Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Posted: 2/19/2017 10:45:19 PM EDT
I'm going to try and finally document one of these projects. I'll be taking on my kitchen remodel myself, a full gut job. Floors, countertops, cabinets, tile backsplash etc. I've done at least a little of everything over the years so I'm feeling confident, mostly. We bought this house just under two years ago and I've replaced every window and door and just about every piece of trim. As well as some other stuff like installing a wood stove, replacing wrought iron banisters with wood, railings etc.

So far all we have done for the kitchen is acquire our new appliances: fridge, range, over range microwave and dishwasher; and sorted out our layout. Now I can use their dimensions to order the cabinets over the next week or two.

We plan to get our cabinets, at this moment, from LilyAnnCabinets. Countertop and everything else will be local.

My SO is the designer. I don't give a shit about colors and designs for the most part. She has great taste in my opinion and I don't have time to waste arguing over a faucet handle shape or whatever. If it looks ridiculous I say no, otherwise, it's basically up to her.


I'm right at the verge of starting, just running through some stuff in my head before I dive in. Biding myself some time, really, if I'm being honest. Just reading more and more and trying to make sure I'm not over looking something (I know I must be but I won't know until I get there) What I'd like to ask from you guys at this point is; what did you wish you did differently after you remodeled yours? What am I forgetting to think about? I'm a tradesman, so I understand the intricacies of each trade, and am smart enough to know I'm not a professional kitchen guy. So what would you guess I'm missing? Tips or tricks etc?

Thanks in advance and wish me luck! I'll post some pics of the existing kitchen and a pic of the new proposed layout tomorrow when I get it on paper.
Link Posted: 2/19/2017 10:50:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Put more outlets in. Everywhere. Even in the island. Think ahead. Try to image your current kitchen layout and the likes/dislikes about it. Wishing fridge and stove were closer yada yada. Integrate a cabinet that holds a garbage can. That way its not sitting out in the open. Maybe put it close to dishwasher so you can chuck food on plate directly into garbage then into dishwasher.  
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 1:45:59 AM EDT
[#2]
If the kitchen abuts an outside wall, gutting time is a good time to peek being the drywall to fix any undisclosed termite damage.
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 10:17:33 AM EDT
[#3]
If you have any counters in other rooms, decide if they should also be replaced to match the kitchen counters. In our current house, the previous owner replaced the kitchen counters, but left the wetbar counter that's in the next room the original olive green laminate. 

If you're on a budget, check out the Habitat for Humanity Restore for cabinet hardware. I got enough nice handles and hinges to replace all of the hardware on all of the linen cabinets.
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 10:32:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Install wiring behind drywall and a electrical box and.switch for under cabinet lighting. Makes for a cleaner install than running wires along the cabinets
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 10:53:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Run the water line for your fridge before you put in the cabinets...
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 11:17:24 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm in...did a complete gut and remod to our kitchen 1.5 years ago.
Watch where those can lights go if your changing the cabinet design from what is there now.

Good Luck!
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 4:21:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Thanks guys, this is exactly the stuff I was looking for. More/new electrical outlets was a big one I was missing on. Im doing a service upgrade in the spring so there are some electrical changes planned that will come down the road but outlets is a must before the backsplash etc. After that I will be adding recessed lighting, for now were going to stay with the one fixture until the service is done. There is one switch for that light, though, and it is in the worst possible spot so a three way is going to have to be added.

The fridge in the pictures is the new one and staying there. The stove and oven are being moved to a single unit range in the center of the "island" side, with a microwave/hood above it. So that is some more electrical to be done. Two outlets need to be added to that wall, too, and a two-way light switch.

Where the oven is now will be deleted and converted to counterspace, as well as where the stove is. Were going with a 32" one piece under-mount sink right in front of the window alleviating any serious plumbing. Ill have to add outlets all along that countertop and think about some under-counter lighting. Were definitely doing a pull-out trash cabinet, not sure where yet, its up to the woman.


Keep in mind here this house is a stepping stone house. Its a live-in-flip if you will. We got it dirt cheap for the area with great bones, brand new boiler and septic. We plan to be out in 3-5 more years, tops, and into our "forever home" (Im 31). Were just looking for quick sweat equity in this house. So what were doing in this kitchen isn't what we'd be doing in "our" kitchen. If were were going to be here forever Id move the door over to the left and make it a slider, then extend the counters out another few feet or so.


As you can see, it is almost entirely non-functional aside from the dishwasher being next to the sink lol There is no counter space, we had to get that stand on the other side of the door for the microwave. There is NO storage what so ever. Its horrible.
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


Beginning
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 4:43:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Have you considered taking out that wall and making an island?
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 5:25:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Have you considered taking out that wall and making an island?
View Quote


We did, it was our first thought and what we really wanted to do. But because this isn't going to be our "forever house" we didn't want to sink that money into it. First and foremost we need more cabinet storage. The over-the range microwave is going to end up on that wall, with a cabinet above it and on either side, so thats a pretty huge necessity for the space.

Its a load bearing wall, too, and the stretch would end up being over 20'. It would have been an expensive lam-beam and we wouldn't see the return on it we don't think. My other cheaper idea was to cut a big opening in it and make it a pass-through  / breakfast bar type thing but that was trumped by the need for storage, too.
Link Posted: 2/20/2017 9:51:09 PM EDT
[#10]
boy, you don't have much room. You could always knock that wall out and have a post running into island. Either on the side or top of counter top look.But like you said, you wouldn't be able to have storage above.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 9:24:06 AM EDT
[#11]
My kitchen was DIY remodeled by the previous owners in Nov. 2014. I bought it in May 2015 and will likely remodel the kitchen within 5 years because their DIY remodel sucked. Let me tell you what not to do based on how they screwed up.

When you put in a vent hood over the stove, make sure it vents outside and use insulated duct. The ones that just recirculate are just stupid and I don't know how they ever came to be. It's really annoying when mine just blows the smoky air back in my face.

Don't buy a cheap garbage disposal. The previous owners installed an InSinkErator Badger 5. It had a galvanized steel grind bowl and rusted through by Nov. 2016, just days outside of the 2-year warranty. It was leaking water through the power cord inlet. I replaced it with an InSinkErator Evolution Select Plus which has a stainless steel grind bowl and a 6-year warranty. It cost twice as much, but should last much more than twice as long.

Have a counter company install your counters. The previous owners royally screwed them up when they DIY'd it.They used laminate and screwed the underlayment to the cabinets from the top. Then they glued the laminate over the tops of the screws. The edging they put on isn't flush with the top all the way around so there's edges you can feel.

Make sure you line up and level your upper and lower cabinets. If both are level, the backsplash should be the same height all the way around. Mine isn't and it loses a full 1" tile as you go across the room.

When you install the backsplash, don't just end a row of tiles and call it good. Use some tile edging for a nice, clean finished edge instead of cut tiles with some thinset sticking out like mine.

Every outlet needs to be in an electrical box. My previous owners put one in a 3" wide spacer between cabinets by simply cutting a hole in the space and using a wood screw to mount the outlet. Just because you can't reach the back because it has cabinets on either side doesn't mean you don't need an electrical box.

When you install a switch and an outlet in the same electrical box, put the switch on the side you will most commonly reach for it from. My garbage disposal switch is on the other side of an outlet from the sink. I have to reach around the coffee maker's cord to hit the switch.

If you're gutting, add an ice maker outlet box and use a stainless steel supply line. If you currently have a saddle valve installed on a water line to feed the ice maker, use a slip coupling to remove and replace the saddle valve so it never leaks.

Use 1/4-turn supply stop valves and stainless steel supply lines for all faucets.

When you install your sink drains, use solid pipe and cut it to the necessary lengths to fit. Don't make-do and make it simple by using the flexible corrugated drains that will quickly clog with food scraps. Spend the extra time and buy the extra pipe to make it all out of solid pipe.

Use silicone caulk to seal the backsplash to the counter. Never use acrylic if you can help it. Acrylic will dry out and crack in a few years.

When you install quarter round molding along the upper cabinets and ceilings, use painter's caulk to fill and gap between it and the ceiling prior to painting. I have a nice, unsightly gap all along my ceiling because they didn't caulk it.

Consider a dual-fuel range with a gas cooktop and electric oven. Don't install the gas for the gas range by T'ing into the dryer's gas valve in the adjacent room and running CSST through the drywall from the laundry room into the kitchen. Do it right and run it's own line up from below with a separate shutoff valve.

When you put your flooring down, do it before the cabinets and do the whole room. That way, if someone wants to rearrange the cabinets, they don't need to redo the floor too. It's also usually fewer cuts and doesn't cost much extra at all.

Be sure to seal all grout in tile floors so that it stays cleaner longer.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's more. Can you tell I think the previous owners did a shit job at DIY? The kitchen isn't the only DIY project they screwed up. Pretty much every DIY project they did, they did wrong.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 11:27:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My kitchen was DIY remodeled by the previous owners in Nov. 2014. I bought it in May 2015 and will likely remodel the kitchen within 5 years because their DIY remodel sucked. Let me tell you what not to do based on how they screwed up.

When you put in a vent hood over the stove, make sure it vents outside and use insulated duct. The ones that just recirculate are just stupid and I don't know how they ever came to be. It's really annoying when mine just blows the smoky air back in my face.

Don't buy a cheap garbage disposal. The previous owners installed an InSinkErator Badger 5. It had a galvanized steel grind bowl and rusted through by Nov. 2016, just days outside of the 2-year warranty. It was leaking water through the power cord inlet. I replaced it with an InSinkErator Evolution Select Plus which has a stainless steel grind bowl and a 6-year warranty. It cost twice as much, but should last much more than twice as long.

Have a counter company install your counters. The previous owners royally screwed them up when they DIY'd it.They used laminate and screwed the underlayment to the cabinets from the top. Then they glued the laminate over the tops of the screws. The edging they put on isn't flush with the top all the way around so there's edges you can feel.

Make sure you line up and level your upper and lower cabinets. If both are level, the backsplash should be the same height all the way around. Mine isn't and it loses a full 1" tile as you go across the room.

When you install the backsplash, don't just end a row of tiles and call it good. Use some tile edging for a nice, clean finished edge instead of cut tiles with some thinset sticking out like mine.

Every outlet needs to be in an electrical box. My previous owners put one in a 3" wide spacer between cabinets by simply cutting a hole in the space and using a wood screw to mount the outlet. Just because you can't reach the back because it has cabinets on either side doesn't mean you don't need an electrical box.

When you install a switch and an outlet in the same electrical box, put the switch on the side you will most commonly reach for it from. My garbage disposal switch is on the other side of an outlet from the sink. I have to reach around the coffee maker's cord to hit the switch.

If you're gutting, add an ice maker outlet box and use a stainless steel supply line. If you currently have a saddle valve installed on a water line to feed the ice maker, use a slip coupling to remove and replace the saddle valve so it never leaks.

Use 1/4-turn supply stop valves and stainless steel supply lines for all faucets.

When you install your sink drains, use solid pipe and cut it to the necessary lengths to fit. Don't make-do and make it simple by using the flexible corrugated drains that will quickly clog with food scraps. Spend the extra time and buy the extra pipe to make it all out of solid pipe.

Use silicone caulk to seal the backsplash to the counter. Never use acrylic if you can help it. Acrylic will dry out and crack in a few years.

When you install quarter round molding along the upper cabinets and ceilings, use painter's caulk to fill and gap between it and the ceiling prior to painting. I have a nice, unsightly gap all along my ceiling because they didn't caulk it.

Consider a dual-fuel range with a gas cooktop and electric oven. Don't install the gas for the gas range by T'ing into the dryer's gas valve in the adjacent room and running CSST through the drywall from the laundry room into the kitchen. Do it right and run it's own line up from below with a separate shutoff valve.

When you put your flooring down, do it before the cabinets and do the whole room. That way, if someone wants to rearrange the cabinets, they don't need to redo the floor too. It's also usually fewer cuts and doesn't cost much extra at all.

Be sure to seal all grout in tile floors so that it stays cleaner longer.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but I'm sure there's more. Can you tell I think the previous owners did a shit job at DIY? The kitchen isn't the only DIY project they screwed up. Pretty much every DIY project they did, they did wrong.
View Quote


Thank you for that!

Im an apprentice electrician so that stuff will be well handled. We don't have gas so thats out for the stove. And we have septic, so no in-sink-erator and we can't let food go down the drain anyways.

The people we bought this house from were a real treat, too. I removed wall sconces in the lower level to paint and found they were installed with "speaker wire". One of them didn't work and I found out its because it wasn't wired at all. They duct taped the leads to the wall so they wouldn't touch each other. They didn't even cut the bare wire off the ends. Im surprised the house is not torched. That was the day I went straight to HD and replaced every single outlet and switch in the house. It needed to be done anyways, but for peace of mind. Everything they did in the house was like that as well.

I will be having a local company install the counter tops. Were probably going with granite and Im not trying to move it and/or risk breaking it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 12:07:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thank you for that!

Im an apprentice electrician so that stuff will be well handled.
View Quote

As an electrician, you'll appreciate this:
Attachment Attached File

That's what I found when I removed the recessed medicine cabinet in the bathroom. The medicine cabinet was held in by a single drywall screw. That scrap of wood the electrical box is attached to was on a stud that they cut so they could install the recessed medicine cabinet. Didn't bother installing headers for the cut studs, just left them hanging out.The light fixture powered by that box had a single screw attaching it to the stud that had been cut. That's exactly how the wires were when I pulled the medicine cabinet out. Didn't even bother to stuff them in the box. And why it was 14-3 to a lighting box, who knows.

Yea, that's about how this whole house has gone. I've completely overhauled the electrical by replacing every outlet/switch, upgrading the main panel from 20-slot/100A to 40-slot/200A, separated some things on to their own circuit (such as the bathroom I remodeled and made two 20A circuits), and still have more to do. Such as my 1HP pool pump motor that's on a 15A circuit breaker that also powers 3 basement outlets that have a refrigerator and media center equipment.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 12:24:20 PM EDT
[#14]
We just did a DIY kitchen.  Pulled down a wall (not load bearing) between kitchen and a too small formal dining room.  Gutted the kitchen down to the drywall.  I had planned on re-doing the drywall too, but there was no real reason too.  Total rewire (had an electrician come in and do the main wire pulls back to a new service panel), new oven, new cooktop, all new cabinetry, corian counters, new ceiling, new floor, new window moldings and trims, new baseboard.  Wood is all hard maple.  Viking double oven, Thermadore 36" cook top, Thermadore downdraft system.

Still have a bit of work to do.  The hardwood supplier we were getting maple from ran out of enough maple with enough width to do the baseboard and I need to machine another 30' or so of it.  So baseboard, toe kicks, and a few feet of 1/4 round are mia for now.  I don't have a heated workspace so machining the wood, sanding it, staining it, and putting a couple coats of polyurethane over it will have to wait till spring.

Still have a million nail and screw sets to do and cover.  Not looking forward to that.  

I did most of it myself - I had a licensed electrician run the main wire pulls and help me figure out circuits.  Only had 3 circuits for the entire kitchen before, We added about 5 more.  Had to run a new run for the oven as it required a 50 amp circuit.   A friend of mine does corian and quartz counters for a living, I had him do the counters.   I had the flooring supplier do the install on the LVT flooring, cost me a bit, but he had the right tools and know how, he was in and out in 4-5 hours.  

We went with under-cabinet plug molding for most of the kitchen.  We used LeGrande Adorne plug mold - also used their under cabinet LED lighting system which wires in with the plug molds.  It's awesome.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 1:28:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We just did a DIY kitchen.  Pulled down a wall (not load bearing) between kitchen and a too small formal dining room.  Gutted the kitchen down to the drywall.  I had planned on re-doing the drywall too, but there was no real reason too.  Total rewire (had an electrician come in and do the main wire pulls back to a new service panel), new oven, new cooktop, all new cabinetry, corian counters, new ceiling, new floor, new window moldings and trims, new baseboard.  Wood is all hard maple.  Viking double oven, Thermadore 36" cook top, Thermadore downdraft system.

Still have a bit of work to do.  The hardwood supplier we were getting maple from ran out of enough maple with enough width to do the baseboard and I need to machine another 30' or so of it.  So baseboard, toe kicks, and a few feet of 1/4 round are mia for now.  I don't have a heated workspace so machining the wood, sanding it, staining it, and putting a couple coats of polyurethane over it will have to wait till spring.

Still have a million nail and screw sets to do and cover.  Not looking forward to that.  

I did most of it myself - I had a licensed electrician run the main wire pulls and help me figure out circuits.  Only had 3 circuits for the entire kitchen before, We added about 5 more.  Had to run a new run for the oven as it required a 50 amp circuit.   A friend of mine does corian and quartz counters for a living, I had him do the counters.   I had the flooring supplier do the install on the LVT flooring, cost me a bit, but he had the right tools and know how, he was in and out in 4-5 hours.  

We went with under-cabinet plug molding for most of the kitchen.  We used LeGrande Adorne plug mold - also used their under cabinet LED lighting system which wires in with the plug molds.  It's awesome.
View Quote


Im seriously contemplating something like that. A buddy was just showing me a this completely modular under-cabinet electrical system. Its lights, plugs etc, even some neat little doodads. It was expensive but seemed more convenient than running 6 new outlets on 3 different walls.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 1:32:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

As an electrician, you'll appreciate this:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/293432/IMG-3498-151118.JPG
That's what I found when I removed the recessed medicine cabinet in the bathroom. The medicine cabinet was held in by a single drywall screw. That scrap of wood the electrical box is attached to was on a stud that they cut so they could install the recessed medicine cabinet. Didn't bother installing headers for the cut studs, just left them hanging out.The light fixture powered by that box had a single screw attaching it to the stud that had been cut. That's exactly how the wires were when I pulled the medicine cabinet out. Didn't even bother to stuff them in the box. And why it was 14-3 to a lighting box, who knows.

Yea, that's about how this whole house has gone. I've completely overhauled the electrical by replacing every outlet/switch, upgrading the main panel from 20-slot/100A to 40-slot/200A, separated some things on to their own circuit (such as the bathroom I remodeled and made two 20A circuits), and still have more to do. Such as my 1HP pool pump motor that's on a 15A circuit breaker that also powers 3 basement outlets that have a refrigerator and media center equipment.
View Quote


LOL, thats horrible. Sadly, I think I can match it or at least come close. As if the speaker wire wasn't bad enough . .

I had an outlet in my garage that didn't work. The drywall around it had a bunch of big holes in it so I just tore it down to replace it and this is what I found, exactly as it was. WTF is this shit!?!?! hahahaha

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 1:47:06 PM EDT
[#17]
This is one section of ours - there are a lot of gizmos you can get, various lights, usb chargers, etc.  The rocker switch on the right end controls the under cabinet lights, the pair of rockers on the left control some other lighting in the kitchen.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 2:46:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Use 20A tamper-resistant outlets.  Install combination AFCI-GFCI breakers on 20A circuits.  Dedicated runs for refrigerator and microwave.  As an electrician you probably know this stuff is required by code but it may benefit someone else reading.

If laying tile use a self-leveling floor product first.  Don't bother mixing the grout sealer in place of water when mixing the grout, it doesn't last and costs a lot of money.  Just seal your grout after it has cured.  And don't put it off and start using the kitchen because you'll never get it done in time.  

Use a manual tile cutter for straight cuts.  It will save you time and you don't have to walk back and forth outside like you do when using a wet tile saw.  When using a wet tile saw put the recirculating pump in a bucket of clean water and don't recycle the waste water it will extend the life of your saw blades.  You will chew through a few blades especially if cutting porcelain tile so buy more than one so you don't  have to stop working and make a trip to get another one.  Purchase a good set of tile nippers, a quality handheld carbide floor scraper (if on concrete slab), a flat trowel as well as the notched trowel.  It helps you manipulate the thinset and scraps up excess better than your hand.  

When laying the thinset  dampen the floor and the back of the tiles with water from a spray bottle.  Apply a very light mist only.  When floating the grout also use the spray bottle to apply a mist over the tile it acts as a lubricant and keeps the grout from rolling over on itself.  A great help is if you have someone that can mix the grout for you so you can keep applying.  While their next batch of grout is resting after the initial mix they can start sponging off the excess grout and tooling the grout lines.

Shoot a laser around the perimeter of the walls to find the high/low spots before installing base cabinets and hanging cabinets.  Use fender washers when hanging your cabinets.

Go with LED light fixtures and make sure your SO tolerates the light color before buying a bunch of light bulbs.

Invest in an impacting screw gun and use the Torx  bit screws you'll wonder how you got along without one.

Reiterate the use of 1/4 turn ball shutoff valves.
Link Posted: 2/21/2017 8:34:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Thanks AR15Texan, sounds like you might have done this a couple times. Thats a wealth of good info.



I got a little time to get further ahead in the design today. LilyAnnCabinets has been a really easy site to use. I've been going through and working on one wall at a time, adding the cabinets and features to my cart as I go, and I'm able to save them as three separate quotes. Any after thoughts are easy to navigate and change. I can be a bit of a perfectionist and Im trying to utilize every square inch of the room. This is all I had time for tonight. All thats left now is the eastern wall, unless I wake up in the middle of the night with an idea and start over. (ha)

This design sketch is probably gibberish to anyone else looking but it makes perfect sense to me.

Black = Room Feature (Wall, Door, Window)
Red = Appliance
Blue Outline = Base Cabinet
Shaded Blue & Outline = Wall Cabinet

Attachment Attached File
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top