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Posted: 2/27/2015 3:50:42 PM EDT
And yet, the airlines have pushed concessionary contracts. Better pay and work rules seems like it would solve the "problem" on a more permanent basis.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 4:09:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:09:01 PM EDT
[#2]
Did you read it?
1 year of work owed to piedmont for every 100 hours subsidized to 'pay back' your company debt.  no thanks |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:12:15 PM EDT
[#3]
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Did you read it? 1 year of work owed to piedmont for every 100 hours subsidized. 300->1500 hours = 12 years of work for piedmont to 'pay back' your company debt. no thanks
"Within" 300 hours = 3 years owed |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:20:05 PM EDT
[#4]
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Did you read it? 1 year of work owed to piedmont for every 100 hours subsidized to 'pay back' your company debt. no thanks
Yes, I read it. I'm sure they will have plenty of applicants. It just makes me shake my head at this industry. Since I've started flying we have gone through pay for training, to 200 hour new hires, to this. If they airlines paid decent money, and had good contracts, there would never be a problem getting pilots. SWA just dropped the 737 Type requirement, so perhaps the mythical pilot shortage is upon us. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:41:03 PM EDT
[#5]
It's not a pilot shortage - it's a shortage of pilots willing to take the jobs for what the airlines are paying.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:31:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. Yep. It only took 27 years. That muthafucka.  . 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:33:41 PM EDT
[#7]
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It's not a pilot shortage - it's a shortage of pilots willing to take the jobs for what the airlines are paying. It's a pilot shortage, no matter how you look at it. That is, compared to the pilot glut we've suffered through for the past two decades. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:36:37 PM EDT
[#8]
I owe my soul to the company store....................
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:57:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:29:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Those same 10,000 people sent apps to AA/ Delta/SWA/UAL and Fedex. How many pilots are those companies going to hire in the next 5 years? Not every person is going to get the dream job, but every person who wants it bad enough, and who isn't a fuck up, will be able to earn a salary that puts them in the top 20% of America workers. From my perspective as a poor white boy, that's not half bad. Your definition of "shortage" is very different from someone who started in the late 80's Our perception is colored by our experiance. Up until around '98, except for a couple companies, you had to literally Pay for Training at your regional airline. $10,000 directly to FSI, and you could still wash out with no refund. It's never going to be an "easy" career, but the opportunities going forward will be better than at any time in history. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 8:54:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 8:58:19 PM EDT
[#12]
It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:52:48 PM EDT
[#13]
That's funny .i use to work for Allegheny ( now Piedmont) back in the early 90's. I guess no one wants to fly a dash-8 anymore.lol
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Posted: 2/27/2015 9:59:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those same 10,000 people sent apps to AA/ Delta/SWA/UAL and Fedex. How many pilots are those companies going to hire in the next 5 years? Not every person is going to get the dream job, but every person who wants it bad enough, and who isn't a fuck up, will be able to earn a salary that puts them in the top 20% of America workers. From my perspective as a poor white boy, that's not half bad. Your definition of "shortage" is very different from someone who started in the late 80's Our perception is colored by our experiance. Up until around '98, except for a couple companies, you had to literally Pay for Training at your regional airline. $10,000 directly to FSI, and you could still wash out with no refund. It's never going to be an "easy" career, but the opportunities going forward will be better than at any time in history. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Those same 10,000 people sent apps to AA/ Delta/SWA/UAL and Fedex. How many pilots are those companies going to hire in the next 5 years? Not every person is going to get the dream job, but every person who wants it bad enough, and who isn't a fuck up, will be able to earn a salary that puts them in the top 20% of America workers. From my perspective as a poor white boy, that's not half bad. Your definition of "shortage" is very different from someone who started in the late 80's Our perception is colored by our experiance. Up until around '98, except for a couple companies, you had to literally Pay for Training at your regional airline. $10,000 directly to FSI, and you could still wash out with no refund. It's never going to be an "easy" career, but the opportunities going forward will be better than at any time in history. I guess I'm lucky .I started flying in the 80's and worked for my fare share of different commuter airlines and never ever had to pay for training. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 10:04:53 PM EDT
[#15]
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What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? No, we are talking about applicants with many thousands of hours of TPIC, well seasoned ATPs. The impending pilot shortage won't hit for another decade and when it doesn't they'll just use the European model with multi-crew licenses. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:56:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. $18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:03:51 AM EDT
[#17]
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It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:07:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. $18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. That's precisely the problem... I still want to fly, but fuck, I'm making more sweeping floors and shipping shit in a die shop than I would with 50-100k in debt over my head flying for a regional right now. 
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:41:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's funny .i use to work for Allegheny ( now Piedmont) back in the early 90's. I guess no one wants to fly a dash-8 anymore.lol They are supposedly getting about 15 ERJs, but many of the -100s have to be reaching the end of their service lives. I think they had either a 60 or 80k cycle limit. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:41:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? A restricted ATP will get you a number of interviews at any Regional. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:48:50 AM EDT
[#21]
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That's precisely the problem... I still want to fly, but fuck, I'm making more sweeping floors and shipping shit in a die shop than I would with 50-100k in debt over my head flying for a regional right now. I started in the aviation program at Ohio University 20 years ago. At that time the instructors were struggling to pay bills, most had second (or third) jobs, and all of them said the job prospects for pilots were dim for the upcoming decades. I went ahead and switched to accounting and that has infinitely paid off financially. I figured the aviation industry would have settled down by now so it is kind of surprising to see the same problem 20 years later. I have kept my private certificate current and made good use of the local rental fleets because I enjoy flying. Just recently, the wife and I have started looking for a nice 172 or even a 182 to buy. For anyone that enjoys flying, I would suggest finding a career that actually makes money and then using that to fund your flying passion. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 10:48:02 AM EDT
[#22]
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A restricted ATP will get you a number of interviews at any Regional. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? A restricted ATP will get you a number of interviews at any Regional. A pulse and a pilot certificate is all you've ever needed for a regional but I know guys getting the "no thanks" from UPS that have over 8,000 hours. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:41:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are supposedly getting about 15 ERJs, but many of the -100s have to be reaching the end of their service lives. I think they had either a 60 or 80k cycle limit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That's funny .i use to work for Allegheny ( now Piedmont) back in the early 90's. I guess no one wants to fly a dash-8 anymore.lol They are supposedly getting about 15 ERJs, but many of the -100s have to be reaching the end of their service lives. I think they had either a 60 or 80k cycle limit. That's what I heard .but I think those seats will go pretty senior. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:58:06 AM EDT
[#24]
That is one screwed up industry, and I'm just glad to be out of it. It was a good job for a while, but after 20 years I was ready to move on. So I did.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:06:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. What constitutes "qualified" these days? 1500 hours + an ATP or 250hrs + Commercial? Kindly disregard misspelling of of "Boogerhook" 
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Posted: 2/28/2015 12:20:58 PM EDT
[#26]
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It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. Apparently CommuteAir is now paying for up to four hotel rooms per month in base for commuters. I hear envoy is considering similar "incentives" to try and attract and retain people. A quick look at APC it seems like most of the regionals still have starting pay of $21-25K/year. I don't think a few free hotels is going to do it. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:10:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. $18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. I know a guy that services the aircraft coming in and out of CMH. No long haul 747 traffic. The biggest jets are 737's and are usually short haul. He makes more money sweeping out the aircraft and pumping the shitter than 80% of the pilots. I remember a helicopter pilot in my guard unit crowing about getting a 14 thousand dollars a year job at a tv station He was making half that an entry level truck driver made. He did however get to sleep with the hot anchor babe. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:14:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know a guy that services the aircraft coming in and out of CMH. No long haul 747 traffic. The biggest jets are 737's and are usually short haul. He makes more money sweeping out the aircraft and pumping the shitter than 80% of the pilots. I remember a helicopter pilot in my guard unit crowing about getting a 14 thousand dollars a year job at a tv station He was making half that an entry level truck driver made. He did however get to sleep with the hot anchor babe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. $18K? Is that full time? Why would anyone do that? It would be wiser to become an accountant/lawyer/doctor and just buy a nice plane for personal use to get your flying fix. I know a guy that services the aircraft coming in and out of CMH. No long haul 747 traffic. The biggest jets are 737's and are usually short haul. He makes more money sweeping out the aircraft and pumping the shitter than 80% of the pilots. I remember a helicopter pilot in my guard unit crowing about getting a 14 thousand dollars a year job at a tv station He was making half that an entry level truck driver made. He did however get to sleep with the hot anchor babe. Between that and getting to fly more than most normal pilots, there is something to be said for truly enjoying your job. 
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Ah... A close cousin of the "training contract" surfaces from the murky depths of regional airline HR departments.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:38:10 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:10:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find.
You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:31:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Was "recently" back in the 70's, or is he going for best of classic class?
At least it's got dual omni's, and those cool Narco MK12's. New avionics would probably give him another 200 pounds useful payload.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I learned to fly in a J3 in 1964 my basic panel had only a needle/ball run by a venturi, airspeed indicator and a mag compass There was no electrical system, no appliances, I saw this Super Cub at a flight school recently, my how things have changed. <a href="http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/beech18/media/Modern%20Super%20Cub_zpsqixjbykh.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a552/beech18/Modern%20Super%20Cub_zpsqixjbykh.jpg</a> |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:18:55 AM EDT
[#33]
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That's what I heard .but I think those seats will go pretty senior. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's funny .i use to work for Allegheny ( now Piedmont) back in the early 90's. I guess no one wants to fly a dash-8 anymore.lol They are supposedly getting about 15 ERJs, but many of the -100s have to be reaching the end of their service lives. I think they had either a 60 or 80k cycle limit. That's what I heard .but I think those seats will go pretty senior. Oh yeah. The ERJs have just been given a new lease on life because gas is cheap and most legacies only start scoping at 51 seats, IIRC. We'll see how long that lasts. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:22:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find. You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. Decent QOL at Spirit. The HR departments are completely destroying anything approaching the predictable 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR career building blocks of yesteryear. Now, many Nationals won't hire the 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR guy because they are afraid he'll split to a legacy, and I've heard of FDX turning down people because they were "too qualified." |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:47:16 AM EDT
[#35]
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Decent QOL at Spirit. The HR departments are completely destroying anything approaching the predictable 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR career building blocks of yesteryear. Now, many Nationals won't hire the 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR guy because they are afraid he'll split to a legacy, and I've heard of FDX turning down people because they were "too qualified." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find. You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. Decent QOL at Spirit. The HR departments are completely destroying anything approaching the predictable 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR career building blocks of yesteryear. Now, many Nationals won't hire the 1000TPIC/LCA/LoR guy because they are afraid he'll split to a legacy, and I've heard of FDX turning down people because they were "too qualified." Honestly, I think the "Get The Right Experience To Get Hired" thing has always been a myth. Pilots tend to focus on that because it's logical, but the hiring process is anything but. Sure, there is perhaps a sweet spot in Experiance and Age, but we tend to exaggerate the importance of Fight Time. We spend all energy getting our Experiance to where we think it needs to be, when in reality, it has more to do with Networking and simply working hard at getting the Interview and aceing it. As you said, you can just as easily be viewed "Over Qualified", as "Under Qualified". A company like Frontier or Spirit would certainly rather hire guys that are "Under (or Over) qualified" for a job at the majors. Fedex wouldn't worry too much about people jumping ship. They probably meant "Too Damned Old". (or something along those lines). Either way, don't put too much though into the "Logic" used. There isn't any. It's 60% Effort, 60% Who You Know, and 30% Luck and 37% Timing. You still looking? |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 9:49:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I learned to fly in a J3 in 1964 my basic panel had only a needle/ball run by a venturi, airspeed indicator and a mag compass There was no electrical system, no appliances, I saw this Super Cub at a flight school recently, my how things have changed. <a href="http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/beech18/media/Modern%20Super%20Cub_zpsqixjbykh.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a552/beech18/Modern%20Super%20Cub_zpsqixjbykh.jpg</a> Wow! That's quite a collection of avionics. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 10:35:51 AM EDT
[#37]
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A company like Frontier or Spirit would certainly rather hire guys that are "Under (or Over) qualified" for a job at the majors. Fedex wouldn't worry too much about people jumping ship. They probably meant "Too Damned Old". (or something along those lines). Either way, don't put too much though into the "Logic" used. There isn't any. It's 60% Effort, 60% Who You Know, and 30% Luck and 37% Timing. You still looking? I'd argue to the end result, its about 60% luck/timing, 37% Who you know, and 3% personal qualifications and effort. Yeah, still looking. My plan is finish my thousand to minimally qualify for UPS/FDX/WN. Then look for a decent place to chill until something permanent occurs for me or the bottom falls out of the industry again, whatever comes first. My career goal remains to be the senior F/O in the most junior equipment. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 1:31:44 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'd argue to the end result, its about 60% luck/timing, 37% Who you know, and 3% personal qualifications and effort. Yeah, still looking. My plan is finish my thousand to minimally qualify for UPS/FDX/WN. Then look for a decent place to chill until something permanent occurs for me or the bottom falls out of the industry again, whatever comes first. My career goal remains to be the senior F/O in the most junior equipment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A company like Frontier or Spirit would certainly rather hire guys that are "Under (or Over) qualified" for a job at the majors. Fedex wouldn't worry too much about people jumping ship. They probably meant "Too Damned Old". (or something along those lines). Either way, don't put too much though into the "Logic" used. There isn't any. It's 60% Effort, 60% Who You Know, and 30% Luck and 37% Timing. You still looking? I'd argue to the end result, its about 60% luck/timing, 37% Who you know, and 3% personal qualifications and effort. Yeah, still looking. My plan is finish my thousand to minimally qualify for UPS/FDX/WN. Then look for a decent place to chill until something permanent occurs for me or the bottom falls out of the industry again, whatever comes first. My career goal remains to be the senior F/O in the most junior equipment. You need to apply 187% effort. 
Hope you don't mind. I used your line in one of those conversations at 350 the other day. Got a chuckle out of it.
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Posted: 3/3/2015 5:08:49 PM EDT
[#39]
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Yes, I read it. I'm sure they will have plenty of applicants. It just makes me shake my head at this industry. Since I've started flying we have gone through pay for training, to 200 hour new hires, to this. If they airlines paid decent money, and had good contracts, there would never be a problem getting pilots. SWA just dropped the 737 Type requirement, so perhaps the mythical pilot shortage is upon us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did you read it? 1 year of work owed to piedmont for every 100 hours subsidized to 'pay back' your company debt. no thanks
Yes, I read it. I'm sure they will have plenty of applicants. It just makes me shake my head at this industry. Since I've started flying we have gone through pay for training, to 200 hour new hires, to this. If they airlines paid decent money, and had good contracts, there would never be a problem getting pilots. SWA just dropped the 737 Type requirement, so perhaps the mythical pilot shortage is upon us. It's here. We are losing enough pilots each month to the majors alone that our FULL classes each month are having a problem keeping up with it. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 5:09:33 PM EDT
[#40]
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I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Que the "it's happening" meme. Kit darby may be right.....this time. I don't think so really. There is a shortage of pilots willing to invest $100,000 to make $18,000. UPS just got 10,000 qualified apps for 100 positions, that doesn't sound like a shortage to me. You're only looking through the curtain of a huge window of things happening. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 5:11:07 PM EDT
[#41]
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A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 5:13:35 PM EDT
[#42]
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Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find. You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. Not now, you need to meet the atp requirements so that you have your ATP when you complete initial training. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 5:15:27 PM EDT
[#43]
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Oh yeah. The ERJs have just been given a new lease on life because gas is cheap and most legacies only start scoping at 51 seats, IIRC. We'll see how long that lasts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's funny .i use to work for Allegheny ( now Piedmont) back in the early 90's. I guess no one wants to fly a dash-8 anymore.lol They are supposedly getting about 15 ERJs, but many of the -100s have to be reaching the end of their service lives. I think they had either a 60 or 80k cycle limit. That's what I heard .but I think those seats will go pretty senior. Oh yeah. The ERJs have just been given a new lease on life because gas is cheap and most legacies only start scoping at 51 seats, IIRC. We'll see how long that lasts. As far as going senior, that isn't always the case. Just as an example at my airline we started flying the ERJ 175's out of Chicago. We have been getting 4 a month, up to 400. It's been a low seniority slot because people don't want to give up their QOL in the aircraft they are flying. In fact, it's a new hire class because there wasn't enough interest with the current pilot group. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 6:36:25 PM EDT
[#44]
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If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. Republic started offering sign on bonuses two years ago because the union voted down a 1st year pay raise. To make being an airline pilot an attractive career for the best and the brightest that "pay your dues" mentality needs to change. If you've got enough experience to be offered an airline job and you pass the training then you deserve a liveable wage. With the new ATP rule the regional salaries are just criminal. I'll be happy to go my entire career without ever flying an airliner because of the culture. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 10:10:23 PM EDT
[#45]
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Republic started offering sign on bonuses two years ago because the union voted down a 1st year pay raise. To make being an airline pilot an attractive career for the best and the brightest that "pay your dues" mentality needs to change. If you've got enough experience to be offered an airline job and you pass the training then you deserve a liveable wage. With the new ATP rule the regional salaries are just criminal. I'll be happy to go my entire career without ever flying an airliner because of the culture. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. Republic started offering sign on bonuses two years ago because the union voted down a 1st year pay raise. To make being an airline pilot an attractive career for the best and the brightest that "pay your dues" mentality needs to change. If you've got enough experience to be offered an airline job and you pass the training then you deserve a liveable wage. With the new ATP rule the regional salaries are just criminal. I'll be happy to go my entire career without ever flying an airliner because of the culture. Now this is a smart young man. |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 2:09:04 AM EDT
[#46]
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Not now, you need to meet the atp requirements so that you have your ATP when you complete initial training. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find. You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. Not now, you need to meet the atp requirements so that you have your ATP when you complete initial training. What are the real world flight time averages for getting hired by regionals these days? 1500 tt, and how many ME? |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 2:19:33 AM EDT
[#47]
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Now this is a smart young man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. Republic started offering sign on bonuses two years ago because the union voted down a 1st year pay raise. To make being an airline pilot an attractive career for the best and the brightest that "pay your dues" mentality needs to change. If you've got enough experience to be offered an airline job and you pass the training then you deserve a liveable wage. With the new ATP rule the regional salaries are just criminal. I'll be happy to go my entire career without ever flying an airliner because of the culture. Now this is a smart young man. Meh, not really. It's a Very shortsighted way of looking at things. There are some people who luck into one of those Golden Corporate jobs, but they are few and far between. Yes, there are good Pt.91 jobs out there, but the job security is even more tenuous than at the Airlines. You do work harder at the Airlines, but the career earnings are going to be much greater at any of the majors, compared to nearly any other gig. Plus, in Pt.121, when you finish the Parking Checklist, your life is your own, at least for a few days. From someone who has done both, this is a really big deal. In addition, Pt. 121 is statistically safer. Unlike some other professions, where they tend to over dramatize the danger, Pilots don't think about it much it at all. However, after reaching a certain point of age, experiance and responsibility, we begin to recognize our own mortality and become more risk averse. There are no guarantees of course, but it doesn't hurt to put the odds in your favor as much as possible. |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 4:03:14 AM EDT
[#48]
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Now this is a smart young man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It will be interesting to watch all the various techniques the regionals will try to fill cockpits without raising wages. A friend keeps trying to get me to come work with him at one of the Trans States Holdings group airlines. They are offering a sizable "Signing Bonus." So they are tacitly admitting the pay isn't enough. Why they don't just raise the pay scale i just don't understand. If every regional doesn't raise the pay then it won't work. Just think what happens if one regional raises the cost of operation and another doesn't. Who do you think is going to get the contract? It sucks, but that's how it is. Republic started offering sign on bonuses two years ago because the union voted down a 1st year pay raise. To make being an airline pilot an attractive career for the best and the brightest that "pay your dues" mentality needs to change. If you've got enough experience to be offered an airline job and you pass the training then you deserve a liveable wage. With the new ATP rule the regional salaries are just criminal. I'll be happy to go my entire career without ever flying an airliner because of the culture. Now this is a smart young man. Maybe but then again he's never flown for an airline so it's a limited view from where he sits. Personally, it's the culture I enjoy. I'm talking about the crews I fly with, not to mention the bennies and the money that just gets better every year. As far as pay changing? I agree it has to change. I never said it doesn't. I was just explaining what management looks at when it comes to raising pay. |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 4:04:43 AM EDT
[#49]
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What are the real world flight time averages for getting hired by regionals these days? 1500 tt, and how many ME? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Could a pilot get hired into this with 1300 SE recip and 20 hours multiengine time? Because if so, it would probably be worth it. It's easy to get the initial 1000 hours as a CFI, but ME jobs are hard to find. You could use your Blood Money to buy a couple hundred hours in a Seneca, get your first real job and you're on your way. Upgrades will be happening pretty fast, and even if you don't upgrade, you could get on with a carrier like Spririt within 3 years. Spirit is a bottom feeder carrier from the Pax perspective, but it's not a bad place to work for the pilots. Not now, you need to meet the atp requirements so that you have your ATP when you complete initial training. What are the real world flight time averages for getting hired by regionals these days? 1500 tt, and how many ME? I've seen 200 to 500 |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 12:05:13 PM EDT
[#50]
I think you're dead wrong about the pay and the workload in 121.
My first summer 135 season I made about what a regional FO makes, slightly more actually. My first year in a jet I made more than a 3 year FO but I have to work for it. I fuel the plane, I clean the plane, I do the flight plans and pick the FBOs, I sling the bags and I tow the plane to bed. My 121 buddies don't do any of that. They upgrade in 4 to 10 years, I upgrade in May with upgraded pay. My boss has made more than most captains at a major for the last 20 years and I'm on the same track. I should be making close to six figures again in about 4 years. At what regional can you make that in 5 years with the company without selling your soul? Captain pay on something like an XL is north of $100k which takes a while to get to at the regional level. Make a lateral jump to a major and you set yourself back to first year pay again. As far as lucking into a corporate job, I assure you luck has very little to do with it. I set a specific goal and busted my ass to get there. I'm a firm believer that luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. |
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