Hi all,

Just to get this out of the way, this is absolutely not a troll thread.  I have debated even posting this for months.

My wife and I are both Catholic, we initially met through eharmony, we both said that our faith played an important part in our lives.  The first time we met I knew that I would marry her.  She was (and still is) gorgeous and had a magnificent personality and outlook on life.  Things between us became quite serious early in our relationship, we both knew we were meant for each other and loved each other deeply.  

The topic of premarital sex was discussed early, she informed me that she was not a virgin, I told her that I was, as I believed in waiting for the woman I would marry.  As we talked about the subject further, what she described to me was basically non-consensual.  I felt absolutely awful for her and assured her that what had happened to her was in no way her fault and that she needed to accept that she had been forced against her will and forgive herself.

Fast forward 5 years.  We have a 2 year old daughter with a second on the way and have been married for 3 1/2 years.  A couple of months ago she randomly began talking about her relationship that resulted in her being forced to have intercourse.  Without getting into too much detail, she, for some reason, brought this up after we had just been together.  She said that she did not really enjoy her first time with this person and that she was reluctant to have sex with him.  I was immediately taken aback and asked her what she meant by that.  She then told me that they had actually had intercourse multiple times.  I was upset as I had thought for the past 5 year that she had basically been raped by this person.

She did not understand why I was upset, that she had told me early on in the relationship that she was not a virgin.  I told her that to me, there was quite a difference between being forced to have sex with a person versus having an ongoing relationship involving multiple instances of intercourse.  I told her that I felt I had been deceived.  She did not agree with me, asking what difference it made whether she had had sex once or 100 times as she had told me she was not a virgin.  

I told her that, at least to me, the circumstances surrounding her relationship had a great deal to do with my perception regarding her sexual history.  I asked if there was anything else that she had not told me and she then went on to tell me that she was intimate with 4 other people during college.  I felt, and still do feel crushed.  I asked her why she did not tell me this when we were dating and she replied that I had not asked.  I did ask regarding her past, as I felt that it was important that the person I would eventually marry shared my values.  She responded that I did not ask her specifically and so she felt that her saying she was not a virgin was enough of an answer.

As a religious person, I know that I should forgive her and ask God for guidance in forgiveness and move on.  But at the same time, I am absolutely tormented that at the time this occurred she was very heavily involved in her university's Catholic organization and the person she lost her virginity to was part of a Catholic outreach ministry.  I am completely lost in all of this.  I feel betrayed and devastated that the woman I love chose to withhold this information when I made it clear early in our relationship that this was something that was important to me.  Obviously divorce is not and will not be an option, I fully intend to honor the vows of marriage, something I have told her time and again.  But in spite of this I cannot seem to move past this.  

I posted this in the religious forum because I did not want to deal with the ridicule of general discussion, and even if this post garners no response, it is some how therapeutic to be able to vent these feelings.

To everyone that took the time to read this lengthy post, thank you and God bless.

You kind of hit the nail on the head there bud.

Find someone you can talk to that you trust. A lot of people just need to talk it out and vent. Help you process it and get to the point where you can let it go.

Because frankly you can either find a way to get over it. Or you can become bitter about it and start resenting her for it.

Sounds like it's marriage counselor time. Since you're both catholic, seems like getting one through your church would be ideal.

Let the past go.

Do you love her?  Is she your best friend? Do what Jesus would do and move past it.

Just a thought for you...before marriage you have a because of love.

I love you because you are beautiful.  
I love you because you make me feel happy.  
I love you because you make we want to be a better man, etc.

After marriage you have a regardless love.  
I love you regardless of your beauty.  
I love you regardless of how I feel.

To love without regard is what you need to do.   Forgive her.  If you need to, ask her to ask for your forgiveness, if she's up for that.   If it helps, I can see both sides of the issue...her thinking it didn't matter and you being hurt by it. You both are right.

If you let it the enemy will use this to plant seeds of distrust and bitterness in your marriage.  It's up to you to pull them out.  Counseling may be helpful in you both seeing each others side.

Hope this helps....
Rhino

Thank you all very much for your insights and helpfulness.

Jesus would know what she had been thinking then, and would know what's in her heart now. But the OP doesn't.

If I were the OP, I'd be desperate to understand what she'd been thinking then, and if she still had issues with honesty now.

In her shoes, I'd want to have my behavior and life examined and understood by my husband. I wouldn't want him to just leave me alone about it, I'd want to be forgiven and trusted again.

Just because your wife didn't share, or more likely simply failed to live up to, your values, back in college does not mean she does not now.

My wife did a lot of stuff in her past she's not proud of, long before she met me. So did I. Heck, for a long time it wouldn't have been fair to call either of us really Catholic, including around when we got married. But we both moved past that and most importantly went to Confession and tried to sin no more.

You didn't even know her then. You've been married for five years. Let it go.

ETA: My wife once told me she was afraid to tell me something minor because of what my reaction might be. I then realized that, in that situation, I was the problem, not her.

OP I would forgive her and go forward before this harms the relationship. You have to much to lose.
Don't let Satan use the past to destroy the future.
Your family will be in my prayers.

ETA
Wife unit feels like there was some dishonesty on her part and if she hasn't asked for forgiveness then christian counseling may be in order.

Forgive.

Don't judge.

Love her.

She decieved him in a very serious way, and she's unrepentant and pretending like it's no big deal. Sure he should forgive her, after she asks to be forgiven. She's very lucky he's catholic, IMHO. Her current behavior vis a vis her dishonesty would have me considering separating if I were in his shoes.

THIS. You have a relationship with a good woman that just didn't want you to think the worst of her when she finally found the person (YOU) she wanted to share her life with. Lighten Up Francis! Just finding someone in this messed up world that LOVES you is a MAJOR accomplishment.

The past is the past. Forgive and move on and let her off the hook. You won't be sorry.

She told you, you heard what you wanted to at the time.  You needed to hear it that way to make it more palatable to you and because you were still wearing the dating glasses.  Now that the glasses have come off and she's talking about it again, you're hearing the truth instead of the truth you wanted to hear the first time.   That's my take on it anyway.

She doesn't respect you.  She tolerates you.  

She views you as weak and feckless...she knows she has the power and that you will never do anything about it.  

This will not end well.  

She will end up ridiculing you over it and further establishing who is boss in the relationship.  

There is no easy way to say this...but the one that loves the least, controls the most.  The one willing to walk out is the boss...that sounds like her...not you.

As you are the weaker end of the relationship, you will take whatever you are given and STFU...unless you become the one willing to burn it all down and walk out.

Good luck.  You will need it.

I would be less concerned about her painting herself in a favorable light while dating than her current attitude toward being caught in the falsehood.

It is terribly common if not near the norm for people to paint themselves in the best light while dating - especially on touchy subjects.

That she maintained the charade for so long and her response now is problematic.

Outside of your faith's parameters, 5 partners is not a lot - but I completely understand why you feel misled, because you were.

Do try to keep this issue in perspective of the balance of your relationship.

ETA: Fed's response above may well be on the mark as to her current attitude on the subject.

She has admitted her past dishonesty. She needs to take the initiative to build trust so both of you can move forward in your relationship.

Here's my take on it...

Part of her wanted to have a sexual relationship with the previous guy but religious convictions made her feel guilty about it.

After much pressure from him, she consented to doing it, but felt guilty about it at the time and even afterwards.

I can easily see how a well-meaning person with strong religious convictions would describe that as "non-consensual" even though he didn't necessarily "force" her into having sex.

He may have pressured her into doing what part of her wanted to do.

Reconciling those conflicting emotions is more than most folks can handle.

I'm going to post this link at the risk of offending thin skinned men and women...  I'm not saying I fully agree with it and there are places where it is over the top...too extreme...but there is a lot of truth to it as well.  It addresses this exact situation that the OP is in.  

YMMV

http://therationalmale.com/category/iron-rules/

Good luck OP.  I hope it works out for you.  

On the plus side, at least your eyes are now opened and you see your relationship for what it really is, not just what you thought it was.

Truth is often learned through pain.  Learn it quickly and it hurts less.  

Not that it means anything...  But I'm impressed as heck with Snow's insight and her opinions in this thread.  I also happen to agree with her, and think the OP should consider her advice.  

Yes..  forgiveness should be offered, just as soon as your wife admits her deception.  It's clear she tried to cover over her previous multiple sexual partners.  Using a "catch all" by saying that "I'm not a virgin" isn't a replacement for disclosing her level of sexual experience.

If pornstar Nina Hartley - who has had hundreds and hundreds of sexual partners - says "I'm not a virgin"....  Is her level of experience the same as a woman who had sex once before marriage?  I think not.  Yet both could truthfully declare "I'm not a virgin".  

Lastly, when I buy a used car, I use the vehicle mileage to help me decide whether or not I will purchase it.  If the dealer misrepresented the mileage to me, and I found out later that the reported miles weren't truthful, I'd be angry at the deception!   Your indignation is warranted, imho.  

So you found out that she isn't perfect?
Your probably not perfect either.

Cut her some slack. Each person will interpret the same conversation differently depending on thousands of variables. You can't expect her to be on target with everything you discuss throughout your life and then hold her accountable. I understand that was something that you held very important to you, don't expect her to have the same level of passion for everything you do. Her level of thought process is directly related to how much SHE is vested in the same conversation. It might not have been as important to her as it was to you. You get my drift?
I hope you can move on from this...I found out later that my girl had slept with a member of a race that I do not particularly like to associate with...Remember, It can always be worse....
PS...Married for 10 years now..together for 17

Thank you all again for taking the time to read and respond.  Snow, thank you very much for your insights on this, it is greatly appreciated.  I have spoken with my wife more regarding my feelings and we both agree that counseling is a good idea.

You're comparing a lady who banged a guy in college, when OP wasn't around at all, to a porn star?

Marrying somebody is not buying a used car.

Get
over
it.  

Since it is obvious you want to get religion-ey about it, marriage is a forever thing and you have to forgive and move on.

Put some extra money in the collection basket on Sunday.  That solves all problems.

You're dead-on here.  If, as the OP wrote that his wife said, there was no difference between one time and a hundred, why didn't she tell him the truth?  In my mind, the issue is not how many men the OP's wife was with or how many times, if OP's wife was firmly committed to a monogamous relationship with the OP.  It's that she deceived him about the truth.



Agree again here.  In fact, depending on the specifics of the pre-marital conversations, it sounds like grounds for a decree of nullity.  That said, OP, if you love your wife and you believe that she has been trustworthy for the duration of your relationship, go get some counseling from a pro-marriage counselor who can help teach you and your wife how to rebuild that marital trust.  

Two big red flags here, well, one huge red flag.



The first is, of course, the issue of honesty.  That one will take some working out but probably could be worked out, IF both are operating on good faith and want to work it out.  I can possibly understand how both could have misunderstood the other at the start (OP thinking he had the whole story, wife thinking OP wasn't asking for the whole story).  It's a major issue, but still.



Bigger question for me is why the wife feels unilaterally compelled to be revisiting the issue here and now.  I know now I'm the one who doesn't have the whole story, but what I'm reading is that she's suddenly thinking about this other relationship, in which she may or may not have been raped, but is certainly happy to let OP conclude that she was raped, despite not telling him the whole story of that or her other relationships.  Moreover, she is thinking about this other relationship apparently immediately after having intercourse with the OP.  That's...disconcerting.



OP, you may consider divorce as being off the table, but frankly I think you're in a high-risk situation with someone you can't fully trust and whose motivations and morals you don't fully understand.  Whatever you decide to do, watch your back.  Divorce may not be the worst thing that could happen to you.

She is a sinner just like you.

Christ died for her as much as you.

Did he forgive her as much as he forgave you?



Let it go

First step in forgiveness is repentance...

Easier said than done, but this.  She's the mother of your children.  Get over it and love her like Christ loves his church.

Really?  I specifically posted this in the religious forum to avoid this kind of thing.  I am well aware I need to get over it, emphasis on I.  I posted because I was and am looking for advice on how to move forward and just to get things off my chest.

That is the plan... I am not going to let this break up my marriage.

It sounds like you're committed, but if she isn't, you can't save your marriage. Being dishonest and rebelling against one's husband is being unfaithful. Unfaithfulness is much more than sleeping around (which she isn't doing), it's not keeping the faith in your marriage. I'm not saying you're doomed or she's evil or anything, just that if this causes your marriage to fail, it's not on you.

I am sorry but I am not religious and commenting in your forum/thread. But it's just sex. your life and marriage is about all the good times, being strong when the other is week and standing together when SHTF. It's about life the good the bad and the ugly. Stop worrying about the minutes, because that is all sex really is, brief moments. Don't get me wrong there really good moments . But there nothing compared to everything ells your life with her is. So who cares. Would you give up your life over minutes of pleasure. If not then don't waste the everything over it. All the other pleasure of love, life and knowing she has your back is far more then the other dude will ever have. What you have with her is something he never had and will never have. sex is nothing, it's something everyone can have and do. A true life with a true love is not something everyone gets. Look around and you will see it's something allot of people will never have and something they will know.
Cliff notes:
I don't know why sex is such a big deal. Quite honestly if she went and got a massage would it bother you? I hate to make it that simple but it really is. Look at her smile when she sees you that is the love and life. Sex is nothing.
sorry about spelling/grammar errors ( i have dyslexia )

Wise words Big Easy. They should both talk and she should apologize then they should figure out how to proceed with their future

what can I add?

been married 49 years; Catholic; had been (retired) a lawyer who handled hundreds of divorces (no-fault), contested, trials, etc. and counselled many a soul.

your marriage has two huge components: the civil and the religious.

the civil binds you to support your wife and children, pay necessary expenses, blah-blah.

the religious is a three-party deal: you, your wife, and God. (this 3rd party is often overlooked)

here's what you vowed:



so what, IMHO, you're dealing with here appears to be candor, honesty, forthrightness, and trust. why your wife had not disclosed these items earlier is beyond me. I have learned that the human mind is the most complex piece of machinery on earth. who knows how it works? it baffles me--all I can do is deal with objective reality. way too many "what ifs" in a situation like yours.

but, and I can tell you this, many of my old clients have told only me "secrets" that they eventually took to the grave with them--their spouse and children never had a clue. and some of these things were awful--make your hair stand on end..  but, their marriages and families survived--some even prospered. and I cannot judge these human beings. we are all fallible and prone to sin.

consider the "civil" route and remedies? divorce, separation, annulment? no, I would not. you will trade one bag of known grief (which you can deal with) for a whole lot more bags of grief (which are very hard to control--if at all--with both intended and unintended consequences.) this is what the world terms "justice." it is very harsh.

the Priest who married me almost 50 years ago, softly spoke this to us both before the service was over: "Now your joys will be doubled, and your sorrows halved." building on that, I have always adopted the "I take at least 51% of the grief and pain in our marriage, since a 50/50 deal is always a stand-off and won't accomplish much." take the pain, take that 51%. talk it out, work it out, love it out. be the man Jesus made you to be--a forgiving man--just as He was. God offers mercy, not judgment and condemnation. what you deal out will come back to you one way or another.

other than what you'be brought up, you seem to have a great family. a nuclear family a lot of people really wish for. look--think of your family like the old science class image of an atom: you and your wife are the "nucleus" and the kids are happily spinning 'round the center. but now, the "nucleus" gets a little unstable because of adding/subtracting tiny bits. can the whole deal "explode?" sure. can it "stabilize" and continue on, sure.

it's in your hands now--no one else. don't let it explode, fly to pieces, and cease to exist. bind it together, heal it, make it what is should be. that's our job as men.

Great move. This is exactly the situation to add competent 3rd party help.

 
She's right. ^^^

She didn't lie, but you probably didn't ask the right questions to answer your questions.  You, essentially, assumed she was raped (it seems).

To me, it sounds like you need to figure out how to deal all with yourself. You can and should discuss it, but I don't think its fair she should be blamed if you didn't ask for details.

Forgiveness is easy to preach but hard to do.  Happy Easter.

Sir,

You and your wife our in our prayers first and foremost. If I am reading this right, you are feeling betrayed that she wasn't forth coming about all her sexual relationships.

"university's Catholic organization and the person she lost her virginity to was part of a Catholic outreach ministry."

It may have been consensual but he was a person of trust and probably power and manipulation where involved. I am going to leave it there but that has a tendency to mess with a persons mind regardless of consent.  Can you imagine what that did to her self esteem. She saw herself as chaste, someone she trusts takes advantage of young dumb and naive?



Then the perfect man comes along. Someone she feels a deep connection too and she falls in love but has shame from the past. The risk was exactly this. But you allowed her to regain who she really was called to be. You through Christ did that.



I will say this. More than likely she has gone to reconciliation. More than likely you have influenced her to become better, as a person, spiritually, as a spouse etc. More than likely she helps you as well.

If our Lord could forgive her.... who are you not too? Get some counseling so you can build some trust and help with what you are feeling.



Blessings.

1. Growing up in certain church circles, pre marital sex is very shameful and there is a lot of guilt. She might have just now after all this time felt some release. I'm not saying I completely agree with what she did. But I can understand where she is coming from.

2. If you knew this info when you were dating would you have still been with her? All those years, children, memories, are they cheapened now?

Snow is spot on correct.

This is not just about the dishonesty.  It is disrespect.  It is how she views her husband and their relationship.

The confessional is pretty useful for getting your angst out.  Just pop in and confess your feelings of anger toward you wife. You may be satisfied or have the answer your seeking.

I would bet that the parties here advocating taking a walk and the parties disdaining the religious aspects of this marriage have a failed marriage in their history. Those advocating forgiveness and staying in, do not.



Just a wager I'd be willing to make.

Has she asked to be forgiven?  Does she see what she did as dishonest, condescending, and disrespectful?  

What you advocate is a two way street.  If done one way, it is a recipe for reinforcing her disrespect and subsequent views of her husband as willing to accept being treated in that manner with more to follow.

YMMV...but being lied to and just accepting it under the guise of "forgiveness" is a sure way to end up encouraging that behavior.

Whatever she has done she has not destroyed the marriage. In a divorce the family is definitely destroyed. Sometimes life is suffering and less selfishness for the family unit.
I'm not standing up for anybody but the kid.

It's not about what she did. Everything is forgivable. It's about what she's currently doing, which most assuredly does destroy marriages.

Would you have continued to see her having known she had had more than one sexual partner other than you?

Deleted

I'm wary of those people.

My wife went for counseling after her dad died and she had some trouble with grief. At her last appointment I was invited to come, under the pretext of strategies to help my wife going forward.

Instead I was ambushed with how horrible a husband I was and how horrible I was to my wife and how if we didn't sign up for counseling now and forever our marriage would fall apart and we'd both die cold and alone. Mostly me. Because, as the lady said, "all marriages need counseling".

I was shocked, my wife was shocked, we left and never went back.  I'm pretty sure she saw us mostly a paycheck, with our mental well being a secondary consideration. Sometimes I think they cause more problems to make sure the checks keep coming.

*shrug*