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Link Posted: 9/16/2014 8:41:49 PM EDT
[#1]
In the Bible all of the dots connect in perfect order no matter what we do or in what order that we think they should as we process information and interact as humans with the whole of creation that is in our grasp.
It is not "free will' like we think.

The formula and process of creation on down the line as God created is exact.
Otherwise God could not take responsibility for the total creation and would not command total power and control over it.
God is Omnipotent.
God judges and examines all things according to everything else.
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 8:43:39 PM EDT
[#2]

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Correlation concerning a method of prophetic accuracy.

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Biblically prove it.
Prove what?



You posted and quoted your posts.



Not sure which part you want to have proved.

 







Correlation concerning a method of prophetic accuracy.


SAE IM me. I reread and there is stuff missing... and I am completely lost what you want here good friend. Are we talking free will here? Lets start another thread ok?






 

Link Posted: 9/16/2014 8:56:32 PM EDT
[#3]

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Quoted:


In the Bible all of the dots connect in perfect order no matter what we do or in what order that we think they should as we process information and interact as humans with the whole of creation that is in our grasp.

It is not "free will' like we think.



The formula and process of creation on down the line as God created is exact.

Otherwise God could not take responsibility for the total creation and would not command total power and control over it.

God is Omnipotent.
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Bless your heart. SAE!




Joshua 24:15 - And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.





       


"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Peter 1:1 :21 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,  


SAE every single time we sin.. we chose selfish ways and not the way of God. Free will.  Without free will there would be need for evil or sin or God. A lot hinges on that one aspect of our likeness in God.


I think I see where you are going. But we are not enslaved in this way. It is a choice.















 

Link Posted: 9/16/2014 9:13:42 PM EDT
[#4]
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Oh Stanc-ee.  So silly.People believe that the universe goes on forever and has no end.. and we have no proof of this. No epiphany there.
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Actually, it's a very good analogy. One either believes, or does not believe, but belief cannot be switched on or off at will. Any reversal comes as a result of an epiphany, not from a conscious decision to switch.

Yet, Christians keep insisting that belief is a matter of choice, that an atheist could choose to believe God exists. I wonder how many Christians hold the opposite to be true, that they could choose to believe God does not exist.
Oh Stanc-ee.  So silly.People believe that the universe goes on forever and has no end.. and we have no proof of this. No epiphany there.

Angel-fiiiiirrrre. Was it not clear that I was talking about belief in the existence of God?
Of course we can choose not to believe. People walk away from their faith all the time!!! Faith tends to get in the way of their lifestyles and choices that may not necessarily neatly align with their life.

By "walking away from their faith," do you mean they stop believing that God exists, or that they just stop behaving in accord with Christian principles?
Faith is a choice that can be turned on or off.

How? I can sit here and say I'm going to believe that God exists, but no matter how many times I repeat it, I'll know it isn't true.
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 9:15:24 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
I have seen people turn love on and off with the exact same precision of a light switch the second something fancier comes along or the need is met and they have no further use. We call that one night stand.  That is no epiphany, that simply being selfish beyond comprehension.
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Do you seriously equate a one night stand with love?
What about friendship.... to their face you are their friend. The second they are away you a talking behind their back. ON AND OFF Like a SWITCH.
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Is that truly your idea of friendship???
You cannot force people to BELIEVE or  LOVE or HOPE.
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Concur.
God knows this. And God doesn't want someone to be forced to believe or LOVE Him. In fact... God insists that that doesn't happen. He gave us free will so we may have a that choice.
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Then why doesn't he give us full disclosure (i.e., letting us know he exists) so that we can make a rational decision based on reliable information, instead of possibly erroneous beliefs?
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 9:18:23 PM EDT
[#6]
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You mean like ex-communication could be an "epiphany" which brings forth death?
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No, I mean like a life-changing experience that alters one's view on the matter.
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 11:40:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Jesus told his disciples to heal the sick, cast out demons and then preach the Gospel. I believe that until or unless we, his disciples do it in this order, we won't be connecting with the atheists or agnostics among us in the post-Christian West. It's the scandal of so many forms of unhealthy living and relationships that keep lots of people from seeing God as creator of the universe and of human life. It's also the awareness of evil in the absence of seeing a divine hand sustaining Being that makes them assume that while a Devil may exist as some malicious alien, God can't.

But we tend to go to the preaching of the story first...then the rules of fellowship....and ignore the call to heal people and cast out evil spirits and wonder why people simply can't understand why we believe in God much less how a man, Jesus, could also be God.

In the Gospels, Jesus goes about healing the sick and casting out demons - so he practiced what he preached. He also empowered disciples to do this "in his name" - and the Catholic saints certainly have been known to heal the sick physically in their lives and after their deaths (via relics, etc.) as well as exorcise or cast out demons either from possession or from oppression, again in Jesus' name.

Do that first and then people will be disposed to listen to the truth claims of the Gospel.

So I go back to the miracles and 'calling cards of God'.... there have been miraculous healings and exorcisms in the recent past and both came about from the prayer of Catholics to Jesus for the afflicted non-believers. There's a reason the martyrs often helped convert their executioners or the witnesses - it was their peaceful, joyful surrender to God's will in dire circumstances that baffled their executioners or enemies and intrigued them.... leading to emotional or psychological healing, the removal of some obsession or oppression, and finally to considering the Gospel truth claims as possible....to finally embracing the faith as their own.

I don't take someone's atheism as an insult. Faith is a theological virtue, a gift, and hence if you don't have it, while you may understand intellectually what we believe, you can't 'own' it or accept it as true until yes, God leaves a calling card in your life.

Sometimes this is as simple as one coincidence too many. Other times it's a genuine miracle that only you would recognize. Other times it's a public spectacle witnessed by others. But it happens enough for us to have confidence that this is how we ought to proceed and should have always been proceeding.
Link Posted: 9/16/2014 11:44:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Thank you for correcting your post.
Link Posted: 9/17/2014 12:46:46 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Jesus told his disciples to heal the sick, cast out demons and then preach the Gospel. I believe that until or unless we, his disciples do it in this order, we won't be connecting with the atheists or agnostics among us in the post-Christian West. It's the scandal of so many forms of unhealthy living and relationships that keep lots of people from seeing God as creator of the universe and of human life. It's also the awareness of evil in the absence of seeing a divine hand sustaining Being that makes them assume that while a Devil may exist as some malicious alien, God can't.

But we tend to go to the preaching of the story first...then the rules of fellowship....and ignore the call to heal people and cast out evil spirits and wonder why people simply can't understand why we believe in God much less how a man, Jesus, could also be God.

In the Gospels, Jesus goes about healing the sick and casting out demons - so he practiced what he preached. He also empowered disciples to do this "in his name" - and the Catholic saints certainly have been known to heal the sick physically in their lives and after their deaths (via relics, etc.) as well as exorcise or cast out demons either from possession or from oppression, again in Jesus' name.

Do that first and then people will be disposed to listen to the truth claims of the Gospel.

So I go back to the miracles and 'calling cards of God'.... there have been miraculous healings and exorcisms in the recent past and both came about from the prayer of Catholics to Jesus for the afflicted non-believers. There's a reason the martyrs often helped convert their executioners or the witnesses - it was their peaceful, joyful surrender to God's will in dire circumstances that baffled their executioners or enemies and intrigued them.... leading to emotional or psychological healing, the removal of some obsession or oppression, and finally to considering the Gospel truth claims as possible....to finally embracing the faith as their own.

I don't take someone's atheism as an insult. Faith is a theological virtue, a gift, and hence if you don't have it, while you may understand intellectually what we believe, you can't 'own' it or accept it as true until yes, God leaves a calling card in your life.

Sometimes this is as simple as one coincidence too many. Other times it's a genuine miracle that only you would recognize. Other times it's a public spectacle witnessed by others. But it happens enough for us to have confidence that this is how we ought to proceed and should have always been proceeding.
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Great Post!
Very eloquent.
Thank you.
Link Posted: 9/17/2014 1:25:46 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Faith is a theological virtue, a gift, and hence if you don't have it, while you may understand intellectually what we believe, you can't 'own' it or accept it as true until yes, God leaves a calling card in your life.
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Well said. That's precisely how I see it.
Link Posted: 9/17/2014 3:54:13 PM EDT
[#11]

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Quoted:


Jesus told his disciples to heal the sick, cast out demons and then preach the Gospel. I believe that until or unless we, his disciples do it in this order, we won't be connecting with the atheists or agnostics among us in the post-Christian West. It's the scandal of so many forms of unhealthy living and relationships that keep lots of people from seeing God as creator of the universe and of human life. It's also the awareness of evil in the absence of seeing a divine hand sustaining Being that makes them assume that while a Devil may exist as some malicious alien, God can't.



But we tend to go to the preaching of the story first...then the rules of fellowship....and ignore the call to heal people and cast out evil spirits and wonder why people simply can't understand why we believe in God much less how a man, Jesus, could also be God.



In the Gospels, Jesus goes about healing the sick and casting out demons - so he practiced what he preached. He also empowered disciples to do this "in his name" - and the Catholic saints certainly have been known to heal the sick physically in their lives and after their deaths (via relics, etc.) as well as exorcise or cast out demons either from possession or from oppression, again in Jesus' name.



Do that first and then people will be disposed to listen to the truth claims of the Gospel.



So I go back to the miracles and 'calling cards of God'.... there have been miraculous healings and exorcisms in the recent past and both came about from the prayer of Catholics to Jesus for the afflicted non-believers. There's a reason the martyrs often helped convert their executioners or the witnesses - it was their peaceful, joyful surrender to God's will in dire circumstances that baffled their executioners or enemies and intrigued them.... leading to emotional or psychological healing, the removal of some obsession or oppression, and finally to considering the Gospel truth claims as possible....to finally embracing the faith as their own.



I don't take someone's atheism as an insult. Faith is a theological virtue, a gift, and hence if you don't have it, while you may understand intellectually what we believe, you can't 'own' it or accept it as true until yes, God leaves a calling card in your life.



Sometimes this is as simple as one coincidence too many. Other times it's a genuine miracle that only you would recognize. Other times it's a public spectacle witnessed by others. But it happens enough for us to have confidence that this is how we ought to proceed and should have always been proceeding.
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Thank you.





 
Link Posted: 9/17/2014 3:56:07 PM EDT
[#12]

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You are not only generating a second straw man, you have incorrectly attributed someone else's postings to me.  Please correct your post.
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Quoted:t have an AP for faith now?  There is no scientific proof that God does NOT exist!!! By definition: FAITH is believing without proof.



Do you define sophistry as this androgynous society that has evolved to the point where free will is no longer a factor in choices? If that were the case we would have no need of laws. All would be equal.  (lets give that a go in your neighborhood first mmmkay?)



I  propose that we are no different, and in fact may be far more barbaric as a result of technology than those who walked the earth at the time of  Christ. How has man evolved past free will?  In fact I submit that advancement of technology could be scientifically proved, that society has suffered degeneration and directly is an influencing factor in more violence, bullying, hatred, adultery, murder, porn, and sloth to the destruction and degeneration of western society. It's less about knowledge and learning and respect and  values that make a strong respectful society and more about who can tweet stupidity faster.  



We have to do away with love, happiness, evil, good, empathy, empowerment joy, and social pecking orders. Who is to say that because you have all the money you should be allowed a better lot in life right? Scientifically I could make a case that it is just a derivative of a worthless tree.  It's not proven by science that you deserve it any better than anyone else. But we believe that the value of becoming educated and earning a living entitles us to certain levels of social standards. We believe that. If we throw some science at that I bet we could fix it for ya.    




No, I'm using a dictionary definition of sophistry.  But interesting straw man.
In your opinion it is false. Present you scientific irrefutable evidence. ETA. I work in a high tech field where we are all science all day. It includes atheists whom while they do not believe, they seem to have a grasp of our constitution. They have been following. So this should be interesting.

 




You are not only generating a second straw man, you have incorrectly attributed someone else's postings to me.  Please correct your post.
Add something with content please.



 
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 11:38:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Thank you for correcting your post.
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 5:20:43 PM EDT
[#14]
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If you know the Church and reject it you will not be saved.


 
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Its the same answer I posted last time. Maybe you didn't read it. From the CCC...

846   How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

[div style='margin-left: 40px;']Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.


847   This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience—those too may achieve eternal salvation..





 


Thanks for responding twire, however I would like to have heard a yes or no from you.
If I can go to heaven without being a catholic then what is the point of being one?
As I stated in an earlier post, the original church would be what some call Pentecostal, The church as started on the day of Pentecost operated in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
All other teachings such as the Eucharist, infant baptism, calvanism, to much other stuff to list came later.

Peter your first Pope had a stadium type street preaching ministry on the day of Pentecost and 3000 people came to the altar call!
If you know the Church and reject it you will not be saved.


 


And some people cant see Jesus because the church has blinded them.
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 6:40:01 PM EDT
[#15]

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You are not only generating a second straw man, you have incorrectly attributed someone else's postings to me.  Please correct your post.
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Quoted: SNIPPED TO REPAIR PREVIOUS SNIP ERROR.


Quoted:



No, I'm using a dictionary definition of sophistry.  But interesting straw man.
In your opinion it is false. Present you scientific irrefutable evidence. ETA. I work in a high tech field where we are all science all day. It includes atheists whom while they do not believe, they seem to have a grasp of our constitution. They have been following. So this should be interesting.

 




You are not only generating a second straw man, you have incorrectly attributed someone else's postings to me.  Please correct your post.




 
Link Posted: 9/18/2014 9:18:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted: SNIPPED TO REPAIR PREVIOUS SNIP ERROR.
Quoted:

No, I'm using a dictionary definition of sophistry.  But interesting straw man.


In your opinion it is false. Present you scientific irrefutable evidence. ETA. I work in a high tech field where we are all science all day. It includes atheists whom while they do not believe, they seem to have a grasp of our constitution. They have been following. So this should be interesting.  


You are not only generating a second straw man, you have incorrectly attributed someone else's postings to me.  Please correct your post.
 


Cheers.
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