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TadJackson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 1:24:14 PM EST
So, I'll preface this with, I'm a writer, not professionally but something i do in my free time.

I like to get details right, so, for the purposes of my narrative...

What would happen if, in a DC-3 (twin-wasp engined)

1) you ran an engine on only one magneto.

2) you immediately went to rated power after a cold start.


for the purposes of the questions (and the story) it's not a completely worn the fuck out plane, but it's not not running freshly rebuilt engines either.
RickH11
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Posted: 7/11/2012 1:37:06 PM EST
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.
TadJackson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 1:45:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?
FB41
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Posted: 7/11/2012 2:16:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.

If you voted for obama in 2008 to prove you weren't a racist, vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you're not an idiot.

Home in Florida, Work in Alaska- Who sez there ain't a God?

USMC 1977-1987
TadJackson
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Posted: 7/11/2012 3:20:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2012 3:22:15 PM EST by TadJackson]
Originally Posted By FB41:
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.



well, assuming a pilot who's got the skill and calmness to deal with it, would the procedure follow: rated power on remaining engine and try to keep it from yawing around?

eta: would it be completely impossible, provided the terrain under you is suitable for landing, to throw the gear down and put it on the ground without killing yourself or destroying the aircraft?
NJD
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Posted: 7/11/2012 5:47:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By FB41:
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.



well, assuming a pilot who's got the skill and calmness to deal with it, would the procedure follow: rated power on remaining engine and try to keep it from yawing around?

eta: would it be completely impossible, provided the terrain under you is suitable for landing, to throw the gear down and put it on the ground without killing yourself or destroying the aircraft?


Outside of accelerated stalls, if you have full power on the operating engine you are likely to be doing a Vmc demo (and crashing inverted into the ground) well before you can get the airplane to stall. In other words - you won't be able to maintain control at a speed slow enough for it to actually stall.

I'm not typed in a DC3 but the stall recovery procedure would likely start like any other: Relax back pressure, nose down to the horizon (at least), wings level, get your airspeed back all while applying the maximum power you can given the aircraft's current configuration / situation.

Picking a nice spot to crash into straight ahead would be prudent also.

Gear up or gear down crashing (on land) will always find people on either side of the argument. A DC3 landing gear-up will take out the props and some belly skin but will still roll on the semi-retracted wheels. The brakes will still work too.
jestertoo
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Posted: 7/11/2012 6:04:56 PM EST
Did Dirk Pitt buy a -3?
ElSupremo
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Posted: 7/12/2012 4:45:02 AM EST
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
So, I'll preface this with, I'm a writer, not professionally but something i do in my free time.

I like to get details right, so, for the purposes of my narrative...

What would happen if, in a DC-3 (twin-wasp engined)

1) you ran an engine on only one magneto.

2) you immediately went to rated power after a cold start.


for the purposes of the questions (and the story) it's not a completely worn the fuck out plane, but it's not not running freshly rebuilt engines either.


1) Engine should run smooth but not develop full rated power.

2) It would do it but it would do damage to the engine because of lack of proper lubrication. Normally you would wait for a minimum of 40 degrees C before exceeding 1000 RPM. You might also rupture an oil cooler.

Running max power on one engine and then stalling the airplane would result in a VMC roll over and from 800 feet in a DC-3 you would not be able to recover before making a crater.

I got my ATP in a 1937 model DC-3, year of our Lord 1974. We have the Continental DC-3 at Lone Star Flight Museum.

SuperSixOne
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Posted: 7/12/2012 12:05:06 PM EST

Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By FB41:
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.



well, assuming a pilot who's got the skill and calmness to deal with it, would the procedure follow: rated power on remaining engine and try to keep it from yawing around?

eta: would it be completely impossible, provided the terrain under you is suitable for landing, to throw the gear down and put it on the ground without killing yourself or destroying the aircraft?

It depends if you lose the critical engine or not, on the DC-3 it is the right engine. Torque and P-factor is most aggressive at high AOA so if you are still climbing out and have sufficient airspeed you could MAYBE make it happen if you lost the left engine. In all likelihood though you will crash.
ElSupremo
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Posted: 7/13/2012 5:09:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:

Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By FB41:
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.



well, assuming a pilot who's got the skill and calmness to deal with it, would the procedure follow: rated power on remaining engine and try to keep it from yawing around?

eta: would it be completely impossible, provided the terrain under you is suitable for landing, to throw the gear down and put it on the ground without killing yourself or destroying the aircraft?

It depends if you lose the critical engine or not, on the DC-3 it is the right engine. Torque and P-factor is most aggressive at high AOA so if you are still climbing out and have sufficient airspeed you could MAYBE make it happen if you lost the left engine. In all likelihood though you will crash.


The question was: "What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) STALL with one blowing and one windmilling?"
You stall a Goonie Bird on one (left or right) engine at 800' and you are graveyard dead. No ifs, ands, or buts. Not even John Wayne or the great Waldo Pepper could do it outside of Hollywood.
SuperSixOne
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Posted: 7/17/2012 1:24:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By ElSupremo:
Originally Posted By SuperSixOne:

Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By FB41:
Originally Posted By TadJackson:
Originally Posted By RickH11:
#1 It would run rough and would not run up and RPM would be lower.

#2 You would probably ruin the main bearing for lack of lubrication, especially on an 1820.


okay, next question.

What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) stall with one blowing and one windmilling?


Likely crash, unless you aggressively train for engine failures. Single engine ops in a DC-3 are very taxing as it takes a good amount of leg strength to hold rudder on the operating engine side. A failure on take-off or low altitude is the most dangerous time due to the high power settings and lower speeds.



well, assuming a pilot who's got the skill and calmness to deal with it, would the procedure follow: rated power on remaining engine and try to keep it from yawing around?

eta: would it be completely impossible, provided the terrain under you is suitable for landing, to throw the gear down and put it on the ground without killing yourself or destroying the aircraft?

It depends if you lose the critical engine or not, on the DC-3 it is the right engine. Torque and P-factor is most aggressive at high AOA so if you are still climbing out and have sufficient airspeed you could MAYBE make it happen if you lost the left engine. In all likelihood though you will crash.


The question was: "What would you do in a low altitude (less than 800 feet above ground) STALL with one blowing and one windmilling?"
You stall a Goonie Bird on one (left or right) engine at 800' and you are graveyard dead. No ifs, ands, or buts. Not even John Wayne or the great Waldo Pepper could do it outside of Hollywood.

Missed the stall part.
ElSupremo
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Posted: 7/17/2012 4:45:31 PM EST
I forgive you