Last week I was doing a little research on Aristocrat Humidors since my wineador is packed full and I need something larger.  I found a thread on a cigar forum where a member posted an ad from Craigslist.  A person was selling their Aristocrat in St Louis.  The poster wrote because he wasn't going to be in StL for a couple weeks and the seller was moving and needed to get it sold ASAP. He was letting someone in StL know about a good deal.  That made me think...  I wonder what's on CL around me.  

I did a couple searches and what do you know, I find an ad from a local person who is selling their collection of cigars.  The ad said they they were recently diagnosed with respiratory problems and their physician strongly urged him to not smoke (what the hell to doctors know??).  He was going to hold on to a couple but was selling the majority of a $20,000 collection that has been maintained in a walk in humidor.

I contacted the seller and discover that I'm dealing with the sellers son.  After texting back and forth for a couple days, our schedules finally work out for me to go to their house and check out what they have.  There was quite the collection of Padrons, Davidoffs, Opus X and many many boxes of habanos.  The habanos is where my interests are.  I love Padrons but from what I've read and heard, they do not age well.  I'm sure the Davidoffs and Opus Xs age well but my interest was the boxes and boxes of aged habanos.  There aren't many opportunities to get aged cigars at prices I can afford.









I know a lot about current production, but I lack knowledge on vintage boxes and frankly, was a little out of my element.  I opened up almost every box and looked at the boxes and cigars themselves while talking to the owners son.  My biggest question was how did they acquire the boxes.  The answer was somewhat typical:  He had a good friend of Cuban heritage who still had family in Cuba.  He had the approval of the US Govt to travel to and from Cuba.  When he would visit family, he would ask if anyone wanted anything and would bring cigars back.  Pretty much all of the boxes were from 2000-2003 with a couple of later boxes.  Most of the boxes were partials with a couple of full boxes.  One of the fathers friends wanted some boxes and the son wasn't sure which boxes were already spoken for and what the exact price was.  That day I left empty handed and started to do as much research on the boxes I was interested in.

The next day he texted me to let me know that every cigar was $16 which would equal $400 for a box of 25.  That is a ridiculously good deal.  Early 2000 boxes of Cohiba Robustos can go for around $2250.  Lanceros and Esplendidos can go for $1000-$1500 or more.  I wasn't too familiar with the rest of the boxes but I know that they were easily worth $16 a piece.  He let me know which cigars were available and I went the day after to buy a 2002 box of Cohiba Robustos with 8 cigars and a 2003 box of Robustos with 24 cigars in it.  I was super happy about the purchase.  The boxes and government warranty seals looked good and the serial number prefix matched with the date codes.  I did miss one obvious problem...  the 2003 cigar bands were a little off.  Cuba will Cuba and I've received boxes with bands that aren't absolutely perfect.  With these bands, the fonts were correct, all of the colors were correct and the embossing was correct.  It was just missing the 5th row of squares.  While I don't feel it's absolutely critical, it did raise some suspicion.  With everything else adding up, I thought and hoped it could just be a printing issue.









I also picked up a box of La Gloria Cubana Tanios and a box of Partagas Serie D No 4.  Again, everything checked out.  One of the big tells with semi-boîte nature boxes is the clasp (the type of box the Party SDN4 comes in).  The button on the clasp should have a city name (can't recall at the moment), GERMANY.  More recent boxes just have DK stamped so if you're rushing off to check, you might see that.  Again, the box and cigar bands were correct.  When I was there to get these boxes, I checked out a box that a friend was interested in...  Partagas Piramides Edicion Limitada 2000.  These were heavily counterfeited after their initial release and done so well that many boxes ended up in legitimate retailers.  The big clue for this box is that they weren't released until (debatably) October or November of 2000.  Collectors will not touch a box made before October and many will find October dated boxes to be highly suspect.  His box of these are dated Jun 2000...  Undoubtedly counterfeit.  Unfortunate as these would bring around $75 each if they were legitimate.  That was a second flag.

Once I got home, I wanted to try one of the 2003 CoRo (Cohiba Robustos) to see how they were.  I lit one up and it was enjoyable but didn't see quite correct.  The taste wasn't the usual Cohiba taste although I didn't expect it to be just like the more recent CoRos I've had.  Another sign was the ash was a very light grey/white color and it didn't hold well.  For those who don't know...  All commercially available (with just a couple exceptions) habanos are made with long filler so the ash should hold on very well.  Cuban ash is typically a very dark grey to almost black.

So I cut off the lit portion and began to dissect the cigar.  Cuba uses a rolling method called "entubado" or "entubar".  It is a very difficult method which is used almost excessively by Cuba.  Each leaf has the vein removed and the leaf is then bunched up.  They add more leaves to the filler until finally the binder leaf is wrapped around the bunched leaves to form the shape of the cigar.  Typically 2 binder leaves are applied and finally, a wrapper leaf is then wrapped around the cigar.  This is the only way Cuba rolls cigars.  Period and end of story.

These are not entubado rolled.  You can see how many of the leaves are simply just wrapped around the center.  On the 2002 box, you can see how a bunch of leaves were just laid on top of each other and rolled together as one with short filler in the center of the cigar.













I was really upset.  Not necessarily over the money but I really wanted to expand my collection and I had hoped to flip a some boxes to cover the ones I wanted to hang onto...  I let the seller know how much his cigars would bring for those that might think I was taking advantage.  There was a full box of 2002 Montecristo Especials and a box of Trinidad Fundadores from 2001 that I had my eye on to keep.  

So with that information, I arranged to meet the sellers son the next day.  Unfortunately though, the son wasn't available and the owner was home.  It was somewhat difficult because this guy had never met me before this.  Having someone whom you've never met, come to your house and accuse you of selling counterfeit cigars would be fairly insulting I think.  Not everyone knows what they should look for and who would cut open a $100 cigar to see how it was made?

He was very adamant about them being legitimate.  I brought a Montecristo No 2 with me and demonstrated how a cigar should be constructed.  He agreed that the cigar was correct.  He thought it was a cigar that I had purchased from him, but it was one of mine out of a Sep 13 box.  I then cut up one of the 2002 CoRos and showed him how different they were rolled.  He tried to explain the difference was because Cuba flooded that year and they just must had been in a hurry to produce more cigars.  He knew these were legitimate and nothing was going to change his mind.  I said that I knew these were absolutely not legitimate.  He explained my lack of knowledge on YouTube and I must watch "internet experts" too much.  He knew the aroma and taste of cuban tobacco and these were the real deal.  I agreed that someone can taste a cigar and tell where the leaf came from, but that doesn't mean that these were rolled at El Laguito Factory in Havana.  These very well could be made with cuban tobacco but they were rolled on a kitchen table somewhere.

He went on about how his source was beyond reproach, although he admitted that he did receive 1 or 2 fake boxes from him in the past.  I explained that the highest amount of fake cuban cigars are found in Cuba itself.  It's a poor country and people will make money however they can.  If they can get an empty cigar box from a retailer, fill it with cigars they rolled at home and all they have to do is wait for an unsuspecting tourist to come along.  Long story short, when in the Caribbean, only buy from legitimate shops.  Anyone who approaches you with cigars for sale are assuredly counterfeit.  Where did his source buy his cigars?  Who the heck knows but I'd be interested to find out.

I know that many of his boxes are legitimate.  There aren't too many fake boxes of Diplomaticos or Vegas Robania out there.  They just aren't an expensive brand and for a counterfeiter, selling a box of Cohiba Esplendidos makes a whole lot more money than a box of Dips or VRs.  I offered to contact people who can authenticate boxes.  I would ship them to him and let him authenticate and if they're legitimate, they could be sold for much more money than he was asking.  Furthermore, once authenticated, many collectors could start fighting over who would buy it.  He could sell his collection much faster for much more money.  I think he was just in a foul mood at this point because he was indifferent.  Or he didn't trust me and I can't really blame him for that.

At the end of the day, he gave me my money back minus the 9 cigars that I cut up.  Why cut up 9 cigars you ask?  I cut 2 from each box I bought just to make sure there wasn't just a 1 time flaw and then the 9th was in from of him when I demonstrated construction.  I'm not 100% sure but the LCG Tanios definitely seemed to be long filler entubado rolled but were possibly dried out at some point because the leaf was just falling apart.  Either way, they weren't any good to me.  I was satisfied with the outcome but of course, I feel that if the roles were reversed, I would have given back everything.






 

wow. quite an ordeal. Glad you had the knowledge to not get screwed over.

Damn...that really sucks about the cigars. It almost seems like the guy he got them from didn't even know they were fake. At least he refunded your money, but I know it would have been much better if they were authentic aged cubans.

Should the aged tobacco be that grey color? I've never dissected a cigar that old, but of the ones I have, they have never been that color.

Thanks for the write up. Hopefully it will help someone else know what to look for in a counterfeit cuban.

Personally I would buy up the Opus X and Padron and not fiddle with the Cubans, but that's me.  No real interest in Cubans with a large chance of being counterfeit and frankly, Fuentes will beat them any day of the week anyway.  But, sorry you didn't get what you were looking for, at least the seller made it more or less right for you.

Standard Band C
Non-embossed paper
c1993 to 2003 -- Discontinued

The 8 in the 2002 box looks like it may be legit. Then again, it's a simple band to replicate.

Edit: The 2003 box looks like they used a hybrid band between the C and the D. Either Cuba couldn't make up their mind or the counterfeiters didn't know where to start.

They say La Habana. The band is turned so it's hard to see.

 

I was referring to the box of 8 CoRos with the "C" band. From the pics, it looks like it may be legit.

The dissected stick without the "La" is from the full box from 2003 and it uses the Standard D band which were printed starting 2003

Here's the comparison:

Do the newer Cohibas just say Habana? I have 2 that say that.

Yes, new style says Habana, Cuba, and should have 3 rows above the gold border around the word Cohiba.

Real


Fake






Biggest give aways are the gold color and the rows of dots above the word Cohiba.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/counterfeit

The newest version of the band is the "G" which was introduced c2012 for the Piramides Extra and then sometime in 2014 on others including the CoRos.