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Posted: 11/17/2014 12:16:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 12:16:19 AM EDT
[#2]
You try to plan things so that they are not needed, but things don't always go according to plan. The most common thing that happens is you plan your descent and then the controller requests a significant speed reduction or more rapid descent than originally planned.
When the speed brakes on the airplanes that I have flown were fully deployed there was always an annoying rumble and air frame shake like a poodle trying to pass a peach pit or a cockle-burr. Some airplanes roll control gets a little goosey too. 
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Posted: 11/17/2014 8:11:42 AM EDT
[#3]
When I was flying a Piper Navajo Chieftain (PA-31-350) I always wished I had spoilers or speed brakes. That thing didn't want to slow down with out bringing the power back. We always tried to baby the engines and make slow power reductions. More than once I had to request a decent in a hold to get down.
Now that I'm in a twin turboprop I love being able to bring the power to the stop when ATC asks for a steep descent. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 8:52:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. |
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Posted: 11/17/2014 9:16:33 AM EDT
[#5]
We don't use them as a matter of routine. ATC will drop the ball sometimes and need a fairly steep descent rate at an airspeed we can't slow to without them. You can play with power and pitch (IE throttles to idle and maintain altitude until you reach desired speed). I don't know anything about the Vspeeds on 777 but on radar vectors you should probably have the slats (at a minimum) out and be fully configured (gear down, full flaps) for landing before the outer marker.
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Posted: 11/17/2014 11:17:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. On the MD-80, it's the "spoiler lever", and all the manual references are for spoilers. With the anti-ice on, we have to carry a little power, to keep the heat up. The only way we can make most of the arrivals, is with the spoilers out. The DCA (and new DFW) arrivals are more like work in the winter, strong tail winds make it even more interesting. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 12:57:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the MD-80, it's the "spoiler lever", and all the manual references are for spoilers. With the anti-ice on, we have to carry a little power, to keep the heat up. The only way we can make most of the arrivals, is with the spoilers out. The DCA (and new DFW) arrivals are more like work in the winter, strong tail winds make it even more interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. On the MD-80, it's the "spoiler lever", and all the manual references are for spoilers. With the anti-ice on, we have to carry a little power, to keep the heat up. The only way we can make most of the arrivals, is with the spoilers out. The DCA (and new DFW) arrivals are more like work in the winter, strong tail winds make it even more interesting. DCA isn't the longest RWY in the world either. |
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Posted: 11/18/2014 9:48:53 AM EDT
[#8]
Used rarely in the lear until touchdown unless we are going into central Texas and get the San Antonio slam.
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Posted: 11/20/2014 11:16:04 PM EDT
[#9]
On the B707 you could cut-out either the inboard or the outboard spoilers ("speed brakes"). By cutting out the inboard spoilers you could increase your descent without getting the annoying buffeting. This eliminates disturbed air from hitting the stab which causes buffeting.
You could also cut-out the appropriate set of spoilers to substitute as trim in the event of a stab failure. Capt Obvious: Used on landings and also used for aborted takeoffs. |
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Posted: 11/20/2014 11:28:04 PM EDT
[#10]
The spoilers on the Beechjet and Taco Rocket were pretty much for display only.
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Posted: 11/21/2014 5:02:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. Spoiler Alert! 
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Posted: 11/21/2014 5:07:46 AM EDT
[#12]
We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 6:30:14 AM EDT
[#13]
Rudder to the floor, and stick to the door.
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Posted: 11/21/2014 11:10:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. This is on the DeHavilland Comet? Or on the Tu 104? Or are you a test pilot on the new MRJ? |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 11:12:18 AM EDT
[#15]
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Rudder to the floor, and stick to the door. Passengers don't like slips. And I doubt you would want to do one in solid IMC. |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 11:26:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Passengers don't like slips. And I doubt you would want to do one in solid IMC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Rudder to the floor, and stick to the door. Passengers don't like slips. And I doubt you would want to do one in solid IMC. If it's solid IMC, the nearest thing to flying I do is sitting in the hanger drinking beer. 
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Posted: 11/21/2014 11:27:49 AM EDT
[#17]
Proper British term is airbrakes, and they are beautiful on the Hawker 800.
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Posted: 11/21/2014 12:10:00 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. Lear 20 and 30 series require their use for anti ice if you are descending |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 3:01:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On the B707 you could cut-out either the inboard or the outboard spoilers ("speed brakes"). By cutting out the inboard spoilers you could increase your descent without getting the annoying buffeting. This eliminates disturbed air from hitting the stab which causes buffeting. You could also cut-out the appropriate set of spoilers to substitute as trim in the event of a stab failure. Capt Obvious: Used on landings and also used for aborted takeoffs. Was that a common practice in the 707 airframe? Just curious. Never heard of it in the -135. I imagine because it isn't written in our T.O.s. An old DV airlift guy did show me a similar method you posted to burn a lot of gas without having to drop the gear or have the extreme buffeting of full brakes. Cutout the outboards and go full brakes I think. Did have one crew who was floating the inboard spoilers to burn extra gas. Forgot to reset the cutout switch and on landing roll when deploying the speed brakes, whooops! The "Up Switch" worked as advertised! |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 4:01:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that a common practice in the 707 airframe? Just curious. Never heard of it in the -135. I imagine because it isn't written in our T.O.s. An old DV airlift guy did show me a similar method you posted to burn a lot of gas without having to drop the gear or have the extreme buffeting of full brakes. Cutout the outboards and go full brakes I think. Did have one crew who was floating the inboard spoilers to burn extra gas. Forgot to reset the cutout switch and on landing roll when deploying the speed brakes, whooops! The "Up Switch" worked as advertised! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
On the B707 you could cut-out either the inboard or the outboard spoilers ("speed brakes"). By cutting out the inboard spoilers you could increase your descent without getting the annoying buffeting. This eliminates disturbed air from hitting the stab which causes buffeting. You could also cut-out the appropriate set of spoilers to substitute as trim in the event of a stab failure. Capt Obvious: Used on landings and also used for aborted takeoffs. Was that a common practice in the 707 airframe? Just curious. Never heard of it in the -135. I imagine because it isn't written in our T.O.s. An old DV airlift guy did show me a similar method you posted to burn a lot of gas without having to drop the gear or have the extreme buffeting of full brakes. Cutout the outboards and go full brakes I think. Did have one crew who was floating the inboard spoilers to burn extra gas. Forgot to reset the cutout switch and on landing roll when deploying the speed brakes, whooops! The "Up Switch" worked as advertised! Hard to give you a number, but it was a fairly common (or rather accepted) technique. Maybe 1/3 of the pilots would use it? I personally didn't use it a whole lot. Plan the descent right and do it clean if you can is my take. If ATC delays the descent, then I'd opt for using the gear or flaps (flaps 14 works great). If I'm going to use boards I'll just use them all as necessary (not full deflection, I just didn't mess with cutting out the inboards). |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 6:52:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Proper British term is airbrakes, and they are beautiful on the Hawker 800. Top and bottom and lift dump. |
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Posted: 11/21/2014 10:30:37 PM EDT
[#22]
In the old days if you couldn't cross the OM clean and 250kts and be stable at touchdown you had no hair.
Of course no one would do that now days. In the B777 you should be at GS intercept alt before the OM and at Flaps 5, speed flaps 5 MMS. You should have no need for speed brakes to configure and slow for landing. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:56:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the old days if you couldn't cross the OM clean and 250kts and be stable at touchdown you had no hair. Of course no one would do that now days. In the B777 you should be at GS intercept alt before the OM and at Flaps 5, speed flaps 5 MMS. You should have no need for speed brakes to configure and slow for landing. Nowadays our definition of stable is considerably more stringent. There's also FOQA that will rat you out for attempting something that stupid. Then there is also the guy next to you that will, more then likely, take the controls away from you and walk you to the CP's office. Back in my regional days, we had one pilot that used to claim that any good pilot should be able to do that and that he, of course, was just such a pilot. He'd attempt it periodically. Crossing the OM at 250 (7 mile om too), thrust idle, full spoilers, gear down, flaps on schedule... About as unstable as possible. He had more go-arounds then any other 4 captains combined. He got it on once after floating half way down 12R in MSP. He later medicalled out after a 2 yeah hiatus for psychiatric issues. No BS. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:21:43 AM EDT
[#24]
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine.
In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:50:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard to give you a number, but it was a fairly common (or rather accepted) technique. Maybe 1/3 of the pilots would use it? I personally didn't use it a whole lot. Plan the descent right and do it clean if you can is my take. If ATC delays the descent, then I'd opt for using the gear or flaps (flaps 14 works great). If I'm going to use boards I'll just use them all as necessary (not full deflection, I just didn't mess with cutting out the inboards). Interesting differences between communities with very similar airframes. Thanks for the info! |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 1:13:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. I once listened to a guy that was way too smart for his own good trying to explain to a group of pilots about drag polars. One of the pilots raised his hand and asked what a queer bear had to do with flying airplanes
On another note I recall flying the uniquely superior and sophisticated T-37. It was so special that it not only had an airframe speed brake, but had one in each engine tailpipe.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 1:31:13 PM EDT
[#27]
My C-182 has the speed brakes permanently deployed.
and the spoilers are down and welded.   |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 3:42:11 PM EDT
[#28]
I try not to use the speedbrake unless I have to (i.e. steep descent, tactically required, etc). Generally if you touch it otherwise it means you pissed away a couple hundred lbs of fuel that could have been used for some more BFM or to delta overhead in an emergency.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 7:09:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:27:00 PM EDT
[#30]
When I hauled checks it was 250 to the marker or you got yelled at.
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Posted: 11/22/2014 8:57:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I once listened to a guy that was way too smart for his own good trying to explain to a group of pilots about drag polars. One of the pilots raised his hand and asked what a queer bear had to do with flying airplanes
On another note I recall flying the uniquely superior and sophisticated T-37. It was so special that it not only had an airframe speed brake, but had one in each engine tailpipe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. I once listened to a guy that was way too smart for his own good trying to explain to a group of pilots about drag polars. One of the pilots raised his hand and asked what a queer bear had to do with flying airplanes
On another note I recall flying the uniquely superior and sophisticated T-37. It was so special that it not only had an airframe speed brake, but had one in each engine tailpipe. Thrust attenuators ftw on slow spool up time. |
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Posted: 11/22/2014 10:03:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thrust attenuators ftw on slow spool up time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. I once listened to a guy that was way too smart for his own good trying to explain to a group of pilots about drag polars. One of the pilots raised his hand and asked what a queer bear had to do with flying airplanes
On another note I recall flying the uniquely superior and sophisticated T-37. It was so special that it not only had an airframe speed brake, but had one in each engine tailpipe. Thrust attenuators ftw on slow spool up time. Actually it worked much like when you stick your fingers in your mouth and whistle. It changed the pitch and shrillness of the annoying 6000# dog whistle
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Posted: 11/22/2014 11:41:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. The profiles for the HS-125 and the 4000 have suuuuuuch slooooooow speeeeeeeds. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 11:52:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The profiles for the HS-125 and the 4000 have suuuuuuch slooooooow speeeeeeeds. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. The profiles for the HS-125 and the 4000 have suuuuuuch slooooooow speeeeeeeds. Hah. Last summer on the ILS to 13 at KRST, I was asked to slow for the Citation in front of me. I was in my RV. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 12:03:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hah. Last summer on the ILS to 13 at KRST, I was asked to slow for the Citation in front of me. I was in my RV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. The profiles for the HS-125 and the 4000 have suuuuuuch slooooooow speeeeeeeds. Hah. Last summer on the ILS to 13 at KRST, I was asked to slow for the Citation in front of me. I was in my RV. Which is exactly why my boss hates our slowtation. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 12:15:53 PM EDT
[#36]
We try not to use the speed brakes in the Encore+ (makes some noise and vibration and bugs the crew in back) but have used them when needed and they work really well.
Last time was when I got slam dunked going into KHOU. Works great for when they want you to keep your speed up until the marker. And they are fun to use too !! <---- I need to change my avatar to the new front office.....No speed brakes in the B200 except the good old 4 blade props,
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Posted: 11/25/2014 11:54:12 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the old days if you couldn't cross the OM clean and 250kts and be stable at touchdown you had no hair. Of course no one would do that now days. In the B777 you should be at GS intercept alt before the OM and at Flaps 5, speed flaps 5 MMS. You should have no need for speed brakes to configure and slow for landing. Remember old stories about Connies entering downwind at 18K and landing just fine. True? I have no idea. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 12:25:42 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remember old stories about Connies entering downwind at 18K and landing just fine. True? I have no idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In the old days if you couldn't cross the OM clean and 250kts and be stable at touchdown you had no hair. Of course no one would do that now days. In the B777 you should be at GS intercept alt before the OM and at Flaps 5, speed flaps 5 MMS. You should have no need for speed brakes to configure and slow for landing. Remember old stories about Connies entering downwind at 18K and landing just fine. True? I have no idea. Fuck you, engines! I shock cool you into compliance! One of the greybeards did that to the TWA Connie, a few years back, because he knew you could do that
Thanks for fucking up an unreplaceable asset, tard. |
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Posted: 11/25/2014 3:55:47 PM EDT
[#39]
In the CJ3 you can use the speedbrakes, but choose not to because above 200 kts they have an annoying rumble. I've had to use them before in order to make the soup sandwich ATC handed me work, but I don't like to do so. Below 200 knots they're not really noticeable, but they're also unnecessary because then you can just drop the approach flaps and gear.
I might have used them with passengers, maybe twice. Without passengers I'm more apt to use them so I can keep my speed up to the approach. Still fairly rare though. And remember, they're for fixing your mistakes, not ATC's! 
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:13:10 AM EDT
[#40]
L
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hah. Last summer on the ILS to 13 at KRST, I was asked to slow for the Citation in front of me. I was in my RV. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In the 727, sure, we could do 250 to the marker and dirty up and make it just fine. In the 737-800 or the RA-4000 it just ain't happenin'. Something to do with wings and camber and aerodynamical something or other, I dunno. In the 1900 it was SOP. The Q400, not so much. Most biz jet guys haven't done much hub flying, so they are happy poking in at 180KIAS. The profiles for the HS-125 and the 4000 have suuuuuuch slooooooow speeeeeeeds. Hah. Last summer on the ILS to 13 at KRST, I was asked to slow for the Citation in front of me. I was in my RV. Don't you mean shorts .lol |
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Posted: 11/26/2014 9:25:21 AM EDT
[#41]
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Rudder to the floor, and stick to the door. It's an awesome sight when the plane you just jumped from passes you. 
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Posted: 11/30/2014 12:07:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. We use "Speed Brakes" all the time in the 737, and there is no shame to it at all. The Vnav system is specifically designed to get you to high on the descent (Unless you trick it into giving you a normal profile) It is an extremely common, every flight kinda thing, when you are flying in busy "Go Fast Slow Down, Go Down" airspace. ATC doesn't have a lot of appreciation for inertia, Altitude and gravity. |
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Posted: 12/1/2014 12:52:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Flying into DFW on the MD-80's they use them quite often on descent (either at the beginning of the decent or halfway through) into DFW. Always wondered why they'd use them on the MD-80's and not on the 737.
Had multiple flights on both and have only seen them used when on the MD-80. |
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Posted: 12/2/2014 1:21:50 AM EDT
[#44]
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We use "Speed Brakes" all the time in the 737, and there is no shame to it at all. The Vnav system is specifically designed to get you to high on the descent (Unless you trick it into giving you a normal profile) It is an extremely common, every flight kinda thing, when you are flying in busy "Go Fast Slow Down, Go Down" airspace. ATC doesn't have a lot of appreciation for inertia, Altitude and gravity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Don't think any modern airliners (ecxept the BAC 146 if you want to call that modern) use speed brakes which are used only to increase drag and slow the airplane down without having a direct affect on lift. Most (if not all) airliners use spoilers which add drag and reduce lift at the same time. Some airliners (maybe all) use spollers for roll control. Spoilers typically go to max deployment when the wheels touch the ground to add a breaking function as well as to increase weight-on-wheels to optimize breaking. This. On the Boeing products they and the actuator handle are called "speed brakes" but are actually spoilers. It's just manufacturers terminology. We use "Speed Brakes" all the time in the 737, and there is no shame to it at all. The Vnav system is specifically designed to get you to high on the descent (Unless you trick it into giving you a normal profile) It is an extremely common, every flight kinda thing, when you are flying in busy "Go Fast Slow Down, Go Down" airspace. ATC doesn't have a lot of appreciation for inertia, Altitude and gravity. We do the same on the 75/76. Every flight. |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 12:56:33 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lear 20 and 30 series require their use for anti ice if you are descending Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. Lear 20 and 30 series require their use for anti ice if you are descending The worst thing about Lears! After all these years they can't figure something out so you don't dump the cabin with anti ice on? |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 1:19:36 PM EDT
[#46]
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The worst thing about Lears! After all these years they can't figure something out so you don't dump the cabin with anti ice on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. Lear 20 and 30 series require their use for anti ice if you are descending The worst thing about Lears! After all these years they can't figure something out so you don't dump the cabin with anti ice on? That is the third worst thing about lears. Number 1 is the shitty windshield heat system, #2 is the outflow valve under copilots panel....every time someone farts you get a face full. 
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Posted: 12/4/2014 9:16:36 PM EDT
[#47]
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That is the third worst thing about lears. Number 1 is the shitty windshield heat system, #2 is the outflow valve under copilots panel....every time someone farts you get a face full. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We have speed brakes, we use them quite a bit. Especially in icing conditions where 75% N2 is minimum required for the anti-ice systems. Lear 20 and 30 series require their use for anti ice if you are descending The worst thing about Lears! After all these years they can't figure something out so you don't dump the cabin with anti ice on? That is the third worst thing about lears. Number 1 is the shitty windshield heat system, #2 is the outflow valve under copilots panel....every time someone farts you get a face full. Lol time to upgrade? That's fucked up funny. Why not in back like any normal airplane? |
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Posted: 12/4/2014 9:55:13 PM EDT
[#48]
They put the outflow valve there so they wouldn't have to install smoke detectors. You will smell the smoke. I did air ambulance in one and a fart is one of the better smells you get hit with. I routinely wore O2 for the duration of a flight.
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Posted: 12/5/2014 2:42:05 AM EDT
[#49]
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They put the outflow valve there so they wouldn't have to install smoke detectors. You will smell the smoke. I did air ambulance in one and a fart is one of the better smells you get hit with. I routinely wore O2 for the duration of a flight. I've done that before!
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