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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:09:29 PM EDT
[#1]
I think the bottom really fell out of the market once they started growing concord grapes here rather than flying them over fresh every day from france. After that it really wasn't economical.
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:16:54 PM EDT
[#2]
All GD asshatery aside.... I don't think they could make them cost effective. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:27:39 PM EDT
[#3]
We can't have nice speedy things because of the whiney, panzy, tree-hugging Democrats.
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:33:18 PM EDT
[#4]
Sonic booms
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:34:00 PM EDT
[#5]
My understanding is that the Concorde program was never Profitable. The tickets were crazy expensive but still needed government money to operate. Also sonic booms are not allowed over the continental USA.
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:34:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All GD asshatery aside.... I don't think they could make them cost effective. It was a joke.  We can make jokes in technical forums, sometimes. Pilots make jokes. Mechanics probably do too... but hey, I don't know.
I agree, they weren't cost effective and never really were planned to be cost effective. From what I recall reading during my research of this, the advent of a 747 wide body carrying a massive amount of people and stuff for significantly less money really solidified the concorde and other SST products into prestige showpieces than anything else. The amount of drag that you get when you approach and then pass mach 1 is huge. Cost is huge, maintenance is huge, and demand is nil. Demand is limited because there aren't a lot of places aside from the ocean that you can legally be making sonic booms, and making an aircraft so complex that it can fly supersonic over mabe 10% of its route is not really worth it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 5:35:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sonic booms And flight attendants from Too-loose France. 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 7:02:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sonic booms That is the tree huggers was complaining about. The bigger reason was the Oil Crisis. Cheap oil went out the door. What made the money for BA was that they charged the price according to public perception. Based on a survey from office secutaries. Forgot to add that the Boeing 2707 would made the Concorde look dated. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 7:09:24 PM EDT
[#9]
When I was a kid we heard sonic booms on a regular basis. It was those "shit-hot" fighter pilots with mustaches in their "Huns" and all the other "Century Series" made in the USA goodies.
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Posted: 1/24/2016 7:51:56 PM EDT
[#10]
In the mid '80's I was flying from Ohio to Republic Field (home of the P-47, F-105) on Long Island when we got permission to fly over Kennedy just as the Concord was taking off. It was great seeing it roll out and climb like a fighter plane. It didn't take much time to climb to our 12,000 altitude and into the clouds above. I wished that I had a video camera with me
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Posted: 1/24/2016 7:58:00 PM EDT
[#11]
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program.
Same with the Russian Concordski. 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 8:09:08 PM EDT
[#12]
I worked for years in England. The Brits teased me about how the US spent MORE on SST than France and England did on Concorde...then we abandoned it.
Ray |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 8:38:20 PM EDT
[#13]
*puts aviation snob hat on
The correct way to refer to her is Concorde...delete the "the" /snob hat The reason she isn't flying any longer is that it wasn't a sustainable business model. Between stifling regulation (fuel consumption and noise) and the costs to produce her specialty items it just wasn't profitable to fly Concorde. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 8:53:20 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm still angry at BA. Branson offered to buy and operate all of the Concordes. |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 9:44:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program. Same with the Russian Concordski.
http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg Were was this pic taken ? |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 9:54:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were was this pic taken ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program. Same with the Russian Concordski. http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg Were was this pic taken ? That's a horrible photoshop |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were was this pic taken ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program. Same with the Russian Concordski. http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg Were was this pic taken ? Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:08:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...
Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum yeah.....I just found it.....http://sinsheim.technik-museum.de/en/tupolev-tu-144 
Looks like a cool museum 
_(6944084648).jpg)
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:11:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Eta... Beat like Harry Ried
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program. Same with the Russian Concordski. http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg Were was this pic taken ? That's a horrible photoshop Quote HistoryQuoted:
The main reason for them was the civillian side of the supersonic bomber program. Same with the Russian Concordski. http://www.strangevehicles.com/images/content/8021.jpg Were was this pic taken ? That's a horrible photoshop Tu-144D#77112 on display at Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum, Germany Also used as a NASA research project. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:13:25 PM EDT
[#20]
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I worked for years in England. The Brits teased me about how the US spent MORE on SST than France and England did on Concorde...then we abandoned it. Ray We have a fleet of B1's in service. What do they have? 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:17:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Tu-160
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:24:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have a fleet of B1's in service. What do they have? http://www.aviationspectator.com/files/images/B-1B-Lancer-59.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I worked for years in England. The Brits teased me about how the US spent MORE on SST than France and England did on Concorde...then we abandoned it. Ray We have a fleet of B1's in service. What do they have? http://www.aviationspectator.com/files/images/B-1B-Lancer-59.jpg The Tu-160 
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:37:48 PM EDT
[#23]
I miss hearing those sonic booms. I used to hear the booms in the nice weather on the back deck around 8:45AM drinking coffee. Once is got past Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket boom...boom super sonic flight time..
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Posted: 1/24/2016 10:46:45 PM EDT
[#24]
I never got to hear the sonic booms. But it sure hell rattled the windows of my high school during French class on it's mid-week departures from Dulles. Probably at about 3000ft. I got video of the last arrival of the one in the Udvar-Hazy now.
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Posted: 1/25/2016 12:39:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a joke. We can make jokes in technical forums, sometimes. Pilots make jokes. Mechanics probably do too... but hey, I don't know.
I agree, they weren't cost effective and never really were planned to be cost effective. From what I recall reading during my research of this, the advent of a 747 wide body carrying a massive amount of people and stuff for significantly less money really solidified the concorde and other SST products into prestige showpieces than anything else. The amount of drag that you get when you approach and then pass mach 1 is huge. Cost is huge, maintenance is huge, and demand is nil. Demand is limited because there aren't a lot of places aside from the ocean that you can legally be making sonic booms, and making an aircraft so complex that it can fly supersonic over mabe 10% of its route is not really worth it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All GD asshatery aside.... I don't think they could make them cost effective. It was a joke. We can make jokes in technical forums, sometimes. Pilots make jokes. Mechanics probably do too... but hey, I don't know.
I agree, they weren't cost effective and never really were planned to be cost effective. From what I recall reading during my research of this, the advent of a 747 wide body carrying a massive amount of people and stuff for significantly less money really solidified the concorde and other SST products into prestige showpieces than anything else. The amount of drag that you get when you approach and then pass mach 1 is huge. Cost is huge, maintenance is huge, and demand is nil. Demand is limited because there aren't a lot of places aside from the ocean that you can legally be making sonic booms, and making an aircraft so complex that it can fly supersonic over mabe 10% of its route is not really worth it. Pilots do make jokes. Sometimes it's so hard not to laugh or lose your rhythm. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 1:32:29 AM EDT
[#26]
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon.
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Posted: 1/25/2016 6:42:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the big issue is Ken Ricci willing to find people willing to fly them for free. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 6:44:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 11:02:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. @14,000 feet
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Posted: 1/25/2016 2:43:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@14,000 feet Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. @14,000 feet You've been there, too? |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 2:59:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've been there, too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. @14,000 feet You've been there, too? I have gotten fuel critical in a Lear 25 doing that BS. Who am I kidding I was fuel critical when I taxied out in a Lear 25 |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 3:20:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have gotten fuel critical in a Lear 25 doing that BS. Who am I kidding I was fuel critical when I taxied out in a Lear 25 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the demand for them will be limited. Great for trans oceanic routes, but even if you can go Mach 50, you'll still be slowed to 280 250 miles from KTEB. @14,000 feet You've been there, too? I have gotten fuel critical in a Lear 25 doing that BS. Who am I kidding I was fuel critical when I taxied out in a Lear 25 Where did you launch from, ABE? |
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Posted: 1/25/2016 3:47:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I miss hearing those sonic booms. I used to hear the booms in the nice weather on the back deck around 8:45AM drinking coffee. Once is got past Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket boom...boom super sonic flight time.. I never heard sonic booms from Concorde growing up in southwest Nebraska. But we had them all the time. Or quite frequently anyway. Never knew what made them. But several years later when maps were printed showing the turn around points for the SR71s...well...guess who was under those points. 
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Posted: 1/26/2016 12:55:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the big issue is Ken Ricci willing to find people willing to fly them for free. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the big issue is Ken Ricci willing to find people willing to fly them for free. I doubt there would be much trouble finding some people to do that. I could be wrong. They probably aren't the ones you would want flying, but they are still out there. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 1:03:39 AM EDT
[#36]
In Aviation, Efficiency is everything. We will have SST as soon as we have a new, cheaper fuel alternative.
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Posted: 1/26/2016 2:35:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt there would be much trouble finding some people to do that. I could be wrong. They probably aren't the ones you would want flying, but they are still out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am under the impression that supersonic business jets are on the horizon. I think the big issue is Ken Ricci willing to find people willing to fly them for free. I doubt there would be much trouble finding some people to do that. I could be wrong. They probably aren't the ones you would want flying, but they are still out there. That would be the Corporate Wings/Friends of Ken contingent. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 3:33:06 AM EDT
[#38]
I saw a Concorde in person once at the Miami Airport and was surprised at how small the airplane was.
As it takes a whole lot more fuel to go 2x the speed of sound rather than .9x the speed of sound and with a low seating capacity, it wasn't cost effective. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 3:48:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Aviation, Efficiency is everything. We will have SST as soon as we have a new, cheaper fuel alternative. Or a significantly more efficient SST... Same with the LRSB. |
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Posted: 1/26/2016 11:08:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Concorde was a national vanity project. It was never profitable. Restrictions on supersonic flight over populated areas greatly restricted its flight envelope. Fuel prices crippled the project before it even got off the ground. It was an interesting technology demonstrator, little more.
It was conceived in an era where air travel was something of a luxury. The airline market morphed into a commodity business where low cost was the most important factor. |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 6:33:38 PM EDT
[#41]
what's the big deal over the sonic booms? unless it's the middle of the night I don't find them nearly as objectionable as jake brakes, uncorked liter bikes or loud stereos, all of which intrude on my peace and quiet far more frequently for longer duration than any sonic boom would.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/29/2016 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what's the big deal over the sonic booms? unless it's the middle of the night I don't find them nearly as objectionable as jake brakes, uncorked liter bikes or loud stereos, all of which intrude on my peace and quiet far more frequently for longer duration than any sonic boom would. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile People are idiots. They buy houses next to airports then whine about the noise |
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Posted: 1/31/2016 2:27:51 PM EDT
[#43]
And broken windows were a serious problem in towns near AFB's in the 1950's and 60's.
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Posted: 1/31/2016 2:45:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And broken windows were a serious problem in towns near AFB's in the 1950's and 60's. And the late 80s, due to one of my favorite USAF dudes. |
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Posted: 2/1/2016 12:58:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what's the big deal over the sonic booms? unless it's the middle of the night I don't find them nearly as objectionable as jake brakes, uncorked liter bikes or loud stereos, all of which intrude on my peace and quiet far more frequently for longer duration than any sonic boom would. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Back in the 50's the military got pretty comfortable breaking the sound barrier and did it over US soil constantly. Farmers started complaining that it was making the milk cows dry up and the chickens would stop laying eggs. There were constant complaints about the noise and damage it caused. There was a time when the Air Force generated sonic booms so prolifically that it was determined a test was needed to see how well the US population could carry on living with such a noise nuisance. So they chose a city that seemed to be most accepting of the booms, Oklahoma City. Operation Bongo II was carried out over the course of 6 months in 1964. In that time they hit OKC with over 1200 sonic booms of various intensities in order to examine in detail the economic and sociological effects on the city. People lost their fucking minds and the test had to be cancelled early. These kinds of experiences are what led to the prohibition of generating sonic booms over US soil. You might not mind it much as an aviation enthusiast, especially considering how rarely it occurs and when it does its usually a mild one coming off an aircraft at high altitude and generous horizontal distance. But if it was happening sporadically 10 times a day, right over head and cracking windows and plaster (as they commonly tend to do) then you'd probably harbor a different opinion. |
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Posted: 2/4/2016 11:56:45 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I worked for years in England. The Brits teased me about how the US spent MORE on SST than France and England did on Concorde...then we abandoned it. Ray We have a fleet of B1's in service. What do they have? http://www.aviationspectator.com/files/images/B-1B-Lancer-59.jpg The Tu-160 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/2013_Moscow_Victory_Day_Parade_%2857%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/%D0%AD%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81_%D0%A2%D1%83-160_02_%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE_3.jpg The British are flying TU-160s!!!??? FML, I had no idea.
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