As a follower of Jesus Christ is it acceptable to wage war and support war?

I can't speak to that, but I can say that a good amount of wars on this earth are fought in the name of one religion or another.

Something about that just strikes me odd.

They did in ancient times.

They did in medieval times.

They did in modern times.

Now, some wars are considered just, and some are not.  

Good luck with choosing between the two.

I am of the belief that no war is just. So it's not a choice for me. I'm just curious as to why so many Christians get behind war and the governments that sponsor it.

Christianity is a broad tent.  Look at Sergeant York.  He started out with the same beliefs as you, but ended up being a war hero.  

Was Alvin York right?  At some point he must have been, but then at some point, he couldn't be.

War is a horrible thing, but it is not the most horrible thing.

There is always an alternative. Is it acceptable to wage and support war? As a Christian I would say no, especially as we are lied too or are never told the entire truth by those wanting our support for their wars.
When I was younger, more gullible, naïve, sure, I even volunteered to go, didn't matter the reason, just wanted to get involved.
Today, nope. The only killing I could ever condone would be in defending my family or other innocents that are being attacked within my immediate area. I'm done with bandwagons.

This probably isn't fair of me, but I never said that I would be fair, did I?

Question;  As a follower of Jesus Christ, how are you going to enforce your decision as to whether war is acceptable or not?  Seriously, if you decide not to wage war, that means that you turn over everything that you own, including the labor of the rest of your life, to some one who believes that war is indeed acceptable.  You really have no other choice.

Of course, you can always choose to die.  Not a very pretty choice, however.

Though, I do agree, it is a very good way to show that you meant no war.

That's refreshing. I appreciate your belief. I felt the same way when I was younger and now feel it is contradictory to the teachings of Christ. I was afraid of the beating I would receive posting this on a gun forum but I was curious to see an actual justification for it.

http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

I never said that defending your property, family and the fruits of your labor is not right in the eyes of God. What I take issue with is supporting a government and standing army to do others bidding around the globe.

Now we are getting into the sub-divisions of war.  Obviously, you consider some forms of war acceptable, and some not.  (Some wars are just, some are not).

I too consider some wars to be acceptable, and some not.  

I think your guestion has been answered.  Maybe you need to come back and re-define your question.

That is a complicated question. On many occasions throughout the Old Testament we see God directing Israel to engage in just that - war. Other times we are given an account of Israel going to war where it is unclear whether it was "sanctioned" by God. We know when Christ returns it will be on a white horse (a symbol of violence or warfare) and he will pour out his judgment on the earth.

This is mostly just thinking out loud as I can't say I have a completely formed, exhaustive, and Biblically based opinion on the subject, but I suppose it gets down to what the purpose is. Is it sinful or anti-Christian to engage in violent action against evil? I don't think so at all. I think absolute pacifism is a false teaching, though I would agree that we should prefer peace to war. I think often of WWII and I have absolutely no problem seeing American agression against the Nazis as a just cause given the number of people being slaughtered in concentration camps, but did it remain just when bombs were dropped on civilians in their homes or while forcibly working in the factories to support Hitler's war machine? There is where it starts to get hazy. The cause can be just, and those answering the call of duty can absolutely be noble, but war is nasty business. It is not the cut and dry childish good guys against the bad guys westerns where no innocents get hurt.

Lets think about unintended consequences though just for conversation's sake. And forgive the limited relation to war as this is the best analogy I can come up with. Let's say I walk up to someone on the street and start telling them the good news of Jesus. This obviously isn't a sin. Let's say further that, unbeknownst to me I have just delayed that person to an appointment they need to make and as they are walking away from me they are still distracted, step in front of a bus and get killed. Or possibly, they are in an extremely depressed state and our conversation is the tipping point to which their self-destructive emotions are stirred and they decide to take their own life. Does my attempt to tell them about Christ then become a sin? I think most would say - no it does not.

If I am carrying concealed in a mall and someone pulls out a rifle and starts killing people - I pull my weapon, make myself as aware of the surroundings as I can in a split second, and take a shot. The shot kills the shooter but goes clean through him, then through a piece of drywall, and kills a little girl that I could not have possibly seen. Is it my fault? Logic says - no it isn't my fault - though I know in the aftermath of it, especially being a parent myself, that I would feel overwhelming guilt because of it.

Apply this logic to war - if it is not a sin to take up arms against evil - say ISIS - then does the whole thing become unjust or sinful when an innocent civilian gets killed by the "good guys" all the while ISIS is murdering dozens each day? I think we have to remember that our world and our existence is fallen. Remember that one of Satan's names is the accuser of the brethren. One can know his influence when doing good but there is that underlying subliminal accusation of "who are you that you think you are good enough to help." Any devout Christian knows this influence, but many may not have connected the dots. Satan's goal is to prevent us from doing good or doing God's work. This is one of the methods with which he accomplishes this. He uses whatever he has at his disposal to make you second guess yourself, especially when something good may come out of it.

Taking the scenario above, prior to drawing my weapon I have that last split second of doubt and I don't draw my weapon. Maybe the girl gets killed by the shooter anyway along with several more people. I want to draw a distinction between conscious situational awareness and the seed of doubt. If I see a pigtail poking out beyond the shooter's shoulder, then I have a reason to doubt due to situational awareness, but that accusing voice that says "who are you to step in?" is something else entirely.

Do we, as Christians, not have a moral obligation to defend the innocent?

Psalm 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy; Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.  

Proverbs 24:11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.

Ezekiel 33 "... 6 'But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman's hand.'

Deuteronmy 19 also gives some insights into unintentional killing and makes it clear this is not to be confused with murder. In the absence of malice the accidental killer has the opportunity to flee any avenger and though this crime is not entirely guiltless, he is not to be put to death (as would a murderer) but is free to return upon the death of the high priest (much like our sins were forgiven when Christ died on the cross).


All that being said, I think many people that are Christians are too itchy for war. I used to be that way. However, that doesn't mean war is always unjust. Much like all paths the follower of Christ must walk, the way is narrow like a fine line. So, basically my answer is that its a complicated question and I don't have a complete answer, but to say ALL war is unacceptable to the follower of Christ is untrue.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church has a nice write-up on this very topic and those surrounding it.



http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm

Even if one is not Catholic, it's likely worth a read.  There are a lot of references (both Scripture and Church documents).

This.  2309 enumerates the just war elements.

Two concepts.

Jus ad bellum (the justice of the overall campaign, the goals towards which war is a necessary means)

Jus in bello (the justice within the campaign, the actual means chosen to defeat the enemy, stop unjust aggressors, restore the "tranquilitas ordinis" which some translate as 'peace' but connotes not merely a halt of violence but the actual stable rule of law post conflict. After all, a prison has 'peace' as does a grave yard but that's not what we're trying to accomplish....

The ends do not justify the means.

The ends must be good and the means must be good.

The 5th commandment forbids murder, not killing (else, plenty of old testament saints and patriarchs including Moses would be breaking the commandments). So while it is often necessary to use lethal force to stop an unjust aggressor, once he surrenders so too much the use of lethal force. POWs have rights. You can't torture them or kill them while no longer in a state of hostile aggression. They may remain unjust but inasmuch as they're no longer dangerous, they can't be treated like things. They remain people.

Now, lots of things come from this which are hard to live by but nevertheless are all part of the Catholic just war tradition..... one may not hate the enemy even while trying to kill them.

It's in light of this that the gays' claim that merely to disagree with their political ambition is to 'hate' them is really, egregiously over the top rhetoric. It's fighting words. We don't hate them and we're not to hate the enemy we fight either. The moment they surrender, or a truce is called, we have to stop aggression too.

We can't treat noncombatants as combatants. So no total war. No 'strategic bombing' of civilian population centers... as before anyone gets the tights in a wad, I'll remind you that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were both Catholic cities.... most of the Catholics of Japan ceased to exist in August 1945.... we've been on the receiving end of strategic bombing (and gulags, and purges, and punitive measures.....) so while it's been 400 years since the last official Catholic crusade, we still teach Just war because morality is eternal. If something is wrong, it doesn't become right with the change of the times. After all, "the times" are just people and their opinions.

Murder was wrong in 4000 BC and it's wrong now. Chattel slavery - treating people as things, as animals - was wrong in 4000 BC and it's wrong now. As a punishment for war or crime...that's a separate case. In the OT and New, slavery existed but it was always clear that both Jews and Catholics had to treat them as human beings...thus Paul's letter to Onesimus... an apostle wrote a personal letter to a slave... encouraging him to return to his master and encouraging the master to treat him as a brother not a piece of property. Most people glide right over that letter and don't realize the importance it has in the 'debate' of morals....

But I digress...

The Church teaches Just war theory because morality has no expiration date and we will probably end up fighting another Just war again so ought to have guidance.

Yes.

Look up Just War Theory.

Also look to Christ's encounter with the Centurion.  At no point did Christ ever suggest that soldiering was an immoral or dishonorable pursuit.  In fact, it was precisely the Centurion's martial appreciation for faith and discipline that He admired.

I think it's acceptable in some situations. Knowing the exact truth of those situations to judge them acceptable is a whole different story. Theres always three sides to a story: your side, my side, and the truth.

On a side note, if we just followed one of Christ's commands there would never be another war. That command is love your neighbor.

First let's ask scripture in Luke 3:14:

Now some versions add "do violence to no man", yet when I look at the interlinear I do not find support for what those words imply in contemporary meaning:

"Oppress" here from diaseió meaning blackmail, extortion, or intimidation.

Now let me ask.  If all war is unacceptable for a Christian, would Jesus not have taken this moment to explain the soldiers to that they must cease being part of a military?  Clearly abstinence from military service was not a condition to being saved.

Certainly we see support for use of force in self-defense and civic administration of justice in scripture.  Logically one could come to the belief that armed forces needed for self-defense and applied to ends of justice (which humans rarely due with any purity to be sure) are not out of the question for a Christian.  As has been pointed out, what matters what then ends of the warfare are intended to achieve.

Well, Christ Himself did lay a smackdown when He felt it necessary...

I believe war is justifiable under Christianity under the following conditions:

1) All peaceful remedies have been exhausted.
2) The horrors of war are less than the hours that would remain if the war were not fought.

Interestingly, this is the position of the Church as well.

Short answer?  Because people, especially in masses, have absolutely no concept of Liberty and no concept of the teachings of their religion. For 95% of people, it comes down to their base emotions at the time.  Then they forget instead of regret.

Well said and most appropriate username for post content ever.

Kingdoms will rise against kingdoms, there will be wars & rumors of wars.. Do not concern yourselves with these things...

Do you think the outcome would have been better if we sat out WW2?  I think there are some wars that are not Justified.  But  evil will not just stop on its own.

Maybe, maybe not.

Seeing as it was only the Third Reich, & not the Fourth...

Ecclesiastes 3:8 says there is a time for war.  So yes sometimes it is right.

Jesus said to love your neighbor....I'm not loving them if I sit by and watch a nation exterminate others because of race, religion etc.  when it can be stopped.  If I do this I am as good as a participant.

Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Those that pick up the sword shall perish by the sword. Those meant for captivity shall go off to captivity.

I admit, it is a conundrum.

I understand the ideal & sentiment.

There has been statement of "Just" war this "Just" war that.

Justified is in the eye of the beholder, as is beauty.

Sad thing is, that which is believed justifiable, or unjustifiable, is a matter of perspective, knowledge and wisdom.

I see no one bothered touching the 4th Kingdom interlude... Instead we choose to see the human side of things... Why might that be?

So to be clear, it is beyond the justification of intervention, yet an undeniable acknowledgement there-of, that the fall of the 3rd Reich was pre-meditated & prophesied. Our involvement in Gods will was either rudimentary or inconsequential, perhaps both, as the outcome remains constant. Otherwise the truth of scripture be proved Un-truth, & Never May that happen!

Hmmmm....

I remember about Constantine. He was really probably the first person who used Christ as giving him the okay to go to war. A lot of atheist use him as someone who just wanted to take power and control, and from it looks like that's somewhat true, but we also have to look at who he was going to war with. Maxentius and Maxaminus. If Licinius and Constantine would've lost Maxaminius and Maxentius would've went on a genocide of slaughter against the Christians. Maxaminius was RUTHLESS to the christians and wanted them all dead. So maybe like King David Jesus did have a hand in Constantines victory.

The issue is, if your living is by "the sword" (by might, not right) then you will ultimately be judged by might, not right.

Pirates and criminals 'live' by unjust aggression. They take what they want because they can, not because it's owed them.

Live hard, die hard.

That's not what soldiers do. John the Baptist didn't tell the soldiers who came out to him to leave the army but to be content with their pay and not misuse their might to extort or abuse civilians.

In accordance with the founding of this country we were to use our accumulative powers to protect or own country, on our own soil.

What happened when Jerusalem was surrounded & God told them not to worry? He said he would take care of the army & that no one would need to lift a finger to defeat the enemy camping outside the gates. He did just that. He keeps his promises.

Once we again become a Nation that depends on God rather than our own abilities or capabilities we will have peace. "Turn to me & I will heal your Land".

Old Testament undeniably witnesses that when the Kings tried to do things on their own, aside from God, their actions showed futile.

If anyone has an example to the contrary, then please post it.

& in regard to the command to Centurions above, did not the Roman Empire fall according to his will because of the persecution of his Chosen ones? Did not the Roman Empire Crucify our Lord?

If Jesus was to come today would our Goverment, & others, do the same?