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Posted: 6/30/2014 5:48:12 AM EDT
This would be my first attempt at laying tile ever. The downstairs of my townhouse is currently carpeted but unfortunately the dogs have ruined it by peeing. After a discussion in GD about what flooring options to pursue someone mentioned ceramic tile that looks like wood. After seeing it in person and online I've decided that is the best route to pursue.

The floor underneath the carpet is concrete.

How do I start the process? My plan was to rip up the carpet in sections, bleach and then seal the floor.

I would assume I have to check to make sure the floor is level (how do I do that, I assume a level but what size and if it isn't how is it fixed?) Ideally I'd like to lay the tile somewhat close together so there isn't much of an area for grout.

Any tips, how tos, etc would be appreciated.

I rate my skills as intermediate when it comes to home projects but am always looking to learn, expand, etc. I also know when I'm in over my head and do seek help.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 5:56:41 AM EDT
[#1]
you generally "level it" with thinset or whatever you are holding the tile down with.
"mud" is the term I believe if you have to use a lot of it to level. not sure if it is the same as the thinset used to hold it down however.

the guy that did our floor also used those chaulk stringers to lay out a grid for where the tile would go.

he didn't use spacers, but I have seen for the diy types that they make plastic spacers to go between the tiles so you get a uniform grout line.

you may or may not have seen there are a couple of types of that wood tile.
one is large 14 or 18x18 squares and the other is the invidvidual slats.

depending on how many grout lines you plan on making or the overall look, you may consider a different tile.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 6:04:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Op good luck. I'm fixing to do the same throughout my house. I would Google some info but here's what I'm going to do. My carpet is ripped out so I'm going to scrape up any leftover glue, paint, or texture from the ceiling and clean the floor well. I'm not going to sill the cement at all. Don't worry about the hole's left from the carpet tacks after there removed the thin set will cover those up. You can take a long straight edge and level to see how level the floor is but your probable alright and if not there's a floor leveler you can buy and poor or trowel on to level it.
I'm using 18" tiles so I'm going with 1/4" spacing for my grout, usually the bigger the tile the bigger the gap. If you have any cracks in the cement floor make sure and use a mesh strip to cover that so it will help the tile not crack if it cracks any more. Make sure you line up your pattern from a focal point such as an entrance doorway and then start laying it. My best suggestion is to find a flooring place that can sale you the materials and know what their talking about. I'm not buying from a big name store but a local expert. They are usually glad to help. Make sure and get the correct tools you will need also. Good luck.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 6:07:14 AM EDT
[#3]
<<<< Not a Pro

That being said, I've been down that road. The biggest surprise will be the cracks from the slab settling. They will likely do the same thing to the tile, so you'll need some kind of membrane. Ditra used to be the shit but I have not used it and have no long term experience with it. Spend the extra money, it will be worth it.

Second, I just pulled up a bunch of carpet that had bad dog piss stains. Even had to take out some baseboards that had been soaked. None of it soaked thru to the subfloor. Once it was all pulled up the smell went away. You may not need to do the bleach thing. Most important, I don't think you want any kind of sealer. That's what the mud stick to when you start laying time. If you seal it you might not get a good bond.

Layout. Take the time and plan the layout so you don't end up with a sliver on one wall and whole tile on the other. A couple chalk lines in the middle of the room and start there. Avoid the temptation to start against one wall, they are never square.

Enjoy the grout process. Take your time and it will look nice. Hurry it and it will drive you nuts for yrs to come.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 6:08:28 AM EDT
[#4]
I did this in my basement about 30 years ago, and it still looks perfect.  I used commercial grade tile, since there is a door, and that creates a high-traffic area.  

I don't know whether I would seal the floor.  I think I would clean it thoroughly, and then use a latex bonding agent over the clean floor before setting the tile.  I don't think I used a latex bonding agent in the basement because I don't think they were widely marketed back then.  I have used it for parging block walls, and it helps the cement scratch coat adhere to the block.  I would think it would do the same for thinset  It looks a little like Elmer's Glue,  It's milky white and dries clear, as  I recall.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 6:20:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Check your local Home Depot or Lowes, they give demonstration classes.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 8:35:27 AM EDT
[#6]
DITRA or other isolation membrane.
Unless there is a lot of insulation under the slab the floor will be COLD.

Doing it in 'panels' WILL show.
Link Posted: 6/30/2014 11:08:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Self-leveling underlayment will give you the smooth, flat surface you want before you lay any thinset mortar and tile.

Use a level to determine if your floor is level.  I like a big level (~6 ft) rather than a small one (2'-3').  You can use a tapered shim* to determine how out of flat the slab is.



*  I added a graduated scale to the top of the shim.  When you probe under the level, you can directly read the height difference by how far under the level the shim goes.
Link Posted: 7/1/2014 2:48:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Read the directions on self leveling product.  It flashes very quick.  As soon as it is mixed, you need to be fully prepared to get it spread out quickly.  I made this mistake once.............

Ditra is very expensive, in some cases more expensive than the tile.

Wood grain tile will make your house look like Burger King or McDonalds.  Just say no.

Red Guard is a great product, easy to apply, and cheaper than Ditra.  I had a ton of slab cracks, and with the use of this product, not a single cracked tile.  I also used it to seal both showers prior to tile.

Link Posted: 7/1/2014 8:44:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Any tips, how tos, etc would be appreciated.
View Quote

the ARFCOM of setting tile:

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/

you should create an account and post your question there.

ps
here's what NOT to do... 275 pages (and growing) of disasters...
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71950

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:47:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

the ARFCOM of setting tile:

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/

you should create an account and post your question there.

ps
here's what NOT to do... 275 pages (and growing) of disasters...
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71950

ar-jedi
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Any tips, how tos, etc would be appreciated.

the ARFCOM of setting tile:

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/

you should create an account and post your question there.

ps
here's what NOT to do... 275 pages (and growing) of disasters...
http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=71950

ar-jedi


Much appreciated! As are ALL of the replies!
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 4:13:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Read the directions on self leveling product.  It flashes very quick.  As soon as it is mixed, you need to be fully prepared to get it spread out quickly.  I made this mistake once.............

Ditra is very expensive, in some cases more expensive than the tile.

Wood grain tile will make your house look like Burger King or McDonalds.  Just say no.

Red Guard is a great product, easy to apply, and cheaper than Ditra.  I had a ton of slab cracks, and with the use of this product, not a single cracked tile.  I also used it to seal both showers prior to tile.

View Quote


Do it right and cry over the money once.
Do it wrong to save money and end up with a cruddy job that cracks.
Link Posted: 7/2/2014 6:35:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do it right and cry over the money once.
Do it wrong to save money and end up with a cruddy job that cracks.
View Quote


Plus you get to pay to have it both removed and then replaced with a proper job.  Oh the joy!
Link Posted: 7/4/2014 3:00:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Ever think of staining the concrete? google it, it comes out real nice
Link Posted: 7/4/2014 4:27:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Plus you get to pay to have it both removed and then replaced with a proper job.  Oh the joy!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Do it right and cry over the money once.
Do it wrong to save money and end up with a cruddy job that cracks.


Plus you get to pay to have it both removed and then replaced with a proper job.  Oh the joy!


You should be saving enough by DIYing to afford even DITRA.
And Red guard is not a separation membrane.
It is a moisture/water barrier.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 10:55:22 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You should be saving enough by DIYing to afford even DITRA.
And Red guard is not a separation membrane.
It is a moisture/water barrier.
View Quote



From the Redgard web site -

"RedGard® creates a continuous waterproofing barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors."

It may not be as effective as Ditra but it does provide some strain relief.  If the floor is still moving or subsiding, ... well, everything has its limits.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 5:08:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



From the Redgard web site -

"RedGard® creates a continuous waterproofing barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors."

It may not be as effective as Ditra but it does provide some strain relief.  If the floor is still moving or subsiding, ... well, everything has its limits.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You should be saving enough by DIYing to afford even DITRA.
And Red guard is not a separation membrane.
It is a moisture/water barrier.



From the Redgard web site -

"RedGard® creates a continuous waterproofing barrier with outstanding adhesion and reduces crack transmission in tile and stone floors."

It may not be as effective as Ditra but it does provide some strain relief.  If the floor is still moving or subsiding, ... well, everything has its limits.


"reduces crack transmission"

It is called advertising.
I have a bridge to sell you.
Link Posted: 7/5/2014 7:59:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a bridge to sell you.
View Quote


I'm listening, ... How's the view from the top?  

Any cracks in this bridge of yours?  
Link Posted: 7/6/2014 11:14:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm listening, ... How's the view from the top?  

Any cracks in this bridge of yours?  
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a bridge to sell you.


I'm listening, ... How's the view from the top?  

Any cracks in this bridge of yours?  


All steel.
The caissons are getting a little old though.
No telling if there are any corrosion issues down below the river bed.

Just as field applied 'glue'/cement/epoxy/etc.) type joints are vary risky (Boston tunnel ceiling panel some to memory?) field applied 'membranes' are subject to way to many 'application errors' to be considered reliable.

The steps for even simple epoxy bonding of cable attachments in aircraft is a nightmare.
Each lot of epoxy must have N 'test' bonds made for later testing.
If more than a small percentage (of the already small percentage) of the test bonds fail, you get to remove and replace all the work.
We went back to screws/rivets for anchoring the cable ties.

That 'thin spot' in an applied surface coating IS going to leak more.
Is it over the limit?
How do you check a large area?
While spot measurements can be made, that does NOT indicate anything about a large area.

Funny thing about PE stamps. They never expire.
Link Posted: 7/6/2014 11:24:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Kemiko Acid stain.




Link Posted: 7/8/2014 4:15:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Redgard doesn't do a very good job at substantiating their crack isolation per their documentation

Look at ditra or custom crackbuster pro

Ditra is thinsetted down and crackbuster is a peel and stick on top of primer

Additionally, for large format tile you should look at a medium bed setting mortar vs thinset
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:41:13 AM EDT
[#21]
Ok guys. Sorry for taking so long to get back here. I'm looking for tile "naturalia ciliegio". Any ideas where I can find it. Avalon had it at $5.59 a sq/ft for a 6x19 and $6.39 for a 6x38 piece.

Pretty sure this is the stuff.

Naturalia Ciliegio
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 6:57:45 PM EDT
[#22]
See if you can find a ceramic tile, porcelain tile like that are pricey. We sell a wood ceramic for
2.45 sq.ft. I'll get the brand name and price for you. Don't seal the concrete! How bad are the cracks?
There are other ways to deal with cracks.
Link Posted: 8/1/2014 3:55:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
See if you can find a ceramic tile, porcelain tile like that are pricey. We sell a wood ceramic for
2.45 sq.ft. I'll get the brand name and price for you. Don't seal the concrete! How bad are the cracks?
There are other ways to deal with cracks.
View Quote


I don't know if it is cracked. Carpet is still down.

If you could get the name I'd appreciate it.
Link Posted: 8/1/2014 6:00:32 PM EDT
[#24]
look at interceramic colonial wood, oakwood and woodlands

Link Posted: 8/12/2014 1:15:54 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
look at interceramic colonial wood, oakwood and woodlands

View Quote


Where can this be purchased?
Link Posted: 8/12/2014 4:48:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Not sure where you are in PA, but there are no PA distributors listed.  I will go with your closest state who has them:  NJ!  they are all authorized distributors for Settecento brand tile:

Start here- Wayne Tile:  973-694-5480.  They have been around since 1953 and one of the go to places in all of NJ and many NYC folks.  Depending how much you need, ask for a better price. They can order it via the phone.  Pick-up might be worth a nice drive for you as shipping may be cost prohibitive.

Fuda Tile:  908-308-0110 (freehold, NJ)
Italian Tile Imports:  201-796-0722 (Elmwood Park, NJ)
Megan Tile:  973-673-6987 (East Orange, NJ)
Avalon Carpet & Tile: 856-834-5300 (Cherry Hill, NJ)
Tile Wholesalers of Newark:  973-589-2080 (Newark, NJ)

There is one online seller, who charges just over $5 a foot, plus shipping, but their reputation is not great.  Folks claim it is one man show NAND nothing is in stock, and others think he is selling factory seconds.  Who knows....I never used them.  You can do your own homework on them:  Value Floors Direct.

By the way...how old is the slab?  If it's older and settled, and no cracks, the chances of it cracking are slim.  A slab is cold in the winter no matter what, unless you heat it.  A layer of Ditra has a minimal minimal in warming the tile, so little you won't feel it.  Additionally, unless there are major pits, cracks or a huge slope difference, your mud is what you use to level.  Adding a self level over a fairly level floor is a wast of time and money.  It's a floor....not a lifetime commitment!  

Good luck and have fun and measure twice!
Link Posted: 8/13/2014 5:20:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Not sure where you are in PA, but there are no PA distributors listed.  I will go with your closest state who has them:  NJ!  they are all authorized distributors for Settecento brand tile:

Start here- Wayne Tile:  973-694-5480.  They have been around since 1953 and one of the go to places in all of NJ and many NYC folks.  Depending how much you need, ask for a better price. They can order it via the phone.  Pick-up might be worth a nice drive for you as shipping may be cost prohibitive.

Fuda Tile:  908-308-0110 (freehold, NJ)
Italian Tile Imports:  201-796-0722 (Elmwood Park, NJ)
Megan Tile:  973-673-6987 (East Orange, NJ)
Avalon Carpet & Tile: 856-834-5300 (Cherry Hill, NJ)
Tile Wholesalers of Newark:  973-589-2080 (Newark, NJ)

There is one online seller, who charges just over $5 a foot, plus shipping, but their reputation is not great.  Folks claim it is one man show NAND nothing is in stock, and others think he is selling factory seconds.  Who knows....I never used them.  You can do your own homework on them:  Value Floors Direct.

By the way...how old is the slab?  If it's older and settled, and no cracks, the chances of it cracking are slim.  A slab is cold in the winter no matter what, unless you heat it.  A layer of Ditra has a minimal minimal in warming the tile, so little you won't feel it.  Additionally, unless there are major pits, cracks or a huge slope difference, your mud is what you use to level.  Adding a self level over a fairly level floor is a wast of time and money.  It's a floor....not a lifetime commitment!  

Good luck and have fun and measure twice!
View Quote


Thanks for the info. This place was built in the 70's I believe.
Link Posted: 8/13/2014 5:50:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Just make sure your gun safes are where you want them first.  Rolling a heavy dolly over a built up low spot will crack tile.
Link Posted: 8/13/2014 1:09:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Pull up the carpet and pad and see what you have.  If it's not cracked now, it likely won't.  Big cracks, get some self leveler and Ditra.......no cracks, just a little out of level, use the mud and set the tile.  

Do not seal/waterproof that concrete unless you have a moisture problem.  To figure it out, tape a large square of heavy clear plastic down.  Give it 24 hours.  If it's wet on the bottom, seal it.  If not, it's not sealed now and it breathes...water up and water down.   Place a barrier between that movement and the water has to go somewhere else.  That "else" leads pressure and cracks.  It's asking for a problem.

I spent 10 years working at my grandfather tile business and doing floors with ceramic and porcelain on slabs.  Once you figure this out, the hardest part is the layout with unsure walls.....which if built in the 70's, you will have to figure out.  After that it's all downhill!

Link Posted: 8/14/2014 4:46:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Much appreciated guys!
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