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Link Posted: 4/7/2015 7:16:48 PM EDT
[#1]
IMO, it doesn't matter if there's a Rapture at all. If it happens, praise God! If it doesn't, praise God!  

 
Link Posted: 4/7/2015 7:26:52 PM EDT
[#2]
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IMO, it doesn't matter if there's a Rapture at all. If it happens, praise God! If it doesn't, praise God!    
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Am I selfish for saying, "As long as I end up going north instead of south, I don't give a flip if there's a rapture or not!"?
Link Posted: 4/8/2015 5:13:25 PM EDT
[#3]
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this notion sinners are raptured is as lurdicious as saying the church replaces israel. people are clearly failing to divide the Word as paul instructed.
life will be normal and then it will happen.

The tribulation is for Israel, not the church. there are tribulation saints who will be physically saved and matthew 24 deals with physical salvation not the spiritual aspect.
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1 theselonians 4:16 says Jesus will return with a loud shout and a trump.  It says the dead in Christ shall be taken first then the Believers.  This matches the verses about the two men in the field and the two women.  Sinners taken first, then believers..then Judgement.  Plus Jesus coming with a shout is not a secret vanishing of believers as pre trib people like to say.



this notion sinners are raptured is as lurdicious as saying the church replaces israel. people are clearly failing to divide the Word as paul instructed.
life will be normal and then it will happen.

The tribulation is for Israel, not the church. there are tribulation saints who will be physically saved and matthew 24 deals with physical salvation not the spiritual aspect.

But who is Israel today? The 10 of the 12 tribes dispersed and there seed is far and wide.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 4:31:51 AM EDT
[#4]
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The next time Christ comes, it will be all at once. Game over. Time's up.
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Pre-trib all the way. Since the Bible doesn't use the terms rapture, 1st coming, 2nd coming. The context of Jesus' return determines the meaning. The verses below can't be describing the same event.

Rapture:

1) Jesus descends to the clouds (not earth) to gather the faithful
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14:2 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2) No advanced warning
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

3) Faithful do not see tribulation
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Noah was sealed in the ark before the the rain began) Genesis 7:9-10,16 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth... And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

4) Life is normal when it happens
Matthew 24:38-44 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

=====================================

2nd coming:

1) Comes to earth
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

2) Scripture predicts it to the day.
Dan 7:25 3.5 years, Rev 13:5 42 months, Rev 12:6 1260 days after the abomination of desolation.

3) Every eye shall see His return.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

4) Is life normal when it happens?
Revelation 6:12-16 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Matthew 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 10:21:56 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

Pre-trib all the way. Since the Bible doesn't use the terms rapture, 1st coming, 2nd coming. The context of Jesus' return determines the meaning. The verses below can't be describing the same event.

Rapture:

1) Jesus descends to the clouds (not earth) to gather the faithful
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14:2 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2) No advanced warning
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

3) Faithful do not see tribulation
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Noah was sealed in the ark before the the rain began) Genesis 7:9-10,16 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth... And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

4) Life is normal when it happens
Matthew 24:38-44 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

=====================================

2nd coming:

1) Comes to earth
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

2) Scripture predicts it to the day.
Dan 7:25 3.5 years, Rev 13:5 42 months, Rev 12:6 1260 days after the abomination of desolation.

3) Every eye shall see His return.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

4) Is life normal when it happens?
Revelation 6:12-16 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Matthew 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
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The next time Christ comes, it will be all at once. Game over. Time's up.

Pre-trib all the way. Since the Bible doesn't use the terms rapture, 1st coming, 2nd coming. The context of Jesus' return determines the meaning. The verses below can't be describing the same event.

Rapture:

1) Jesus descends to the clouds (not earth) to gather the faithful
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

John 14:2 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

2) No advanced warning
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

3) Faithful do not see tribulation
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Noah was sealed in the ark before the the rain began) Genesis 7:9-10,16 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth... And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

4) Life is normal when it happens
Matthew 24:38-44 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

=====================================

2nd coming:

1) Comes to earth
Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

2) Scripture predicts it to the day.
Dan 7:25 3.5 years, Rev 13:5 42 months, Rev 12:6 1260 days after the abomination of desolation.

3) Every eye shall see His return.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

4) Is life normal when it happens?
Revelation 6:12-16 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb

Matthew 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.



Thank you for putting this together. Now, I will have to memorize these scripture verses. Thanks again.  
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 4:09:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Those verses don't deal with a rapture.  They deal with the destruction of the temple.  Read the context.  The two men in the field are the wicked.  Read the next part.  As in the days of Noah....what happens here? He destroys the wicked.  It must all be read.  Not just a line here and there.

Jesus speaks of two ages...this age and the age to come.  This age was referring to when he walked the earth and the age to come was after that.

No this age, the age to come, and the age to come after the age to come.  If you saw that please direct me to it.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 5:36:47 PM EDT
[#7]
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Those verses don't deal with a rapture.  They deal with the destruction of the temple.  Read the context.  
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Those verses don't deal with a rapture.  They deal with the destruction of the temple.  Read the context.  
The disciples didn't ask one question, they asked three.

Matthew 24:2-3 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand

(He tells them of the rebirth if Israel) 32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. 29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

Jesus speaks of two ages...this age and the age to come. This age was referring to when he walked the earth and the age to come was after that.
Not exactly. "This age" refers to current human history, culminating with the completion of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 mentioned by Jesus in verse 15. Seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens’ have already passed (total of 69). The still-future 7 year tribulation is the final 'seven'.

The two men in the field are the wicked.
Cite?
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 5:54:16 PM EDT
[#8]
http://www.calvinistcorner.com/this-age.htm

Here is a different opinion.

Again, this is not a topic that dictates whether one is a christian or not, or should be a divisive topic in the big scheme of things.  But is good to discuss.
Link Posted: 5/5/2015 8:24:58 PM EDT
[#9]

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http://www.calvinistcorner.com/this-age.htm



Here is a different opinion.



Again, this is not a topic that dictates whether one is a christian or not, or should be a divisive topic in the big scheme of things.  But is good to discuss.
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In my opinion, with the beginning of the New Covenant, we entered a New Age.  So, the "end of the age", does not necessarily mean the end of human history.  The events of 70 A.D. did seem to mark a turning point.



 

Link Posted: 5/9/2015 5:12:19 AM EDT
[#10]
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What about the others like me?
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All I know is this...

If there is a Rapture, and I'm left behind, I hope it happens while I'm still young enough to fight on the good side rather than sitting around useless...
You're not going to be fighting anything.  Other than suffering from plagues.  Also, the Beast will overcome all enemies for his allotted time.  So any resistance is essentially futile.
What about the others like me?
No directed at you, but to anyone who thinks it'll be time to kick butt & chew bubblegum.

Rev 13:4-7
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
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