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rosseubanks666
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Posted: 10/31/2010 4:54:29 PM
So i'm in the process of designing a home. My design is primarily 2x6 construction for the outer walls, however i was thinking of maybe using 2x8 for a wall section that separates the garage from the kitchen and living room. This wall would sit on top of a 10" poured concrete basement wall and be on the gable end of the trusses. I know i'm going to run into several problems like insulation and a little bit of creative trim work but i think i can manage those. For the insulation i was going to use a radiant barrier/foam board and 6 1/2" Batt.

This wall shouldn't be carrying any load other than the gable truss.

You guys see any problems with this? My main objective is to deaden sound and have better insulation because i plan on using the garage as a wood shop also and don't plan on insulating the garage.
NoHarmNoFAL
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Posted: 10/31/2010 4:58:07 PM
Other than an unusually think door jam and the insulation issue you stated already I don't see where it would cause you a huge issue. I don't really see the point in it though, you would just be better off to use the 2x6's IMHO.
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Gamma762
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Posted: 10/31/2010 5:35:34 PM
For both sound and thermal insulation you'd be a lot better off to alternate 2x6s instead of using 2x8s.
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44Regular
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Posted: 10/31/2010 5:39:45 PM
[Last Edit: 10/31/2010 5:45:04 PM by 44Regular]
2x8 is overkill. To reduce sound, you need mass, especially for those low frequency noises from the garage. Additional layers of drywall on the 2x6 wall will make a huge difference. Next step is to isolate the extra layer of drywall on the garage side with either a separate wall, or adding special isolation furring on the wall and attaching the drywall to that framing. For a normal amount of garage noise, I think two layers of drywall on each side of a 2x6 wall plus sound insulation batts should be enough.

eta: The wall needs to extend well above the ceiling to prevent noise transfer through the ceiling, and you need a massive door too.

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rosseubanks666
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Posted: 10/31/2010 6:23:45 PM
Ok, so if i'm losing more R-Value on a 2x8 vs. a 2x6 that are spaced both 16 OC, would i be better off going with a foam product? Surely it does better through all frequency than batt insulation does right? My main use for the garage will be a wood shop, so things like router, table saw, planer, jointer would be running, most of which put off a pretty high frequency right? If i extended the wall above the ceiling i would just make that outer wall act as the gable truss up to the roof then right? I was planning on using room in attic trusses so i don't understand how noise would transfer up the wall and into that space would be... Would cross bracing every stud help out as well?

I def. would consider a double layer or drywall, however i would want to hang it horizontally, and stagger the seams. I like having the extra fire protection, thats a plus. Also why is the soundboard spec'd to run vertically?
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Posted: 10/31/2010 6:25:02 PM
[Last Edit: 10/31/2010 6:31:23 PM by ColtRifle]
We have a 2x6 wall dividing the garage from the house. 2x6 walls in the rest of the exterior walls too. The walls have R19 batts in them. The garage has drywall on the inside and OSB on the garage side. You can barely hear the wife's vehicle when she pulls in and the same for the garage door. I would just use the 2x6. Also, you can consider using the more expensive sound absorbing drywall. It really works well and with the insulation, it would work pretty good IMO.

I would insulate the entire garage. You'll end up wishing you did.
Gamma762
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Posted: 10/31/2010 6:30:45 PM
If you do 2x6 headers, alternate 2x4s for the studs. Way easier than "isolation furring". Drywall on both sides, decoupled and with fiberglass in between will give you a lot of sound attenuation.
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rosseubanks666
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Posted: 10/31/2010 7:02:41 PM
Ok to add to this craziness I was also planning on building all the wall sections indoors a few hundred feet offsite, then transporting them with the OSB attached. All the frame openings, holes for wiring, wire boxes, would be installed before moving, so once onsite everything would go up quickly. Basically i'm going to try to get it under roof as quick as possible and not wanting to hire a framing crew, that way the trusses and roof can also be set fast.

I think i'll go 2x6, the pros to 2x8 aren't adding up for me, for headers i was thinking lvl all around, since i will be doing the majority of the framing by myself, ease of man hours is dependent on what i can do with the little time i have to do it.
Orion_Shall_Rise
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Posted: 10/31/2010 8:23:07 PM
shouldnt take that long to frame... completed sheathed sections are gonna be heavyyy
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 10/31/2010 11:03:09 PM
Do you have a crane?

SuperSixOne
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Posted: 11/1/2010 12:23:17 AM

Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
Do you have a crane?


x2

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rosseubanks666
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Posted: 11/1/2010 10:01:18 PM
I was thinking a large all terrain forklift, something that i could run, i have experience on large hydraulic excavators, mini excavators and bobcats, so it shouldn't be that far out of my skill set. The longest wall section shouldn't exceed about 16ft. So i'm not thinking it'll come close to the load cap of the forklift.
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 11/1/2010 11:17:43 PM
I don't think you will be saving much time doing it this way.
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Posted: 11/2/2010 1:46:45 PM
better results with insulation and multiple layers of gyp. see UL rating for sound wall. there are sections out there.
Orion_Shall_Rise
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Posted: 11/2/2010 10:43:56 PM
Originally Posted By CTbuilder1:
I don't think you will be saving much time doing it this way.


Probable lose time.

You could precut the wood maybe, but wall layout is really fast you should be able to have it up in a day.
hopball3
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Posted: 11/3/2010 2:43:07 AM
[Last Edit: 11/3/2010 2:43:17 AM by hopball3]
How are you going to be able to move the walls with the forklift? You planning to lift them from the bottom and move them or attach via rigging from over the top of the wall?

I would use a double layer of drywall with sound caulking at the bottom and top of wall. There are a couple of ways to do the sound caulking. 1)caulk under the bottom track then set the wall 2) run a bead at the bottom of the wall prior to the drywall then set the drywall into it 3) leave a gap while drywalling and go back after and fill with caulking.

I think if you go with a spray in foam, double layer of drywall, and sound caulking you wont have an issue.
rosseubanks666
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Posted: 11/3/2010 2:13:34 PM
As far as moving sections i've got a flatbed truck to move them. The reason i want to build them off site is because basically myself and my father are going to be doing ALL of the framing, will prob need help setting the trusses, but the wall sections are probably going to be completed before the foundation is poured. I've got a 40x60 heated shop that they're going to be constructed in. I work full time and work a lot of overtime so the wall sections are going to be completed whenever a have a few free hours. I'm thinking the only things i will contract out on this house is the drywall finishing, basement/foundation, and flat work. HVAC is prob going to be handled by my wife's company.

I plan in using the flatbed and forklift for the sections, i'll pull up to the foundation and slide the base of the wall on to the subfloor and then upright the wall with the forklift. I'll keep the forklift on site to do the roof work and to act as a platform to side the gables and higher areas.

All the interior wall will be completed once the house is dried in. designed with free span truss for this reason.
CTbuilder1
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Posted: 11/3/2010 4:46:43 PM
Originally Posted By rosseubanks666:
As far as moving sections i've got a flatbed truck to move them. The reason i want to build them off site is because basically myself and my father are going to be doing ALL of the framing, will prob need help setting the trusses, but the wall sections are probably going to be completed before the foundation is poured. I've got a 40x60 heated shop that they're going to be constructed in. I work full time and work a lot of overtime so the wall sections are going to be completed whenever a have a few free hours. I'm thinking the only things i will contract out on this house is the drywall finishing, basement/foundation, and flat work. HVAC is prob going to be handled by my wife's company.

I plan in using the flatbed and forklift for the sections, i'll pull up to the foundation and slide the base of the wall on to the subfloor and then upright the wall with the forklift. I'll keep the forklift on site to do the roof work and to act as a platform to side the gables and higher areas.

All the interior wall will be completed once the house is dried in. designed with free span truss for this reason.


Better hope that foundation comes out perfect.
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Posted: 11/3/2010 8:41:52 PM
If you're doing it this way because of limited time, in the long run it's going to end up taking much longer.
Plus, how many times are you planing on moving the materials.

If you put on the electric boxes before you "slide" the pre-fab wall on the deck I bet you're going to break them all off and be pissed. Anyhow, there's no real advantage to tapping on boxes and drilling holes while everything is on the floor.

Just sayin, if you are going to make the time for this and you're time is limited, budget it well. I wouldn't turn a 1 step plan into a 3-4 step.


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rosseubanks666
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Posted: 11/4/2010 5:27:54 PM
Well it all looks good on paper when you first think it up... right? I just like the fact that i can stock pile and build wall sections at my convenience, in a climate controlled environment. I already have about 600 sq foot of various floor material, a fireplace, and some fixtures that i've started to gather or found for a good price at an auction. Time is really my biggest concern. My plan is to start this "project" the spring of 2012, i have the land, septic permits, driveway, and plot plan done. Right now i'm between to house plans that i've drawn, the one with the living room next to the garage is the one my wife likes, and another with the garage in a different place is the one i like.

As far as taking a long time i figure it will take me no less than 1 1/2 years from time of excavation to completion. I'll try and post a floor plan.

Thanks for all the advice though! My parents basically did the same thing i am, so i've seen a lot of ups and downs to building your own house.
Handydave
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Posted: 11/4/2010 6:35:15 PM
Originally Posted By rosseubanks666:
Well it all looks good on paper when you first think it up... right? I just like the fact that i can stock pile and build wall sections at my convenience, in a climate controlled environment. I already have about 600 sq foot of various floor material, a fireplace, and some fixtures that i've started to gather or found for a good price at an auction. Time is really my biggest concern. My plan is to start this "project" the spring of 2012, i have the land, septic permits, driveway, and plot plan done. Right now i'm between to house plans that i've drawn, the one with the living room next to the garage is the one my wife likes, and another with the garage in a different place is the one i like.

As far as taking a long time i figure it will take me no less than 1 1/2 years from time of excavation to completion. I'll try and post a floor plan.

Thanks for all the advice though! My parents basically did the same thing i am, so i've seen a lot of ups and downs to building your own house.


Did your parents go the pre-fab route like you are thinking?
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m193
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Posted: 11/4/2010 6:44:44 PM
No problem with insulation. Use blown cellulose, just like in the attic. They add an adhesive to it to make it stick in the wall then it is then screeded and the drywall is installed. It's actually better than fiberglass batts, because it fills all of the voids behind wires.

rosseubanks666
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Posted: 11/5/2010 6:30:36 PM
Originally Posted By Handydave:
Originally Posted By rosseubanks666:
Well it all looks good on paper when you first think it up... right? I just like the fact that i can stock pile and build wall sections at my convenience, in a climate controlled environment. I already have about 600 sq foot of various floor material, a fireplace, and some fixtures that i've started to gather or found for a good price at an auction. Time is really my biggest concern. My plan is to start this "project" the spring of 2012, i have the land, septic permits, driveway, and plot plan done. Right now i'm between to house plans that i've drawn, the one with the living room next to the garage is the one my wife likes, and another with the garage in a different place is the one i like.

As far as taking a long time i figure it will take me no less than 1 1/2 years from time of excavation to completion. I'll try and post a floor plan.

Thanks for all the advice though! My parents basically did the same thing i am, so i've seen a lot of ups and downs to building your own house.


Did your parents go the pre-fab route like you are thinking?


You know i didn't even think of the blown in cellulose. Good idea! Thanks.

Ya my parents have a timber frame, however their pre-fab wall sections were built off site and have something like an R38 rating due to the foam core, and being massively thick. They were installed by crane after the timber frame went up. Why i didn't like the pre-fab foam was it was really difficult to wire, and it would be nearly impossible to rewire or add anything to the wall without taking a major section of it out. The pre-fabs locked together and are like 6" + deep and when they settled a few years back there were drywall cracks everywhere. It's very difficult to repair them at 20' high and they pitch at like 10/12. Not fun. I would never go with a cathedral ceiling, too much energy loss.
rosseubanks666
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:25:38 PM
Here's a pic of the floor plan i drew, i like it better, the wife disagrees. Made the garage extra large.

Floor Plan
RichR
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Posted: 11/6/2010 3:53:22 AM
you should read up a bit more on construction methods. Your idea to pre-build wall segments could be highly problematic if you aren't fully aware of how each section will fit and as already mentioned, if your foundation isn't perfect. You'll also have far more hassle moving the pre-fab sections than you will simple erecting a wall built flat on the slab. If they aren't thoroughly braced or even screwed, they'll easily pull / torque apart with overhandling. Not a problem when built on the slab and tilted up into place.

If you want speed, get a pair of nailguns and make some ledger boards / spacers so you can space the studs as fast as you can nail them down and erect them. You really ought to be able to raise your perimeter / bearing walls in a single day. It really isn't difficult work, especially once you get going.
You could lay out your sill plates in advance and pre-drill them for your j-bolts. It'll make it very easy to place the walls when you erect them.
Get the two sides of a corner set, connected and bolted down and you can then work your way all around the perimeter.
Do it with two crews of two and one pair can be nailing the next wall together while the preceding pair is completing the install of the previous section, tying it in with the second top plate.

I've done a lot of remodeling work, torn into and repaired, upgraded, re-windowed a lot of walls. Moved a few too. I'd love the opportunity to build a house from scratch and do it right. Getting to old and beat up and broke to think I'll ever get such an opportunity.

I did a pre-fab stunt just once, putting in an arched window on an old house in the mountains. I (like you) was trying to borrow time where I could. So I took a great many measurements and pictures and gave it my best shot. I left the old sill plate in place and essentially gutted the wall framing in place. I left the studs / cripple studs an inch-ish too long and clamped the wall section up in place while I marked the studs for length to cut. Then toe-nailed them in place. I got lucky and got it done. Lucky except for the thunder / hailstorm that of course hit that night while I had nothing but a tarp in the window opening.




Orion_Shall_Rise
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Posted: 11/6/2010 10:28:06 AM
about the plan, nice rectangular houses without sections jutting out are simplest, much simpler roofline etc
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