 libertyguns9
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Joined: Apr 2007  AL, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2012 2:13:44 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 2:19:11 PM by libertyguns9]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I'm preparing to add 3 new circuits to my main panel. I have 3 spaces open for the circuits, however, I do not have 6 screw down terminals available on the neutral bus bars. I only have 4 screw down terminals available. I'm sure it's against code to put two wires under 1 screw down terminal, so I wasn't sure what to do. Surely this doesn't necessitate me breaking out to a subpanel? ETA: In case it needs explaining - 3 circuits = 6 wires for the neutral bar - 3 neutral and 3 grounds. The hot wires (black) will obviously go to the breaker. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 2:27:53 PM
[Last Edit: 6/22/2012 2:29:39 PM by learath]
Isn't there a separate ground bar?
ETA: The ground and neutral bars should be tied together, but I thought they were usually separate bars. They may not have to be. |
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blwngazkit
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Posted: 6/22/2012 2:38:21 PM
Not an electrician.
I wasn't aware you couldn't have more than a single wire per terminal; I've seen many wired this way... I've also seen bus bar extensions for sale. Again, not an electrician. |
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Bob243
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Posted: 6/22/2012 3:58:31 PM
I've seen many times where they have installed more than 1 wire under a screw, however this is wrong. Must be 1 wire per screw. As far as grounds and neutrals on the same bar. If this is the point where your service disconnect is, and the bonding screw is installed, than it is not a huge deal.(although keeping them separate makes for a neater job) . If this is a sub panel or your bonding takes place else ware ( like an outside service disconnect) Then all your grounds should have been going to a separate ground bar. Install a separate ground bar. Move a few existing ground over to the new ground bar. If you have space to put one, which there is probably another set of holes to mount a new one. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 4:03:49 PM
Originally Posted By libertyguns9:
Gents - I'm preparing to add 3 new circuits to my main panel. I have 3 spaces open for the circuits, however, I do not have 6 screw down terminals available on the neutral bus bars. I only have 4 screw down terminals available. I'm sure it's against code to put two wires under 1 screw down terminal, so I wasn't sure what to do. Surely this doesn't necessitate me breaking out to a subpanel? ETA: In case it needs explaining - 3 circuits = 6 wires for the neutral bar - 3 neutral and 3 grounds. The hot wires (black) will obviously go to the breaker. Take two wires and twist the ends together first and then put them under the screw I use to do this with the grounds all the time and never had a problem with the inspector |
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wildearp
Get off my lawn!
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Joined: Jun 2003 AZ, USA
 
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Posted: 6/22/2012 4:11:04 PM
Originally Posted By JosephTurrisi: Originally Posted By libertyguns9: Gents - I'm preparing to add 3 new circuits to my main panel. I have 3 spaces open for the circuits, however, I do not have 6 screw down terminals available on the neutral bus bars. I only have 4 screw down terminals available. I'm sure it's against code to put two wires under 1 screw down terminal, so I wasn't sure what to do. Surely this doesn't necessitate me breaking out to a subpanel? ETA: In case it needs explaining - 3 circuits = 6 wires for the neutral bar - 3 neutral and 3 grounds. The hot wires (black) will obviously go to the breaker. Take two wires and twist the ends together first and then put them under the screw I use to do this with the grounds all the time and never had a problem with the inspector I do this too, but an inspector has never seen my work.  Homey Depot sells an add-on bar for cheap, IIRC. |
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Posted: 6/22/2012 10:11:14 PM
Check the label inside you panel door, it will have a listing for you neutral bar. Some panels are rated for 2 wires under a screw, even 3 with some brands. If it is, it usually is 2 # 14's and 2 # 12's. As long as you have the 2 wires that are the same size under the screw you are good to go.
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fxntime
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Posted: 6/22/2012 10:17:05 PM
Originally Posted By BEAMEUP:
Check the label inside you panel door, it will have a listing for you neutral bar. Some panels are rated for 2 wires under a screw, even 3 with some brands. If it is, it usually is 2 # 14's and 2 # 12's. As long as you have the 2 wires that are the same size under the screw you are good to go. Yep, just so your breaker is sized correctly to the wiring. |
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brickeyee
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Posted: 6/23/2012 12:33:08 PM
Add another ground bar.
Move grounds from the shared neutral-ground bar to the new ground bar, freeing up holes for neutrals. The new ground bar just attaches to the panel box itself to pick up ground. Some bars are listed for two grounds in a single hole. NO bars are listed for multiple neutrals. |
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libertyguns9
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Joined: Apr 2007 AL, USA
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Posted: 6/24/2012 5:09:56 PM
Perfect! Thanks guys, will head to the HD or Lowe's today to check it out...I love ARFCOM
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Meta4
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Posted: 6/24/2012 9:19:37 PM
If you have the type of bar that is easily removed (pretty common on relatively modern boxes), you can just pull the existing bar and replace it with a larger one. They're only a couple bucks at Home Depot.
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Posted: 6/25/2012 11:09:03 PM
[Last Edit: 6/25/2012 11:24:48 PM by j3_]
Originally Posted By BEAMEUP:
Check the label inside you panel door, it will have a listing for you neutral bar. Some panels are rated for 2 wires under a screw, even 3 with some brands. If it is, it usually is 2 # 14's and 2 # 12's. As long as you have the 2 wires that are the same size under the screw you are good to go. The combination listing for conductors on panel terminals is only for the grounding conductor connections and not for the grounded conductor/neutral connections. Neutrals are1 per terminal in a panel board. Some larger lugs are listed for multiple wires the number will be in ( ) marked on the lug. Code reference is 408.41 in the 2008 NEC. The labeling in the panel boards seem to be confusing sometimes. No access to the 2011 with me so if it has changed someone post the reference please. |
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Cole2534
Lightweight is the right weight
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Posted: 6/28/2012 6:18:33 PM
I've learned a lot of electrical stuff from this place.
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