Ferrari of the sky?

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Posted: 3/23/2015 9:25:09 AM EDT

I was out making the rounds at work yesterday and decided to grab a cup of coffee, park at the end of the runway at KSLC and work on some reports. I pulled into my spot and rolled down the window to listen to the noise music and heard a sound different that I had ever heard before. I looked just in time to catch a Piaggio taking off. I didn't have a chance to try for a picture as it was moving too quick. I had never seen one of these before. I was surprised at what seemed like a very small wing surface. When I got back to the office later in the shift, I did a search on the web to figure out what I had seen. Found the pic below and figured out what it was and did a little reading about the plane and the ties to Ferrari.

Anybody here fly / ever flown one? Seems like a pretty cool plane, but everything I found read like a sales brochure, so I was curious about some real life feedback about the plane.

Gratuitous pic grabbed from the web:

Posted: 3/23/2015 9:59:42 AM EDT

[#1]

I have around 1200 hours in the Avanti I & II and enjoyed the plane. It wasn't the most forgiving of aircraft, especially on the ground with a strong crosswind. The nosewheel steering was a total mess, it had to be engaged with the rudder centered or whatever input you had in would command an equal amount of steering input. I struggled with this initially as I was always reaching for a tiller from past experience in larger jets. Once you got used to it and developed a technique it was fine. Systems wise it was an interesting aircraft, especially the anit-ice system. The forward wing (not a canard) was electrically heated, main wing was heated via bleed air, intake lips had boots, and the props had no heat as the engine exhaust was supposed to do the job.

The original design of the aircraft was from the Lear family that was later picked up by the Italians with financial support from Ferrari. IIRC the company is now primarily owned by the Tata group which is Indian.

Posted: 3/23/2015 5:01:10 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I was out making the rounds at work yesterday and decided to grab a cup of coffee, park at the end of the runway at KSLC and work on some reports. I pulled into my spot and rolled down the window to listen to the noise music and heard a sound different that I had ever heard before. I looked just in time to catch a Piaggio taking off. I didn't have a chance to try for a picture as it was moving too quick. I had never seen one of these before. I was surprised at what seemed like a very small wing surface. When I got back to the office later in the shift, I did a search on the web to figure out what I had seen. Found the pic below and figured out what it was and did a little reading about the plane and the ties to Ferrari.

Anybody here fly / ever flown one? Seems like a pretty cool plane, but everything I found read like a sales brochure, so I was curious about some real life feedback about the plane.

Gratuitous pic grabbed from the web:

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/user/onesureshot/media/image.jpg1_zpswxeghspp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/image.jpg1_zpswxeghspp.jpg</a>

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Do you work near the airport? If you do that often there's a chance you've seen me bouncing on the runway there. lol I also live about 20 min from the airport.

Posted: 3/23/2015 5:59:47 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:

Do you work near the airport? If you do that often there's a chance you've seen me bouncing on the runway there. lol I also live about 20 min from the airport.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I was out making the rounds at work yesterday and decided to grab a cup of coffee, park at the end of the runway at KSLC and work on some reports. I pulled into my spot and rolled down the window to listen to the noise music and heard a sound different that I had ever heard before. I looked just in time to catch a Piaggio taking off. I didn't have a chance to try for a picture as it was moving too quick. I had never seen one of these before. I was surprised at what seemed like a very small wing surface. When I got back to the office later in the shift, I did a search on the web to figure out what I had seen. Found the pic below and figured out what it was and did a little reading about the plane and the ties to Ferrari.

Anybody here fly / ever flown one? Seems like a pretty cool plane, but everything I found read like a sales brochure, so I was curious about some real life feedback about the plane.

Gratuitous pic grabbed from the web:

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/user/onesureshot/media/image.jpg1_zpswxeghspp.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/onesureshot/image.jpg1_zpswxeghspp.jpg</a>

Do you work near the airport? If you do that often there's a chance you've seen me bouncing on the runway there. lol I also live about 20 min from the airport.

It varies, kind of depends on how busy the shift is that day. I will either park near the gate on the west end of North Temple, or on the north side of the old blue hangar that sits closest to the south end of the ramp. If you ever notice a white Ford F-250 with a green stripe and a light bar sitting in either of those spots, wag your wings.

What do you fly?

Posted: 3/23/2015 8:38:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Noisy sob. Worse than a Beech Starship. Haven't had one come in local airport lately.

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:04:42 AM EDT

[#5]

When I first saw the pusher props I was thinking Starship, but then noticed the different wing shape as it banked away from me and realized I was watching a different animal. Definitely a very distinct sound.

Posted: 3/24/2015 10:11:07 AM EDT

[#6]

I saw a Starship fly over my office a few years back (I work near the airport) Everybody on here thought I saw a Piaggio...I had to run down airport and take a damn pic to prove it

Posted: 3/24/2015 1:17:18 PM EDT

[#7]

The sound is so telling.

I had one fly over one of my favorite fishing holes recently on an overcast day. Everyone was looking around trying to figure what the hell the sound was

Posted: 3/24/2015 1:27:46 PM EDT

[#8]

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Quoted:
I saw a Starship fly over my office a few years back (I work near the airport) Everybody on here thought I saw a Piaggio...I had to run down airport and take a damn pic to prove it

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You saw one of a handful of those still in existence. Beech tried to buy them all back several years ago, but there were a few that held out. We used to have one at my home airport that belonged to a photography company--they donated it to the Pima Air Museum in AZ.

Posted: 3/24/2015 2:06:51 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
I have around 1200 hours in the Avanti I & II and enjoyed the plane. It wasn't the most forgiving of aircraft, especially on the ground with a strong crosswind. The nosewheel steering was a total mess, it had to be engaged with the rudder centered or whatever input you had in would command an equal amount of steering input. I struggled with this initially as I was always reaching for a tiller from past experience in larger jets. Once you got used to it and developed a technique it was fine. Systems wise it was an interesting aircraft, especially the anit-ice system. The forward wing (not a canard) was electrically heated, main wing was heated via bleed air, intake lips had boots, and the props had no heat as the engine exhaust was supposed to do the job.

The original design of the aircraft was from the Lear family that was later picked up by the Italians with financial support from Ferrari. IIRC the company is now primarily owned by the Tata group which is Indian.

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How in the world do you control it with an engine out? The rudder is so close to the engine.

And, if the forward airfoil doesn't rotate, it must be pretty sensitive in pitch axis.

I'm sure it's all engineered into it: just not familiar with the aircraft.

Posted: 3/24/2015 4:48:31 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

How in the world do you control it with an engine out? The rudder is so close to the engine.

And, if the forward airfoil doesn't rotate, it must be pretty sensitive in pitch axis.

I'm sure it's all engineered into it: just not familiar with the aircraft.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I have around 1200 hours in the Avanti I & II and enjoyed the plane. It wasn't the most forgiving of aircraft, especially on the ground with a strong crosswind. The nosewheel steering was a total mess, it had to be engaged with the rudder centered or whatever input you had in would command an equal amount of steering input. I struggled with this initially as I was always reaching for a tiller from past experience in larger jets. Once you got used to it and developed a technique it was fine. Systems wise it was an interesting aircraft, especially the anit-ice system. The forward wing (not a canard) was electrically heated, main wing was heated via bleed air, intake lips had boots, and the props had no heat as the engine exhaust was supposed to do the job.

The original design of the aircraft was from the Lear family that was later picked up by the Italians with financial support from Ferrari. IIRC the company is now primarily owned by the Tata group which is Indian.

How in the world do you control it with an engine out? The rudder is so close to the engine.

And, if the forward airfoil doesn't rotate, it must be pretty sensitive in pitch axis.

I'm sure it's all engineered into it: just not familiar with the aircraft.

It doesn't matter how close the rudder is to the engines. It only matters how close the rudder is to the CG.

Posted: 3/24/2015 5:15:54 PM EDT

[#11]

You realize that the rudder and CG are on two different axes.

Posted: 3/24/2015 6:18:28 PM EDT

[#12]

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Quoted:
You realize that the rudder and CG are on two different axes.

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I do; I guess I didn't word it very well.

It just looks like the CG would be way aft. Short lever arm for rudder to counteract yaw on an engine-out twin.

Maybe the rudder is oversized?

Posted: 3/24/2015 6:25:03 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

How in the world do you control it with an engine out? The rudder is so close to the engine.

And, if the forward airfoil doesn't rotate, it must be pretty sensitive in pitch axis.

I'm sure it's all engineered into it: just not familiar with the aircraft.

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have around 1200 hours in the Avanti I & II and enjoyed the plane. It wasn't the most forgiving of aircraft, especially on the ground with a strong crosswind. The nosewheel steering was a total mess, it had to be engaged with the rudder centered or whatever input you had in would command an equal amount of steering input. I struggled with this initially as I was always reaching for a tiller from past experience in larger jets. Once you got used to it and developed a technique it was fine. Systems wise it was an interesting aircraft, especially the anit-ice system. The forward wing (not a canard) was electrically heated, main wing was heated via bleed air, intake lips had boots, and the props had no heat as the engine exhaust was supposed to do the job.

The original design of the aircraft was from the Lear family that was later picked up by the Italians with financial support from Ferrari. IIRC the company is now primarily owned by the Tata group which is Indian.

How in the world do you control it with an engine out? The rudder is so close to the engine.

And, if the forward airfoil doesn't rotate, it must be pretty sensitive in pitch axis.

I'm sure it's all engineered into it: just not familiar with the aircraft.

It's very docile on a single engine, not too much to handle. My initial training was done in the aircraft as the sim was not yet constructed at FSI PBI and never had controllability problems in the aircraft (SE).

The forward wing has electrically actuated flaps the synchronize with the main wing flaps. When those forward flaps failed to lower (it happens) the end result is nothing to worry about.

As far as pitch sensitivity, the entire horizontal stabilizer moved to affect pitch trim and when it failed it was a pretty big deal. There was a dual toggle switch on the aft pedestal used as a backup source of power to the stabilizer motor but under certain conditions you could be left with no stabilizer trim capability.

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