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pwr2al4
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Posted: 7/4/2012 6:16:07 AM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 6:16:51 AM by pwr2al4]


I have no words.....



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diaz_aa
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Posted: 7/4/2012 6:24:57 AM
Not sure who is right or wrong. Any translation to the non pilot arfcommers?
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Posted: 7/4/2012 3:25:39 PM
[Last Edit: 7/4/2012 3:27:38 PM by ARAMP1]
You can't really tell who's right or wrong with just the audio...But, sounds like the pilot thought he was somewhere other than where he was. He sounds like a dumbass saying "my instruments are well maintained", etc. However the controller could have cleared it up with either assigning a new transponder code or just an ident to verify position, then report to him that she showed him at X position. I've been given the wrong code before, an already assigned code, and the controller thought I was the other aircraft that was already squawking that code. I was given a vector and then flew into some airspace that I wasn't supposed to all because the controller thought I was 60 miles west of my actual position. If he would have told me though "don't bother me no more", I would have told him to squawk 1200, maintain VFR altitude and have a nice day.
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Posted: 7/4/2012 4:28:03 PM
This is why I fly in daylight, under the clouds ... out of the rain, and then only when I can see terra firm at all times.
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Posted: 7/16/2012 4:42:55 AM

Originally Posted By ARAMP1:
You can't really tell who's right or wrong with just the audio...But, sounds like the pilot thought he was somewhere other than where he was. He sounds like a dumbass saying "my instruments are well maintained", etc. However the controller could have cleared it up with either assigning a new transponder code or just an ident to verify position, then report to him that she showed him at X position. I've been given the wrong code before, an already assigned code, and the controller thought I was the other aircraft that was already squawking that code. I was given a vector and then flew into some airspace that I wasn't supposed to all because the controller thought I was 60 miles west of my actual position. If he would have told me though "don't bother me no more", I would have told him to squawk 1200, maintain VFR altitude and have a nice day.

English? Mother... Nevermind. Would you be so kind as to translate to the non pilots here?
"Around here we handle problems with sight alignment, sight picture...."
"Whatever happened to eating his ass out in the Principal's office" - KRPIND
chadjetlag
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Posted: 7/16/2012 3:32:56 PM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2012 3:34:38 PM by chadjetlag]
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.
The good news is Ted has been sober for a few months now----E-Mag
boobies are your friend. Or, more to the point, boobies are your babies friend. More boobies=happier baby=more sleep=less work=More Boobies. See? It is mathematical----Jkiser
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Posted: 7/16/2012 7:24:55 PM
Originally Posted By diaz_aa:

Originally Posted By ARAMP1:
You can't really tell who's right or wrong with just the audio...But, sounds like the pilot thought he was somewhere other than where he was. He sounds like a dumbass saying "my instruments are well maintained", etc. However the controller could have cleared it up with either assigning a new transponder code or just an ident to verify position, then report to him that she showed him at X position. I've been given the wrong code before, an already assigned code, and the controller thought I was the other aircraft that was already squawking that code. I was given a vector and then flew into some airspace that I wasn't supposed to all because the controller thought I was 60 miles west of my actual position. If he would have told me though "don't bother me no more", I would have told him to squawk 1200, maintain VFR altitude and have a nice day.

English? Mother... Nevermind. Would you be so kind as to translate to the non pilots here?


Transponder is a radio system that identifies aircraft to the controller. They assign you a number and you set the transponder to that number so they know who you are and your intentions (land, depart, etc.) Exciting things can happen if you have the wrong code, be it their fault or yours. If they think you're in the wrong place, they can tell you to do something that you shouldn't do, like enter restricted airspace or turn off the approach.

Squawk means set your transponder to this number. 1200 is the code for an aircraft operating under Visual Flight Rules, which means it is not allowed to enter the airspace around a controlled airport like Newark Liberty (EWR.) "...squawk 1200, maintain VFR altitude and have a nice day," means, "Fuck off, amateur," when you say it to somebody who is supposed to be a professional pilot.
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Screechjet1
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Posted: 7/16/2012 8:06:35 PM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.


ZNY is notorious for assigning Victor routes up to fixes for aircraft that filed RNAV and can reasonably expect to be climbing through FL180 in short order.

We tried to explain, back in 2008, that this was a FOQA hit waiting to happen. Essentially, its pulling an audible on the flight crew, whose FMS are generally not set up from a software and interface standpoint to navigate on a Victor route to a J route fix, which is what Dixie is, IIRC. I know that good airmanship is having the low level chart out, but both reality and fact that the data doesn't recognize J route fixes when navigating to them on V routes means this is a bad operating practice, IMO.

"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." VADM James Stockdale, USN Good dog, Maddie
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Posted: 7/16/2012 9:34:39 PM
[Last Edit: 7/16/2012 9:37:49 PM by chadjetlag]
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.


ZNY is notorious for assigning Victor routes up to fixes for aircraft that filed RNAV and can reasonably expect to be climbing through FL180 in short order.

We tried to explain, back in 2008, that this was a FOQA hit waiting to happen. Essentially, its pulling an audible on the flight crew, whose FMS are generally not set up from a software and interface standpoint to navigate on a Victor route to a J route fix, which is what Dixie is, IIRC. I know that good airmanship is having the low level chart out, but both reality and fact that the data doesn't recognize J route fixes when navigating to them on V routes means this is a bad operating practice, IMO.



I removed the smart ass comment. If you operate in that area you know victor airways are the norm even for fast movers, of course jeppessen also publishes preferred routing but we can save that for another day.
The good news is Ted has been sober for a few months now----E-Mag
boobies are your friend. Or, more to the point, boobies are your babies friend. More boobies=happier baby=more sleep=less work=More Boobies. See? It is mathematical----Jkiser
SmilingBandit
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Posted: 7/17/2012 1:29:33 AM
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.


ZNY is notorious for assigning Victor routes up to fixes for aircraft that filed RNAV and can reasonably expect to be climbing through FL180 in short order.

We tried to explain, back in 2008, that this was a FOQA hit waiting to happen. Essentially, its pulling an audible on the flight crew, whose FMS are generally not set up from a software and interface standpoint to navigate on a Victor route to a J route fix, which is what Dixie is, IIRC. I know that good airmanship is having the low level chart out, but both reality and fact that the data doesn't recognize J route fixes when navigating to them on V routes means this is a bad operating practice, IMO.



For what it's worth in this case the plane is a Piper Arrrow, so V vs J routes probably aren't a factor.
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Posted: 7/17/2012 1:41:18 AM
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
This is why I fly in daylight, under the clouds ... out of the rain, and then only when I can see terra firm at all times.


IFR= I Fly Roads

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pwr2al4
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Posted: 7/17/2012 1:48:03 PM
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.



Theres more but unfortunately i don't have anyway to post it. This moron gets into it with his stupidity before he even begins his taxi.

Im trying to find a copy of his track before it got pulled that showed just how far off this dumbass actually was. I give that controller tons of credit for her professionalism and for hanging in there with him and his jackass attitude and behavior, despite her workload.

Once he basically told her to fuck off I cant believe she didn't drop him down, cancel his IFR and of course ask him 'if he had a pen handy?'... effin jerk. I hope he caught a 709 for that from someone.


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Posted: 7/17/2012 3:41:37 PM


Star_Scream
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Posted: 7/17/2012 11:26:39 PM
Originally Posted By pwr2al4:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.



Theres more but unfortunately i don't have anyway to post it. This moron gets into it with his stupidity before he even begins his taxi.

Im trying to find a copy of his track before it got pulled that showed just how far off this dumbass actually was. I give that controller tons of credit for her professionalism and for hanging in there with him and his jackass attitude and behavior, despite her workload.

Once he basically told her to fuck off I cant believe she didn't drop him down, cancel his IFR and of course ask him 'if he had a pen handy?'... effin jerk. I hope he caught a 709 for that from someone.



I followed that thread on live ATC.

Somedays are just like that. One day we got a call from a nearby facility warning us about someone coming our way. They had a hard time with him from the initial call up. Some time passes and we get a call from the pilot. Where he was reporting over is no where near where he actually was but we were aware of him because we had gotten a call from another facility who was tracking him after he had violated another facilities airspace, realized it and turned his transponder off effectively violating a mode c veil.

I didn't work with him but I guess it was no picnic

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Posted: 7/18/2012 12:30:43 AM
[Last Edit: 7/18/2012 12:30:54 AM by Screechjet1]
Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Originally Posted By pwr2al4:
Originally Posted By chadjetlag:
This has become somewhat the norm with today's pilots unable to use a VOR. If they can't hit direct to on the gps they are lost. Join an airway......forgetaboutit once he showed his ass I would have sent in the paperwork to violate him for failing to comply.



Theres more but unfortunately i don't have anyway to post it. This moron gets into it with his stupidity before he even begins his taxi.

Im trying to find a copy of his track before it got pulled that showed just how far off this dumbass actually was. I give that controller tons of credit for her professionalism and for hanging in there with him and his jackass attitude and behavior, despite her workload.

Once he basically told her to fuck off I cant believe she didn't drop him down, cancel his IFR and of course ask him 'if he had a pen handy?'... effin jerk. I hope he caught a 709 for that from someone.



I followed that thread on live ATC.

Somedays are just like that. One day we got a call from a nearby facility warning us about someone coming our way. They had a hard time with him from the initial call up. Some time passes and we get a call from the pilot. Where he was reporting over is no where near where he actually was but we were aware of him because we had gotten a call from another facility who was tracking him after he had violated another facilities airspace, realized it and turned his transponder off effectively violating a mode c veil.

I didn't work with him but I guess it was no picnic

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


People like that should be shot.
"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." VADM James Stockdale, USN Good dog, Maddie
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Posted: 7/18/2012 7:31:54 AM
After looking at this incident at liveatc.net...looks like the pilot was a lost, arrogant douche. Supposidly the flight track shown by flightaware showed the controller was correct, the pilot was wrong. The records of that flight was then pull from flightaware "at request of operator/owner"....someone's got egg on their face.

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Posted: 7/18/2012 11:43:07 AM

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:


People like that should be shot.

With the new reporting procedures they are much more likely to get a visit from the FSDO man.

I try to keep in mind that it is entirely possible to get a license without ever dealing with ATC so patience and professionalism is a must.
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Posted: 7/18/2012 12:01:43 PM
I got pissed at a tower controller at KSAV once and told the center controller about it after switching over. It was an extremely hot and humid day and I was in an old rental that liked to get hot on the ground. The tower cleared me onto the active, but was completely unintelligible; I could make out the word "cleared" and I requested confirmation before taking the active. He responded by canceling the clearance and vectored in no fewer than five airplanes, some of them with several minutes between them, while I spent a good 15 minutes roasting and waiting to depart. That's the only time I've ever thought a controller was anything but doing his or her best to help –– that guy in the tower at KSAV was a dick.
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Posted: 7/18/2012 6:33:03 PM
Originally Posted By a555:
I got pissed at a tower controller at KSAV once and told the center controller about it after switching over. It was an extremely hot and humid day and I was in an old rental that liked to get hot on the ground. The tower cleared me onto the active, but was completely unintelligible; I could make out the word "cleared" and I requested confirmation before taking the active. He responded by canceling the clearance and vectored in no fewer than five airplanes, some of them with several minutes between them, while I spent a good 15 minutes roasting and waiting to depart. That's the only time I've ever thought a controller was anything but doing his or her best to help –– that guy in the tower at KSAV was a dick.


Yeah there were a few grumpy bastards in that tower. I used to fly out of there for almost 8 years. I would always love the 30 mile downwinds the tower would have us make so they could get one of the Delta flights in.
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Posted: 7/18/2012 8:03:14 PM
Originally Posted By a555:
I got pissed at a tower controller at KSAV once and told the center controller about it after switching over. It was an extremely hot and humid day and I was in an old rental that liked to get hot on the ground. The tower cleared me onto the active, but was completely unintelligible; I could make out the word "cleared" and I requested confirmation before taking the active. He responded by canceling the clearance and vectored in no fewer than five airplanes, some of them with several minutes between them, while I spent a good 15 minutes roasting and waiting to depart. That's the only time I've ever thought a controller was anything but doing his or her best to help –– that guy in the tower at KSAV was a dick.


I've been the victim of some punitive controlling, and honestly it greatly decreased the respect I once held for the professionalism of controllers. Controllers are still the single most professional group in aviation, but I no longer have the near universal trust and feelings of being on the same team as I had when I started out.
"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." VADM James Stockdale, USN Good dog, Maddie
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Posted: 7/18/2012 11:56:38 PM
[Last Edit: 7/18/2012 11:58:15 PM by regalrocket]
I dated a center controlller for a long time.

Street hires and other BS have ruined a good deal of their profesionalism. For lack of a better word, some young punks forget that they are there to support flights, not the other way around,






With that being said, that tape was painful to listen too. Typical old weekend warrior who thinks they know everything, all while knowing nothing. Its why I don't instruct or maintain airplanes anymore, i just fly. Too much liability in people like that.
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:03:40 AM
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
I dated a center controlller for a long time.

Street hires and other BS have ruined a good deal of their profesionalism. For lack of a better word, some young punks forget that they are there to support flights, not the other way around,






With that being said, that tape was painful to listen too. Typical old weekend warrior who thinks they know everything, all while knowing nothing. Its why I don't instruct or maintain airplanes anymore, i just fly. Too much liability in people like that.


We're stuck on the horns of a dilemma, where we need more people flying to make it go economically, but more people flying jeopardizes the system via liability and incompetence.
"You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be." VADM James Stockdale, USN Good dog, Maddie
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Posted: 7/19/2012 10:58:44 PM
Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
Originally Posted By regalrocket:
I dated a center controlller for a long time.

Street hires and other BS have ruined a good deal of their profesionalism. For lack of a better word, some young punks forget that they are there to support flights, not the other way around,






With that being said, that tape was painful to listen too. Typical old weekend warrior who thinks they know everything, all while knowing nothing. Its why I don't instruct or maintain airplanes anymore, i just fly. Too much liability in people like that.


We're stuck on the horns of a dilemma, where we need more people flying to make it go economically, but more people flying jeopardizes the system via liability and incompetence.


How about we just pack all the tort lawyers up and send them to China? Then we might be able to resurrect GA!
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