mins. Most of the hero's that claim they will run and "help" will get there and then stand around like idiots getting in the way. This is talk, just like when guys post they would have "Not let that BG talk to him like that", or "would have knocked that BG on his ass for that." You want to be a hero? Get training. Hell, even in this story the "hero" got there after the victim had pulled his wife out and walked away from the crash. |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 8:54:22 AM EDT
[#22]
^^^
I'll take my chances against burning ... drag me out before I burn and we'll see what kind of damage occurred saving me from burning to death. 
ETA - And bring a 2x4 ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sfZhXhCGwEA |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 10:12:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a pretty dumb comparison, hero. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. That's a pretty dumb comparison, hero. The attitude on this forum sickens me. Do you sit around and wait for the police in an active shooter scenario also? |
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Posted: 4/16/2016 6:26:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Waiting for first responders for impact related injuries is one thing, but there is absolutely no harm in running up to the plane with nothing. Most planes have a fire extinguisher, or better yet, grab one from close by. A bystander can always help if they can prevent a fire or get into the plane if occupants are ok, but trapped.
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Posted: 4/17/2016 12:56:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After listening to multiple people burn in entrapment, I disagree. The attitude on this forum sickens me. Do you sit around and wait for the police in an active shooter scenario also? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Tough call. Running across a tower controlled active runway doesn't exactly sound like a great plan though. Doesn't sound like a situation that should anger anyone though. If you're gonna get angry at anyone over this then maybe it should be at CFR for a slow response? I don't think I'd even get mad at them. I certainly wouldn't be pissed at the line crew. I guess I'd need to read the ntsb report before I go and start blaming people. Could be it was an avoidable accident if the pilot had done a better preflight. Just too early to say. My go-to emotion in such scenarios is pity rather than anger. Imagine sitting on the side of the road dying in a car wreck as busy bodies rubberneck their way past at 70mph. That's you. That's a pretty dumb comparison, hero. The attitude on this forum sickens me. Do you sit around and wait for the police in an active shooter scenario also? Oh, do tell. How many active shooter scenarios have you been in? And how many runways have you sprinted across to hear the screams of those "burned in entrapment?" It's a dumb comparison because in a highway accident with rubberneckers, they are actively getting in the way and interfering with those that can legitimately help. It's the exact opposite thing. And I never said "don't go help, I would never do that." A highway is quite a bit different than an active, controlled runway. But when the tower specifically tells you to not cross his movement areas then I'd presume he's got good reason for it. You have no idea of what's going on. Maybe he knows CFR is going to beat you there and he doesn't want you getting in the way. Maybe it's because he's got other aircraft to deal with that need the runway and/or taxiway and he doesn't want you to get in the way. Maybe it's because he knows the plane crashed right next to the fuel farm or some other hazardous area and is concerned for your safety. See a theme? You lack information. There are better ways to handle it. The lineman has a direct line to the tower? Try coordinating. Talk to the tower controller before you go breaking the law. Tell him who you are, where you are, and how you can help. Get a fucking clearance. Maybe tower has an important reason for you to not cross and can communicate it clearly to you. But anyone that has been told directly to not violate a movement area and rushes in headlong anyways without any info is a fucking idiot. Once you've done that you'd damn well better save a plane full of nuns, orphans, and spotted owls so your lawyer has something to work with assuming you live through it. Now, if it's an uncontrolled field with no on-field CFR, then yeah... get your ass over there and see if you can help. If it is controlled but tower says "no one's on final, you're clear to cross, beware of inbound fire trucks, monitor this freq..." then yeah, get your ass over there to see if you can help. These are but some of the reasons why I said it's a "tough call". I wasn't there and didn't want to armchair quarterback it. You weren't there either. But there are factors that need to be considered before fools rush in. That's a far cry from highway rubbernecking. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 9:46:30 AM EDT
[#26]
^^^
Not running to help me in a downed plane because a shadow in a building somewhere said not to won't get me buying the beers. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 2:39:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The attitude on this forum sickens me. Do you sit around and wait for the police in an active shooter scenario also? Huh, same thing I was thinking.... And not for the reason you think. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 4:12:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^^ Not running to help me in a downed plane because a shadow in a building somewhere said not to won't get me buying the beers. If you crash that good lookin Navion when I'm around then Id run across all 5 parallels of KATL and an 8 lane highway to finish you off with my bare hands. |
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Posted: 4/17/2016 4:29:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^^ Not running to help me in a downed plane because a shadow in a building somewhere said not to won't get me buying the beers. In one accident, where I was the first to arrive, and I helped the victims down off of a Navion wing. This CFI girl had actually landed a C-152 on top of a beautiful Navion. The two airplnes mated together, one on top of the other. The tie down straps broke, and the whole monument slid forward about 100'. Other than that, everybody was A-OK. I felt really bad about calling George, the owner. He was the kind of guy who would show up several times a week just to clean the plugs and polish the plexiglas. He took the news in stride though, saying "If she had to crash onto an airplane, I'm glad she picked mine... It's a lot stronger than the others, and there isn't as much fuel in the wing..." He did buy another Navion, but it just wasn't the same. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 6:36:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire.
Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 9:52:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA WOW |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 4:03:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA Now to open another can of worms, the guys on the 421 forums think this was a fueling incident where the plane got a dose of JetA instead of 100LL. They say the plane had difficulty getting off the ground, was leaking before the crash and this would be consistent with JetA contamination. I always look in my tanks, sump, verify color and smell the fuel. If something doesn't seem right, JetA feels oily and 100LL will dry your skin out if you get it on you. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 4:08:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now to open another can of worms, the guys on the 421 forums think this was a fueling incident where the plane got a dose of JetA instead of 100LL. They say the plane had difficulty getting off the ground, was leaking before the crash and this would be consistent with JetA contamination. I always look in my tanks, sump, verify color and smell the fuel. If something doesn't seem right, JetA feels oily and 100LL will dry your skin out if you get it on you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA Now to open another can of worms, the guys on the 421 forums think this was a fueling incident where the plane got a dose of JetA instead of 100LL. They say the plane had difficulty getting off the ground, was leaking before the crash and this would be consistent with JetA contamination. I always look in my tanks, sump, verify color and smell the fuel. If something doesn't seem right, JetA feels oily and 100LL will dry your skin out if you get it on you. What was the plane make and model ? |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 9:42:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What was the plane make and model ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA Now to open another can of worms, the guys on the 421 forums think this was a fueling incident where the plane got a dose of JetA instead of 100LL. They say the plane had difficulty getting off the ground, was leaking before the crash and this would be consistent with JetA contamination. I always look in my tanks, sump, verify color and smell the fuel. If something doesn't seem right, JetA feels oily and 100LL will dry your skin out if you get it on you. What was the plane make and model ? Cessna 421 |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 10:51:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA That Guy....is Immortal.... 
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Posted: 5/1/2016 1:56:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That Guy....is Immortal.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA That Guy....is Immortal.... "Are you going to the hospital?" "Nope, gonna rinse this hand off and go home and lay down." |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 9:04:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That Guy....is Immortal.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Security camera footage captures the moment a plane crashed into a tree and caught on fire. Source: WKRG - See more at: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=ebb_1461780295#sthash.I7k7GK5r.dpuf https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=izpFroyk4pA That Guy....is Immortal.... They say the Lord watches over fools, drunks, and children. |
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Posted: 5/2/2016 4:05:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Update on the 421 incident from the rumor mill: Apparently the airport the aircraft was leaving did not offer Jet-A and this has also been reported as a landing incident. I'll see if I can find anything else.
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Posted: 5/2/2016 8:16:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update on the 421 incident from the rumor mill: Apparently the airport the aircraft was leaving did not offer Jet-A and this has also been reported as a landing incident. I'll see if I can find anything else. I love that term. 
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Posted: 5/4/2016 8:41:37 PM EDT
[#40]
This seems relevant to the question of whether to help, so I'll share this story. My uncle was a helicopter pilot in the army, flew both Cobras and Hueys. He was stationed at Fort Benning, Ga and in training, lost his engine at daily low altitude. He auto-rotated into a field on the side of US-27. They went in hard, and it jammed the doors. The Huey caught on fire. A passing motorist saw the helicopter go down came to their aid, and had the presence of mind to grab a metal pipe or ax or something that happened to be in the back of his truck. He was able to free my uncle and the co-pilot by using the object to smash out the glass. Sadly several others in the back burned to death, but it would have been all of them if it weren't for a quick thinking civilian.
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