For by grace you are saved through faith (or saved by faith and not by any other method unto Jesus Christ), and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift-----not from works, so that no man can boast. For we are His creation-----created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2: 8-10

Now, as some may know, there is a " free will" thread going on in this forum right now.
I will not participate in it any further....


However, was looking through some Scriptures yesterday and came across this great one.
Now, in looking and examining this Scripture I see a few things that some here might find kind of interesting.
And that is the predestined effect of God all through it.
Now, some people don't necessarily believe in predestination and I'm guessing here that that could be for several reasons.
I have no right to judge anyone's religious beliefs here because frankly, I am not a religious person!
Ok?

First off though would anyone like to comment on this Ephesians 2: 8-10; concerning anything that you would like to say about it?

Thanks,

SAE

Thanks op. Just finished Ecclesiastes again and reading Ezekiel now. I'll go back to Ephesians when I finish that.

To me it's stating that through the mercy of Jesus Christ and his life and death for us; that if we believe in Him we can be saved and enter Heaven. Although I agree, I believe we owe God the understanding to live our life in as sinless a manner as we can.

Paul is writing to people who were being tempted to go back to the Jewish Law for their salvation.... it was the 'works of the law' that he was rebutting not works defined by "actions of the will, period."

After all, the same Paul goes on to talk about sins that will lead a soul to hell regardless of that soul's claimed faith - such as sexual impropriety. In his letter to the Corinthians does he NOT chide the community for having a fellow believer in their midst who was having sex with his mother? Paul's anger is not over the man's lack of faith but his lack of virtue.

And in the Epistle of James, it's not mere intellectual assent (faith) that saves - but actions that flow from that faith.

And finally, how does the 'faith alone and absolutely no works' saves you doctrine work when we ONLY go by the actual words of Jesus in all 4 Gospels? Matthew's Gospel in particular lays out quite a few commandments of Jesus....and the great commission of Jesus to the Apostles is all about them making 'disciples' and teaching these disciples to obey all Jesus' commands..... and among these commands is the command to obey the commandments (honor your father and your mother, do not commit adultery etc.).

Every time when Our Lord was presented with a slam dunk opportunity to give a 'faith alone saves you' message, he instead talks about obeying commands out of love (which of course includes and are motivated by faith).

So it was the acts of charity done out of faith in Christ and out of obedience to his commands for strangers that got the sheep saved - they did what was commanded of them for other people and so are counted as doing it for Christ. The damned are damned for not obeying the commandments with respect to fellow people.

Now of the two concepts, one is definitely much more terrifying and thus requires more practical and active faith than the other. If you accept the 'once saved always saved' concept, a SUPER-INDULGENCE if you will, then you can throttle back and coast....there's no risk to your soul... indeed, there's no work at all that could possibly separate you from God's love.... including any manner of sin.

But here's the paradox.... in the conflict between Protestants and Catholics, the Protestants level charges of sin against Popes and other Catholics much more than a lack of faith....or if they accuse us of not having faith it's really not having 'enough of the right kind of faith' - we didn't say the right words apparently when we call Jesus "Lord" and savior. Or we don't mean it (which sounds awfully close to not doing the right kind of works).

Luther broke from Rome over scandal for sin....not scandal for lack of faith. Yet if faith alone is all that matters....then no sins matter, only faith! You can't have it both ways. it can't be that faith alone saves Protestants but works (sins) damn Catholics despite their faith.

But if Jesus' words are that both faith and love are required.....then we're faced with the need to remain in his love....to daily ask for his protection. To constantly pray and seek our salvation with fear of God and trembling. It suddenly makes sense to pray morning, noon, and night..to read the scripture, pray the psalms, do devotions, and go on pilgrimages....to keep on top of oneself and confess one's sins and actively forgive others their trespasses.

The faith alone interpretation doesn't do justice IMHO to the Lord's actual words....so erring on the side of caution (which also happens to be the historic Christian view), I'm going to go with....faith is necessary but so is obedience to God's commands.

Amen

Great post and commentary!
A lot here to study on.
Get back soon about this.
Thanks.

http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2006/09/scripture-commentary-by-st-thomas.html

Really, it would help everyone to pick up and read some Aquinas if only to realize that people were writing detailed commentaries on the scriptures in the 12th century...