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Link Posted: 4/13/2015 9:53:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Oh look, another "lesson" disguised as a legitimate question.

So much new. So much novel.

OP, if you accept that Christ was more than human, why limit yourself to human conceptions of "flesh" and "blood?"

Strikes me as just more selective attempts to put limits on God, in order to justify a theology.
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 11:14:52 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Oh look, another "lesson" disguised as a legitimate question.

So much new. So much novel.

OP, if you accept that Christ was more than human, why limit yourself to human conceptions of "flesh" and "blood?"

Strikes me as just more selective attempts to put limits on God, in order to justify a theology.
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You are reading to much into my question.  As I said at the beginning. ...this was new to me.  I am not Catholic.  I do not believe it changes.  I said that from the start.  I now know how the Catholic Church feels about this, from the responses here.  I am not looking to change your mind.  As for my comment about being symbolic in my church...it was a comment with a smiley.  That could be taken as " when a protestant says it is symbolic they are correct, because they believe this and the Catholic Church agrees that when a protestant church offers communion it does not change" was kind of said tongue in cheek.

Thank you all for stating your views and once again for keeping it civil.  I truly do learn from the responses.

Link Posted: 4/13/2015 11:19:44 AM EDT
[#3]
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KD5, I am confused by what you are asking.

If you are asking what happens if a Protestant were to receive Communion in a Catholic Church...

We believe that in participating in the Eucharist we are also in part celebrating a oneness of faith.  Sadly Protestants and Catholics do not have a oneness of faith.

We also have guidelines that we must follow in order for us to receive the Eucharist and among them is being in a state of Grace, having been to Confession, etc.  Protestants do not believe the same so that too would make it wrong for you to take our Eucharist.  We believe what it says in 1Cor, "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

If you are asking what happens when you have communion at your Protestant church.  For you it would matter what you particular sect teaches.  

Also to your comment "it takes a Priest to change it"...

The transubstantiation takes place at Mass during the Eucharistic Prayer.  The Priest acts "in persona Christi", the person of Christ, and says the Words of Institution, which are the Words of Christ said at The Last Supper.  At that time the Consecration occurs and the bread and wine are now the Precious Body and Blood of Christ.

You will notice on the Altar in a Catholic Church we have a golden Tabernacle.  The Precious Body of Christ which is not consumed at Mass in stored in the Tabernacle and used for the next Mass or in case of emergency.  Near the Tabernacle you will see a red candle or lamp called the Sanctuary Lamp.  This candle or lamp signifies the Presence of Christ.
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Thank you.  I meant no offense by saying it takes a priest to change it.  Was a quick way of saying the whole Mass process with a priest administering the service according to the doctrine of the Catholic church.  My question was in reference to taking communion at a protestant church.
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 11:50:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Lutherans do not believe in consubstantiation. That is a belief falsely attributed to us. We reject consubstantiation. We do affirm the Real Presence of Christ in Holy Communion. Two quotes are provided below for reference.


First, Dr. Richard A. Muller, a Reformed theologian, writes in his book, Dictionary of Latin and Greek Theological Terms:


consubstantiatio: consubstantiation; viz, a doctrine of Christ's sacramental presence in the Eucharist developed in the Middle Ages as an alternative to theories of substantial alteration of the elements either by annihilation or transformation of the substance of the bread and wine.

According to the theory of consubstantiation, the body and blood of Christ become substantially present together with the substance of the bread and wine, when the elements are Consecrated. The theory is frequently confused with the Lutheran doctrine of real presence.

Consubstantiatio indicates the presence of Christ's body according to a unique sacramental mode of presence that is proper to Christ's body as such, and is therefore a local presence (praesentia localis, q.v.) , the Lutheran view, however, argues a real, but illocal presence of Christ's body and blood that is grounded in the omnipresence of Christ's person, and therefore a supernatural and sacramental, rather than a local, union with the visible elements of the sacrament.

A concept related to consubstantiatio is that of impanatio, or impanation, indicating the presence of Christ's body in the bread (in pane). Here, too, the bread remains and Christ's body becomes present with it, but, as propounded by its medieval proponent Guitmund of Aversa, impanatio implies a hypostatic or personal union of Christ with the bread.

With reference to the wine this theory is called invinatio, invination. Consubstantiatio implies only a presence with and not a union of Christ and the sacramental elements; it was taught as a possibility by Duns Scotus, John of Jandun, and William of Occam. SEE praesentia illocalis sive definitiva; praesentia realis; transubstantiatio; ubiquitas; unio personalis: unio sacramentalis. [Ed: bold emphasis and paragraph spacing added for readability]
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Summary of above: a Reformed theologian says that Lutherans do not believe in consubstantiation but instead believe in the Real Presence.


Now, let's see what Lutherans say for themselves. We deny that we believe in consubstantiation and teach that we believe in the Real Presence:


LINK HERE

Consubstantiation.
View, falsely charged to Lutheranism, that bread and body form 1 substance (a “3d substance”) in Communion (similarly wine and blood) or that body and blood are present, like bread and wine, in a natural manner. See also Grace, Means of, IV 3.
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AND,

LINK

Grace, Means of, IV 3

3. Real Presence. The words of institution, “Take, eat; this is My body,” clearly state: “With this bread I give you My body.” So these words are explained 1 Co 10:16. There is no transubstantiation* of the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ, nor any consubstantiation* or impanation.* In, with, and under the bread and wine a communicant, also an unbelieving communicant (1 Co 11:27–29), receives Christ's true body, given into death, and His true blood, shed for sins.

This is the point of controversy bet. Luths. and Ref. The question is not whether Christ is present acc. to His divine nature in the Sacrament, or whether the soul by faith is united with Christ (spiritual eating and drinking), or whether the believing communicant receives the merits of Christ's shed blood by faith (all of which is acknowledged as true by both Luths. and Ref.).

In Luth. terminology the eating and drinking of Christ's body and blood in, with, and under the bread and wine is called sacramental* eating and drinking.

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We Lutherans affirm a Sacramental Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. We deny a local presence.
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 11:52:50 AM EDT
[#5]
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We Lutherans affirm a Sacramental Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. We deny a local presence.
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Interesting, thank you.

Can you elaborate on the distinction between "Real Presence" and "Local Presence?"
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 12:15:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 4:24:47 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
So I am correct....since I am Protestant, when I say it is merely symbolic of Jesus's  body and blood.
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Not any more correct than I am when I say, as an earthling, that there are methane oceans on Mars.

Either it's is literal or it isn't, regardless of who is stating the opinion. Scripture shows it is literal.
Link Posted: 4/13/2015 4:26:28 PM EDT
[#8]
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Then I am wrong and even as a Protestant, it is the literal blood and flesh of Jesus?

I was just told a priest had to change it.....
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So I am correct....since I am Protestant, when I say it is merely symbolic of Jesus's  body and blood.


How does a symbol bring divine punishment, in light of Paul's warning?


Then I am wrong and even as a Protestant, it is the literal blood and flesh of Jesus?

I was just told a priest had to change it.....



Just a minor quibble...

The priest does not "change it". The Holy Spirit does. The priest is simply he who has been ordained with the authority to correctly call down (actually REQUEST) the Presence on our behalf.

Also, there is substantially more to the event than just a "change".

Link Posted: 4/13/2015 9:20:42 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:



Interesting, thank you.

Can you elaborate on the distinction between "Real Presence" and "Local Presence?"
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Quoted:


We Lutherans affirm a Sacramental Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. We deny a local presence.


Interesting, thank you.

Can you elaborate on the distinction between "Real Presence" and "Local Presence?"


The distinction flows from Christology, particularly the two natures of Christ (human and divine) and the communication of attributes of these two natures in the person of Christ. Lutherans confess that Jesus is not confined to one mode of presence. During His state of humiliation, when Jesus walked on earth, His was a local presence. Now, in His state of exaltation, Jesus manifests the presence of His person also in a "Sacramental Presence" in Communion. Lutherans do not attempt to explain HOW Jesus is present, but rather confess that He is really present as His Word proclaims: "This is My Body. This is My Blood." Therefore we believe that Jesus is really present in the gift of His Body eaten and His Blood drunk for the forgiveness of sins.


A quotation from Pieper's Christian Dogmatics textbook follows. He explains how and why Lutherans were falsely accused of affirming Consubstantiation. This false charge originally flowed from Zwingli and his heirs, but now others have picked up the refrain.

The same principle of a solely local and visible mode of presence results in a polemic against the Lutheran doctrine of the Lord’s Supper on the part of the Reformed which is untruthful through and through. Because the Reformed, the moment they hear of a true presence of Christ’s body and blood in the Sacrament, always visualize only their visible and local presence, “as the peasant fills out jacket and breeches,” they ascribe to us Lutherans a local inclusion (localis inclusio, Hodge, Syst. Theol., I, 83) of the body of Christ in the bread, or a local consubstantiation (consubstantiatio), or even a physical compounding (permixtio) of bread and body of Christ.

Because of the same bias they apply to us Lutherans the titles “carnivorous beasts,” “blood guzzlers,” and “cannibals,”50 and call the Supper instituted by Christ, with the real presence of the body and blood of Christ which is given and shed for us, a “Cyclopean meal” and a “Thyestean banquet.”51 All this is the result of their adoption of the thesis that Christ’s body can have only a visible and local mode of presence as their principle of Scripture interpretation.2


50 Zwingli is one of the coarsest blasphemers, as his De vera et falsa religione (Opp. II, 555), shows. He proves the absence of Christ’s body and blood from the Sacrament not merely with the words (John 6:63), “The flesh profiteth nothing,” but also with the words of Peter at the miraculous draught of fishes (Luke 5:8), “Depart from me … O Lord.”

These words of Peter, flowing from his realization of his sinfulness, induce Zwingli to give the following instruction on the Lord’s Supper: “And we are to have appetite to eat Christ in a natural manner, as cannibals (anthropophagi) do? As though somebody could so love his children that he would wish to devour (devorare) them! Or as though among, all men those who devour human flesh were not regarded as the most savage.”

Also Oecolampadius, whom the Reformed praise for his dignified manner of fighting Luther (R. E., 2d ed., X, 722), uses the above expressions in his answer to Luther s preface to the Syngramma (St. L. XX:588 ff.).

The coarsest Reformed opponent was perhaps Beza. Even Heppe, a great admirer of Beza, concedes (R. E., 2d ed., II, 361): “Beza in 1560 opposed Tilemann Hesshusius, a defender of the Lutheran doctrine, with two dialogues, of which he called the one ‘Cannibalism’ or ‘The Cyclop,’ the other ‘The Scolding Ass’ or ‘Sophist,’ both of which unfortunately were overflowing with boundless scorn and ridicule.”

It is principally Beza whom the Formula of Concord has in mind in pointing out “how unjustly and maliciously the Sacramentarian fanatics (Theodore Beza) deride the Lord Christ, St. Paul, and the entire Church in calling this oral partaking, and that of the unworthy, duos pilos caudae equinae et commentum, cuius vel ipsum Satanam pudeat, as also the doctrine concerning the majesty of Christ, excrementum Satanae, quo diabolus sibi ipsi et hominibus illudat, that is, they speak so horribly of it that a godly Christian man should be ashamed to translate it” (Trigl. 997, Sol. Decl., VII, 67).

51The legendary Cyclopes were pictured as cannibals (of. Homer, Od. IX, 287 ff.; Virgil, Aen. III, 623 ff.). Thyestes ate the flesh of his own son, served him by his brother Aetreus (cf. Cicero, Tusc., III, 12, 26).

2 Francis Pieper, Christian Dogmatics, electronic ed., vol. 3 (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1953), 326–327.



[Ed: paragraph breaks added.] Sorry that the superscripts don't work on the footnotes. There are 2 footnotes, "50" and "51." The "2" denotes the work from which the quotation was taken.
Link Posted: 4/14/2015 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#10]
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KD5, I am confused by what you are asking.

If you are asking what happens if a Protestant were to receive Communion in a Catholic Church...

We believe that in participating in the Eucharist we are also in part celebrating a oneness of faith.  Sadly Protestants and Catholics do not have a oneness of faith.

We also have guidelines that we must follow in order for us to receive the Eucharist and among them is being in a state of Grace, having been to Confession, etc.  Protestants do not believe the same so that too would make it wrong for you to take our Eucharist.  We believe what it says in 1Cor, "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."

If you are asking what happens when you have communion at your Protestant church.  For you it would matter what you particular sect teaches.  

Also to your comment "it takes a Priest to change it"...

The transubstantiation takes place at Mass during the Eucharistic Prayer.  The Priest acts "in persona Christi", the person of Christ, and says the Words of Institution, which are the Words of Christ said at The Last Supper.  At that time the Consecration occurs and the bread and wine are now the Precious Body and Blood of Christ.

You will notice on the Altar in a Catholic Church we have a golden Tabernacle.  The Precious Body of Christ which is not consumed at Mass in stored in the Tabernacle and used for the next Mass or in case of emergency.  Near the Tabernacle you will see a red candle or lamp called the Sanctuary Lamp.  This candle or lamp signifies the Presence of Christ.
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When I was a kid several Catholic Churches in the area would periodically have the Tabernacle pried open and the Consecrated Hosts stolen. Come to find out it was devil worshippers who needed them for the ancient desecration rituals at their black masses.  There were unlocked bags of wafers in the Sacristy and in the Protestant churches that looked identical to those in the Tabernacle and would have been much quicker and easier to steal but Satan and his followers will settle for nothing less than the genuine article to profane  .
Validation of the Real Presence from the evil one himself.
Link Posted: 4/15/2015 12:16:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Woe unto them. Their punishment will be..............harsh.
Link Posted: 4/15/2015 4:53:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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What I am told by Roman Catholics is that the official position says that it does actually change BUT remains the taste and appearance as if it did not.  What really gets them if you then refer to it as cannibalism.
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Yeah, I kinda made a mistake this sunday. I went to church with someone, it happened to be communion. She asked if I knew what it was, I said I did, then she told me she had brought another friend who "freaked out" when she found out what communion was. After service I commented that communion was kinda like simbolic of canibalism (you say you are eating the body and blood) I was referancing why her friend may have freaked out. As soon as I said it and I saw the look on her face I knew I'd said the wrong thing, BIG TIME. Not sure if I'm welcome back there now.
I have a way of always saying the wrong thing even when I mean well.
Link Posted: 4/15/2015 5:01:13 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

Yeah, I kinda made a mistake this sunday. I went to church with someone, it happened to be communion. She asked if I knew what it was, I said I did, then she told me she had brought another friend who "freaked out" when she found out what communion was. After service I commented that communion was kinda like simbolic of canibalism (you say you are eating the body and blood) I was referancing why her friend may have freaked out. As soon as I said it and I saw the look on her face I knew I'd said the wrong thing, BIG TIME. Not sure if I'm welcome back there now.
I have a way of always saying the wrong thing even when I mean well.
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Quoted:
What I am told by Roman Catholics is that the official position says that it does actually change BUT remains the taste and appearance as if it did not.  What really gets them if you then refer to it as cannibalism.

Yeah, I kinda made a mistake this sunday. I went to church with someone, it happened to be communion. She asked if I knew what it was, I said I did, then she told me she had brought another friend who "freaked out" when she found out what communion was. After service I commented that communion was kinda like simbolic of canibalism (you say you are eating the body and blood) I was referancing why her friend may have freaked out. As soon as I said it and I saw the look on her face I knew I'd said the wrong thing, BIG TIME. Not sure if I'm welcome back there now.
I have a way of always saying the wrong thing even when I mean well.


Was this at a protestant church or a catholic mass?
Link Posted: 4/15/2015 5:29:37 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


Was this at a protestant church or a catholic mass?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
What I am told by Roman Catholics is that the official position says that it does actually change BUT remains the taste and appearance as if it did not.  What really gets them if you then refer to it as cannibalism.

Yeah, I kinda made a mistake this sunday. I went to church with someone, it happened to be communion. She asked if I knew what it was, I said I did, then she told me she had brought another friend who "freaked out" when she found out what communion was. After service I commented that communion was kinda like simbolic of canibalism (you say you are eating the body and blood) I was referancing why her friend may have freaked out. As soon as I said it and I saw the look on her face I knew I'd said the wrong thing, BIG TIME. Not sure if I'm welcome back there now.
I have a way of always saying the wrong thing even when I mean well.


Was this at a protestant church or a catholic mass?

Protestant.
Link Posted: 4/16/2015 11:51:48 PM EDT
[#15]
That's okay. The people Jesus told about it flipped out, too.

He did not, however, change His mind about what he had said.
Link Posted: 4/17/2015 12:07:41 AM EDT
[#16]
I knew this one would go for a while.  

Look, here's the bottom line.  Jesus told us that the bread and wine through a miracle become his body and blood.  Translations, early Church fathers, everything - points that it was NOT symbollism, but literal in the meaning.  Jesus lost a bunch of disciples when they figured out he really meant it.  They were every bit as incredulous as many people are today.

The belief in the Eucharist is in large part, as I keep saying, a TEST OF OUR FAITH.  Believe and show our love and devotion, or don't believe.  Again, blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet believed.  This of course applies far beyond the doubting Thomas incident.

Finally, if anyone thinks in their wildest dreams that the God who created the entire universe, raised people from the dead, raised himself from the dead, cannot make the bread and wine become his body and blood, and yet allow it to still appear as bread and wine, you are seriously fooling yourself.  God can do anything.  He is not bound by molecules, cells, chemicals, sound, light, vision, structure, opinions, or worldly constraints of any kind.

But as I always say, very soon someday, we will all find out who was right and who was wrong.  Then the arguments will be over.

Link Posted: 4/17/2015 9:49:16 AM EDT
[#17]
1365. "Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: 'This is my body which is given for you' and 'This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood.' In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he 'poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.'

1366. "The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: (Christ), our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper 'on the night when he was betrayed,' (he wanted) to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.[Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24, 27.]"

1367. "The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: 'The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.' 'In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.'[Council of Trent (1562): DS 1743; cf. Heb 9:14, 27.]" [1]
Link Posted: 4/19/2015 9:38:56 PM EDT
[#18]
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The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." "

From linguistic studies of John and other Gospel passages regarding the Eucharist, and from the tradition of the early Church, it is evident that it was not symbolic.
 And we know that Martin Luther never denied the real presence.

How preposterous is it to believe that God would lower Himself to become a man, and allow Himself to be crucified by the likes of the Romans?  Again, the history of God's relationship with man is in large part about testing of our faith in Him, about proving our love in return for His.  Jesus was brutally crucified and stowed away in a tomb.  He then asks us to believe He rose from the dead, and is the Son of God.  That can be really hard to believe.  

St. Augustine:  "What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction"

"Blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed."
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When I wondered about this question myself, it was the above verse that settled it for me.  The Jews were scandalized, and sought clarification.  Jesus didn't say, "Look, guys, it's a symbolism.  Do I have to spell out everything for you?"  No, He explained it unequivocally that he meant what he said.  The word He used this time for effect was not eat, but chew or gnaw like an animal would gnaw its food.  That's about as clear as it gets.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 2:01:45 AM EDT
[#19]
When Jesus said this:
John 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He went on to explain Himself, perfectly.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

nuff said.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 2:02:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Double post.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 2:50:05 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
When Jesus said this:
John 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He went on to explain Himself, perfectly.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

nuff said.
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Yeah, no.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 8:48:54 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



Yeah, no.
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Quoted:
When Jesus said this:
John 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:55  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

He went on to explain Himself, perfectly.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

nuff said.



Yeah, no.


Translation: I'm not really sure what John 6:63 means so I'm just gonna go with "just kidding."
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 11:12:24 PM EDT
[#23]

     60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62 “What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

     66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” 70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” 71Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.
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Just wanted to put that part in context instead of selective verse-picking.

In verse 66, many followers left Jesus, and even the Apostles were rattled by what He had said. If they were misunderstanding Him, He could have easily clarified that He was speaking figuratively only, but He didn't. In fact, He asked the Apostles if they wanted to leave, too.

Later in the NT, Paul speaks with great importance about how one must be worthy of receiving communion, and how receiving it improperly can destroy you.

None of that supports the notion that "Just kidding! It was just a figure of speech! PSYCH! Just wanted to see if you were listening!"
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