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Posted: 5/21/2016 4:45:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Fine, I rule that if she left you for someone else, she committed adultery, and you're free to marry and bang another within the confines of your second marriage.
If your local padre doesn't agree, reconvert to a non-catholic christian sect that agrees with you. You have my permission if you do so, thereby, to style yourself "Henry IX" |
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Posted: 5/21/2016 10:41:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm going to agree with the gist of what Circuits said, with a few additions.
1) There are other valid reasons for divorce than adultery, abuse is the first one that comes to mind. 2) Don't go shopping for a "Christian" sect that agrees with you. Go find one where the Bible is taught and Jesus Christ is loved. 3) It's good that you are mindful of The Law, but always, ALWAYS remember that your salvation is through faith in the saving grace of Christ Jesus alone. |
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Posted: 5/22/2016 5:47:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks guys! That's what I figured and I'm back to an independent Christian church now.
TC |
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Posted: 5/22/2016 8:31:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Why not read the scripture for yourself and then you'll know what it says instead of relying on a priest, pastor, Bob down the street, the girl at the check out register at the local 7/11, or a church to tell you.
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Posted: 5/28/2016 7:02:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Only after the death of the spouse (or ex spouse) can remarriage not be adultery. Having the marriage annulled, being divorced, or separated changes nothing. The exception for fornication in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 refers to the betrothal or engagement period before the wedding.
1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Mark 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Matthew 1:18-19 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. |
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Posted: 5/28/2016 10:36:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only after the death of the spouse (or ex spouse) can remarriage not be adultery. Having the marriage annulled, being divorced, or separated changes nothing. The exception for fornication in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 refers to the betrothal or engagement period before the wedding. 1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. Mark 10:11-12 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. Matthew 1:18-19 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. Where do you get that adultery is acceptable for divorce ONLY during engagement? |
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Posted: 5/29/2016 12:45:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you get that adultery is acceptable for divorce ONLY during engagement? The text doesn't say adultery. Matt 5:32 and 19:9 say fornication, which in this context is sexual immorality outside of marriage. If one of the participants is betrothed/married, then it's *also* adultery because the non-cheating partner is the victim (see Mark 10:11-12). If the definitions were identical here, there would be no need to use both terms. Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. In english, Matthew 5:32 sounds like the man is causing his wife to commit adultery by merely divorcing her, but that can't be, because Jesus is telling us the man here is in the right. The text literally reads "(her) fornication causeth herself to commit adultery". Still not convinced? We can see this "get out of jail free" exception doesn't apply to people already married by the disciples' reaction in Matthew 19:9-10 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. Doesn't sound like they were exactly high-fiving each other. To drive the point home, Jesus continued: Matthew 19:11-12 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. If you get married, then divorce, consider yourself a eunuch until your ex passes away. Only engaged when your partner cheats? Break it off no worries. |
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Posted: 6/2/2016 12:33:30 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The text doesn't say adultery. Matt 5:32 and 19:9 say fornication, which in this context is sexual immorality outside of marriage. If one of the participants is betrothed/married, then it's *also* adultery because the non-cheating partner is the victim (see Mark 10:11-12). If the definitions were identical here, there would be no need to use both terms. Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. In english, Matthew 5:32 sounds like the man is causing his wife to commit adultery by merely divorcing her, but that can't be, because Jesus is telling us the man here is in the right. The text literally reads "(her) fornication causeth herself to commit adultery". Quote HistoryQuoted:
The text doesn't say adultery. Matt 5:32 and 19:9 say fornication, which in this context is sexual immorality outside of marriage. If one of the participants is betrothed/married, then it's *also* adultery because the non-cheating partner is the victim (see Mark 10:11-12). If the definitions were identical here, there would be no need to use both terms. Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. In english, Matthew 5:32 sounds like the man is causing his wife to commit adultery by merely divorcing her, but that can't be, because Jesus is telling us the man here is in the right. The text literally reads "(her) fornication causeth herself to commit adultery". Ye should put downeth the inaccurate translations and pick upeth a concordance. In my 10 years of being a Christian I have seen one primary source of legalism in Christianity: taking a quote out of the context of the people that it was said to and interpreting a translated language from the context of a modern cultural viewpoint. The Greek word used in Matt 5:32 and 19:9 is "porneia" translated in many versions as sexual immorality. This would be sexual immorality of any kind and sometimes is even used in the context of worshiping idols. Here is a link to concordance that explains this word and all the places in the bible it is used - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=NASB Quoted:
Still not convinced? We can see this "get out of jail free" exception doesn't apply to people already married by the disciples' reaction in Matthew 19:9-10 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. Doesn't sound like they were exactly high-fiving each other. To drive the point home, Jesus continued: Matthew 19:11-12 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. If you get married, then divorce, consider yourself a eunuch until your ex passes away. Only engaged when your partner cheats? Break it off no worries. This is reading things into the bible that is not there (the way that legalism starts). Reading Matthew 19:9 (ESV) it says - And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. This clearly says divorce is not okay UNLESS the husband was cheated on. Going on to Matthew 19:11-12 (ESV) - But he said to them, “Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” This is consistent with what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7:6-9 (ESV) - Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion. Basically, if God gives you the ability to live single without suffering from lust, then you should stay single. But if not, get married so you don't live in sin. |
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Posted: 6/2/2016 6:20:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ye should put downeth the inaccurate translations and pick upeth a concordance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. In english, Matthew 5:32 sounds like the man is causing his wife to commit adultery by merely divorcing her, but that can't be, because Jesus is telling us the man here is in the right. The text literally reads "(her) fornication causeth herself to commit adultery". Ye should put downeth the inaccurate translations and pick upeth a concordance. Are you serious? 
This is reading things into the bible that is not there (the way that legalism starts).
Reading Matthew 19:9 (ESV) it says - And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. This clearly says divorce is not okay UNLESS the husband was cheated on. It's easy to claim things are being read into the Bible, especially when your ESV starts by removing text from the Bible. 
Can you explain why the man who marries the 'legally divorced' woman is committing adultery, and why the ESV saw fit to delete that text? |
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Posted: 6/2/2016 7:14:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Because the ESV used a more correct manuscript?
I don't see your point in the KJV text. It says, divorce is not allowed, except for adultery. And if there is divorce (except for adultery) and a remarriage, that is adultery. Because marriage is a covenant between the man and woman, and God. So if God says the only way to break the covenant is adultery, and you divorce for a burnt meal...the law of the land may say you are divorced, but the law of God doesn't. So to have sexual relations with a person whom is not your lawfull spouse in Gods eyes is adultery. That's what they both say. |
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Posted: 6/7/2016 5:31:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Because the ESV used a more correct manuscript? Personal correspondence published after their deaths reveal they took great pleasure in manipulating the beliefs unsuspecting commoners. It says, divorce is not allowed, except for adultery. The 'divorce' is allowed, because the marriage was never finalized. Matthew and 1 Corinthians 7:15 are exceptions to the rule. Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, and Romans 7:2-3 is the rule. |
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Posted: 6/8/2016 2:26:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please research Westcott and Hort. Two 'Bible scholars' who denied the deity of Jesus as well as His blood atonement on the cross. Either denial would land a soul in eternal darkness, but being determined to get reservations in the hottest corner of hell's boiler room, they took 28 years to create a new Greek text, into which they wove their personal beliefs and from which the ESV and other modern translations are derived. Personal correspondence published after their deaths reveal they took great pleasure in manipulating the beliefs unsuspecting commoners. Once again, in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 Jesus says fornication. "Porneia" as ar15eric dutifully pointed out. There is a difference. If it's not clear from Matthew 1:18-19 that the text is referring to an allegation of premarital sex, then John 8:41 will be of no help to you either. The 'divorce' is allowed, because the marriage was never finalized. Matthew and 1 Corinthians 7:15 are exceptions to the rule. Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, and Romans 7:2-3 is the rule. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because the ESV used a more correct manuscript? Personal correspondence published after their deaths reveal they took great pleasure in manipulating the beliefs unsuspecting commoners. It says, divorce is not allowed, except for adultery. The 'divorce' is allowed, because the marriage was never finalized. Matthew and 1 Corinthians 7:15 are exceptions to the rule. Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, and Romans 7:2-3 is the rule. Divorce is not the issue. Adultery comes with remarriage. Divorce own its own, while regrettable, is not necessarily a sin. It's also worth considering that neither of the other two synoptic gospels mention this adultery exception, not does Paul in 1 Cor 7. Porneia has several potential meanings in Greek and adultery isn't one of them. There was a specific word for adultery. Porneia means unchastity or sexual immorality. Since marriages only become indissoluble when consummated and Jewish tradition typically had a marriage ceremony but the couple lived apart for a year and only then was the marriage consummated and made indissoluble. So, as some have asserted, porneia could refer to infidelity prior to consummating the marriage, in which case the couple would not be truly married. See Mary and Joseph for a reference to this. Porneia could also mean immorality as in incest. In this case, an incestuous marriage would not be valid because marriage between siblings was not permitted, therefore marrying after ending an invalid marriage would not be adulterous. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 4:53:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please research Westcott and Hort. Two 'Bible scholars' who denied the deity of Jesus as well as His blood atonement on the cross. Either denial would land a soul in eternal darkness, but being determined to get reservations in the hottest corner of hell's boiler room, they took 28 years to create a new Greek text, into which they wove their personal beliefs and from which the ESV and other modern translations are derived. ....... The 'divorce' is allowed, because the marriage was never finalized. Matthew and 1 Corinthians 7:15 are exceptions to the rule. Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, and Romans 7:2-3 is the rule. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because the ESV used a more correct manuscript? ....... The 'divorce' is allowed, because the marriage was never finalized. Matthew and 1 Corinthians 7:15 are exceptions to the rule. Mark 10:11-12, Luke 16:18, and Romans 7:2-3 is the rule. Trying to use the reason "2 translators with an agenda" is a poor excuse for spreading a false teaching. People who get stuck on this ridiculous "one true translation" garbage are very ignorant in their faith if they actually have any. The KJV was great for its time, but the English language it uses has changed and many of the words don't have the same meaning they use to have (i.e. There are no unicorns in the bible). I will agree that the ESV has its flaws, but it is not the only translation that interprets these verses the same way. That is why any study of the bible must multiple translations should be used. But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | ESV But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NKJV but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NASB But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | HCSB And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9 | ESV And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9 | NKJV “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9 | NASB And I tell you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.” Matthew 19:9 | HCSB |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:05:52 PM EDT
[#14]
If adultery comes with remarriage; how does divorcing a wife cause her to commit adultery? ( there is no "if she remarries" there)
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:23:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If adultery comes with remarriage; how does divorcing a wife cause her to commit adultery? ( there is no "if she remarries" there) Because, at the time, women had no way to support themselves and their children outside of marriage. |
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Posted: 7/1/2016 9:54:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Its safe to say that the Bible does not look favorably on divorce and remarriage.
I listened to a sermon by a local Baptist preacher who completely glossed over the issue and instructed his flock, that the Bible authorizes divorce in the case of infidelity. So those that are divorced for 'irreconcilable differences' are NOT legitimate UNTIL one or the other of the previously married spouses begins a physical relationship with someone else after the divorce. Then the scriptural criteria would be met and the divorce was OK at that point. It was an appalling, horrible and tortuous treatment of the meaning and the intent of scripture. Mark 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. 10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. 11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. |
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Posted: 7/1/2016 11:24:02 AM EDT
[#17]
That's pretty messed up.
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Posted: 7/1/2016 6:34:56 PM EDT
[#18]
I remember speaking with an archdiocese lawyer about divirce annulment. He said the burden comes at proving one or the other never had the intent to honor their vows, hence the marriage never happened.
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Posted: 7/1/2016 7:14:17 PM EDT
[#19]
All poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles.
All adultery is fornication, but not all fornication is adultery. Adultery being breaking of martial vows, fornication being sexual perversion of any kind. |
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Posted: 7/4/2016 1:32:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | ESV But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NKJV but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NASB But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | HCSB Still waiting. How is it possible for a man to be guilty of adultery for marrying a divorced woman? |
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Posted: 7/4/2016 1:49:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still waiting. How is it possible for a man to be guilty of adultery for marrying a divorced woman? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | ESV But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NKJV but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NASB But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | HCSB Still waiting. How is it possible for a man to be guilty of adultery for marrying a divorced woman? How is it possible for an administrative legal act to override a sacrament? An administrative legal act does not end a Christian marriage. Where does any judge get that authority? That's what a lot of people miss in all of this nonsense. Either a marriage is a permanent religious bond made in the sight of God, or it's a mere legal contract. If the latter, stop using churches as props for photos and do more weddings in courthouses. |
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Posted: 7/4/2016 4:14:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Still waiting. How is it possible for a man to be guilty of adultery for marrying a divorced woman? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | ESV But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NKJV but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | NASB But I tell you, everyone who divorces his wife, except in a case of sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:32 | HCSB Still waiting. How is it possible for a man to be guilty of adultery for marrying a divorced woman? It's possible for a man to be guilty of adultery because divorce does not break the sacramental bond of marriage. Since the divorced woman is still married in the eyes of God, marrying her means the man is committing adultery. As far as the wife goes, if the wife has already been unchaste, the husband divorcing her does not make her commit adultery because she has already committed adultery. Note that the gospel does not say that if the wife is unchaste/sexually immoral, the gospel does not say that the marriage never existed. What do the other synoptic gospels say? |
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