I took the ATP written recently and passed with an 86 and now I guess I have two years to take the practical. I've got around 600-700 hours total time, much of it is in my Mooney and is cross-country with the type of time you might expect from a cautious pilot in a piston single -- around 10-20% is at night (up and down the coastline usually), 2-5% IMC with an occasional approach.

With what I'm reading, it looks as if I need to have 1500 hours total time to qualify, unless I have a bachelor's (does it have to be in aviation?). I live in Florida and have a job offer in Kansas that I'm expected to perform duties as an independent contractor and therefore will use my airplane to commute (I figure 14/hrs a week, weather and maintenance permitting).

I earned my instrument at a part 141 school and I have not yet taken my commercial check ride. I've done my commercial written exam.

I'll try and peruse the new rules and check in with you.

Google ATP CTP.  On that page is a link to a checklist that will walk you through exactly what you need for an ATP rating.

I don't know if that applies. My understanding is that all of that CTP stuff is what kicks in on 8/1/14 to take the written.

The question is how the required time applies to the certificate: Am I looking at the 1000 hours required if you went to a 141 program and if I went to a commercial 141 program would that knock down my required hours or is it 1500 hours since I didn't go to college for an aviation degree?

My interpretation is that to get a lower mins ATP you'd have to go to a school with an approved aviation program.

I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle on the 141 stuff if you're going to be commuting halfway across the country. Just pull your MP back to 20" and watch your logbook fill up.

I never knew a college degree was a factor in any cert?

Umm unless I missed something at some point, a college degree doesn't have anything to do with the time required to take your ATP practical. It didn't matter when I got mine and I doubt it does now.

It's not.

I got my ATP 7 years ago and have trying hard to not think about the new ATP rules.  The stupidity there makes my head hurt.  But here's how I understand it.

If you take the old written test before the end of August you have two years to take the practical using the old rules and time requirements.  If you don't, your just fucked.

To the OP. Do want to pursue a carrier in commercial aviation? Do you aim to be an Airline pilot?  Does this job is Kansas move you closer to it?  If not, concider trying to get a job towing banners. Those guys rack up the hours quickly I hear.  Hurry up and get your commercial.  Start flying the Mooney at night and IFR.  Start with doing IFR flights in good weather until you are comfortable being in the system.

After the end of this month, in order to get the ATP you will have to have 1500 hours, including the specific types of time listed in Part 61 (Instrument, Night, Night Takeoff & Landings, Cross Country, etc), AND complete an approved ATP training course, including 6 hours of training in a Level D Simulator of an airplane with a gross weight of 40,000 pounds or more, prior to being eligible to take the ATP written.

If you want to get a Restricted ATP, which will allow you to serve as SIC on Part 121 flights, you can get one prior to the end of the month with a combination of qualifications, including:

1500 Hours

or

1000 Hours & a Bachelor's Degree in Aviation Science from an approved university which includes completion of Commercial and Instrument from their approved 141 program.

or

750 Hours & Military Pilot

or

1350 Hours & an Associate's Degree in Aviation Science from an approved university which includes completion of Commercial and Instrument from their approved 141 program.

After the date-cutoff, applicants seeking a Restricted ATP will still have to complete the training course prior to being eligible to take the ATP written.

The new regulations do not affect the practical tests, only the written.  In other words, if you took the ATP written now, you would have 24 calendar months to take the practical under the old rules, assuming you meet the above qualifications, and could avoid the costly ATP training program.

If you want to confirm what I've said (typed, not copy & pasted from some blog or website), open up FAR Part 61 yourself and begin reading.  It's not rocket science (close, but not exactly) and there is a table of contents to help you find exactly what you're looking for.

Hope this helps.

What you typed is technically correct, but not helpful because it's factually misleading.  The college degree from an accredited, approved university with a 141 training program and Letter of Authorization from the FAA is required to qualify for the Restricted ATP at less 1500 hours.  



The new changes to the rules affect the written, not the practical.

ETA- And there goes post 800.  I had planned to make a TWA thread.  

Im a little lost as to what your trying to accomplish.  A commercial rating allows you to operate for profit.  The ATP really just signifies the amount of hours or training that you have.  You have basically put the cart in front of the horse by taking the ATP without a commercial.













 

You are correct, but I read his post to say that he is using the aircraft to commute to work and back, which is incidental and not commercial flying.  I might be wrong, but that's how I understood him.

Work is just incidental. I don't like intellectual property and prototypes being scrutinized by TSA and then having prototypes that months of work have gone into tossed around by baggage handlers.

As for the ATP; I've been kicking around the idea of retiring and spending some time flying for somebody. I cannot stand classroom time and, with the new CTP stuff, decided to knock out my ATP written so I wouldn't have to do the classroom time.

I think that these requirements are akin to requiring accountants to have a degree in accounting and attorneys to have a law degree to practice law. I cannot imagine there being any shortage of upstart mediocre flight training programs and aviation degrees taking advantage of student loans to indenture a bunch of future washouts.

If you want to pursue a life-long career in aviation, you're going to have to get your ATP.  I didn't really start making buckets of money until I got mine and could fly captain for charter operators.  That's when the good jobs open up to you.  Don't get me wrong, I made fine money doing corporate flying with my commercial, but the work tended to be sporadic since the aviation department follows the ups and downs of the economy real closely.  The other thing is the type of airplanes I was flying.  Doing corporate and cargo stuff in pistons will eventually get a little old.  Once I moved into the jets for good my quality of life both at work and what I brought home went up exponentially.  

If you've got 400 600 hours now, make it your mission to get to 1500 ASAP, before the 24 months left on your written expires.  Beg, borrow, steal, and rent time in anything you can.  Rent a 150 and cruise around at 50% throttle with the flaps hanging out, just using the gas to turn the hobbs.  Get to 1500 hours and your ATP before you have to pay $$$ to take a CTP or go through the regionals and be stuck flying in the right seat for 15 years and making peanuts.

Honestly, the best way to build time now is probably pipeline patrol or something similar.  You'll probably max out your flight time each day, make peanuts, and it'll all be piston single (probably, some companies around here are using Caravans now!), but you'll be surprised how fast you fill up your logbook.  

And remember, flight time is counted from when the aircraft moves under its own power to when you shutdown.  A lot of aircraft run the hobbs from the squat switch or when the aircraft reaches a certain speed or power setting.  Find out what drives your hobbs meter, and if it's off the squat switch, add a reasonable amount to what the squat switch shows to account for taxi time.  In a jet, I wouldn't feel guilty for adding .1 or .2 every flight.  That's how the airlines do it, they count their time from gate to gate, and the FAA doesn't have a problem with them.  Just make sure you're not shorting yourself by not logging time you could be.

If you've done everything for your commercial except the ride then that should be your next move.

The level D requirement is absolutely baffling.

I've spent my career avoiding the airlines, citations and lears are good enough for me.  I'm so sick and tired of the push to make everyone an airline pilot. There are lots of ways to make a living as a professional pilot that don't involve shitty 1st year pay and crashpads.

Well said.  I would never put up with what a regional FO puts up with his first year, or first five years.  I made more money the first year I was flying a 206 with 500 hrs and a commercial than any regional paid, and I was home every night and had a lot more fun.  And it only got better from there!

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