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Posted: 5/27/2016 1:45:53 AM EDT
I'm currently using a soundbar, a yamaha ysp2200, but want something better. Any A/V guys who can help? I know very little about this stuff...

I was thinking of piecing together my own HT with these basic requirements; at least 5.1 audio, 4 or more HDMI inputs, and able to stream audio from my network.

I checked out the local Fry's just to see what receivers they have set up, and a sales guy recommended the Onkyo HT-S7700. He said it was a better deal than buying the components seperately and it already has dolby atmos, hdcp 2.2, etc... stuff that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. It sounded really nice, and easily blows away any soundbar I've heard, and it was $800 in the store.

I also checked out stuff on amazon, and this Marantz 1506 caught my attention, I like that its compact and pretty much has all I want.

And a set of Energy 5.1 or Harmon Kardon 5.1 speakers that would go with it.

Either of these choices end up being close in price, I'm not looking to spend more than 1k..., it will mostly be for movies, with music second, dish and gaming last. Any suggestions, advice?
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 1:54:06 AM EDT
[#1]
Onkyo is solid "bang for your buck" gear.  They make excellent HT receivers.

Speakers are extremely subjective.  You're in CA, so are you near a Fry's?  Check out a bunch of speakers in their soundroom.  Warning:  The vultures will try to upsell and confuse you endlessly with buzz words.  Ignore them, for the most part.  Judge the sound only by your opinion and nothing else.

Since it's a HT, you want some bass.  All-in-one HT systems have sissy bass, period.  Buy a sub seperately.  You don't need to audition a sub like you do the speakers.  Do some research online and buy something that HT nerds says shake the walls, as your budget allows.

Do not buy expensive speaker wire.  Buy lamp cord.  I'm being serious.  That or monoprice.

Link Posted: 5/27/2016 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for the advice! After checking out some speakers and subs I think I'll end up increasing my budget and skip the speaker/sub kits.

I'm considering the Polk psw505 sub, has good reviews and has more boom than I'll ever use (maybe.) it's rated for 300 watts continuous, would that be too much for a marantz 50watt receiver?

I also like the polk Tsi400 speakers, I'll probably pair with a cs10 center and  tsi100 bookshelf speakers.

I read in a lot of reviews that people use 16 gauge wire, Amazon has 100ft spool for $11. Is 16 gauge like the standard?
Link Posted: 5/27/2016 10:19:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Just to make sure you understand, the Polk sub has its own amplifier built in.  It will use the non-amplified sub outs on the Marantz and then amp it on its own.  

And no, it will not be too much.  And, it has its own volume if it's too much bass.  Some movies I like to shake the walls and others I turn it to normal levels.  

The Polk speakers you are looking at are listed as 20-200W, and your amp is 50W.  I think I'd want to give them at least 100W to avoid clipping at higher volumes.  Clipping is bad.  I'd either get a higher rated receiver or more efficient speakers (efficiency is rated as decibels at 1 watt at 1 meter, with higher being better).  Others will probably say Marantz is conservatively rating their amp at 50W and it is fine, but I'd want more with those speakers.

eta:  16g lamp cord is ideal for normal setups.  You'd only want 14g if your speaker wires were like 100 feet long each or so.
Link Posted: 5/29/2016 7:18:07 AM EDT
[#4]
I can not say enough good things about Onkyo, i have a HT-R990 7.1 with THX for about 4 years
and the sound stopped all of a sudden, i went on line to the Onkyo site and just typed in my serial No.
and explained what happened and before i knew it i had a box delivered at my front door with all the
foam and even the tape to seal the box, then FedEx picked it up and a week later i had it back, i
couldn't ask for a better customer service... Plus it has great sound...
Link Posted: 5/30/2016 11:21:50 PM EDT
[#5]
You can save a pretty good chunk of change or get a heck of a lot more receiver for your money if your willing to go Refurbished.
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

I have had a Onkyo TX-NR808 for the last 4 years. I talked my dad in to a RZ-900 a couple months ago. I use a Carver A-753x 250w x 3 channel amp to run my front 3. I am running a Polk Audio RTi A7's and a CSI A4 center along with FXi A4 surrounds.
Link Posted: 5/30/2016 11:31:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Here is Polk's factory refurbished ebay store. I got my CSi A4 from there and it showed up looking bran new. Just make sure what ever speakers you decide to go with you run the same series all around. That way you don't get change in voice tones as the sound moves from one speaker to another.

http://stores.ebay.com/Polk-Audio-Direct
Link Posted: 6/1/2016 5:36:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for the advice! After checking out some speakers and subs I think I'll end up increasing my budget and skip the speaker/sub kits.

I'm considering the Polk psw505 sub, has good reviews and has more boom than I'll ever use (maybe.) it's rated for 300 watts continuous, would that be too much for a marantz 50watt receiver?

I also like the polk Tsi400 speakers, I'll probably pair with a cs10 center and  tsi100 bookshelf speakers.

I read in a lot of reviews that people use 16 gauge wire, Amazon has 100ft spool for $11. Is 16 gauge like the standard?
View Quote
You buy a sub based on your goals (do you want to feel like a T-Rex is running after you?) and the size of your room.  If you have an open floor plan then you have to include all adjoining rooms.

That Polk is the low end of subs.  Internet direct will get you more boom for you buck.  Hsu Research has the lowest prices and this is a good start - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html.  There are hundreds of options between Hsu and the Deep Sea Sound 24" Mariana sub - http://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sr-24-subwoofer.  Yes, that is a 24" driver.
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 12:43:18 AM EDT
[#9]
I appreciate all the help! Justa_TXguy, I had to google clipping, that does indeed sound very bad! I'll definitely be going with a 100w or greater receiver.

I really like the marantz style, its clean and looks smooth. I'm thinking of bumping up to the SR5010 7.2 receiver. Just curious though, if I only use 5 channels, will the utilized channels receive the surplus wattage, or is each channel limited to the stated output? I don't plan on doing a full 7 speaker setup.

And thanks for those links jbooker82!
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 12:54:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You buy a sub based on your goals (do you want to feel like a T-Rex is running after you?) and the size of your room.  If you have an open floor plan then you have to include all adjoining rooms.

That Polk is the low end of subs.  Internet direct will get you more boom for you buck.  Hsu Research has the lowest prices and this is a good start - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html.  There are hundreds of options between Hsu and the Deep Sea Sound 24" Mariana sub - http://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sr-24-subwoofer.  Yes, that is a 24" driver.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the advice! After checking out some speakers and subs I think I'll end up increasing my budget and skip the speaker/sub kits.

I'm considering the Polk psw505 sub, has good reviews and has more boom than I'll ever use (maybe.) it's rated for 300 watts continuous, would that be too much for a marantz 50watt receiver?

I also like the polk Tsi400 speakers, I'll probably pair with a cs10 center and  tsi100 bookshelf speakers.

I read in a lot of reviews that people use 16 gauge wire, Amazon has 100ft spool for $11. Is 16 gauge like the standard?
You buy a sub based on your goals (do you want to feel like a T-Rex is running after you?) and the size of your room.  If you have an open floor plan then you have to include all adjoining rooms.

That Polk is the low end of subs.  Internet direct will get you more boom for you buck.  Hsu Research has the lowest prices and this is a good start - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html.  There are hundreds of options between Hsu and the Deep Sea Sound 24" Mariana sub - http://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sr-24-subwoofer.  Yes, that is a 24" driver.


I'm not sure on a sub anymore. After doing some more searching and checking out speakers in person, I'm thinking I might go with larger speakers that have a sub built in, and try that out for awhile. I can add a sub later if I feel its lacking.

The sub I'm accustomed to right now is a passive one that came with the sound bar and it has always sucked. I have to keep it very low, otherwise the slightest boomy scene in a movie causes it to sound like crap.


Link Posted: 6/3/2016 2:16:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I appreciate all the help! Justa_TXguy, I had to google clipping, that does indeed sound very bad! I'll definitely be going with a 100w or greater receiver.

I really like the marantz style, its clean and looks smooth. I'm thinking of bumping up to the SR5010 7.2 receiver. Just curious though, if I only use 5 channels, will the utilized channels receive the surplus wattage, or is each channel limited to the stated output? I don't plan on doing a full 7 speaker setup.

And thanks for those links jbooker82!
View Quote
Each channel is limited by the circuit and the ratings of the transistors used.  But the weak spot is usually the power supply.  That Marantz receiver is rated at "100 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven" (directly from the documentation).  If you run it in 5 channel mode, then the power supply can't provide enough current to allow all 5 channels to produce 100w.  You may only get 80w per channel.  If you run all 7 channels you may only get 70w per channel.

While that sounds bad, the ratings were taken by using pink noise (a sound that covers 20hz to 20,000hz with each frequency at the same level) as a signal instead of a movie or music.  Pink noise is the most difficult signal to reproduce.  Music has highs and lows.  Movies really only require 2 to 3 watts of power for average listening.  That is until someone shoots a gun.  That is a peak and will require 100 times the power for a split second.

Why did I explain all of this difficult to understand wattage crap?  To let you know that wattage is the least important aspect of a receiver or any system.  Marketing departments and uninformed users get hung up on that rating.  Does the receiver have all the inputs you need?  Does it have the sound formats you want?  Dolby Digital?  DTS?  Dolby Atmos?  DTS-X?  Does it have auto calibration (extremely important)? If that is the case then get it and ignore the wattage.

What do you want to look at?  Speaker efficiency.  A speaker that is rated at 82db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter is not very efficient.  If you sit 4 meters from the speaker, it will take approximately 40watts of power to hit 90db at your listening position.  And if you have a 100db peak like an explosion then you will need 400w to reach that sound level.  If you get a speaker rated at 92db, then you need 2 watts of power to hit 90 at your listening position and only 200w to reach a 100db peak.

What I did - I built the Dayton III speaker from these plans.  They are not very efficient but they sound great.  My Pioneer receiver is an older model with the Pioneer Elite power output stage.  Even though it doesn't state that it will drive a 4 ohm load, others used it with 4 ohm speakers without issue.  With the DIII's being both 4 ohm and not very efficient, when there were loud peaks like gunshots the output section would draw too much current from the power supply which would drop the voltage and go into protection mode (shut off).  I resolved it by using external amps to power my front 3 speakers.  I bought a pair of Crown XLS 1000 amps.  Yes, they are pro amps.  But they work great with home gear.  They put out a max of 375w into 4 ohms.  One amp runs the left and right speaker.  The other amp uses 1 channel to run the center channel.  The receiver powers my surround speakers.
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 2:18:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I'm not sure on a sub anymore. After doing some more searching and checking out speakers in person, I'm thinking I might go with larger speakers that have a sub built in, and try that out for awhile. I can add a sub later if I feel its lacking.

The sub I'm accustomed to right now is a passive one that came with the sound bar and it has always sucked. I have to keep it very low, otherwise the slightest boomy scene in a movie causes it to sound like crap.


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the advice! After checking out some speakers and subs I think I'll end up increasing my budget and skip the speaker/sub kits.

I'm considering the Polk psw505 sub, has good reviews and has more boom than I'll ever use (maybe.) it's rated for 300 watts continuous, would that be too much for a marantz 50watt receiver?

I also like the polk Tsi400 speakers, I'll probably pair with a cs10 center and  tsi100 bookshelf speakers.

I read in a lot of reviews that people use 16 gauge wire, Amazon has 100ft spool for $11. Is 16 gauge like the standard?
You buy a sub based on your goals (do you want to feel like a T-Rex is running after you?) and the size of your room.  If you have an open floor plan then you have to include all adjoining rooms.

That Polk is the low end of subs.  Internet direct will get you more boom for you buck.  Hsu Research has the lowest prices and this is a good start - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html.  There are hundreds of options between Hsu and the Deep Sea Sound 24" Mariana sub - http://www.deepseasound.com/products/mariana-24sr-24-subwoofer.  Yes, that is a 24" driver.


I'm not sure on a sub anymore. After doing some more searching and checking out speakers in person, I'm thinking I might go with larger speakers that have a sub built in, and try that out for awhile. I can add a sub later if I feel its lacking.

The sub I'm accustomed to right now is a passive one that came with the sound bar and it has always sucked. I have to keep it very low, otherwise the slightest boomy scene in a movie causes it to sound like crap.


You don't want to mix sub types unless you are willing to spend the time integrating all of them.  That requires things like external crossovers with delay and a parametric equalizer.  If you are going to stick with this at the hobby level instead of moving up to enthusiast then go with the biggest sub you can afford.  Something from Hsu Research, Reaction Audio, Powersound Audio or SVS Audio.
Link Posted: 6/3/2016 9:55:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Each channel is limited by the circuit and the ratings of the transistors used.  But the weak spot is usually the power supply.  That Marantz receiver is rated at "100 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven" (directly from the documentation).  If you run it in 5 channel mode, then the power supply can't provide enough current to allow all 5 channels to produce 100w.  You may only get 80w per channel.  If you run all 7 channels you may only get 70w per channel.

While that sounds bad, the ratings were taken by using pink noise (a sound that covers 20hz to 20,000hz with each frequency at the same level) as a signal instead of a movie or music.  Pink noise is the most difficult signal to reproduce.  Music has highs and lows.  Movies really only require 2 to 3 watts of power for average listening.  That is until someone shoots a gun.  That is a peak and will require 100 times the power for a split second.

Why did I explain all of this difficult to understand wattage crap?  To let you know that wattage is the least important aspect of a receiver or any system.  Marketing departments and uninformed users get hung up on that rating.  Does the receiver have all the inputs you need?  Does it have the sound formats you want?  Dolby Digital?  DTS?  Dolby Atmos?  DTS-X?  Does it have auto calibration (extremely important)? If that is the case then get it and ignore the wattage.

What do you want to look at?  Speaker efficiency.  A speaker that is rated at 82db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter is not very efficient.  If you sit 4 meters from the speaker, it will take approximately 40watts of power to hit 90db at your listening position.  And if you have a 100db peak like an explosion then you will need 400w to reach that sound level.  If you get a speaker rated at 92db, then you need 2 watts of power to hit 90 at your listening position and only 200w to reach a 100db peak.

What I did - I built the Dayton III speaker from these plans.  They are not very efficient but they sound great.  My Pioneer receiver is an older model with the Pioneer Elite power output stage.  Even though it doesn't state that it will drive a 4 ohm load, others used it with 4 ohm speakers without issue.  With the DIII's being both 4 ohm and not very efficient, when there were loud peaks like gunshots the output section would draw too much current from the power supply which would drop the voltage and go into protection mode (shut off).  I resolved it by using external amps to power my front 3 speakers.  I bought a pair of Crown XLS 1000 amps.  Yes, they are pro amps.  But they work great with home gear.  They put out a max of 375w into 4 ohms.  One amp runs the left and right speaker.  The other amp uses 1 channel to run the center channel.  The receiver powers my surround speakers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I appreciate all the help! Justa_TXguy, I had to google clipping, that does indeed sound very bad! I'll definitely be going with a 100w or greater receiver.

I really like the marantz style, its clean and looks smooth. I'm thinking of bumping up to the SR5010 7.2 receiver. Just curious though, if I only use 5 channels, will the utilized channels receive the surplus wattage, or is each channel limited to the stated output? I don't plan on doing a full 7 speaker setup.

And thanks for those links jbooker82!
Each channel is limited by the circuit and the ratings of the transistors used.  But the weak spot is usually the power supply.  That Marantz receiver is rated at "100 watts per channel into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.08% THD, with 2 channels driven" (directly from the documentation).  If you run it in 5 channel mode, then the power supply can't provide enough current to allow all 5 channels to produce 100w.  You may only get 80w per channel.  If you run all 7 channels you may only get 70w per channel.

While that sounds bad, the ratings were taken by using pink noise (a sound that covers 20hz to 20,000hz with each frequency at the same level) as a signal instead of a movie or music.  Pink noise is the most difficult signal to reproduce.  Music has highs and lows.  Movies really only require 2 to 3 watts of power for average listening.  That is until someone shoots a gun.  That is a peak and will require 100 times the power for a split second.

Why did I explain all of this difficult to understand wattage crap?  To let you know that wattage is the least important aspect of a receiver or any system.  Marketing departments and uninformed users get hung up on that rating.  Does the receiver have all the inputs you need?  Does it have the sound formats you want?  Dolby Digital?  DTS?  Dolby Atmos?  DTS-X?  Does it have auto calibration (extremely important)? If that is the case then get it and ignore the wattage.

What do you want to look at?  Speaker efficiency.  A speaker that is rated at 82db @ 1 watt @ 1 meter is not very efficient.  If you sit 4 meters from the speaker, it will take approximately 40watts of power to hit 90db at your listening position.  And if you have a 100db peak like an explosion then you will need 400w to reach that sound level.  If you get a speaker rated at 92db, then you need 2 watts of power to hit 90 at your listening position and only 200w to reach a 100db peak.

What I did - I built the Dayton III speaker from these plans.  They are not very efficient but they sound great.  My Pioneer receiver is an older model with the Pioneer Elite power output stage.  Even though it doesn't state that it will drive a 4 ohm load, others used it with 4 ohm speakers without issue.  With the DIII's being both 4 ohm and not very efficient, when there were loud peaks like gunshots the output section would draw too much current from the power supply which would drop the voltage and go into protection mode (shut off).  I resolved it by using external amps to power my front 3 speakers.  I bought a pair of Crown XLS 1000 amps.  Yes, they are pro amps.  But they work great with home gear.  They put out a max of 375w into 4 ohms.  One amp runs the left and right speaker.  The other amp uses 1 channel to run the center channel.  The receiver powers my surround speakers.


That's one thing I love about my old Klipsch speakers.  They have horns for tweeters and are super efficient.  I typically use less than 1W to run them, and my receiver is capable of 20W.


Link Posted: 6/6/2016 1:15:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And thanks for those links jbooker82!
View Quote



Not a problem. Some times its nice to save a little cash or get more for the same dollar spent.


Also with some AVR's you can set them up to run a 2nd powered zone off the rear surround terminals if your only going to run a 5.1 system. That way you can have a pair of speakers in another room or out side and run them off your receiver. That's what I do with my TX-NR808. The older ones like mine cant play audio on the second zone that comes from a digital cable (HDMI). It has to be an analog connection. The newer ones can. I pretty much just use my outdoor speakers with the FM radio.
Link Posted: 6/10/2016 8:39:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Really appreciate the help! So I've reconsidered the floor standing models with built in subs. I did hear some Polk tsx440s in person that I liked, and another set by klipsch, I don't recall the model, but they were floor standing as well. I tried them at 2 different places using different audio sources, so I can't really say which sounded best, but they both sounded really good to me.

I think I'll go with one of the hsu subs, any recommendations? I'm mostly going to be using them for movies, maybe 7-8ft away from the Tv.
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