This will be long, so eject if you like.  You were warned.

Grew up in the church.  Accepted Christ as a kid.  Made a pretty serious re-dedication as a senior in high school.  I've worked hard all through my 20s and 30s to be a good Christian and have had my share of spiritual highs.  At times I've felt really close to God.  I'm now in my early 40s, and I feel like it's all coming unraveled.  In some ways, it needs to.  I understand better than ever, that all my attempts to be a good Christian have created a very warped view of God and almost no real relationship with Jesus.  I've been trying to earn it and you can't.  I'm clinging to the hope that what is happening is God is deconstructing my false views of Himself in order to replace those with who He really is.  But i'm teetering on the knife's edge.

Here's what has utterly shipwrecked me:  I now understand that much of what I've "believed" is really somebody else's faith.  Good intellectual and theological arguements that hold up really well when you are surrounded by people who believe the same things.  That problem is compounded more each day by a growing belief that the scientific explanations for the age of the earth, evolution, etc. make more sense to me than the Biblical answers I've been given.  I'm left with the pieces of a good Christian life lying on the floor.  I don;t really, intimately know Jesus.  I don;t really know for sure that you can know God.  I'm no longer convinced utterly that I am saved.

Here's what makes this so painful.  For the better part of a year, I have been begging God to reveal Himself to me.  I've said countless sinner's prayers.  I keep waiting for some transcendent moment where the power of God floods over me and I am awakened to a true faith and belief that is without reproach.  I want that more than anything in the world, but He hasn't answered.  Silence.  Is He there?  

I'm losing my mind...and maybe the last of my faith.  I WANT to believe.  I WANT to live a life that honors Him.  I WANT to see others/ my kids come to faith...but there's just nothing much there when I close my eyes.  I can say this to strangers alot easier than people who know me because so many are convinced I',m this great man of faith that I am not.  I'm tired of pretending.

I'm on a boy scout campout at the moment, but I will try to answer you tomorrow night when I'm home.  Just posting this so you know we aren't ignoring you.

Wow...I thought I was the only one that felt that way.

Yeah, the wheels came off my spiritual life too. I find much of what I've been taught over the years has little value. I had a deep personal crisis where god didn't show up. Not a word, not a peep from god. I sat in church for months in tears and no one had an answer for me. I waited for him to show up, to be there in my hour of need, but no answer. Silence not solace. I have since pulled myself back together and carried on by myself.

Does he exist? Is he real? I can't tell you. There is a pattern and order to life, but is it Jesus? I couldn't tell you. I had a mother who was a missionary to Zambia. She would go on about the prophecies about her ministry from other people. Most of them didn't come true. I can't say all because I don't know. I married a Christian woman, but she isn't much of an example of living the life even though she thinks she is. She uses god and jesus as a majic word that solves all problems.

I don't have the answers. I have theories about religion and people drawn to it. My life is still a work in progress and my opinions are subject to change based on new evidence. I won't speak out against religion in general, only specific instances, and only when asked. Islam is another matter entirely, but that is a different thread altogether.

I hope you find the answers you seek.

Mother Teresa had a crisis of faith for many years. I try to remember that when my faith wavers.

It may be helpful to stop considering things in an either/or fashion. It is not either God or science. It is not wither works or faith. The answers are in considering life as both/and endeavors. Don't get sucked in by scientism. It is woefully incomplete.

Brother, I am so sorry to hear that you're going through this. It sounds like your faith is being tested. I see that you have been praying to the Father, but what about to Jesus? He makes intercession for us to the Father. Jesus is Prophet, Priest, and King. Ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit, as well. In an age of scientific advancement such as we have, it can sometimes be challenging and difficult. What specifically is causing you to doubt?

Edit: I see it's mainly about the age of the Earth and evolution. Both of these things are historical in nature. Science is NOT a very effective tool for looking backwards through time for explanations. The further back you go, the weaker science gets. For instance, it might be effective for determining causes of things that happened last week, month, or even year, but once you start talking about thousands of years, it becomes virtually useless. Science is PREDICTIVE by its very nature. It relies on the testing of hypotheses to arrive at predictable results. If you cannot predict and then TEST that prediction, you cannot draw historical conclusions with any degree of certainty. It is very difficult to look at evidence over the span of 1000 years and deduce exactly what transpired. The best you can do is say what MIGHT have happened, and insure that your theory fits the available evidence. This is NOT the same thing as proving it beyond all doubt. It is a supposition, an educated guess according to the best available evidence. The Big Bang? A theory. Macro-evolution that includes transmutation? A theory. The Bermuda Triangle? A theory.

One other point here about science. A lot of science relies on well-known constants: speed of light, atomic decay rates, distribution of specific elements within types of matter, etc. The problem is that we have only been observing and measuring these things for a very short time in the grand scheme of things. It is absolutely impossible to know with certainty that these things do not vary over long enough time periods. You cannot take such a small sample size and extrapolate it ad infinitum.

I am not anti-science. It is a wonderful tool but it has limitations. The problem I have is when people ignore or refuse to admit those limitations.

That's very common. I'm glad you see it. Too many people just sit back and expect others to spoon feed them  God. You've been bumped out of that flight and now have to do some work of your own.

I know it's not your tradition, but in the Orthodox church salvation is seen as both the journey and the destination.

I hope this helps.

 
Just my $.0.02:

1. God is not a feeling. By making Him an emotion, we make Him something we put "a quarter into" in order to get a fix, and God becomes a piece of candy or an amusement; we end up cheapening God in the process. This was the entire point of the Book of Job, so don't feel bad about doing it, we all have done it.

Emotions are fleeting and, "the heart is deceitful above all things". Hyper-charismatic churches and the faith healers have twisted real faith and made it into a circus.

2. There is nothing wrong with looking at science, there are some very good websites and resources by believing scientists, like this this and much of this. Also check out books by Hugh Ross, and this YouTube Channel. BTW, Old Earth Creationism is a valid theory, although IMO, the reality is neither and yet both Young Earth and Old Earth.

3. In my personal experience, God will often leave you to your doubts in order to cause you to seek Him more. Not in pursuit of an emotional fix, but to get us to take the next level of personal development. For me it has been reading and listening to good teachers, such as Jacob Prasch, James White, AW Tozer, Chuck Smith, Charles Spurgeon, David Hocking, Etc., or stepping up to some actual education like I am perusing now. The people that set-up the BLB have some free courses here.

4. One of the toughest things to do for me is to let go of my ideas that I have to somehow do or earn something. We are already given a free gift, if we just accept it. The doors to our prison have been thrown open, but we often are so blind and stubborn that won't walk out of them. Your slavery was bought and paid for, now rest easy and read Romans, Galatians and/or Hebrews.

5. BTW, "the sinner's prayer" is a little overrated. It's not a condition of the lips, but of the heart. My favorite passage in the Bible is Luke 7:36-50, where the sinful woman did not say a word, did not get dunked in water, yet was told by Jesus that her faith saved her, and was granted peace. It was the condition of her heart that did it, nothing else (great old Christian Alt.Music song about it too). Also, look at Luke 18:9-17. God is about the heart, not anything else.

It seems your heart is in the right place, but you are letting a lot get in the way...and it may be that God wants you to take the next step. I've been there; I like all the intellectual arguments also, but when it comes down to it we can't let those dictate our relationship, but instead let our relationship be first.

BTW, one more scripture...the Song of Solomon, there is a lot of misunderstanding as to the greater meaning of this book...which is the relationship of Christ to His "bride" the church. In SoS 1:13, myrrh is a burial ointment, one that was used on Jesus...and it is kept closest to her heart. (BTW, chapters 3 and 5 closely parallel the Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins in Matthew 25).







 

The poster above me makes good points.

OP, I wandered away from God for many years. He pulled me back to Him. He's there.

Man is separated from God because of our sin. The utmost desire of my heart is to be with God in Heaven. However, we must endure to the end.

Remember this scripture?

Matthew 24:9-14

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

This may be nothing, but how about just causally reading through the New Testament, and see if something inside of you resonates with what you are reading.

 
Old Testament is just as important as the new.

The New Testament, particularly the gospels, plainly reveal Jesus.

So does the Old.

I have a background similar to you, grew up going to church every time the doors were open, accepted Jesus as my savior and was baptized in my early teens, taught Sunday school to the younger kids for my small country church while I was a young adult.  My crisis of faith came a little earlier than yours, in my late 20's when I had the revelation that I was following a religion or "faith" of men not a god.  It seemed that everything except worshiping was a sin and made me a very guilty person when I strayed.  I too had the historical questions of age of the world and the evidence of fossils and could never resolve them.  Eventually I shed my faith alltogether because I realized that if I lived exactly the way I did (in my 20's), even as devout as I was, I would be concidered a heretic or witch at some point in previous history because of scientific truths that I held or technology that I was working with.  How could this be for a true God who's is omnipresent and has and will exist for infinity? Would the truth of what is holy and what is not change at the whim of the majority when we are supposed to be following the true god?  Although I am now an atheist I live by the teachings I learned in my formative years in the church and try to be the best man that I can be, I have a bible in my night stand which I read from time to time. You do not need a religion or faith to be a good person.

 
The Bible says no one is a good person (Ecclesiastes 7:20, Romans 3:10).


And the word "religion" is mentioned five times in the Bible, none of those mentions are positive.  

I had the same problem, more or less.  Have you read Ten Dumb Things Smart Christians Believe by Larry Osborne, and The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis?  If not, read them both IMMEDIATELY.  There's a lot of stuff sometimes that we think we SHOULD believe but can be the easy answer or the feel good answer but not the right one.  I realized recently that I am not sufficient in my own understanding and strength.  The good news here which is hard to reach but is there is that God doesn't expect you to be, either.  He seeks to replace you with Himself, for you to live as part of His body on Earth.  Sometimes the emptiness is simply that which He has already told you is dead but doesn't feel like He's filled it yet.  He wants to.  He has claimed you for His own.

It is painful to feel the need for Him but not feel His touch at the time.  I have woken up cold, frightened, and confused feeling as if I were hanging out into space, knowing that if God is not real and is not there then I must fear death which can come at any day or moment over which I have no control at all.  If He is not real, is not who He says He is, if Jesus did not truly rise from the dead to conquer death and bring us to Himself, there is nothing but black, cold, nothingness forever which awaits us at any second.  But then it hits me after a few moments that He IS everything He says He is.   Nothing else could make the world and do what He has done.  The Bible would have to be tens of thousands of coincidences, world history wouldn't have plotted its course the way it has, etc. if it isn't all true.  

He is EVERYTHING and that's exactly how I am supposed to see Him--that He alone is the hand that holds me out of the cold abyss, and His hand will never fail.  But it doesn't mean that I at times don't fail in how I feel or how I see things at the time.  And NEVER forget that God and we have an enemy that does EVERYTHING possible to try to separate us from Him.  

You're not alone.  Feel free to message me if you need to.

Catholic here.

I've always been a minority - surrounded by those who disagree/don't believe. All the cool kids didn't believe what I believed, so I grew up being very analytical about my own faith and their faith. Including their faith or trust in 'science' or philosophy or politics.

Catholic Christians accept that faith is a theological virtue - i.e. a gift from God and hence, as a supernatural habit, it is not the same thing as emotional highs or euphoric senses of being in union with God or the supernatural. Indeed, we accept that a distinction exists between 'faith' and 'belief'....and accept that one can have faith despite being wretched and awful. It's called purification, pruning, being tested, a 'dark night of the soul'. The point for those who persevere is to see what we REALLY are about. Are we Christ's disciples because of the feelings? Because it's socially popular among the cool kids? Because it'll help us get or keep a job or stay out of trouble? Because the folks are? Or because we really accept Jesus as "Lord" in heart and mind?

Jesus sent his 72 disciples to a) heal the sick, b) cast out demons and c) preach the Gospel. In Acts of the Apostles we see this same sort of thing: the apostles were always healing people, casting out demons and preaching. In the first 3 centuries of Christianity, as we read in St. Augustine's City of God, the miracles of healing and exorcism continued and it was on account of the miracles that many pagans came to accept the Gospel as probable or true.

If you want, the history of Christianity is akin of science: we have repeatable phenomena that invariably accompany Christian disciples and it includes the miraculous and the supernatural in addition to the Biblical doctrine. The saints and the mystics matter on the positive side just as the scandalous, egregiously evil false brothers matter on the negative side.... extraordinary virtue predisposes people to consider the possibility that this Gospel might be true after all, just as extraordinary vice predisposes the scandalized to consider that the Gospel is all just a bunch of BS, some sort of con game....

This is why it's important to be well read and seek edification rather than a diet of nothing but depressing news etc. Or think of it as being balanced in inputs as opposed to biased.

The struggle you are in is nothing new - saints have faced this for 2000 years. And they have written copiously about it. I encourage you to read some of the early Church fathers and the works of some of the medieval saints about faith and doubt.

There is nothing in Christianity that is anti-science (inasmuch as we created the scientific method and our theology undergirds the modern scientific endeavor).

Let's repeat that: only our theology grounds the scientific method because only our theology posits that the entire universe is intelligible and thus study-able, know-able, classify-able.... God for us is described as "Word"... not sound, not raw power, not arbitrary will.... but the "Word" through whom all was created.

Thus there is no threat to the Christian revelation in the proper sciences. This is entirely distinct from SOME SCIENTISTS who may be rabid atheists. But their philosophy isn't "science".

What I think is part of the problem is some Christians put way too much emphasis on relatively minor and historically unimportant theological conjectures (how old the earth is) when this never was a main point of the Gospel message. It was never affirmed as necessary for salvation to think the earth was only 6,000 years old.

Nor was it ever considered essential to think the earth was the literal physical center of the universe. Historic, global Christianity has considered many doctrines essential to defend but much of the ones commonly raised by atheists are not them.

I find it really amazing that the faith vs. science debate rages over the age of the earth or cosmology and not about the metaphysical claims of Christianity with respect to sin, human nature, God's nature, and the Incarnation of the Word, the Eucharist, and the Resurrection of Jesus' body. Those are the essentials of the faith and yet one hardly ever sees any crisis about them while so many agonize over the relatively peripheral issues.

Ok.  Home now.  I have had times in my life that most people would wonder if God is there or has turned His back.  I hate them.  Cause usually I am sucking at life.  However, even when I don't feel God close, I know He is in charge.  I mentioned this in another thread.  Years ago I was in Mexico for work.  Wife was pregnant with a 3 yo at home.  She was having problems.  I got home late that night and 4 hours later we lost the baby.  Tore us up.  I had to take my unborn child to the hospital the next day in a box, so they could look, while keeping my wife sane and acting like nothing was up to my 3 yo.  I was broken.  But I kept faith.  I saw nothing positive there , but I kept faith because everything works to His will.  Looking back, I see that I was blessed to be able to get home for her before this happened. ..I see that I can help others who go through things like that..  God is here with us.  Sometimes we don't see Him, other times we don't see the Forrest for the trees.  Science doesn't bother me a bit or shake my faith.  I can find as many scientist contradicting any new revelation someone comes out with.  The Bible has been around for much longer than the theories and no matter what people claim, no one can prove even the smallest part false.  Hang in there and know we are praying for you.

Good theological and intellectual arguments hold up well no matter the audience.

I recommend William Lane Craig and J Warner Wallace. Both have excellent books and podcasts.

Yesterday there was a guy at my church that, 7 years ago,  took a .45 round to the thoracic cavity, along with 4 other rounds,  and lived. Did he feel like God was with him at the time? While in all that pain? Probably not....but God was nonetheless.

try this read about Job. And we think WE have it bad?



...more:



Into The Whirlwind

FWIW, I am a Catholic also.

Don't pretend.  I went through the same thing and became an open atheist.

And now you spend your time on Arfcom trying to justify your unbelief with so much fervor it looks like belief.

 

Know the feeling.





It is hard to give up on the things that were comforting and made you feel good for a long, long time.  I know the disappointment of finding only unsatisfying answers and explanations for things within your faith. I know the feeling of wanting to believe.





That said, you have to realize that wanting something to be true, and it actually being true are two different things, and you need to be intellectually honest with yourself when you go out looking for "truth" or else you'll end right back where you are when your shotty justifications only placate you temporarily (yep, ask me how I know).





Millions of people have gone through the processes you are describing, and all the fears and doubts you are having are completely normal.





About the best thing you can do is try to find online other people who've lost their religion and see how they respond to similar doubts and questions that you have in your mind. Why do this? Well, its to ensure you explore both sides of the fence. If you pretend like losing your religion isn't an option, and ignore it, you'll keep getting blindsided by doubt.  Better to hear the non-believer side and decide that it is not very compelling than to pretend it doesn't exist.





And no, I'm not talking about people who spend their time attacking religion, I'm talking about people who answer questions that they themselves had as a deconverting believer.  They'll at least give you their perspective.





Also, don't let anyone tell you that if you are doubting now you never were truly a believer.  Those people don't have a clue.





In the end, be honest with yourself, and make sure whatever you end up believing, that it is supported with solid reasoning.  If not, you'll end up back at this same point in 10 years saying "wow, how did I ever think that was a good idea?"

 

And?



Are you trying to cause an argument in the religion forum?



Don't you think its possible for people who've went through a similar situation to try to help someone move past and issue they are having?



The fact is most atheists were religious at some point, and whatever the OP ends up believing, he should know there are millions who have went through exactly what he is going through.



Some of them found their religion again.

Some of them found a different religion.

Some of them lost all religion.



Why freak out about having all sides in this discussion, which afteral is supposed, to be helping someone examine the world in a way that will lead them to beliefs that will ultimately be intellectually satisfying to them?



Can we save the purse swinging for the next GD thread, which I'm sure will come along very soon?



 

From what I know of Craig, his arguments only hold up with people who haven't examined them very well.





Can't say anything about Wallace. Never heard of him.



Point being, OP, whenever anyone gives you a source, check into it. Then try to find well reasoned opposition (no, not the "this person is stupid" opposition), and decide for yourself which seems more reasonable.





 

 
You missed my point, which is that even people who proclaim unbelief still believe in their heart. Which is why they must kill that belief vicariously through others. In that sense, you aren't helping people, you're attempting to help yourself bury your own belief.  


No one rails against belief in what they think is false like an atheist trying to kill God. Or a non-Christian trying to kill Christianity.


As far as "religion", the word is mentioned five times in the New Testament, and none of those mentions are positive. That should tell you something.

I am not an expert by any means, but this is me-

Many years ago I found that my faith was solid but that I had real issues with religion and some overtly religious people.  

I discovered that I really didn't need people or their verson of religion in order to have faith.  

I have my bible.  I can read.  I can research and study.  I can navigate with a "religion GPS" telling me what their version of right looks like.

Define your problem in specific terms and seperate out what is seperating you from God.  If that is your religion...then ask yourself if you truly need them in order to have faith.

It worked for me.  YMMV.

Well, that is not true. Atheists have no "belief in their heart", and your interpretation of the situation, and the motivations of atheists is just inaccurate.  Sorry to tell you, but you're wrong on this.
Beyond that, i don't think this thread is the place to argue about how what you think other people believe compares to what they actually believe.
I'm trying to help the OP find answers that not only make sense, but are intellectually satisfying and ultimately stable. He can only do this by fully exploring the issue from multiple perspectives, both arguments and responses to those arguments, not by only listening to prepackaged apologetics that supports what he wants to hear.
I'm sorry that this offends you.
 

OP I have some of the same problems as I love science and there discoveries but hate how it seems that every discovery /new theory to the scientists means there is no God. It makes me sad and I hope causes me to pray for them every time.
I will say that I didn't realize how flawed science was till I started investing money in scientific areas and lost every time because they where wrong. Not completely wrong just enough that it failed in some commercial application. My point is that its all theory. Scientist are like children that never grow up so I just try to pray for them.
It also helps that I had a NDE about 10 years ago and spent some 1 on 1 time with YAHWAH and realized that non of it matters we are here for such a short time that we should just make the best of it. It also swung my faith meter more to knowing.
My wife and I have recently started a walk through the old testament and are getting back to the roots of the church and that removes most of the conflicts that caused me to have doubts as a young man.
I believe the church which I love does a disservice to us all by keeping so much tradition that is not true and is confusing I pray that the church would audit itself and get rid of all the things of man.
You will be in our prayers.

 
I'm not offended.


And while you scoff at our book, the fact is that it has information within it that no human should have, (like recently fulfilled prophecies, esp. this one), and it says that God is obvious (Psalm 19, Romans 1). In fact, quantum mechanics have advanced such that it's unreasonable to deny God.


As far as stability, atheists have a much higher rate of suicide attempts than theists. Doesn't sound to stable to me.


I know you mentioned a Roman Catholic background in previous threads. That's a religion, of course it did nothing for you...see this little part in Colossians:


21 "Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”

22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

 
Ok, now we must know the details.

Brother, we are to live by faith.

I'm on my phone and can't make these links hot.

http://www.gotquestions.org/walk-by-faith-not-by-sight.html

http://youtu.be/or1D2x5XN5s

May I suggest you get on your knees, in a quiet place, secluded, and pour out your heart to the Lord?

He will answer.

Periods of spiritual dryness are normal.  Even Religious like Mother Theresa have experienced prolonged episodes of spiritual desolation.  Look into the spiritual exercises of St. Ignatius for insight into how to deal with such periods.  I wouldn't hold my breath expecting some sort of divine revelation that contradicts science though.

Consider that the "Biblical answers you've been given" may be false.  What faiths have harmony between their dogma/doctrine and science?  Those would be good investigate.

Suicides huh?





I'm sure you're going to link now to a study talking about having guns increases the risk of suicide.





Really, what does any of this have to do with the OP's question?





What someone wants to believe, what is convenient to believe, or what is "safer" to believe does nothing to convince anyone that said belief is actually true.





That's why the OP feels unsatisfied by typical appoligetics, because its not a choice he's making, he's in the process of being convinced one way or another.





The only fair way is to look at the argument and counter arguments from both sides, and determine for yourself which seems more reasonable.





I did this about 10 years ago.





I want the OP to make up his mind by a fair examination of the facts.





If the OP was anything like me during my deconversion, he won't be satisfied by simply reading a one sided apologetic that claims to answer all the questions. If he's curious, and intellectually honest, he'll also want to hear the rebuttal to it, and then decide for himself what makes sense and what doesn't.





I don't care what he ultimately is swayed by. I just want to make sure he doesn't fall into the trap of only looking at what he wants to believe at the moment only to end up in the exact same position 5 years from now when he learns the argument he pinned his hat on is also not very logical (which, coincidentally this is what happened to me, as I went from a catholic, to just a bible believing christian, to a deist, to a non-believer.)





He should not fall into the trap of "you must either believe this, or that, and that is terrible and horrible and bad, so your only choice is to believe this".  That's a logical fallacy when trying to convince yourself what is true and what is false.
 

Problem is, have you really made up your mind by a fair examination of the facts? We've been around and around on this in GD, and you are a very biased guy. Hence responding to facts with rhetoric in regards to the higher suicide attempts.

Given quantum mechanics and the logic of the digital universe theory, how can anyone deny there is a God? And if there is one, why are we here of he intended to ignore us? It defies reason IMO. But that's better discussed in a different thread.

For those of you that are Calvinists...

Is it possible that the OP is not one of the elect and he is beating his head against a door that will never open?

Correct.



 

According to Reformed theology, and to the Bible,
John 10 v 25-30
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

So if you believe in Reformed theology, then there are some who will not believe.  If you believe in Reformed theology you also know that ONLY God knows whom the elect are, and no man can say that another is not chosen.  So, according to Calvinism is it possible? Yes.  Will a true Calvinist tell someone they are non elect? No.  Nor will they claim to know the answer.  Some Hyper Calvinist, which is not what the Bible or Reformed theology, or John Calvin taught will say they may know.  They are wrong.
Jesus said go spread the word.  He didn't say spread it to only the elect.  Even non Calvinist say that God knows everything and always has.  So God knows if you will accept Him before you are born.  Since I think most Christians believe in Hell, and think some people go there, obviously God created people He knew would reject Him and go to Hell.  So even if you are not a Calvinist, you still have to believe in theory that it is possible someone can be beating their head against the wall.

Personally I want the OP to find his faith in Christ and I will continue to pray for him.

Doesn't that contradict the idea of total depravity though? No one can seek God on his/her own, but if they do...?

 

I was using two examples.  Calvinist and armenism.  A calvinist wouldn't say that they were truly seeking God of their own free will.  The part you quoted was me trying to explain the non calvinist view, and how someone can be beating their head and that be affirmed by a non calvinist.  Because God can create people that He knew before all of creation would reject Him.  Again, I am not saying the OP is in this predicament.   Just reasoning out the question.

Yeah I got that. I'm not trying to criticize, I'm genuinely curious.

 

You know I think that God isn't bound by man's doctrinal rules, and I don't think He rejects people who seek Him. It just seems to be a situation where Hyper-Calvanism can contradict itself (again).

Wow.  Thank you all for taking the time to respond.  My unbelief often feels like a disease that flares up and is never truly cured, but I've never felt like that meant that my unbelief was my true core faith.  Sometimes, just being honest with my feelings openly helps me re-frame my perspective, and this thread has surely done that.

Over the weekend, I was sharing some thoughts with my wife and it really does seem like I'm reaping the fruits of having a very small view of God.  The Church is well meaning, but by giving flimsy explanations and trite responses to real, difficult, and painful questions, they make God very small.  It's as if He really isn't big enough to answer life's deepest pains and questions.  

I've been trying to open my mind up to a MUCH bigger view of the God of the universe and to the evidence surrounding Christ, and it helps alot.

One other thing that has helped is to confess that I am secretly angry with God that I am getting older and many of life's possibilities have passed me by.  I feel trapped in my life, and wonder why God hasn't given me more of the things that other people have.  Nobody has to tell me how wrong that is, but I need to admit it and ask for forgiveness.  It's pretty easy to question his existence when he is not doing what you think he should for you.

Religion versus relationship.  Big difference. When we realize that our ending is God's beginning then it is a good start.  Paul said "I die daily" because it is a difference between being self centered versus Christ centered.  God gave us His Son not only for Salvation but to show us the way.  He is the Word and as a Christian, we must renew our minds to God's Word.  It's like deprogramming your mind from a lifetime of programming that is contrary to God's Word.  If you don't then you will be very frustrated and resort to religious works and you'll fall short.   Living a Spirit filled life is so important.  I speak in tongues and have used that quite extensively in my prayer life.  It is really amazing but Jesus gave us what we need to overcome.  Read about it in Acts.  When a Christian becomes born again, they receive a new spirit and everything they need to succeed as a Christian is given at that moment.  But it takes renewing of the mind to line up your soul with your born again spirit and then you'll see the manifestation in your body.  We are three part beings created in God's image just as He is a three part Triune Godhead.  There are so many distractions in this world to take our eyes off of God, that a person has to learn to be quiet with God in prayer, worship, study of His Word.  Takes discipline but the results are worth it and you don't have to be in church to do that.  My biggest goal is to fulfill God's plan for my life.  Do I know what that is at the moment?  No but I prepare by doing what I just said.  God doesn't reveal the whole plan, just one step at a time, and a person can stay stuck on one step for years.  I did but some pretty big events opened my eyes and humbled me to get on my knees and submit.  My favorite bible teachers are Smith Wigglesworth and Andrew Wommack. Learned a lot from their God given wisdom.

Hope this helps.  God bless and prayers said for that touch from Him to give you what you need.  God is great about that.  Praise His Name.

No criticism taken.
This is a little OT but.
Calvinist believe that God, by some unknown to man, reason, elected some.  We had nothing to do with this.  It was before the world was created.  He did this because even though he knew we would sin and by our own nature reject Him, he loved us So much that he wanted to save us.  Calvinist believe that the heart is wicked and no one seeks God .  That is in the bible.  So He had a plan to save His elect.  He changes our heart and we are then able to seek Him.  If He didn't do this we would follow our own free will, and reject Him.

Hyper Calvinist, believe in this same election process BUT mistakenly and grossly think that they somehow are better than non elect.  And that if God wants someone He will find them on His own.  Someone who truly follows reformed theology will be the most humble person because they understand that they had NOTHING to brag about, or to claim as worth.  God chose them due to NOTHiNG they did and only out of HIS love.

Armenians believe that God gives EVERY person a chance and ALL are able to chose Him and be saved.  
There are however some facts that we have to state.
I think that MOST Christians Armenian or Calvinist believe that God is all Knowing  and can't be surprised by anything.  So, He knew before he created everyone whether they would reject Him or Accept Him. It is kind of silly to think that God created Bob for instance and knew that Bob would reject Him, then low and behold Bob throws a kink in the works and accepts Christ and God never saw it coming.  That would mean that God is not all knowing and learns.

So if someone is on earth and dies and rejected Christ, God knew that before. He created Bob KNOWING that Bob would reject Him. But He created him anyway.
Now HOW someone becomes a part of the elect is the big debate between these two theologies,  but Bob was not elect.  So I'm saying that even if someone isn't a Calvinist, they can still believe that God created someone whom He knew would reject him .  
I guess the banging their head is a bad phrase.  To be trying and be rejected by God is not something either group would agree with.  Calvinist would say if they were seeking God, He called them, Armenians would say if he were seeking God, God would accept him.  Both would say if you are not truly seeking God, you won't find Him.  And some can do what they think is seeking God, but in reality be seeking something else.

I hope I have explained this.  I am not pushing one way or the other, just trying to lay out some  sound reasoning.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"  Ephesians 1:4-5 kjv ~ God gives us free will to choose.  He doesn't force Himself on anyone.  Matthew 13 is a good story Jesus tells about The Sower and the different types of ground seeds of the gospel fall on which is our hearts.  God is very concerned with our hearts because it takes a lot to break through some people's hardened hearts.  I know, I was  one of them.  But it is a choice.  Big decision with a big consequence.  If a person believes and submits then their hearts get put on the master potter's wheel to be reformed. "And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.  Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel."  Jeremiah 18:4-6 kjv

Im not telling you that you are wrong..  I said I was presenting two theologies and explaining how they both have to agree that some people are created, with God knowing that they will reject Him.  I agree with you that we all have free will.

I didn't take offense. I just find  it amazing that His believers were "predestined" and were chosen before the foundation of the world.  I have thought about that a lot.  It's like this world we are born into is a test to find out way back home but along the way are the distractions from the enemy to keep many from choosing God's way.  Living a life for God goes against what this world has to offer.  Think about the three temptations; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.  So many distractions are based on those three temptations and they catch so many people.  Christian are made fun of because we worship God even though we have never seen Him but He sent His Son to show us the Father.  
1 Peter 2:9 - But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Deuteronomy 14:2 - For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.

I liked this conversation between a son and his mother in God's Not Dead.  Best quote of the movie.

Mark: You prayed and believed your whole life. Never done anything wrong. And here you are. You're the nicest person I know. I am the meanest. You have dementia. My life is perfect. Explain that to me!
Mina's Mother: Sometimes the devil allows people to live a life free of trouble because he doesn't want them turning to God. Their sin is like a jail cell, except it is all nice and comfy and there doesn't seem to be any reason to leave. The door's wide open. Till one day, time runs out, and the cell door slams shut, and suddenly it's too late.