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Posted: 2/18/2015 8:14:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 9:17:19 PM EDT
[#2]
I wonder if that has anything to do with the R44 that crashed into the building here in December?

Link Posted: 2/18/2015 9:23:31 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Are screwed up rotorheads that obvious that a preflight would catch it?
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Yes
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 9:41:02 PM EDT
[#4]
If the mechanic was required to go on a check ride after maint... I bet there might be a better preflight with him/her participating!
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 10:55:19 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I wonder if that has anything to do with the R44 that crashed into the building here in December?

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That's my take on it.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 11:21:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 11:31:36 PM EDT
[#7]
There is a famous story fatal accident involving a 206 and rotorhead MX.  About 15 yrs ago in Canada mechanics were working on something with the head and had the "Jesus Nut" off the top.  It was replaced, but then later removed by a different mechanic to put some primer or paint on it.  The pilot for the a/c had witness or talked to the mechanic the day before that had reinstalled it.  Long story short, the next day he takes off without the "jesus nut".  The aircraft hovered and flew for over 10 minutes, then the head came off.  There was enough grip between the splines and head from the torque, but once he reduced power or got in a low enough CG to break the tension, that was it.

But moral to the story, do a preflight.  The pilot obviously didn't do a full preflight.  He may have done a walk around, but he didn't get up on a/c and look at the head.  Also, the mechanic that removed the nut never wrote it up or told anyone--he was not present the next day to stop them from flying.

Sounds like this is the same deal.  I have witness people take off with panels open, gas caps off, seat belts hanging out, ground handling wheels attached, oil dipsticks removed, etc.  Always do a preflight, and always do a final walk around before getting in.  And have a system to remove an aircraft from service (placard, squawk sheet, whatever); then a system to return an aircraft to service involving the mechanic AND pilot.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 11:39:13 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Post phase test flights are a big deal. I have nothing but respect for the Army test pilots that do this on a weekly basis, especially in something as complex as the CH47.

Rotorcraft are complex, intricate, and will kill you if you don't respect them.
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Yeah, on something like that, no kidding.

The Robinson head is fairly simple.  Everything is up top and fully visible.  The three rotorhead bolts (one teeter, two flapping) are horizontal and stretch torqued with nylock nuts and cotter pins......easy to see from the ground.  My guess is p/c links.  Even though they are visible and the bolts are installed in direction of rotation, a quick power reduction to easily defeat that final "fail safe".
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 10:40:29 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


Yeah, on something like that, no kidding.

The Robinson head is fairly simple.  Everything is up top and fully visible.  The three rotorhead bolts (one teeter, two flapping) are horizontal and stretch torqued with nylock nuts and cotter pins......easy to see from the ground.  My guess is p/c links.  Even though they are visible and the bolts are installed in direction of rotation, a quick power reduction to easily defeat that final "fail safe".
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Post phase test flights are a big deal. I have nothing but respect for the Army test pilots that do this on a weekly basis, especially in something as complex as the CH47.

Rotorcraft are complex, intricate, and will kill you if you don't respect them.


Yeah, on something like that, no kidding.

The Robinson head is fairly simple.  Everything is up top and fully visible.  The three rotorhead bolts (one teeter, two flapping) are horizontal and stretch torqued with nylock nuts and cotter pins......easy to see from the ground.  My guess is p/c links.  Even though they are visible and the bolts are installed in direction of rotation, a quick power reduction to easily defeat that final "fail safe".


Unfortunately, the simpler it is to identify a problem, the easier it is to get complacent about looking for one.
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 1:47:27 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't like doing post maintance test flights.  

I get pretty pissed when they give me shit for not being willing to do them in the dark or in bad weather.
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 2:19:45 PM EDT
[#11]
In other news, water is wet and sky is blue.
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 2:52:01 PM EDT
[#12]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Post phase test flights are a big deal. I have nothing but respect for the Army test pilots that do this on a weekly basis, especially in something as complex as the CH47.



Rotorcraft are complex, intricate, and will kill you if you don't respect them.
View Quote
Not to derail this thread, but is it true that in the Army they have dedicated test pilots, and that is all they do?  I only ask, because in the USMC skid community, just about every pilot becomes an FCP (functional check pilot) and the duty typically rotates among the younger (aka lower hour) guys.  I usually test 1-2 times a week on average, plus fly all the normal tactical stuff.



 
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 3:19:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Yes, for most of the airframes there are tracked Maintenance Test Pilots that do the MTF's. They however are also fully functional line pilots. They are just usually worked hard and put away wet. There are specific Maintenance Test Pilot courses for most airframes.

There are no MTP courses for fixed wing and it usually ends up being the IPs who do all the MTFs after local training on aircraft that have maintenance check flight requirements.





Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not to derail this thread, but is it true that in the Army they have dedicated test pilots, and that is all they do?  I only ask, because in the USMC skid community, just about every pilot becomes an FCP (functional check pilot) and the duty typically rotates among the younger (aka lower hour) guys.  I usually test 1-2 times a week on average, plus fly all the normal tactical stuff.
 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Post phase test flights are a big deal. I have nothing but respect for the Army test pilots that do this on a weekly basis, especially in something as complex as the CH47.

Rotorcraft are complex, intricate, and will kill you if you don't respect them.
Not to derail this thread, but is it true that in the Army they have dedicated test pilots, and that is all they do?  I only ask, because in the USMC skid community, just about every pilot becomes an FCP (functional check pilot) and the duty typically rotates among the younger (aka lower hour) guys.  I usually test 1-2 times a week on average, plus fly all the normal tactical stuff.
 

Link Posted: 2/19/2015 4:50:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 6:46:17 PM EDT
[#15]
I always like my A&P's to be pilots also. They had skin in the game so to say.
Always did a through inspection when my plane came out of annual.
I was the first to fly it and liked no surprises.
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 7:13:01 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
is it true that in the Army they have dedicated test pilots, and that is all they do?    
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Yes and no.  Doctrinally a maintenance officer in the Army is like combining a mission pilot and MO in the navy/marines into one person.  He does the job of a mission pilot as well as manages maintenance at the company(think department head), battalion/squadron, or brigade/wing level.  The army has a non-aviator maintenance officer job(1 assigned per battalion/squadron) but they are often poorly utilized and kept on staff or something equally boring since they are not aviators.  

And they're maintenance test pilots in the Army(often shortened inappropriately to "test pilot" in the field).  Not to be confused with experimental test pilots, correctly shortened to "test pilot".  

Link Posted: 2/19/2015 7:24:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I always like my A&P's to be pilots also. They had skin in the game so to say.
Always did a through inspection when my plane came out of annual.
I was the first to fly it and liked no surprises.
View Quote

I'm the same way so I pushed for a new policy in my shop.  I personally test fly each plane after it comes out of a major maintenance cycle because I don't want our customers to be the test pilots.  Since we are a Robbie service center my boss flies the choppers and I'm itching to finish my rotor.

So far I think it's working out very well.
Link Posted: 2/23/2015 1:05:04 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a standing rule for test flights,  whichever mechanic signed the release paper is in the airplane with me.
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