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Posted: 1/21/2015 11:55:20 AM EDT
I had to relocate the ice maker water supply line due to it running directly across the attic access. After several failed attempts with compression fittings I decided I would just buy a few couplers and solder the connections. Go to the local box store and buy 1/4" coupler with stop. They are far too big to join the 1/4" copper tubing. Thought maybe I grabbed a mislabeled bag. Went to another store, bought another few 1/4" couplers, and its the same deal. What am I missing here?
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 11:59:59 AM EDT
[#1]
perhaps inside diameter versus outside diameter?
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 12:06:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I had to relocate the ice maker water supply line due to it running directly across the attic access. After several failed attempts with compression fittings I decided I would just buy a few couplers and solder the connections. Go to the local box store and buy 1/4" coupler with stop. They are far too big to join the 1/4" copper tubing. Thought maybe I grabbed a mislabeled bag. Went to another store, bought another few 1/4" couplers, and its the same deal. What am I missing here?
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I believe that there a difference in size between copper pipe and  copper tube
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 12:09:48 PM EDT
[#3]

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Quoted:


perhaps inside diameter versus outside diameter?
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Thought about that. Its the smallest coupler sold at either HD or Lowes as best as I can tell.




ID - .372"

OD - .438"




This is what I bought.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 12:14:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Why not flare the copper tubing?
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 12:22:12 PM EDT
[#5]

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Quoted:


Why not flare the copper tubing?
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Never done much of any plumbing work, as such I don't have any of the required tools. I am an IT guy.

But I do have solder, flux and flame.




The only reason I had to move the line was that I had an electrician redo my main feed to the house. No way he would have been able to haul everything up the access with that line in the way. Just figured it would be a quick job. Didn't realize after several trips to the hardware store this job would be more frustrating than dealing with Indian "customer care technicians".
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 1:24:24 PM EDT
[#6]
What was the problem you had with the  compression fittings ?
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 1:29:27 PM EDT
[#7]

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Quoted:


What was the problem you had with the  compression fittings ?
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The way the line has to go its impossible to get a straight run for the connection. They all leaked, albeit slightly, no matter what I did.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 2:29:09 PM EDT
[#8]
A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      

If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.

Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 2:47:55 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      

If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.

Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      

If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.

Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.



Oy.

ALL metallic tubing products (except for very specialized applications) are specified on OD, either nominal or actual. That way one fitting can be used for different wall thickness tubing.

If the 1/4" coupling the OP bought at Lowes is too large, the problem isn't the coupling, it's the tubing.  My guess is that it's actually 1/8" nominal.  It *might* be 3/16, but only if an HVAC guy was running the plumbing.

From Wikipedia"
In the American plumbing industry, the size of copper tubing is designated by its nominal diameter, which is 1/8th inch less than the outside diameter. (This nominal diameter does not match any other physical dimension on the pipe; it may be larger or smaller than the inside diameter depending on the size of pipe). The American refrigeration industry uses different copper pipe called ACR (air conditioning and refrigeration field services) pipe, which is sized directly by its outside diameter (OD) and a type letter indicating wall thickness. Therefore, 1 inch nominal type L copper tube and 1 1/8th inch type D ACR tube are exactly the same size with different size designations. ACR pipe is manufactured without processing oils that would be incompatible with the oils used to lubricate the compressors in the AC system.

Except for this difference between ACR (types A and D) and plumbing (types K, L, M and DWV) pipes, the type only indicates wall thickness and does not affect the outside diameter of the tube. Type K 1/2 inch, type L 1/2 inch, and type D 5/8 inch ACR all have the same outside diameter of 5/8 inch.


OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD.  But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 5:18:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Oy.

ALL metallic tubing products (except for very specialized applications) are specified on OD, either nominal or actual. That way one fitting can be used for different wall thickness tubing.

If the 1/4" coupling the OP bought at Lowes is too large, the problem isn't the coupling, it's the tubing.  My guess is that it's actually 1/8" nominal.  It *might* be 3/16, but only if an HVAC guy was running the plumbing.

From Wikipedia"


OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD. But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      

If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.

Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.



Oy.

ALL metallic tubing products (except for very specialized applications) are specified on OD, either nominal or actual. That way one fitting can be used for different wall thickness tubing.

If the 1/4" coupling the OP bought at Lowes is too large, the problem isn't the coupling, it's the tubing.  My guess is that it's actually 1/8" nominal.  It *might* be 3/16, but only if an HVAC guy was running the plumbing.

From Wikipedia"
In the American plumbing industry, the size of copper tubing is designated by its nominal diameter, which is 1/8th inch less than the outside diameter. (This nominal diameter does not match any other physical dimension on the pipe; it may be larger or smaller than the inside diameter depending on the size of pipe). The American refrigeration industry uses different copper pipe called ACR (air conditioning and refrigeration field services) pipe, which is sized directly by its outside diameter (OD) and a type letter indicating wall thickness. Therefore, 1 inch nominal type L copper tube and 1 1/8th inch type D ACR tube are exactly the same size with different size designations. ACR pipe is manufactured without processing oils that would be incompatible with the oils used to lubricate the compressors in the AC system.

Except for this difference between ACR (types A and D) and plumbing (types K, L, M and DWV) pipes, the type only indicates wall thickness and does not affect the outside diameter of the tube. Type K 1/2 inch, type L 1/2 inch, and type D 5/8 inch ACR all have the same outside diameter of 5/8 inch.


OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD. But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.



You too, Oy

That's correct.

Yes it is.  Plumbing, potable and DWV, is specified by a "nominal" I.D..  Yes the ID varies due to wall thickness but the exterior remains constant so the fittings- fit...     ACR is a different spec..

It is confusing with ice makers because the pipe is for potable water but they aren't spec'd / sized as such on the label.  That's what happened to the OP.  

Take a look at any plumbing drawing and you will notice that a 1" copper water main isn't spec'd as 1.125 copper.  

Link Posted: 1/21/2015 5:42:07 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:



You too, Oy

That's correct.

Yes it is.  Plumbing, potable and DWV, is specified by a "nominal" I.D..  Yes the ID varies due to wall thickness but the exterior remains constant so the fittings- fit...     ACR is a different spec..

It is confusing with ice makers because the pipe is for potable water but they aren't spec'd / sized as such on the label.  That's what happened to the OP.  

Take a look at any plumbing drawing and you will notice that a 1" copper water main isn't spec'd as 1.125 copper.  

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      

If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.

Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.



Oy.

ALL metallic tubing products (except for very specialized applications) are specified on OD, either nominal or actual. That way one fitting can be used for different wall thickness tubing.

If the 1/4" coupling the OP bought at Lowes is too large, the problem isn't the coupling, it's the tubing.  My guess is that it's actually 1/8" nominal.  It *might* be 3/16, but only if an HVAC guy was running the plumbing.

From Wikipedia"
In the American plumbing industry, the size of copper tubing is designated by its nominal diameter, which is 1/8th inch less than the outside diameter. (This nominal diameter does not match any other physical dimension on the pipe; it may be larger or smaller than the inside diameter depending on the size of pipe). The American refrigeration industry uses different copper pipe called ACR (air conditioning and refrigeration field services) pipe, which is sized directly by its outside diameter (OD) and a type letter indicating wall thickness. Therefore, 1 inch nominal type L copper tube and 1 1/8th inch type D ACR tube are exactly the same size with different size designations. ACR pipe is manufactured without processing oils that would be incompatible with the oils used to lubricate the compressors in the AC system.

Except for this difference between ACR (types A and D) and plumbing (types K, L, M and DWV) pipes, the type only indicates wall thickness and does not affect the outside diameter of the tube. Type K 1/2 inch, type L 1/2 inch, and type D 5/8 inch ACR all have the same outside diameter of 5/8 inch.


OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD. But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.



You too, Oy

That's correct.

Yes it is.  Plumbing, potable and DWV, is specified by a "nominal" I.D..  Yes the ID varies due to wall thickness but the exterior remains constant so the fittings- fit...     ACR is a different spec..

It is confusing with ice makers because the pipe is for potable water but they aren't spec'd / sized as such on the label.  That's what happened to the OP.  

Take a look at any plumbing drawing and you will notice that a 1" copper water main isn't spec'd as 1.125 copper.  



Ok, Oy and a half. :)

Copper is called out as a nominal *size*.

Copper OD= Nominal Size+.125"
Copper ID=Copper OD-(2*Wall Thickness)

ID is almost never an exact number.  It gets even worse for steel piping.  Drawings only ever call out nominal size and wall schedule (ferrous) or type (non ferrous) for wall thickness.

But I'm still scratching my head on the OP's routing problem.
Link Posted: 1/21/2015 6:26:53 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:


Ok, Oy and a half. :)

Copper is called out as a nominal *size*.

Copper OD= Nominal Size+.125"
Copper ID=Copper OD-(2*Wall Thickness)

ID is almost never an exact number.  It gets even worse for steel piping.  Drawings only ever call out nominal size and wall schedule (ferrous) or type (non ferrous) for wall thickness.

But I'm still scratching my head on the OP's routing problem.
View Quote



I know, it's screwy how the trades went in different directions...  Pissing match over

For the OP-  If the ferrule isn't sealing - the pipe, ferrule or compression fitting body likely has a gouge or isn't aligned properly. ETA, that's often the reason why some plumbers will apply a little pipe dope to all the surfaces before assembly...

I would cut the pipe back further and try it again with new compression fittings or clean the up everything and sweat as mentioned earlier.

In the FWIW department, I've found using brass compression fittings with poly ferrules works well.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 3:15:37 AM EDT
[#13]

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Quoted:
Ok, Oy and a half. :)



Copper is called out as a nominal *size*.



Copper OD= Nominal Size+.125"

Copper ID=Copper OD-(2*Wall Thickness)



ID is almost never an exact number.  It gets even worse for steel piping.  Drawings only ever call out nominal size and wall schedule (ferrous) or type (non ferrous) for wall thickness.



But I'm still scratching my head on the OP's routing problem.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

A HVAC supply house may have a sweat coupling that fits the tubing O.D..  Ask if they have a sweat fitting for "1/4 OD tubing".      



If you can't find one.. I have in the past cleaned up 1/4" brass compression couplings and soldered those to the copper.



Generally, plumbers call out pipe sizes by I.D., that's why the fittings you purchased are too large.






Oy.



ALL metallic tubing products (except for very specialized applications) are specified on OD, either nominal or actual. That way one fitting can be used for different wall thickness tubing.



If the 1/4" coupling the OP bought at Lowes is too large, the problem isn't the coupling, it's the tubing.  My guess is that it's actually 1/8" nominal.  It *might* be 3/16, but only if an HVAC guy was running the plumbing.



From Wikipedia"


In the American plumbing industry, the size of copper tubing is designated by its nominal diameter, which is 1/8th inch less than the outside diameter. (This nominal diameter does not match any other physical dimension on the pipe; it may be larger or smaller than the inside diameter depending on the size of pipe). The American refrigeration industry uses different copper pipe called ACR (air conditioning and refrigeration field services) pipe, which is sized directly by its outside diameter (OD) and a type letter indicating wall thickness. Therefore, 1 inch nominal type L copper tube and 1 1/8th inch type D ACR tube are exactly the same size with different size designations. ACR pipe is manufactured without processing oils that would be incompatible with the oils used to lubricate the compressors in the AC system.



Except for this difference between ACR (types A and D) and plumbing (types K, L, M and DWV) pipes, the type only indicates wall thickness and does not affect the outside diameter of the tube. Type K 1/2 inch, type L 1/2 inch, and type D 5/8 inch ACR all have the same outside diameter of 5/8 inch.




OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.



Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD. But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.






You too, Oy



That's correct.



Yes it is.  Plumbing, potable and DWV, is specified by a "nominal" I.D..  Yes the ID varies due to wall thickness but the exterior remains constant so the fittings- fit...     ACR is a different spec..



It is confusing with ice makers because the pipe is for potable water but they aren't spec'd / sized as such on the label.  That's what happened to the OP.  



Take a look at any plumbing drawing and you will notice that a 1" copper water main isn't spec'd as 1.125 copper.  







Ok, Oy and a half. :)



Copper is called out as a nominal *size*.



Copper OD= Nominal Size+.125"

Copper ID=Copper OD-(2*Wall Thickness)



ID is almost never an exact number.  It gets even worse for steel piping.  Drawings only ever call out nominal size and wall schedule (ferrous) or type (non ferrous) for wall thickness.



But I'm still scratching my head on the OP's routing problem.





 




The line taps the cold water supply from the water heater (W), routes up the wall into the attic. From there it basically snakes along the wall, around the access (A). Routes through the opening between the garage and the house (the parallel lines) and more or less straight to the fridge (F).




Originally it was a stright shot from where the line came into the attic to the opening into the house. But that put the line smack in the middle of the access. So I cut the line and intended on a soft curve around it, along the wall.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 3:19:45 AM EDT
[#14]

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Quoted:



OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.



Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD.  But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.
View Quote




 
In short, there is no close water supply for the fridge. Previous owners tapped the cold water supply in the laundry room for the ice maker (see diagram above). The tubing is 1/4" OD copper tubing from end to end. So if I am reading your post correctly, there simply is no such coupling for 1/4" OD Copper tubing?
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 11:12:23 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:

  In short, there is no close water supply for the fridge. Previous owners tapped the cold water supply in the laundry room for the ice maker (see diagram above). The tubing is 1/4" OD copper tubing from end to end. So if I am reading your post correctly, there simply is no such coupling for 1/4" OD Copper tubing?
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Quoted:
Quoted:

OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD.  But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.

  In short, there is no close water supply for the fridge. Previous owners tapped the cold water supply in the laundry room for the ice maker (see diagram above). The tubing is 1/4" OD copper tubing from end to end. So if I am reading your post correctly, there simply is no such coupling for 1/4" OD Copper tubing?


Sweat coupling?  No. Bzzzzt, wrong answer!

Looking at your layout, my advice would be to replace the whole line with polymer. Start at the tap and run it in a more accessible way.  Buy a *big* roll, because you don't want to have to deal with joints.  I know it sounds like a big expense for a trivial problem, but a compression fitting isn't working for you, and even if you could find a sweat fitting, with such a small diameter you run a substantial risk of flowing too much solder into the joint and plugging the line.

Either that or reevaluate the necessity of an icemaker in the garage.

Oh, and it's a laundry room and a garage.  No reason not to run the tubing in the occupied space.  Use small nail-in cable clips from the coax department at Lowes.  It will keep the water much cooler than in that Texas attic, decreasing the load on the fridge - that water is probably about 120F by the time it gets to the icemaker.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 12:03:48 PM EDT
[#16]
OP just needs to call a plumber to fix this simple issue since he is having a problem.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 1:08:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I had to relocate the ice maker water supply line due to it running directly across the attic access. After several failed attempts with compression fittings I decided I would just buy a few couplers and solder the connections. Go to the local box store and buy 1/4" coupler with stop. They are far too big to join the 1/4" copper tubing. Thought maybe I grabbed a mislabeled bag. Went to another store, bought another few 1/4" couplers, and its the same deal. What am I missing here?
View Quote



Lets start fresh.  What you seek is at a HVAC supply house or a well stocked plumbing supply.  Skip the big box chain stores.  People that manufacture copper pipe make fittings to join the ends... - Link

Clean the pipe and fitting properly then apply flux to the exterior of the pipe, not to the fitting.  If you apply flux to the interior of the fitting most of it will get pushed into the interior of the pipe which will encourage the solder to flow to the interior of the pipe.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 3:49:47 PM EDT
[#18]

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Quoted:
Lets start fresh.  What you seek is at a HVAC supply house or a well stocked plumbing supply.  Skip the big box chain stores.  People that manufacture copper pipe make fittings to join the ends... - Link



Clean the pipe and fitting properly then apply flux to the exterior of the pipe, not to the fitting.  If you apply flux to the interior of the fitting most of it will get pushed into the interior of the pipe which will encourage the solder to flow to the interior of the pipe.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

I had to relocate the ice maker water supply line due to it running directly across the attic access. After several failed attempts with compression fittings I decided I would just buy a few couplers and solder the connections. Go to the local box store and buy 1/4" coupler with stop. They are far too big to join the 1/4" copper tubing. Thought maybe I grabbed a mislabeled bag. Went to another store, bought another few 1/4" couplers, and its the same deal. What am I missing here?






Lets start fresh.  What you seek is at a HVAC supply house or a well stocked plumbing supply.  Skip the big box chain stores.  People that manufacture copper pipe make fittings to join the ends... - Link



Clean the pipe and fitting properly then apply flux to the exterior of the pipe, not to the fitting.  If you apply flux to the interior of the fitting most of it will get pushed into the interior of the pipe which will encourage the solder to flow to the interior of the pipe.




 



What nominal sized fitting, which is labeled as such, should I buy to join two 1/4" OD copper tubing ends?
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 3:54:46 PM EDT
[#19]

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Quoted:


OP just needs to call a plumber to fix this simple issue since he is having a problem.
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That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:05:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.
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Quoted:
OP just needs to call a plumber to fix this simple issue since he is having a problem.

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.



Take a bit of the pipe to your nearest plumbing supply store.  The one where all the plumbers get their stuff.   They'll hook you up.

Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:09:24 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

 

What nominal sized fitting, which is labeled as such, should I buy to join two 1/4" OD copper tubing ends?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I had to relocate the ice maker water supply line due to it running directly across the attic access. After several failed attempts with compression fittings I decided I would just buy a few couplers and solder the connections. Go to the local box store and buy 1/4" coupler with stop. They are far too big to join the 1/4" copper tubing. Thought maybe I grabbed a mislabeled bag. Went to another store, bought another few 1/4" couplers, and its the same deal. What am I missing here?



Lets start fresh.  What you seek is at a HVAC supply house or a well stocked plumbing supply.  Skip the big box chain stores.  People that manufacture copper pipe make fittings to join the ends... - Link

Clean the pipe and fitting properly then apply flux to the exterior of the pipe, not to the fitting.  If you apply flux to the interior of the fitting most of it will get pushed into the interior of the pipe which will encourage the solder to flow to the interior of the pipe.

 

What nominal sized fitting, which is labeled as such, should I buy to join two 1/4" OD copper tubing ends?


"1/8" CxC"
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:20:50 PM EDT
[#22]




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"1/8" CxC"
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Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:32:20 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
OP just needs to call a plumber to fix this simple issue since he is having a problem.

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.


Because of the difference between "nominal" sizing and "actual."

The best illustration is, appropriately enough, firearms calibers. Almost all cartridges are be specified by their nominal diameter. 30-06 actual projectile diameter is .308", but we say .30 caliber.  7.62x51 converts to .30 caliber - but actual diameter is .308".  With 7.62x39, actual diameter is .311.  And .303 British is also .311.

And don't even get down into the .22's.  220 Swift, 221 Remington Fireball, 222 Rem, 223 Rem, 224 something - all have the same diameter projectiles.  But not .22 Hornet - that's an actual .222.  And .22 LR is .221.

Copper piping is actually one of the more simple systems.  OD=Nominal +1/8" for plumbing. ACR (refrigeration copper) is sized on actual OD, because it's a different industry, and they use finer gradations of diameters.

Steel piping is even more fun.  As I recall:

Over 16" OD=Nominal
12-16" OD=Nominal + 3/8"
3-5" OD=Nominal +1/2"
Others, look on the schedule.

AND, wall sizes.  Schedule 10, 20, 40, 80, 120.  Or Std. Heavy, Extra Hvy, XXH.

(Sorry, was a welding/piping engineer for a few years.  You have NO idea."

Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:46:44 PM EDT
[#24]
I was always under the assumption that fittings where labeled for the OD of the pipe you were connecting. 1/4" coupling fits a 1/4" OD pipe or tubing. Clearly this was wrong.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:47:00 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.
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Quoted:
OP just needs to call a plumber to fix this simple issue since he is having a problem.

  That would cost me more money and I wouldn't learn anything. The line is not really a high priority. I seem to understand everything to do the job but why the hell a 1/4" fitting doesn't fit a 1/4" OD piece of tubing. Which is really what I am wanting to learn.


Because the refrigeration and the plumbing trades use different terminology.  The fittings that you purchased are for 3/8 inch OD / 1/4 ID pipe because they are labeled as such for plumbing, not ACR / refrigeration trades standard....  It stupid but that's the way it is...

If you ask for a 1/8" sweat coupling at a plumbing supply, you will get a fitting for 1/4 OD pipe.  If you ask for a 1/4" sweat coupling at a HVAC supply you will get a coupling for 1/4" OD pipe.  

Regardless of which type of supplier you go to, specifically state for 1/4 OD pipe just in case the counter person has their head up their arse.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 4:49:19 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I was always under the assumption that fittings where labeled for the OD of the pipe you were connecting. 1/4" coupling fits a 1/4" OD pipe or tubing. Clearly this was wrong.
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Yes, depending on the trade.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 5:01:55 PM EDT
[#27]
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Sweat coupling?  No.

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Are you certain?
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 5:13:10 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:


Are you certain?
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Quoted:

Sweat coupling?  No.



Are you certain?


Given the link to the manufacturer who makes them, I was incorrect.  But before posting that I did go to a couple of online plumbing supply places and they noted that sizes below 1/4" CxC were not available. Should have interpreted it as "not available from them."
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 5:13:28 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


Sweat coupling?  No.

Looking at your layout, my advice would be to replace the whole line with polymer. Start at the tap and run it in a more accessible way.  Buy a *big* roll, because you don't want to have to deal with joints.  I know it sounds like a big expense for a trivial problem, but a compression fitting isn't working for you, and even if you could find a sweat fitting, with such a small diameter you run a substantial risk of flowing too much solder into the joint and plugging the line.

Either that or reevaluate the necessity of an icemaker in the garage.

Oh, and it's a laundry room and a garage.  No reason not to run the tubing in the occupied space.  Use small nail-in cable clips from the coax department at Lowes.  It will keep the water much cooler than in that Texas attic, decreasing the load on the fridge - that water is probably about 120F by the time it gets to the icemaker.
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OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD.  But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.

  In short, there is no close water supply for the fridge. Previous owners tapped the cold water supply in the laundry room for the ice maker (see diagram above). The tubing is 1/4" OD copper tubing from end to end. So if I am reading your post correctly, there simply is no such coupling for 1/4" OD Copper tubing?


Sweat coupling?  No.

Looking at your layout, my advice would be to replace the whole line with polymer. Start at the tap and run it in a more accessible way.  Buy a *big* roll, because you don't want to have to deal with joints.  I know it sounds like a big expense for a trivial problem, but a compression fitting isn't working for you, and even if you could find a sweat fitting, with such a small diameter you run a substantial risk of flowing too much solder into the joint and plugging the line.

Either that or reevaluate the necessity of an icemaker in the garage.

Oh, and it's a laundry room and a garage.  No reason not to run the tubing in the occupied space.  Use small nail-in cable clips from the coax department at Lowes.  It will keep the water much cooler than in that Texas attic, decreasing the load on the fridge - that water is probably about 120F by the time it gets to the icemaker.


My thought also to just replace the entire line.

I would hate the thought of having a bunch of splices in a line that is above the ceiling.  Too much could go wrong with just a pinhole size leak.

I did not see if you mentioned what type of foundation you have.  If it is a crawlspace it may be easier and less future headache to go that route.  Also less likely that someone in the future would damage it..
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 5:17:10 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:


My thought also to just replace the entire line.

I would hate the thought of having a bunch of splices in a line that is above the ceiling.  Too much could go wrong with just a pinhole size leak.

I did not see if you mentioned what type of foundation you have.  If it is a crawlspace it may be easier and less future headache to go that route.  Also less likely that someone in the future would damage it..
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

OP, can you give a more specific description of the problem?  Something sounds wonky - most icemaker taps are run in plastic, not copper. And I've never heard of one run in an attic - too much risk of freezing.

Edited because ACR tubing is actual OD.  But copper tube sizes for plumbing aren't specified on ID either. If the OP's copper line is 1/4" actual OD, that means he needs a 1/8" plumbing sweat fitting - no such animal.  He might be able to get a 1/4" copper braze fitting, but the clearances are different than for sweat, so YMMV.

  In short, there is no close water supply for the fridge. Previous owners tapped the cold water supply in the laundry room for the ice maker (see diagram above). The tubing is 1/4" OD copper tubing from end to end. So if I am reading your post correctly, there simply is no such coupling for 1/4" OD Copper tubing?


Sweat coupling?  No.

Looking at your layout, my advice would be to replace the whole line with polymer. Start at the tap and run it in a more accessible way.  Buy a *big* roll, because you don't want to have to deal with joints.  I know it sounds like a big expense for a trivial problem, but a compression fitting isn't working for you, and even if you could find a sweat fitting, with such a small diameter you run a substantial risk of flowing too much solder into the joint and plugging the line.

Either that or reevaluate the necessity of an icemaker in the garage.

Oh, and it's a laundry room and a garage.  No reason not to run the tubing in the occupied space.  Use small nail-in cable clips from the coax department at Lowes.  It will keep the water much cooler than in that Texas attic, decreasing the load on the fridge - that water is probably about 120F by the time it gets to the icemaker.


My thought also to just replace the entire line.

I would hate the thought of having a bunch of splices in a line that is above the ceiling.  Too much could go wrong with just a pinhole size leak.

I did not see if you mentioned what type of foundation you have.  If it is a crawlspace it may be easier and less future headache to go that route.  Also less likely that someone in the future would damage it..


It's Texas so I assumed on slab - that's why I suggested just running exposed.
Link Posted: 1/22/2015 5:21:57 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:


Given the link to the manufacturer who makes them, I was incorrect.  But before posting that I did go to a couple of online plumbing supply places and they noted that sizes below 1/4" CxC were not available. Should have interpreted it as "not available from them."
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Sweat coupling?  No.



Are you certain?


Given the link to the manufacturer who makes them, I was incorrect.  But before posting that I did go to a couple of online plumbing supply places and they noted that sizes below 1/4" CxC were not available. Should have interpreted it as "not available from them."



OK.  What I like about ar15.com is that there are so many people that try to help each other out.  I've been guilty of of a well intentioned foot in mouth too, take care
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 6:20:21 AM EDT
[#32]

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It's Texas so I assumed on slab - that's why I suggested just running exposed.
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Correct, my foundation is slab. The garage is actually converted/finished. Its my man cave/armory. So running the line exposed is not really an option.
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 6:35:08 AM EDT
[#33]
You should try a light coating of pipe dope (teflon PASTE) on your compression fitting ferrules and see if you can get it to hold. If not, cut the nuts and ferrules off and solder them using the brass compression coupling body as a coupling. You already have what you seek...
Link Posted: 1/23/2015 9:32:37 PM EDT
[#34]
You could also likely use a 3/8 OD  pipe as a coupling since it has roughly the same ID as the 1/4 OD
2 sweat joints vs 4 if you use a longer pc
Link Posted: 1/24/2015 3:57:13 AM EDT
[#35]
A lot of people have problems with compression fittings by tightening them to much, snug it up and give it another quarter bump and it's done. No need to get gorilla with it.
Link Posted: 1/26/2015 2:07:23 PM EDT
[#36]
replace the whole line with polymer.
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A BAD recommendation.

Unless you get expensive tube with a metal jacket the taste of the water can get downright cruddy.

Having ANY joints is not worth the nominal cost of a new coil iof copper tube.

And pipe and tube are not measured the same way.

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