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theinvisibleheart
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:41:37 PM
UN Small Arms Treaty will bypass Second Amendment

Small Arms Treaty
Claim: A U.N. small arms treaty signed by the U.S. provides a "legal way around the 2nd Amendment."

FALSE

Example: [Collected via e-mail, April 2010]

While you were watching the oil spill, the New York failed terrorist bombing and other critical crises, Hillary Clinton signed the small arms treaty with the UN.

OBAMA FINDS LEGAL WAY AROUND THE 2ND AMENDMENT AND USES IT. IF THIS PASSES, THERE COULD BE WAR
....
....
Origins: Although the United Nations has been studying the feasibility of effecting an Arms Trade Treaty (ATT), the above-referenced piece of scarelore about the United States' having already entered into a such a treaty — one which supposedly provides a "legal way around the 2nd Amendment" and will result in a "complete ban on all weapons for US citizens" — is erroneous in all its particulars.

The aim of a potential U.N. arms treaty is to combat the illicit international trade of small arms by "tightening regulation of, and setting international standards for, the import, export and transfer of conventional weapons" in order to "close gaps in existing regional and national arms export control systems that allow weapons to pass onto the illicit market."

Even if such a treaty came to pass, U.S. rights and laws regarding the sale and ownership of small arms would still apply within the United States.

The President of the United States cannot enact a "complete ban on all weapons for US citizens through the signing of international treaties with foreign nations." The right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed in the Constitution of the United States, and in the 1957 case Reid v. Covert, the U.S. Supreme Court established that the Constitution supersedes international treaties ratified by the U.S. Senate.

There is no "legal way around the 2nd Amendment" other than a further amendment to the Constitution that repeals or alters it, or a Supreme Court decision that radically reinterprets how the 2nd Amendment is to be applied.
AKGary
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:44:22 PM
Oh, well if it's on SNOPES (owned in part by George Soros) then it must be true.

Watch this whole video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnT4pg5LXc

It's not too long. Under 5 minutes. Dick Morris explains WHY (Because of the "Vienna Convention") this treaty WILL become law of the land in spite of the fact that the Senate won't ratify it.
SeviceXDShooter
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Posted: 7/19/2012 12:47:47 PM
Originally Posted By AKGary:
Oh, well if it's on SNOPES (owned in part by George Soros) then it must be true.

Watch this whole video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnT4pg5LXc

It's not too long. Under 5 minutes. Dick Morris explains WHY (Because of the "Vienna Convention") this treaty WILL become law of the land in spite of the fact that the Senate won't ratify it.


LOL!!!! I get all my facts from snopes because I'm too lazy to track stuff down man.. like wmd's man .. they aint no wmd's cause someone told me that

theinvisibleheart
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Posted: 7/19/2012 1:00:50 PM
read old issues of Shotgun News going back for years.

Same old crap. UN is coming to take your 2A rights away...what they don't tell is that international law cannot precede US law unless an existing law/amendment is modified or new law/amendment passed.

If you don't like snopes.com or factcheck.org, check how laws are passed and how they work.

Even pro-2A Bush supported UN small arms treaty but didn't press to pass it because of disinformation passed on by folks who profit from disinforming the public.

Originally Posted By AKGary:
Oh, well if it's on SNOPES (owned in part by George Soros) then it must be true.

Watch this whole video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnT4pg5LXc

It's not too long. Under 5 minutes. Dick Morris explains WHY (Because of the "Vienna Convention") this treaty WILL become law of the land in spite of the fact that the Senate won't ratify it.


learath
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Posted: 7/19/2012 1:07:33 PM
[Last Edit: 7/19/2012 1:15:48 PM by learath]
Originally Posted By theinvisibleheart:
read old issues of Shotgun News going back for years.

Same old crap. UN is coming to take your 2A rights away...what they don't tell is that international law cannot precede US law unless an existing law/amendment is modified or new law/amendment passed.

If you don't like snopes.com or factcheck.org, check how laws are passed and how they work.

Even pro-2A Bush supported UN small arms treaty but didn't press to pass it because of disinformation passed on by folks who profit from disinforming the public.

Originally Posted By AKGary:
Oh, well if it's on SNOPES (owned in part by George Soros) then it must be true.

Watch this whole video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugnT4pg5LXc

It's not too long. Under 5 minutes. Dick Morris explains WHY (Because of the "Vienna Convention") this treaty WILL become law of the land in spite of the fact that the Senate won't ratify it.



Please read up on
1. the Huges amendment
2. the legality of taxing a constitutional right
3. the legality of refusing to accept a tax payment to cause a effective ban

ETA: also, check on NYC's respect for the GCA
theinvisibleheart
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Posted: 7/19/2012 1:31:04 PM
Originally Posted By learath:
Please read up on
1. the Huges amendment
2. the legality of taxing a constitutional right
3. the legality of refusing to accept a tax payment to cause a effective ban

ETA: also, check on NYC's respect for the GCA


I've actually attended conferences and spent years, if not decades, reading those stuff.

If you want to campaign for the platform that taxation is illegal or unconstitutional, create a platform for tax-is-illegal campaign and/or pass a new no tax amendment.

It's not practical for the simple fact that modern centralized state cannot exist without taxation. As a minimum, taxation rate of about 20-30%, if not more. Actually, even relatively decentralized countries like Switzerland need a central government and tax to survive.

Central problem facing Euro/EU is that you cannot have a long term SUCCESSFUL economic union w/o political union as well.

In fact, if you check early history of US during the time of Founding, US was almost destroyed by the inability of the central government to raise funds during early years.

If both Switzerland and US was a loose confederation of independent states(weak political cohesion) and economic union, problem would arise when economically weak/underdeveloped sector need help. E.g., Texas during S&L crisis of 1980s.



SeviceXDShooter
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Posted: 7/19/2012 1:39:02 PM
I've actually attended conferences and spent years, if not decades, reading those stuff.

You're not sure if it's been merely "years" or decades?
Sounds kinda fishy to me..

Let's see you're certificates for being so either well (years) or Highly (decades) informed?
Were you able to get some medals or at least a tee-shirt for attending so many conferences?
Wear them proudly because how else would anyone know you're so smart and well informed??
theinvisibleheart
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Posted: 7/19/2012 1:43:03 PM
I don't do things to get public accolade or recognition, LOL.

I do it because I think it's right or because I enjoy it.

I almost never wear anything with label on it or any kind of insignia/mark/decoration/etc. as a general rule.

I've also owned/read/attended seminars/etc. books on topics such as Creationism, Intelligent Design, self-regulating nature of free market, justification of child labor, global-warming-is-a-fraud, etc.

Originally Posted By SeviceXDShooter:
I've actually attended conferences and spent years, if not decades, reading those stuff.

You're not sure if it's been merely "years" or decades?
Sounds kinda fishy to me..

Let's see you're certificates for being so either well (years) or Highly (decades) informed?
Were you able to get some medals or at least a tee-shirt for attending so many conferences?
Wear them proudly because how else would anyone know you're so smart and well informed??


learath
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Posted: 7/19/2012 2:26:43 PM
Originally Posted By theinvisibleheart:
Originally Posted By learath:
Please read up on
1. the Huges amendment
2. the legality of taxing a constitutional right
3. the legality of refusing to accept a tax payment to cause a effective ban

ETA: also, check on NYC's respect for the GCA


I've actually attended conferences and spent years, if not decades, reading those stuff.

If you want to campaign for the platform that taxation is illegal or unconstitutional, create a platform for tax-is-illegal campaign and/or pass a new no tax amendment.

It's not practical for the simple fact that modern centralized state cannot exist without taxation. As a minimum, taxation rate of about 20-30%, if not more. Actually, even relatively decentralized countries like Switzerland need a central government and tax to survive.

Central problem facing Euro/EU is that you cannot have a long term SUCCESSFUL economic union w/o political union as well.

In fact, if you check early history of US during the time of Founding, US was almost destroyed by the inability of the central government to raise funds during early years.

If both Switzerland and US was a loose confederation of independent states(weak political cohesion) and economic union, problem would arise when economically weak/underdeveloped sector need help. E.g., Texas during S&L crisis of 1980s.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Tax-Revenues-As-GDP-Percentage-%2875-05%29.JPG/800px-Tax-Revenues-As-GDP-Percentage-%2875-05%29.JPG


You apparently missed my point. The NFA is a tax on a constitutional right, probably not kosher. The Huges Amendment is a refusal to collect a tax, which amounts to a ban, which is not kosher. NYC refuses to honor the GCA, which is not kosher.

These and thousands more examples make me wonder why you, or anyone, think legality matters.
theinvisibleheart
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Posted: 7/20/2012 1:21:17 PM
NFA tax: that stems from 1930s NFA Act.

Depending on how you interpret 2A, it can be legal or illegal(I happen to think it's illegal BTW).

For example, militia and national military in the form that Founders envisioned no longer exists, since pre-WWII US military and post-WWII US military(permanent, huge peace time forces, whether there is war or not) are completely different entities.

Taxation issue: whether it's legal or not, I don't think decentralized state is viable(that is what state will look like w/o taxation). Even Switzerland with relatively weak central government and military forces closer to what our Founders envisioned collect 20%-30% of GDP in taxes.

NYC attack on 2A: this depends on interpretation of 2A.



Originally Posted By learath:
You apparently missed my point. The NFA is a tax on a constitutional right, probably not kosher. The Huges Amendment is a refusal to collect a tax, which amounts to a ban, which is not kosher. NYC refuses to honor the GCA, which is not kosher.

These and thousands more examples make me wonder why you, or anyone, think legality matters.


Col-W
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Posted: 7/20/2012 8:56:34 PM
Originally Posted By learath:
These and thousands more examples make me wonder why you, or anyone, think legality matters.


That's the issue right there, it really doesn't matter today because we have men without honor; hence, they look for ways to cloak their lawlessness under the color of law whether it actually is or not, and then do what they want anyway.

Obamacare proved that this administration knows no absurdity that it will not extend to in order to grasp at the straws it desires to color itself with presumptive authority to whatever it wants.

Legality does not matter to tyrants, only a reasonable appearance of non-arbitrariness, then they do whatever they want and demand you prove otherwise. Dangerous days we live in.
Tiberius
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Posted: 7/21/2012 12:23:14 AM
Originally Posted By learath:
These and thousands more examples make me wonder why you, or anyone, think legality matters.


That's because it doesn't, anymore. The SCOTUS blessed the concept that the Federag Government is not obliged to enforce it's own laws. Then of course, there is the Obamacare decision where the SCOTUS admitted the law was Unconstitutional then declared it Constitutional anyway. We now live in a Banana Republic where the law is what the State says it is. Based on that, we cannot rely on Reid v Covert, or any of the precedents and laws to protect us.
RockinGlock
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:04:00 PM
So Obama signing this treaty on July 27th is a repubilcan scare tactic?
resteva
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:10:00 PM
So sadly true!

Originally Posted By Col-W:
Originally Posted By learath:
These and thousands more examples make me wonder why you, or anyone, think legality matters.


That's the issue right there, it really doesn't matter today because we have men without honor; hence, they look for ways to cloak their lawlessness under the color of law whether it actually is or not, and then do what they want anyway.

Obamacare proved that this administration knows no absurdity that it will not extend to in order to grasp at the straws it desires to color itself with presumptive authority to whatever it wants.

Legality does not matter to tyrants, only a reasonable appearance of non-arbitrariness, then they do whatever they want and demand you prove otherwise. Dangerous days we live in.


RockinGlock
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:11:02 PM
So is this right, what Dick talks about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0Qm-mShNSg
Isenhelm
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Posted: 7/23/2012 10:26:53 PM
It is either nefarious or toothless, so either way I do not support it.

Fuck the UN!


: Veritas Odium Parit : Meditate on Death : Die Free : "Shall not be infringed"