So I've got some super old hard wood floors.  They're super distressed and I love them.  I have no clue what type of finish is currently on them.  

I was thinking about cleaning them thoroughly with Murphy's Oil soap and then putting down a coat of polyurethane.  

Basically I love how the floor looks but I want to prevent further damage and preserve them.  What is my best course of action?

No OIL soap

Soap and water, clean till you are happy with the look when it is damp. Let it dry completely and then apply poly.

There are a few places that need filler....Anything in particular I should use?  Also any specific soap?

Sand off old finish, use REAL tung oil to refinish. It will take several coats, you need to rub down between coats and it take awhile but it will be worth it. Poly is shit for floors, scratches easily and dulls quickly. Tung oil penetrates and hardens from inside the wood and is harder then hell. It will last 10 times longer then poly and will make old distressed wood look great with an internal glow rather then shine from overlay like poly does.

I don't know how it would work for a floor but I always liked true oil to bring out the natural color of the wood.

Sounds cool. Got a picture?

How much work and how large are the filler areas?

I have had very good luck with Minwax High Perfromance Wood Filler for major defects.

It works especially well on floors that have a darker stain used on them.

It does not harden all that dark anyway.

Sort of a buff sort of color.

You do need a clean surface for it to bond well to.

I use all sorts of carving chisels to clean out the defect to bare wood.
It is  going to be hidden anyway so a solid bond is worth the effort.

You fill in the defect and leave the material barely proud of the surface.

After it has set use a shoulder plane to carefully flatten the patch.

Set it for a very fine cut.

For the ultimate in smoothing use a card scraper for the last little but.

A light touch with some sandpaper can also work.

You need an assortment of oil type artists colors that match the tones in the surrounding wood.

You paint matching grain on the filler to blend  it in.

If the floor is going to be heavily colored I stop at this point and cover the area with super blonde shellac to protect it.

A couple cuts of about 2 pound cut.

I then finish the floor staining process.

The shellac prevents extra color in the repair area from sticking permanently.

Wipe over the shellac area with the solvent for the floor coloring agent.

Clean the area up until it is barely lighter than the surrounding area.

It may even take some alcohol to remove some of the shellac.  It may have absorbed some color.

You just want it slightly lighter.

You can then start in on the tricks to further blend the repair in.

Artist's paints, diluted floor coloring ('stain' or aniline dye, etc) until the repair blends in.

You might even need to touch up your grain repair.

Keep in mind going darker is easy.
Going lighter means you may have to remove some of the previously added color.

Judge it from a standing position.
A lot of tiny defects will not be visible when you are standing.

I usually put another layer of 2 pound super blonde dewaxed shellac on at this point.

If it still looks good tie for the main floor finish.

Things usually come out well if the final finish coats do not add a lot of color.

After the first coat of the floor finish examine the path area fearfully.

Make any slight color adjustments.  Darker is easy.  Lighter is harder.

Put the final topcoat layers on.


Good luck.

Final defects can be filled with shellac sticks even after the top coat.

A nail hole that was missed or just a stain that does not look right.

@thetos a picture would go a long way here

Step 1: Figure out what type of finish is on your floors. If they're 100 years old then it's likely shellac, varnish, or oil as these were the only finishes readily available until the 1950's. what type of wood and what color is it today?

You can determine what type of finish it is by using alcohol on a rag in an inconspicuous area to see if rubbing takes the finish off. If alcohol causes the finish to gum up on a rag then it's probably shellac or oil. If alcohol allows you to remove the finish to bare wood then it's most likely shellac. Google is your friend to find other solvents for more modern finishes.

Does the finish chip or peel anywhere that boards move? Probably at least one coat of poly on there then.

Step 2: determine what you'd like to do with it once you figure out what coating you have.

If there's poly on there anywhere it would have to be sanded off entirely. No other option, which is a big detractor for new poly.

If there's shellac on the floor, you can clean it to your desired taste with soap and water, and simply top coat it with more shellac, shellac will bond to the old shellac and it'll actually act as one thick coat. Dewaxed shellac (I recommend you buy flakes and mix your own to save money) can be used as a binding coat if you'd like to apply a modern finish over an antique waxed shellac.

Old shellac finishes have wax in them and we're waxed for maintenance. New non shellac finishes cannot bond to wax and will peel off. New shellac will allow you to leave the old finish, and repair it in the future simply by wiping it down with alcohol.

If there's oil then I can't comment because I have yet to encounter that one.

We have a mix of new and 140 year old wood flooring which was bare and shellac coated. I elected to go with dewaxed garnet shellac and a blonde waxed shellac top coat. We have been very pleased.

I goofed my application in a room and had to patch a few areas. I was able to use a rag with alcohol to rub the troubled spots down and re-apply more shellac. You can see the spots in the right light but for the most part they're unnoticeable. Stuff is pretty easy to work with.  

Picture of the old pine floor after we lost part of our roof. Everything I read online said water would damage shellac but after having the rain pour in the house the floor is the one thing which did not require repair... (the tub is full of water from the ceiling dripping)



Shellacing new maple floors

@jacobsk  here is a pic of the floor.  I can take better ones but that gives a good idea of what they look like.

Attached File


Here is a pic of the floor.

Sand and refinish.

OP wants to keep the distressed look though. Sanding would make it look like a new, flat floor.

@thetos

That looks like pine or fir. The chipping in the finish along the edges where the boards meet (from movement) & also in some of the deeper scratches makes me think that finish is a poly.

I love the color, and I can absolutely understand why you want to avoid sanding.

Can you find a location which is less visible and try to peel or chip some of the finish off? If it doesn't peel or chip can you try a small cloth with alcohol? It'll really help brainstorm options for you.

If the species of wood is pine or fir you're in luck with those troubled spots as Menards and a few other big stores stick it as a special order item used as "porch flooring" for exterior covered porches. I was able to match some 80 year old fir in our last house with 2-1/4" porch flooring.

Attached File


Here, peeled some up in a really damaged area.

@jacobsk

I'll look around for some isopropyl alcohol.

Why not just put some nice linoleum over it?

















(KIDDING)

@thetos no need for the alcohol test that picture solidifies it. You have poly.

Judging by the "stretch" in it (rather than chipping) it's probably an oil based polyurethane. The slight amber color is also indicative of oil based poly but it could be residual from whatever color / stain was applied first.

Leading into that, it does appear that your floor was stained first before poly. It does not look like the stain penetrated the wood very deep in some areas (where the wood is worn cleanly)

It does look like in the previous picture that there are some dark patches where the end grain is at the surface, highly likely that the stain absorbed much further there.

I'll come back when I collect my thoughts here.

I wonder if there is some beeswax in that 100 year old floor???  That could cause some problems.

Notice how the stain appears to have stained the wood in some locations vs laid on top of the wood in other locations.

Just a guess.

I used citristrip to get a cabinet down to bare wood to lightly sand, put a new coat of stain on and re-urethane. It didnt strip the original stain much if at all. Maybe try it on a small area and see how it works.

@thetos *warning! wall-o-text*

Since you have poly on the floors today I'll lay out the options that I see possible, even the undesirable ones.

Since the floor is of a softer species of wood, the marks, nicks, and scratches you have look to be transferring through the top coat of finish and into the wood fibers below. If you were to take a dull object and "scratch" the floor you'll probably find that the mark would remain in the wood, but over time the poly will seperate and the mark will be as visible by separation in coating as it would be by deformation. Over time the now unsupported/ unbonded poly will chip or tear away leaving both deformation in the wood fiber as well as a loss of top coat.

Unfortunately this is one drawback of poly finishes on softer wood species (as well as loose / old boards of harder species) in that the poly is harder than the wood, so it delaminates with deformation whether that be by marks and nicks or by a loose board rocking back and forth under traffic.

If the poly stays, it will continue to act in the same way as it has to date, regardless of what coating is applied over/ around it to supplement the look of the floor.

You have many things to consider with which option you choose. How large of an area, whether or not you can stay off the floor for a period of time or whether the project becomes too much for your taste and you decide to keep the floor as is.


Option1:
Clean the floor. You can go around the floor and remove the loose bits of poly by hand. Edges that are beginning to peel can be removed painstakingly with a razor, but areas where the wood fibers are dented below but the poly surface has not broken get left in place. Lightly sand the floor with a hand held sander just to scuff the existing finish and aid in removing loose bits of finish. You could then apply a similar stain to color match the worn spots with the existing floor and let it dry. Then you can apply a similar modern acrylic or oil based poly over the floor as is. *Downside. The floor will continue to peel, nothing will stop the existing finish from doing what is already doing. Use and time will show age, and there is certainly no guarantee that the stain will be uniform to the old color. Sanding will undoubtedly generate areas which will require staining, and in a non uniform fashion. There certainly is risk that the new poly begins to delaminate just like the old, albeit even from the existing layer. You will likely always be able to see the difference in areas with new + old poly, and areas with just new poly. *Upside, the age and water on the floor will remain. The floor likely won't look any worse than it does today (as long as the stain is close to the old) and you always have the ability to start over some day with a total sand of the floor like option 2.

Option 2:
Rent an orbital floor sander, start with heavy grit pads and sand the existing finish off to bare wood. If major defects persist don't go crazy, leave them and sand them out carefully with a hand held sander or even sand paper. Work your way up to a 120 grit sanding pad and get all of the existing poly & stain off the floor. If dark spots where the stain absorbed into the end grain remain leave them, just pick a similarly dark color for the refinish. You now have either a perfectly fresh slate for refinishing or a partially fresh slate for refinishing depending on how many imperfections you left to be sanded out by hand. The deformation of deep gouges can be left as long as you get the poly out/off one way or another. I've even used a scraper followed by sand paper to leave character.

There are a plethora of options for refinishing. Stain & poly, modern 2 part finishes of all sorts, or the 100+ year old method of shellacking. *Downside, you loose much of the character you've come to know in that floor, if you decide to leave marks and scratches it can be labor intensive to remove the poly in those areas by hand. *Upside, you have a fresh slate to work with. Color will be uniform and you'll have confidence that the problematic finish of today is gone. Depending on the type of finish you choose the character will cartainly return as the wood is still of a soft species (albeit hopefully not with poly peeling off since we know that's not a great option for soft woods) depending on how thick the floor is you may or may not retain the ability to do a complete sand again someday if desired.

Many people will say option 1 is a bad idea, with me being in agreement. Most people want a modern floor to be maitenanve free and last a lifetime, which you will probably never have with a softwood floor anyways. It's your floor, and I recommend you do whatever you see fit, I feel people don't like your floor tell them to piss off and leave.

When I refinished our second floor, which consisted of about 1000sq ft of 140+ year old pine planks I elected to sand it all the way leaving all the little deformations and marks as long as the surface was sanded. In areas where deep gouges, scratches, or splits were present I used a scraper to hog out the area and soften the edges followed by a hand held orbital. I even cleaned up some of the tricky areas with sand paper by hand, so I didn't have to smooth out big nicks which I liked.

I then elected to apply two coats of 2# dewaxed garnet shellac for the deep rich brown color, which penetrates into the wood and gives it depth and protection for future nicks and dents (shellac itself is soft stuff after all). I topped it off with two coats of 2# blonde waxed shellac which act as a protective surface to the garnet, and somewhat sacrificially if need be as the floor wears over time from traffic.

The shellac is good for use with the soft floor, because it moves with the wood and won't crack or delaminate (peel). Each application of shellac melts into the previous resulting in one heavy layer of resin, which flexes with movement and dents/scratches with the wood. A dent looks just like it was there prior to finishing as the coating conforms to the shape of the wood always, and a scratch the same. I liked the added benefit of being able to some day patch areas which wear, without having to sand the entire floor again. With some heavy scrubbing using alcohol on a rag I can scrub the shellac off an area and reapply another coat, or by simply cleaning the surface apply an entirely new top coat with confidence that it'll bond well to what is already there.

I goofed up applying the shellac in the middle of one of the floors. I must have set the applicator down and taken a phone call or something because I left a gigantic blob of shellac which dried all gnarly. My wife noticed it and I went about scrubbing the finish off and reapplying smack in the middle of the floor. It wasn't easy, but it sure as hell was easier than rescanning the entire floor and starting over.

Reading every article on the internet you will find every opinion under the sun from expierienced professionals who do this stuff for a living. Most will say to sandall the way and apply a modern two part finish which will cure rock hard and will be advertised to create a super hard film which protects the wood indefinitely - until it doesn't. Most all of these finishes are not available to the DIYer and most require skills & experience that a DIYer doesn't have (including me). Yes shellac wears faster than those finishes and even poly, however it won't flake and peel when it does. After years of use the floor will look just that: used, which is what I wanted, not peely, chipped, and in need of a complete sand to bare wood.

The shellac was very forgiving to work with and apply. It's very well suited for the DIY application.

If you have any interest in shellac I recommend you buy flake and mix your own dewaxed shellac with alcohol. I chose to buy waxed amber shellac by the gallon as it was available at big box stores all throughout my area. I have plenty of dewaxed garnet flake left over and if you want I can drop some in the mail for you to experiment with, just PM me your address.

I'll snap some images of our floor and some of the areas I left for character as I get the chance.

Wavy edges and splintered boards I just sanded deep with a hand held orbital to smooth everything out.


You can see the dents and dings which were left behind even with a solid floor sanding.


This was the worst area where I had water damage to the original floor. I replaced the worst board with another and scraped the rot away, finishing up with a sander to smooth everything out. It's a gap, and it collects dust, but it's also original.


A bit dirty with drywall dust as a crew had just torn a bunch of walls out after we lost part of the roof in a storm and rain saturated the house. But this gives you an idea of the color and depth shellac gives wood. As you walk around the room boards "pop" and change color as the light reflects off the resin absorbed deep within the wood grain.