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Link Posted: 3/30/2016 3:13:13 PM EDT
[#1]
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I'm wary of those people.

*shrug*
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, go get some counseling from a pro-marriage counselor who can help teach you and your wife how to rebuild that marital trust.  




I'm wary of those people.

*shrug*



That's why I would ask my parish priest or diocese for a recommendation(s)
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 4:26:16 PM EDT
[#2]
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Do you love her?  Is she your best friend? Do what Jesus would do and move past it.
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Hi all,

Just to get this out of the way, this is absolutely not a troll thread.  I have debated even posting this for months.

My wife and I are both Catholic, we initially met through eharmony, we both said that our faith played an important part in our lives.  The first time we met I knew that I would marry her.  She was (and still is) gorgeous and had a magnificent personality and outlook on life.  Things between us became quite serious early in our relationship, we both knew we were meant for each other and loved each other deeply.  

The topic of premarital sex was discussed early, she informed me that she was not a virgin, I told her that I was, as I believed in waiting for the woman I would marry.  As we talked about the subject further, what she described to me was basically non-consensual.  I felt absolutely awful for her and assured her that what had happened to her was in no way her fault and that she needed to accept that she had been forced against her will and forgive herself.

Fast forward 5 years.  We have a 2 year old daughter with a second on the way and have been married for 3 1/2 years.  A couple of months ago she randomly began talking about her relationship that resulted in her being forced to have intercourse.  Without getting into too much detail, she, for some reason, brought this up after we had just been together.  She said that she did not really enjoy her first time with this person and that she was reluctant to have sex with him.  I was immediately taken aback and asked her what she meant by that.  She then told me that they had actually had intercourse multiple times.  I was upset as I had thought for the past 5 year that she had basically been raped by this person.

She did not understand why I was upset, that she had told me early on in the relationship that she was not a virgin.  I told her that to me, there was quite a difference between being forced to have sex with a person versus having an ongoing relationship involving multiple instances of intercourse.  I told her that I felt I had been deceived.  She did not agree with me, asking what difference it made whether she had had sex once or 100 times as she had told me she was not a virgin.  

I told her that, at least to me, the circumstances surrounding her relationship had a great deal to do with my perception regarding her sexual history.  I asked if there was anything else that she had not told me and she then went on to tell me that she was intimate with 4 other people during college.  I felt, and still do feel crushed.  I asked her why she did not tell me this when we were dating and she replied that I had not asked.  I did ask regarding her past, as I felt that it was important that the person I would eventually marry shared my values.  She responded that I did not ask her specifically and so she felt that her saying she was not a virgin was enough of an answer.

As a religious person, I know that I should forgive her and ask God for guidance in forgiveness and move on.  But at the same time, I am absolutely tormented that at the time this occurred she was very heavily involved in her university's Catholic organization and the person she lost her virginity to was part of a Catholic outreach ministry.  I am completely lost in all of this.  I feel betrayed and devastated that the woman I love chose to withhold this information when I made it clear early in our relationship that this was something that was important to me.  Obviously divorce is not and will not be an option, I fully intend to honor the vows of marriage, something I have told her time and again.  But in spite of this I cannot seem to move past this.  

I posted this in the religious forum because I did not want to deal with the ridicule of general discussion, and even if this post garners no response, it is some how therapeutic to be able to vent these feelings.

To everyone that took the time to read this lengthy post, thank you and God bless.


Do you love her?  Is she your best friend? Do what Jesus would do and move past it.
this. it was the past/ since taking her vows with you has she kept and honored those vows? That's the only question you need to ask. I hate it when my wife brings up past partners. Its not something enjoyable to talk about. I regret I didnt just wait out for the right person. Im glad I found my wife and hopefully she is glad she found me.
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 6:09:41 PM EDT
[#3]
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Sounds like it's marriage counselor time. Since you're both catholic, seems like getting one through your church would be ideal.
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Came to post this.  Find a priest who is also a counselor and meet with them.

Be as non-confrontational towards your wife as you can, and always remember the first rule of marriage.  If you are in the right, apologize immediately.

Yes, that was said very tongue in cheek.  But the point remains that you can not force someone else to see that what they have done has damaged the relationship.  They must see it for themselves.  If they fear/resent your condemnation they won't make it past that barrier to see the issue in an unbiased light.

Background on me, FWIW
I'm an Evangelical Protestant who didn't get saved until shortly after I met the woman who would become my wife.  I was promiscuous until shortly before I met her.  She was a virgin when we wed.
Link Posted: 4/6/2016 9:39:58 AM EDT
[#4]
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That is the plan... I am not going to let this break up my marriage.
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Let the past go.


Easier said than done, but this.  She's the mother of your children.  Get over it and love her like Christ loves his church.


That is the plan... I am not going to let this break up my marriage.


I have gone through a divorce. My ex was found to have an affair. Divorce is nasty as it brings out the worse - in everyone. I understand she lied and deceived you - but unless she has committed adultery I do not believe you have grounds for a divorce, separation, yes, divorce no. Now goes the hard part of building a strong relationship and marriage. Satan isnt stupid. The battle is not just physical but also of the mind.
Link Posted: 4/6/2016 9:58:05 AM EDT
[#5]
I guess you can look at it two ways.  

1.She lied to you then, or 2.she has finally come to the point in her life and marriage where she wants to be fully honest with you.  


She may have withheld details when dating you thinking that revealing them would scare you off.  After having been married to you, she probably has had those details eating on her for years.  Perhaps she finally reached the point that she wanted to clear her conscience and be open with you.  If she has been completely faithful to you since marriage,  then you can potentially use this as an experience to start a new level of trust.  

With kids involved,  it is a more complex situation.  If she is willing to commit herself to you from this point on,  then it would be in your children's, and your best interest to forgive her and move on.  Counseling may help you with this.

She could have easily kept all of this a secret, and life would have gone on with you being ignorant.  Would you have preferred that?  Or are you glad that the truth is finally out, and she is trying to be honest.

Yes, it would have been good to be honest from the start,  but if you have enjoyed your time being married to her, and love her and your children,   then focus on your future together and not her past.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 6:09:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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Let the past go.
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This.

Everything Before Each Other (BEO) should not matter.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 6:14:20 PM EDT
[#7]
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Wise words Big Easy. They should both talk and she should apologize then they should figure out how to proceed with their future
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Forgive.

Don't judge.

Love her.


She decieved him in a very serious way, and she's unrepentant and pretending like it's no big deal. Sure he should forgive her, after she asks to be forgiven. She's very lucky he's catholic, IMHO. Her current behavior vis a vis her dishonesty would have me considering separating if I were in his shoes.

Wise words Big Easy. They should both talk and she should apologize then they should figure out how to proceed with their future


Step 1 - he needs to TELL HER in explicit words how HE FEELS.  

In this fashion:  "When you told me X, I felt [emotion] because of Y and Z".

Not usually an instinctive thing for men to do.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 6:42:24 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm late discovering this thread.  This is heavy stuff and I need a bit to sort it out in my head before suggesting anything.  Prayer offered for you and your marriage, footdoc1.
Link Posted: 4/14/2016 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#9]
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This.

Everything Before Each Other (BEO) should not matter.
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Let the past go.



This.

Everything Before Each Other (BEO) should not matter.



The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

People do not truly change long term.  They adjust...but they do not change their nature.  

Liars will lie again.  Cheaters will cheat again.  Thieves will steal again.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:37:45 AM EDT
[#10]
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The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

People do not truly change long term.  They adjust...but they do not change their nature.  

Liars will lie again.  Cheaters will cheat again.  Thieves will steal again.
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The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

People do not truly change long term.  They adjust...but they do not change their nature.  

Liars will lie again.  Cheaters will cheat again.  Thieves will steal again.

Negative.

The biggest evidence of a person becoming a Christian is a changed life. I would agree with you that a person can not change themselves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit changing them. Becoming a Christian is a one step process; accepting Jesus as your Saviour. Then they no longer are this things they used to be. There are not perfect, but they are no longer ruled by their past.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 | ESV
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:41:06 AM EDT
[#11]
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Came to post this.  Find a priest who is also a counselor and meet with them.
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Sorry, but I really don't think they are qualified to be giving anyone advice on marriage.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:52:01 AM EDT
[#12]
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Sounds like it's marriage counselor time. Since you're both catholic, seems like getting one through your church would be ideal.
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Yes.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:54:47 AM EDT
[#13]
I'm kind of struggling to see problem here. I was raised Catholic but was never really a Christian until my late 20s when I accepted Jesus as my Savior (btw, now I am Protestant).

I was not a virgin when I got married and neither was my wife; we both had impurity issues (and she even had a divorce) prior to becoming Christians. In marriage prep classes it was explained to me this way; Christ died for your sins and you are forgiven for your past transgressions, He did the same for other person you are going to marry.

Link Posted: 4/17/2016 4:46:55 AM EDT
[#14]
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Negative.

The biggest evidence of a person becoming a Christian is a changed life. I would agree with you that a person can not change themselves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit changing them. Becoming a Christian is a one step process; accepting Jesus as your Saviour. Then they no longer are this things they used to be. There are not perfect, but they are no longer ruled by their past.

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The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.

People do not truly change long term.  They adjust...but they do not change their nature.  

Liars will lie again.  Cheaters will cheat again.  Thieves will steal again.

Negative.

The biggest evidence of a person becoming a Christian is a changed life. I would agree with you that a person can not change themselves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit changing them. Becoming a Christian is a one step process; accepting Jesus as your Saviour. Then they no longer are this things they used to be. There are not perfect, but they are no longer ruled by their past.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 | ESV


In practice, my point is true.  In theory, your point is true.

Christians do very unchristian things regularly.  It's just reality.  


Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:18:22 AM EDT
[#15]
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In practice, my point is true.  In theory, your point is true.

Christians do very unchristian things regularly.  It's just reality.  
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Negative.

The biggest evidence of a person becoming a Christian is a changed life. I would agree with you that a person can not change themselves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit changing them. Becoming a Christian is a one step process; accepting Jesus as your Saviour. Then they no longer are this things they used to be. There are not perfect, but they are no longer ruled by their past.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 | ESV


In practice, my point is true.  In theory, your point is true.

Christians do very unchristian things regularly.  It's just reality.  

In reality, your point is not true. Yes, the Christian is still a sinner so they are not perfect, but before Christ and after Christ there is a significant change and that change gets more drastic the longer they are a Christian. They spend their lives trying to be more like Christ, but they will never be Christ.

Also just because someone claims they are a Christian doesn't mean they are one. There are whole churches that are filled with people that don't know Christ. This is probably where people get this expectation that Christians are supposed to be perfect. Preaching that someone is going to hell because of sin X or sin Y is not the gospel.

The gospel is these 2 things -

1) All people are fallen, and without outside intervention, live a life rejecting God, and that makes them deserve hell.
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23 | ESV

2) But by accepting Christ as your Savior, He takes punishment that you deserve and you are righteous before God.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23 | ESV
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 12:32:14 PM EDT
[#16]
1. Don't ask questions you cannot handle ANY answer to.


2. Did you ask her how many guys she screwed? No. You had your chance back then. You assumed it was only one, one time.


3. She did not lie to you. She offered all the truth you needed. Remember, you didn't ask how many she screwed.


4. You got kids and a family now, it's not her fault you didn't ask all the questions that you should of at the proper time.

5. Are you going to split up your family now because of this? If so, that's worse than her getting some premarital cock.


6. Get over it or break up the family over it. That's your 2 choices.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 1:06:32 PM EDT
[#17]
OK, a few thoughts:

"she described to me was basically non-consensual. I felt absolutely awful for her and assured her that what had happened to her was in no way her fault and that she needed to accept that she had been forced against her will and forgive herself."

I'll start with this part.  It establishes a clear context, both for footdoc1 and his wife (girlfriend/fiancee at the time) of how footdoc1 understood her situation.  It is very clear.

-later-
" She did not agree with me, asking what difference it made whether she had had sex once or 100 times as she had told me she was not a virgin."

With the original clear understanding of context, this is a very misleading response.  It is a rationalization suggesting that since footdoc1 knew that she wasn't a virgin, context shouldn't matter when she absolutely knew that values and standards did matter to him before she married him.

"she was intimate with 4 other people during college"
She knew this was relevant the entire time, but had concealed the fact from him and presented a distorted perception to him to avoid addressing it before.  She knew that values matter to him.

Some have argued that this should all be swept under the rug and forgotten.  I argue that such a view is mistaken.  Why?  Because her actions manifest a clear intent to mislead a potential spouse about one's character and choices until after he was committed to her.  Not a good way to begin a marriage relationship.

First, as some others have said, this desperately needs counseling.  Yes, forgiveness absolutely has its place in all this, but so does repentance.  An integral part of repentance is acknowledging personal accountability.  Deliberately misleading someone until after they've firmly committed themselves to a marriage is no small transgression.

Simply forgiving without addressing the deception would establish a bad template for the relationship to follow going forward.  Again, this needs counseling and she needs to acknowledge what she's done.  Otherwise, what's to stop her from using the same pattern of deception and excuses for the rest of their marriage?
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