I'm very concerned this may be our reality in the not so distant future. What does the bible say on this subject? I was told this path can't be changed.

The US is a minor to non player in the Armageddon campaign described in the Joel 3, Zech 12-14, etc.....


How the US is removed from the picture isn't stated.

He's right.  The bible doesn't say anything about nuclear war or America.  And you are correct also.  God already has His plan.

I've been reading all this nuke stuff also, and am a bit worried. Just hope to be raptured first...

I look forward to meeting Jesus. I'm going to give him a big ole hug.

Me too, could be soon the way things are heading...

Daniel 11:40King James Version (KJV)

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

What country fights in a Blitzkrieg style ?

What country has the Iran encircled ?


from Trumpet.com

Interesting. I've never seen that before.

But I still think the 'king of the north' is either Turkey or Russia.

Isaiah 17 has been interesting to me lately with whats going on in Syria

17 This message came to me concerning Damascus:

“Look, the city of Damascus will disappear!
   It will become a heap of ruins.
2 The towns of Aroer will be deserted.
   Flocks will graze in the streets and lie down undisturbed,
   with no one to chase them away.
3 The fortified towns of Israel[a] will also be destroyed,
   and the royal power of Damascus will end.
All that remains of Syria[b]
   will share the fate of Israel’s departed glory,”
   declares the Lord of Heaven’s Armies.

Tidings out of the east , and the 200 million man army has to come from a large population..

A darkness has fallen on mankind

Is that from Game of Thrones?

No, it's from a "Cult Church" as defined by The Vatican.

in my own little looking I don't see the U.S. being predominately involved. Though I don't think the U.S. has not had a hand in things. Like it's general support of Israel. I think we will be rendered of no effect in the end for Israel. Whether it be economic, or militarily. Possible president like Obama that doesn't get involved. It's what happens prior to Armageddon that is of interest,(WWIII) as Armageddon goes, the Lord handles it.

My opinion is that the next big thing to be fulfilled looks like the cashless society or "Mark of the beast." This seems to be lining up to where you can't purchase goods without it. I think as the money changers tighten their grip, that the little people will eventually revolt. The resulting conflict will result in Israel being on their own against the Muslims.

This is simply my thoughts on the matter as to how things could play out.

I'm thinking these days that America is the restored/revised Roman Empire of the end times.

I won't be here either way, but I believe it to be a long time off.

Don't count on it. All the major players are aligned right next to Israel, and on the 15th, the leaders of 70 nations are meeting in Paris to try and force a Palestinian state down Israel's throat. There are also correlations between major natural disasters and nations taking an active role in denying the Jews' right to the Promised Land.

Also, this is interesting to say the least:



The picture comes from an astronomy program called Stellarium. It's free if you want to check it out yourself (use Jerusalem as the location); I did, and it's legit as far as the positions are concerned.

It certainly is interesting. A lot can happen between January and September, and it may be that the popular interpretations of the Revelation timeline aren't 100%. It's interesting that Revelation is one big chiasm, with Revelation 12 at the center, which may prompt some adjustments of the popular timeline.

I'm no expert, but I seem to recall Jesus saying words to the effect that only the father knows when the end is coming and that anyone who tries to say they do know is full of it.

Just live your life, the worlds not ending in any of our lifetimes.

If people were to do what you suggest, millions of bookstores would go out of business.

Nah, someone would just come up with something else to write about.

"Learn how to see the past through the secret pages of a history book the government doesn't want you to see!!!!"

It also says that we will see the season.

Matthew 24:36-37 for those following along at home.  

But of that day and hour no one knows. not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.....

And these are definitely the days of Noah.

Just curious, when was the last time your churches did a study of eschatology?

All I know is I'm looking forward to Christ's return. I'd rather be with Christ than anywhere else.

I'm not sure I'm following you.  Churches?  I honestly don't remember ever having an in depth study on eschatology in a sermon series or small group.  Now in a small group study, even the one I'm in now where we are studying 1 Peter, it plays a role in the first chapter.  However, I'm pretty sure there are people from all 3 of the main eschatological views in there, and we all get along.  Now I personally have an interest in it because I think ones view on eschatology drives their view on other things, like missions, evangelism etc. I was just pointing to the fact that in Christian bookstores there are TONs of books on end times.  Many different views.  Everyone wants to know the latest and greatest on when the world will end.  People have been thinking the end is near for 2000 years. I'd much rather spend my time spreading the Gospel. Jesus will return when He will.  I'm not gonna speed it up or delay it.  If He returns tomorrow, I will be elated.  If I live 100 years and He doesn't return before I die, I will be elated to be with Him when I die. And hopefully helped Him spread His Gospel before I die.

Fair enough. I was just curious since I hear that most Reformed churches avoid eschatology, and the RCC definitely does. I'd even argue that amillennialism is a way to avoid the details of prophetic texts.

The reason I like to study prophecy is that it makes up almost a third of the Bible, so obviously we're to pay attention to it. I see your point about pop-eschatology though, because it's gotten ridiculous with the schmetah dreck and obsession with the Antichrist's identity (which is ironic, for the pre-tribs, who would be raptured before the AC shows up anyway). That's why I only post the three most grounded in the Prophecy News Thread. 

That said, those three grounded pastors have given good reasons as to why we are in the closing days of this age. The Revelation 12 sign is a legit one, and not on the same level as the "blood moon" hype, which didn't have such clear scripture supporting those, nor were they unique events. 

You are right though, the priority is focusing on Christ and spreading the Gospel, but I take the signs as a prompting make the world less my home, and be ready to let it all go if I hear that shout.

I think I am safe to say that I've attended and been a member of churches that have been of all views.  I honestly don't know the view of the pastor where I currently attend.  A SBC church. While I don't hold to a dispensational view, if a rapture occurred tomorrow, I have no doubt that I'm saved. I'll debate eschatology with fellow Christians if I am so inclined..  And understand that they are fellow Christians.

Yep!

Thanks for the cowboy vid in GD.  Love those kinds of encouragements right now.

I disagree. The worlds not that great, but it's been worse.

It's not a question of "better or worse" from our standpoint; it's a question of "the days of Noah". 

Remember that we are told that "for as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away". 

What's interesting is that we are told that the "world was filled with violence" and "man's heart was on evil continually". Now remember what Jesus taught in Matthew 5, that sin is a heart issue, because lust=adultery and hate=murder. Now when you consider that thosse places that may lack physical war, are more than made up with pretend war in the form of movies, video games, or even music, then the world is indeed filled with violence from the heart standpoint.  

Also, I don't subscribe to the fallen angel-hybrid theory on the Nephilim, I think the text is making the case that believers (Sons of God) were marrying unbelieving women (daughters of men), based on their physical beauty (compare Genesis 6:2 with the mention of Naamah in Genesis 4:22, who was a daughter of Cain; why mention her? because her name means "lovely"), thus the mixing of the holy and the profane, which God takes seriously throughout the Bible. As for Genesis 6:4, read the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon's definition of the term "nephilim" here; it is a reference to "fallers (bully or tyrant), rebels, apostates", not physical size. They were also "mighty men...men of renown" i.e. they were champions and celebrities...which is EXACTLY how society today looks at famous people, usually based on their physical characteristics and whether their hearts are for the Lord. These are the days of Noah. 

Also, Noah was likely alive during the Tower of Babel, which is a picture of not only globalism, but also of men trying to reach heaven by their own labor; i.e., works salvation. 

I agree with the above on the Nephilim.  Not fallen angels.  Where I disagree in the age of Noah is that in those days there was Noah, and the rest of the world was Anti God, for lack of a better term.  There are more Christians on earth today than at anytime in the History of the world.  Look at the statistics of Africa and Asia.  The United States may be becoming more secular, but we aren't the world. Christianity is growing.  In Noah's day ( yes I know they weren't Christians) but the worship of the one true God, was done by one man.  And perhaps his family.

This is exactly what I was thinking when I made my post.

I'll also preface my opinion with I don't believe there was ever a literal worldwide flood. I take genesis as being mostly allegory, which I understand isn't a popular viewpoint with a lot of Christians.

It's a question of mixing the holy and profane. Look at where modern Christianity is going: we have churches becoming ecumenical, to the point of mixing pagan practices and even reading from the Quran and allowing worship of Allah in their churches. Very few churches actually teach the word of God, they simply read a passage and then try to fit it into their worldview, rather than conform their worldview to the word of God, to the point of even installing church leaders who boast in their sin, such as living an unrepentant homosexual lifestyle (remember Titus 1:7). The church may be 100 miles wide, but it's a half-inch deep, and rotting from the inside out. The question is how bad God will let it get before telling His Son that it's time to go get the bride. 

ETA: we have a type of this in Ezekiel 8-10 (ETA: fixed it) where the Jews were worshiping pagan gods in the Temple, prompting Him to send the reapers to cut down those without the "mark" of God on their foreheads - and the word "mark" here in the Hebrew is literally the Hebrews letter "tav" which at that time was written as a cross). 

ETA2: An article on churches mixing with Allah worship here

"And the stars of heaven fell to the Earth,
       as a fig tree drops its late figs
       when it is shaken by a mighty wind.
       Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up,
       and every mountain and island was moved out of its place
       And the kings of the Earth, the great men, the rich men,
       the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man,
       hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains"
       (Revelation 6:13-15)

Zechariah14:2 Now this will be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 It will come about in that day that a great panic from the Lord will fall on them; and they will seize one another’s hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.

Ezekiel 38:17 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days through My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them? 18 It will come about on that day, when Gog comes against the land of Israel,” declares the Lord God, “that My fury will mount up in My anger. 19 In My zeal and in My blazing wrath I declare that on that day there will surely be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all the creeping things that creep on the earth, and all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at My presence; the mountains also will be thrown down, the steep pathways will collapse and every wall will fall to the ground. 21 I will call for a sword against him on all My mountains,” declares the Lord God. “Every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22 With pestilence and with blood I will enter into judgment with him; and I will rain on him and on his troops, and on the many peoples who are with him, a torrential rain, with hailstones, fire and brimstone. 23 I will magnify Myself, sanctify Myself, and make Myself known in the sight of many nations; and they will know that I am the Lord.”’

Ezekiel 39:6 “And I will send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the Lord..... 12 For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13 Even all the people of the land will bury them; and it will be to their renown on the day that I glorify Myself,” declares the Lord God. 14 “They will set apart men who will constantly pass through the land, burying those who were passing through, even those left on the surface of the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. 15 As those who pass through the land pass through and anyone sees a man’s bone, then he will set up a marker by it until the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamon-gog. 16 And even the name of the city will be Hamonah. So they will cleanse the land.”’

I know this'll be unpopular but:


I'm of the view that we're living in the period of tribulation now and that the relatively recent development of the rapture is an non-issue. Seals have been broken and trumpets already have sounded. Personifying the antichrist is also misleading, instead of looking for one single human being you should be aware that anything could become your god- money, power, your job, yourself even. The antichrist is a concept and not a person and has been walking amongst us since the fall of man. Even the number 666 is a clue to this, it's a corruption of the concept of the Holy Trinity, a hollow imitation luring people away from the truth. 7 is a significant and frequently used number in the Bible and 6 falls short of that.

Most of Revelation is figurative language concerning Satan's attempts to subvert and destroy mankind and the perils of living in a fallen world. Death, famine, plagues, etc occur every single day. Satan's losing battle against the church is detailed through imagery and the victory of Christ is complete, we're just waiting until the appointed time when Christ returns and evil is purged from the world. The Bible even says the righteous dead are but asleep and will be reawakened and remade at the second coming of Christ. The physical world will be cleansed and remade as it should be.

The concept of the rapture is appealing because it gives you that one last chance that you'll know everything is for real and can get right. Christ says his return will be like a thief in the night, he's not going to ring the doorbell and tell you he'll be back later.

Probably disjointed and confusing, hard to type much from a phone.

So the questions I will ask is, which verse(s) are we currently at in Revelation, and how do you explain verses such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18? 

As far as the Antichrist is concerned, how do you address verses such as  2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 7:24-25, 1 John 2:18, and Revelation 13:5? 

I wish I were a better scholar but I'll do my best.

For the first paragraph I believe there is a distinction between the worldly and corrupted flesh we know and the immortal body we'll receive once everything is complete. How that occurs, talking about people meeting Christ in the air, I don't know. I do know the world will be purged of evil so maybe that's preserving the righteous before they and the earth are remade?

Second paragraph, I don't have a good answer. It's been a long time since I studied Daniel and I couldn't really tell you. That part about multiple antichrists having come before kinda reinforces my position about not one powerful and evil man that'll woo the world. Satan has been at work trying to lead us away through many means, both human and material.

Rereading what I wrote I didn't mean an actual sleep as in unconsciousness as the Hebrew Bible makes multiple references to Sheol, a place of waiting and talks about the martyrs asking when everything will be set right.

Let me know what you think, it sounds like you have some thoughts.

1 Corinthians 15:50-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 are not about death, since Paul is talking about believers who have "fallen asleep" which is a Greek euphemism for death, yet "we who are alive and remain" will be "caught up"  which in the Greek the word "harpazo" i.e. 'snatching up', and is the term for the rapture. Yes we will receive glorified bodies, but in 1 Cor. 15 Paul is explaining that we will get those after death or rapture. 

While anyone who denies Christ has come in the flesh is an antichrist, there will be the Antichrist in the last days, aka "the man of perdition". 

We aren't in the tribulation, since Christ told us in Matthew 24 that it will be the worst time in history. Revelations 6 states that 1/4 of the world will die when the 4th Seal is opened. This hasn't happened yet. 

That could happen tomorrow from many causes. Nukes, natural mishap, disease etc.

True. 

There's a lot of discussion and debate about then the tribulation actually starts in Revelation. Some say at the 1st Seal. Some say at the 4, or 6th. Others differentiate between tribulation and the Great Tribulation, saying that this is the last 3 1/2 years. Every premillennial generally uses the same verses, regardless of views on rapture timing. It's when you get into Old Testament types and shadows that I think pre-trib stands out. 

Bottom line is that God decides. That's why if I'm nailed-down I consider myself a pre-trib leaning pan-trib, as in it will all pan-out. I still try to pay attention to prophetically significant events.

I'm sure when we get to heaven, if we were given the chance, everyone would bicker on how their view was the correct one in the end. 

 

i've seen this guy on tv a couple of times.  one of the few preachers i've watched that seems to have a handle on the Book of Revelation.

Irwin Baxter

These guys strongly disagree.

ETA: These guys also

interdasting - i've watched David Reagan from time to time as well.

 One opinion about the summit next week:  The Paris Summit Fulfills Psalm 2...

No man knows the hour of His return, but we can tell the season and be prepared.

Israel has been reborn as a nation.  IIRC the generation that sees that shall be the last generation.

The Tribulation starts with one solid year of peace.

I see Psalm 2 being fulfilled all the time.  Saw it last election.

Oh this is far more significant. This is the entire world coming against Israel, God's promised land. 

You haven't talked to a Liberal lately have you?

With this, I certainly agree.