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Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:14:38 PM EDT
[#1]
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I'm not big on that terminology.  And let me be clear, I'm not one of those people who says that if you are Roman Catholic you are not saved.  I don't believe that.  I am not Catholic and never have been. But I have read the CCC and have asked friends who are Catholic, and people on here questions about the RCC.  Maybe what I have learned is incorrect.  If that is true, and I don't understand it, I am man enough to say I'm wrong.  I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  Am I correct in this? Must someone be baptized to be saved? Must I believe in the immaculate conception to be saved? Can someone lose their salvation?
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You have not read the CCC. Nearly ever canard and strawman you have presented is covered in depth.

Is bearing false witness not covered in your version of the Bible?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:16:53 PM EDT
[#2]
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I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  
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I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  


No. We are saved by faith in Christ, Whose free gift of salvation is unmerited and cannot be "won" under any circumstances.

That said, it is not enough to simply believe. One must LIVE their faith, for faith without works is dead.

Remember, Satan and his angels believe, in fact KNOW, that Christ is the Messiah. A hell of a lot of good it did and does them...

Must someone be baptized to be saved?


"Unless someone be born again OF WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Spoken by Christ Himself.

What the Church teaches is that we are restricted by the Sacraments (in this case, Baptism), but Christ is not. He can save whoever He wishes.

So if a child dies before baptism, the Church is hopeful of salvation, but if a person claims to be Christian but is not baptized by their own choice, they are in peril.

Must I believe in the immaculate conception to be saved?


From one standpoint, no. However, the Church (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and supported by Scripture and Sacred Tradition going back directly to the Apostles) has instantly taught that doctrine, and to reject it is to disobey the Church, which is a sin.

Can someone lose their salvation?


Yes. All they need to do is give it away via serious sin, otherwise there would be no point to working out your salvation in fear, as taught by Paul.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:20:29 PM EDT
[#3]
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You have not read the CCC. Nearly ever canard and strawman you have presented is covered in depth.
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I'm not big on that terminology.  And let me be clear, I'm not one of those people who says that if you are Roman Catholic you are not saved.  I don't believe that.  I am not Catholic and never have been. But I have read the CCC and have asked friends who are Catholic, and people on here questions about the RCC.  Maybe what I have learned is incorrect.  If that is true, and I don't understand it, I am man enough to say I'm wrong.  I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  Am I correct in this? Must someone be baptized to be saved? Must I believe in the immaculate conception to be saved? Can someone lose their salvation?


You have not read the CCC. Nearly ever canard and strawman you have presented is covered in depth.


Indeed they are, and with more references to Scripture than any "Bible Christian" has ever dared to read and actually understand...
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:26:27 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


You have not read the CCC. Nearly ever canard and strawman you have presented is covered in depth.

Is bearing false witness not covered in your version of the Bible?
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Quoted:
I'm not big on that terminology.  And let me be clear, I'm not one of those people who says that if you are Roman Catholic you are not saved.  I don't believe that.  I am not Catholic and never have been. But I have read the CCC and have asked friends who are Catholic, and people on here questions about the RCC.  Maybe what I have learned is incorrect.  If that is true, and I don't understand it, I am man enough to say I'm wrong.  I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  Am I correct in this? Must someone be baptized to be saved? Must I believe in the immaculate conception to be saved? Can someone lose their salvation?


You have not read the CCC. Nearly ever canard and strawman you have presented is covered in depth.

Is bearing false witness not covered in your version of the Bible?


Yes I have read it.  Your sarcasm is telling.  Where have i borne false witness? I started by saying that I may be wrong, then asked questions.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:32:04 PM EDT
[#5]
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No. We are saved by faith in Christ, Whose free gift of salvation is unmerited and cannot be "won" under any circumstances.

That said, it is not enough to simply believe. One must LIVE their faith, for faith without works is dead.

Remember, Satan and his angels believe, in fact KNOW, that Christ is the Messiah. A hell of a lot of good it did and does them...



"Unless someone be born again OF WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Spoken by Christ Himself.

What the Church teaches is that we are restricted by the Sacraments (in this case, Baptism), but Christ is not. He can save whoever He wishes.

So if a child dies before baptism, the Church is hopeful of salvation, but if a person claims to be Christian but is not baptized by their own choice, they are in peril.



From one standpoint, no. However, the Church (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and supported by Scripture and Sacred Tradition going back directly to the Apostles) has instantly taught that doctrine, and to reject it is to disobey the Church, which is a sin.



Yes. All they need to do is give it away via serious sin, otherwise there would be no point to working out your salvation in fear, as taught by Paul.
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I was also under the impression that the RCC says we are saved by faith and works.  


No. We are saved by faith in Christ, Whose free gift of salvation is unmerited and cannot be "won" under any circumstances.

That said, it is not enough to simply believe. One must LIVE their faith, for faith without works is dead.

Remember, Satan and his angels believe, in fact KNOW, that Christ is the Messiah. A hell of a lot of good it did and does them...

Must someone be baptized to be saved?


"Unless someone be born again OF WATER and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Spoken by Christ Himself.

What the Church teaches is that we are restricted by the Sacraments (in this case, Baptism), but Christ is not. He can save whoever He wishes.

So if a child dies before baptism, the Church is hopeful of salvation, but if a person claims to be Christian but is not baptized by their own choice, they are in peril.

Must I believe in the immaculate conception to be saved?


From one standpoint, no. However, the Church (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and supported by Scripture and Sacred Tradition going back directly to the Apostles) has instantly taught that doctrine, and to reject it is to disobey the Church, which is a sin.

Can someone lose their salvation?


Yes. All they need to do is give it away via serious sin, otherwise there would be no point to working out your salvation in fear, as taught by Paul.


I appreciate the time you took to respond to those questions. And the attitude with which you answered them.
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 1:49:40 PM EDT
[#6]
You are most welcome.

With all sincerity, I invite you to (re)read the CCC on these matters. It's all in there, with references to all the applicable Scriptures.

Also, and this was one of the telling things for me, think that when Jesus ascended, he didn't leave us with a book. He left us with a CHURCH headed by Peter and the Apostles, and later added to by Christ Himself when He chose Paul.

One of the things that hit me hardest when I began to look at what the CC ACTUALLY teaches was that, as the Body of Christ on Earth, and embued with His authority by His own words, the Church must be submitted to as an act of obedience and faith. Period.

When I realized this, I saw for the first time the supreme arrogance I had been exhibiting whenever I placed myself as the arbiter of what Scripture said, whether or not I thought the Holy Spirit was with me. Who was I to place myself in such a position when Christ so clearly set it up with Peter as the leader and the Apostles as the Bishops, and when they, in turn, passed that authority down through the ages via the Church?

I remember feeling so sad, regretful, and inexcusably convicted when I realized my rebellion and all it meant. Then, as time passed and I learned more and more, I realized just how baseless the accusations against the CC really are.

I despise being made a fool of, and that is how I feel about my time as a "Bible Christian" who thought the CC had lost its way. How conceited to think I knew more than the Church!

Now I am humbly and eternally grateful that I have found the Truth, no matter how I got here. I'm nowhere near a perfect Catholic. Heck, I'll be the guy who shuts out the lights in Purgatory, but I am now truly Home, in my Lord's true Church, and He is the one who brought me back. I have no words to express that gratitude...
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:06:45 PM EDT
[#7]
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Can someone lose their salvation?
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Can one have free will if one is unable to reject salvation?
Link Posted: 11/10/2015 2:17:28 PM EDT
[#8]
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Can one have free will if one is unable to reject salvation?
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Can someone lose their salvation?


Can one have free will if one is unable to reject salvation?


You will need to rephrase your question if I am not giving the answer you want.

Yes.

Give me your definition of free will.  There is more than one type.
Link Posted: 11/11/2015 8:08:54 PM EDT
[#9]
"The Sabbath is Saturday (Latin: Sabbatum). The Lord's Day is Sunday (Latin: Dies Dominica). Christians have set aside the Lord's Day for gathering together and breaking bread since the days of Acts. This is documented in that there Bible of yours. I could cite Catholic "dogma" that goes into why, but the fact stands for itself. (Acts 20:7)

As for eating swine, "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean."

As for holidays - I could see where you'd have a beef if you reject Church Authority - but you have no scriptural basis for rejecting Church authority. Co-opting pagan celebration to honor God is not as sinister as you make it out to be.

As for graven images - by definition, a "graven image" is an image used for worship. Christians use images for reminders or to tell stories - not to worship. Bowing is not a form of worship - that's just a sign of respect (not worship) - and not to the statue itself, but to the person it represents. Just more nonsense. In Biblical times, people bowed to elders, leaders, etc. In the Western world, handshakes have evolved to replace much of that, but with education and perspective you will quickly figure out a bow is not "worship." People "worshiped" by offering sacrifices to gods. Back in the day, they often crafted images of those gods out of gold or stone or what not. You may recall the story of the Golden Calf.  THAT was a graven image."


There were too many quotes to continue.

The Sabbath is eternal, even to a thousand generations. The Day of the Lord in no way implies Sunday in the Bible. It is when He returns to rule and reign.
Acts 20:7 occurred after Sabbath in the evening, what we would call Saturday evening, but to the Hebrews it would be the beginning of the 1st day. That is when they typically have their meal after Sabbath services, while continuing their discussions.
Also, if you'll notice before that in Acts 20, they kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Even years after the death, burial and resurrection of our Messiah, the Disciples kept Sabbath, and our Father's set apart days, with no mention of keeping days that are accepted as holy now, which are in alignment with pagan days. Our Father hates the mixing of the Holy with the profane.
God never made swine clean. Food is clearly defined in Leviticus. God never changes. Peter even said that he doesn't eat anything unclean.

Isaiah 66 is prophetic of the end times.

16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 3:09:57 AM EDT
[#10]
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Either the entire word of God is true or it's not.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God.

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From an earlier thread today (in GD)  Someone claimed to be a Christian yet believed in evolution.

Stated that the creation story isn't literal but more of an allegory.

As a Christian I have a huge problem with this. I believe the bible as written.

I believe that Christ is God & that he came to earth as a man, died on the cross as an atonement for sin,
was entombed & rose again. I believe this as it is written.

I also believe that creation happened as written.

If one only believes that certain parts of the bible are true, then exactly what parts are? Do we all get to pick
the parts that we like? The ones that don't challenge us?

Maybe we throw out the parts about lust, greed, gluttony, envy, and just stick with the biggies like murder?
Either it's all true or it's not.


I'm just venting here, but it really irks me to hear someone claim to be a Christian and take
that position

You have your interpretation.  They have theirs.

You don't know with certainty that you are right any more than they do.

Do you believe in a god who would punish people for eternity for not believing the correct thing about genesis?

If not, why not just let them believe as they do and find out who, if any, was right when you die?
 


Either the entire word of God is true or it's not.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God".

So to answer your question Yes. Either it's true or you don't believe God.




Jonah 1:17
“Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.”

Jonah 2
Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
7 When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto thee, into thine holy temple.
8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
10 And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

So you believe this to be a literal account of what happened to Jonah?

You believe that a Christian who does not take it a literal does not believe in God?
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