So, are we doing enough by the standard that God has given us?

What is that standard?

And when I think that we all as Christians should at least be talking about these things, I am talking about our Christian ministries and the responsibilities that are required for Christian ministry as Christian managers, which God as given to all of us in order to fulfil a great and necessary purpose for Jesus.

So, what if there is someone who claims that they are a Christian, yet says to themselves or someone else, that one would believe that God in any form does not need, or better yet does not require our help because He is God? Is this Scriptural and the right and proper thing for us to say?

What makes one say something like that?

Simply because He is God He and does not require our services according to some of the very special gifts and talents which He has graciously bestowed on all people you know, like us!  And also for the great and wonderful purpose for the advancement and benefit of fulfilling God's law' which God had designed and authored to help and protect all people. To Christian first, but definitely to the non-believer also because God cares and loves the total creation.

And if this is not true, then why did God create a man?

Any man or woman.

So mankind could live in a lawless state before Him without repentance?

So, how far do you think that we have to get away from doing what is right by God's standards, or God's laws which pertain to all people, before we might find ourselves in not such a good standing with Jesus anymore and know we are being led to do things out of less blessed circumstances as we were before, that being, being on fire for Jesus Christ as the old saying goes?

How long?

Not long.

Maybe long enough for God  set back and allow us to do what ever it is that we might do with our lives? And what about us in the mean time; especially about us thinking that we are void of any consequences that the Bible says that will affect us if we do not do the things is not consistent with what God's word has to say about these things! What has God in all of His artful and masterful wisdom, set out for us to do concerning ministry involvement. Why should we make every earnest attempt to take ahold of the reigns of Christian ministry in everything that we do? Should we after accepting what Christ has counselled us about helping others and showing them the love of God through relieving some of their burdensome issues if we can and by making the gospel of Jesus Christ available to them in several forms. And then what about never going back to the worldly plow mill of selfishness and deception? And this concerning not being fair and only fooling our own selves about what we do for ourselves and basically only for ourselves is the right thing or lifestyle to be engaged in at any time!

You know, concerning probably some of the things that we are all doing right now?

You know, like everything that is outside of the things which glorify God and which promotes us in the kingdom of God for being obedient to God's commands for our lives concerning the needs of others in this lost and dying world of humanity especially these days!

Where is our national pride right now concerning us as Christians especially when the world is going global now? And in light of these things, should we just set back and let the inevitable happen to our own country without Christ through us?

Are we like God who knows the comings and goings of all people and what it is that we will do next?

Hardly.

Well I say absolutely not, because at one point these ordinary human things and typically ordinary no matter how much that they shine in our lives at the present, if they survive us; will in fact as the Bible clearly states that: "all of the things of this world will be burned up and even the natural elements will be dissolved with a great and consuming heat!"

I personally admit here in the midst of these things too, is that I am not doing near enough about being a good and competent manager of the gospel of Jesus Christ either! So what should we at least be doing right now as first steps taken in order that we build a solid foundation according to when we are tested that we can as competent Christian managers hold on to, and therefore weather any storm which might present itself at any time in or lives?

You know, especially when we didn't see that very large and ominous wave approaching in our lives, that one coming and broadsiding our little fishing boats, as to put much unwanted water into our laps and fearful?

Are we giving enough of our time and resources in order to fulfill the commission that God has given to each and every Christian manager to form up on for the purpose of helping others so that they can hear the Christian gospel according to God's great gift unto mankind who if Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God?

There are no exceptions here, as the Bible commands all of us to be involved in some way here about the Christian ministry in several capacities!

Have you ever thought of yourself in a prescribed way about your association with and in the kingdom of God with Jesus Christ at your head? Wouldn't you agree that Jesus Christ who is definitely our Lord and Savior, is He, and all in which He stands for and has done, truly fit the role as the competent manager and leader for us to study under, especially through His Spirit of Truth; which at the present resides within all genuine Christians which allows us the potential to do all things which are right and just for us to do for God. And that being and not secondarily, the things in this world that minister to others and at the end of the day definitely glorify the Father?

So, in these things, I believe that Jesus Christ does fit our expectations and aspirations, "In Him" as good and honorable Christian ministry managers as He had said to His disciples as we are today that to, "Go out into the world and preach the gospel to every creature (gospel of Luke the Physician).

So what are some of the things that you think that we should do to start on square one, figuratively speaking to ready us for the sound and required ministry that God has again, commissioned for us to do?

First off my dear brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ, do you love yourselves enough to love others in the specified manner that God in the form of Jesus Christ truly loves You?

I will say this again: Do you love yourself enough to love others in the way that God loves you and came to mankind not as a harsh taskmaster but in the form of a meek and humble person; a caring and loving servant to many?

Do you fell like at the present and in your present situation as a Christian right now that God does indeed love you in the unconditional way that the Bible says that he is supposed to?

If God only had two shirts, do you think that He would not only give you one of them, but the better one just to show you that His love for you was real and binding if that is all that God could ever do for You?

Have you ever given some one the better shirt off of your own back? It is in things like these, simple and unselfish things where we must start as fledgling Christian ministers in order not only to make some deep impressions on unbelievers from time to time, but also to show ourselves that being a great man or woman of God is really the only way to go in life!

That being, the one that Jesus Christ has given us in order minister to others and as we do things, we also do them and with great purpose in our lives, back to ourselves many times over which will sustain every area of our lives, that being, those areas which God would have His people do for others, which in turn glorifies Jesus Christ, as the standard of our faith, that being, to do some things that, at first as competent managers in Christian ministry that may not make us very comfortable about doing.

You know, like washing someone's feet when they are  unable to keep clean, or giving someone the literal shirt off your back, say, in some emergency or other situation according to someone's need.

How about just sitting quietly there with someone when they do not want to be alone?

Or dying for another as Christ died a cruel, illegal, and criminal's death on a bloody and rugged cross of shame for us, yet tempted as we all have been and failed often, yet this One had no sin and never opened His mouth as to be against our coming.

So, are we doing enough?

Are we?

Should I say any more about this subject?


SAE

That is a lot of content.  I will give my response in a couple of bullets:
-God is good.
-He loves us and forgives us, unconditionally.
-He calls us to show the same unconditional love and forgiveness to our fellow man.
-There was cost associated with his unconditional forgiveness; his only Son.

Many of His examples are very hard to follow, but I try to share the message above with as many as possible and to act the way He calls us too...some days are better than others.

Perhaps the idea that God is omnipotent? Such a being would not need nor require help.

Must have a really hot barrel right now!

Cook off.

If a peaceful community is desired, loving thy neighbor is a logical nicety. If God exists, and actually wants to be loved, I'd say that would also be logical to do.

And loving ourselves seems like a logical necessity, if one accepts the premise that you can't truly love anyone else if you don't love yourself.

I dunno. I don't see a correlation between loving, and understanding either God's will or God's purpose.

That no other species has done these things can be attributed to their apparently lesser intelligence. I doubt that you or anyone else knows for a fact that none of them has ever "had the thought thereof or wonderment concerning." It may be they have had such thought and wonderment, but have not expressed them in a way that humans can understand.

I don't understand what you mean. By definition, omnipotence has no degree.

That is correct, it does not!

More green jellow for you sir?                          

Could you clarify point 3 for us a little more in depth please?

Sounds a bit rocky to me sir. Highly conjecturable. No relevance to understood human intelligent behavior or spirituality that can be proven or monitored on any level for; in the lesser being.

"Wonderment" as you say concerning what?

A scientific and linguistic quagmire of sorts? No understanding or knowledge of word of God in any sense to the lesser creation.

No human-type identifiable traits, except instinctually applied by stimulus and repetitive training concerning worldly affairs and usually as applied; totally reward oriented.

Political agenda; mostly left wing and liberal at a glance.

Moot fail all over the place bru!

SAE

What is it with you and green jello???

Conjecturable? Please cite even one human who provably knows what animals think, or if animals experience wonderment at the world around them?

You guys have some of the best arguments.

I believe that god is omnipotent. He does not NEED our help. If he wanted he could turn us all into green jello without recruiting followers to do the work for him. In him asking us for help, he is giving us an opportunity to prove our worth as humans by showing our compassion to one another in a brotherly way. It can be viewed as a test of character/will/ willingness to serve the lord and aid your fellow man.

"Are we doing enough?" I think if you are good to your fellow man and treat those who you meet with dignity and respect than you are doing enough. You do not necessarily have to preach or spread the word of god to be viewed favorably in the eyes of god. You also don't have to donate every dime (or anything for that matter) to charity. God gave us all free will and individuality because he knew we would use it to lead different lives. I think if we are trying our best to lead a good life by a strong set of god given morals  than yes, we are doing enough.

ETA: This is my opinion as of now, and it could change in the future. I don't think god wanted us to all live just above poverty and give all our nice things to people who are too lazy to get them for themselves. God knows hard work breeds rewards so there is nothing wrong with keeping some of the good stuff for yourself. A crisis situation warrants a more generous response.

I think if we live every day clinging to Christ, knowing we are lost without him, then we are on the right track. By clinging I mean following, trusting, and listening to what he is saying.

Is it enough?  I guess I have to ask the question: Enough for what?  It's not anything I've done to be forgiven of my sins and become a child of God, it's what Jesus did. So I guess I'll answer if I think I'm doing enough, and the short answer to that is "no". I don't think I could ever do enough, but that is my standard.

I could buy into that idea, were it not for one, not so small detail: God is purportedly also omniscient.

If God truly knows all, he would have no need to test us to determine our character and willingness to serve. He would necessarily know these things even without such a "test."

Yes, god does know all. That does not disprove my previous point. He knows all because he has looked into our futures and has seen what we will CHOOSE to do.

Say for example god knows without a doubt that SAE is a strong christian and a moral human. God knows this because he knows what actions SAE will commit over the course of his life while exercising his free will. God knows before we commit any action what it will be, because he has seen our future. This means if SAE decides to commit murder and live a godless life, god will have already seen that coming and placed SAE in the "godless category."

God knows ahead of time whether you are weak or strong, sinner or repenter, faithful or faithless based on what he has seen you do in the future. This does not remove you from your duty of carrying out your destiny. If you choose to assume god knows you well enough so screw following the rules, god has already seen this coming and knows you will not choose to walk with him.  By definition god has already seen what actions you will choose in life, this is how he knows what type of person you are.

He is putting us through a test per se, but has already seen our results. It is almost as though we are writing the book of our own destinies, but god can read the final chapter before we have finished writing it. In this way, we do have a choice. God reads what we will write.

The test is the proving grounds where we hash out our own destinies using the free will god gave us. God knows what type of person we will be, but only because he has seen the actions we have chosen, therefor the test is necessary. Make sense?

ETA: Sidenote to close a hole in my argument------- Those who die too early to write their story (young kids, aborted babies, etc.) do not suffer judgement from god because he is merciful and they have not yet been given the opportunity to live life according to gods wishes. They have not turned away from Christ in a fully conscious manner, so they have not excluded themselves from heaven.

Have you been to see the Lipizzaner stallions show?







In this day and age without cavalry, does the horse trainer "need" the horse and what it is capable of?  Is that the purpose the trainer spent long hours training it?  



And is a horse left to wander the field so capable and so graceful as the one groomed, and trained, and cared for?



Is the horse show not the ultimate expression of both the potentiality of the horse, and the skill of the trainer?



Does God "need" you for some service you can provide?  Or does he seek to cultivate you to your potential?  In realizing your potential, do you not also magnify the hand of the trainer?



What more do you need to do than respond to him as he calls you, guides you, directs you?  What more is needed than to express the potential he seeks to develop in you as he leads you through the life he presents before you?  



He is not without demands, performance is expected, but listen day by day as each step of guidance is given and respond as he has called you to respond.  In it you will find the slow and steady progression from field worn nag to a creature of increasing refinement.



What does he ask, and how does he guide, and how should you respond?  Read... he has left guidance to train your ear, your steps, and your hands.

Beautiful presentations brothers and Spirit.

Outstanding!

The Bible states that a rope fashioned and constructed out of the use of three cords is one not easily broken.

This is where the breakable meets the unbreakable.

Jesus said, "Without Me you can do nothing."

Jesus said, "If you have seen Me then you have seen the Father also."

This is enough for all of us.

What you are saying is that God knows what we will do, but only after we have actually done it, versus knowing what we will do before we do it. In other words, God only knows everything that happens, rather than knowing everything, whether it happens or not.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but that doesn't seem like true omniscience to me.

Quoted:
Posted By stanc:

Have you been to see the Lipizzaner stallions show?
No, but I've seen it on TV.

In this day and age without cavalry, does the horse trainer "need" the horse and what it is capable of?
Yes, he clearly needs the horse. Without it, there wouldn't be a show, and the trainer would have to seek some other employment.

Is that the purpose the trainer spent long hours training it?  
No, cavalry operations is not the purpose. Entertainment is.

And is a horse left to wander the field so capable and so graceful as the one groomed, and trained, and cared for?
It might not perform such tricks without training, but an untrained horse in the field still has grace and beauty.

Is the horse show not the ultimate expression of both the potentiality of the horse, and the skill of the trainer?
I don't know if I'd call it the "ultimate" expression of potentiality, but it does show what horse and trainer together can accomplish.

Does God "need" you for some service you can provide?  Or does he seek to cultivate you to your potential?
I don't know.

In realizing your potential, do you not also magnify the hand of the trainer?
Not if God is perfect (or, as some here say, Perfection). You can't get more perfect than perfect.

What more do you need to do than respond to him as he calls you, guides you, directs you?  What more is needed than to express the potential he seeks to develop in you as he leads you through the life he presents before you?
I presume those are rhetorical questions?

It seems as though you completely misread my post. God sees the future. He knows what we will do well before we do it.  I said that many times throughout that last post of mine. He lets us choose our own path, but knows what that path will be before we choose it. That is true omniscience.

I'm pretty sure I did not misread your post. You said God "has looked into our futures and has seen what we will CHOOSE to do."

Existing outside of time, God can be in the future simultaneously with being in the present, which enables him to watch what (from our frame of reference) we will do, but he only knows about it when we actually do it.

God is watching what would be to us a future event, but to him there is no present or future. Watching something happen is not the same as knowing it will happen without having seen it occur.

IMO, what you describe is not true omniscience, because it depends upon watching the event take place.

For example, suppose you have a time machine. You travel a month into the future and watch "Person X" doing something. Then you return to the present and tell your friends what "X" will do a month from now. Does that make you prescient? No, you only know about it because you watched it happen.

Its amazing the lengths some people will go to to not "get it".  The brain aggressively stops without daring to probe a question deeply.  No, better not to consider the case of the trainer who takes a young and flighty horse and volunteers their time to make it something beautiful (I know of one), the only thoughts permissible are those which oppose understanding that might be sympathetic to the end objected to.





The idea that God seeks to train and develop us for his own pleasure seems horrifying to those that hate him.  They almost seem to say "how dare he try to shape me for his own pleasure"...  Well, the answer is, he made you, can unmake you, and will offer you the opportunity to grow and flourish into something amazing that both you and he can take pleasure in, and if the creation will not take pleasure in its creator and find that mutual expression of beauty, an exile and everything that comes with it has also been offered.  I know a pasture where the horse who kicks anthing that comes near it while it eats lives with the horse that randomly bites others, and other miscreants who will not live in order with others despite best efforts.  They have inherited each other's company through their dedication to self-imposed isolation and lashing out at others.





And is that mutual understanding, relationship, and expression of beauty God seeks to shape us into so horrible to fear the hand that shapes?  Ask a good horse who knows and trusts the good rider.  Ask me, for I am likewise shaped.





Some fear the hand of man, and of human organizations, and they project this fear onto God himself.  To this I will say I knew a horse who lashed out in anger at many humans because of the mistreatment she had recieved by others.  Her rehabilitation was long, and she still has rare moments where she tries to intimidate and lash out from her fear, but overall she has learned that there are those who seek to build out of love rather than fear, and the things we can accomplish together and the glory recieved for a job well done are actually enjoyable.  She now stands often in peace, and with a degree of contentment.





Would that everyone who has been abused by human hands could find the hand of their creator and those who build in love in his name and find such peace.
 

Quoted:
Posted By stanc:

Its amazing the lengths some people will go to to not "get it".  The brain aggressively stops without daring to probe a question deeply.
It is indeed quite amazing. This post of yours is a prime example. You completely avoid addressing any of the issues I noted in my response to your previous post, and instead you cling tenaciously to your prejudices.

No, better not to consider the case of the trainer who takes a young and flighty horse and volunteers their time to make it something beautiful (I know of one), the only thoughts permissible are those which oppose understanding that might be sympathetic to the end objected to.
I did not object to the end. I merely said that, even without training, horses are beautiful and graceful creatures. Or do you think that God made them ugly and ungainly, and only by intervention of human trainers they acquire grace and beauty?

The idea that God seeks to train and develop us for his own pleasure seems horrifying to those that hate him.
If you're referring to me, that is an erroneous statement. I do not hate God. I think it's unlikely he even exists, so how can I hate what I think is probably an imaginary being?

I know a pasture where the horse who kicks anthing that comes near it while it eats lives with the horse that randomly bites others, and other miscreants who will not live in order with others despite best efforts.  They have inherited each other's company through their dedication to self-imposed isolation and lashing out at others.
Are you saying that horses have free will, and those two chose to be anti-social?

And is that mutual understanding, relationship, and expression of beauty God seeks to shape us into so horrible to fear the hand that shapes?  Ask a good horse who knows and trusts the good rider.
Do you know any such good horses that speak English? Because I sure don't speak Horseish... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR_vxJKLJ54

Some fear the hand of man, and of human organizations, and they project this fear onto God himself.  To this I will say I knew a horse who lashed out in anger at many humans because of the mistreatment she had recieved by others.  Her rehabilitation was long, and she still has rare moments where she tries to intimidate and lash out from her fear, but overall she has learned that there are those who seek to build out of love rather than fear, and the things we can accomplish together and the glory recieved for a job well done are actually enjoyable.  She now stands often in peace, and with a degree of contentment.
And just how does the hostile behavior of a horse which has been abused and mistreated, relate in any way to training horses for entertainment?

Maintenance; support in healing; program: sequence

.

I'm calling it quits on this thread. We both have our minds made up so it's a pointless argument really.

This is Scriptural and obedient actions on your part brother either way whether you knew it or not.

Thank You.

The kingdom of God is not about appeasing one by endlessly splitting hairs to come to no avail concerning God's truth and justice toward all people.

The calling that we have been called by is a much higher and valuable calling to God than that.

We shall go on from here to the higher order of God's things.

Amen?

I looked up and saw a man with a measuring line in his hand.
I asked, "Where are you going?"
He answered me, "To measure Jerusalem
to determine its width and length."

Then the angel who was speaking with me went out, and another angel went out to meet him. He said to him, "Run and tell this young man: Jerusalem will be inhabited without walls because of the number of people and livestock in it."

The Declaration of the LORD: "I will be a wall of fire around it, and I will be the glory in it.

Zechariah 2: 1-5
Third Vision: Surveyor of the LORD

amen brotha

See!

I told you not to drink from that Holy Ghost cistern of knowledge bratha!

Yes, we do. However, there is one crucial difference between myself and religious people like you.

My mind is open to convincing argument. If presented with a sufficiently compelling case, I can change my view.

In contrast, your minds are closed to anything that conflicts with your religious beliefs.

Ok Brother, tell us something that we haven't been already made aware of? That are minds are closed?
Why would that be even if it were true? What is your main driving goal among these threads and within this form?
Anything constructive, or just killing time?

If you were to start your own thread, what would it be about?

Anger at God?
Anger at the existence of no god?
Anger at us?
Anger at the staff where you stay?

How about anger directed at members your own family? Let's keep my family out of it you might say? Ok, that's cool then big guy.

But what about being angry concerning all of us, your posting buddies, so to speak, if you consider yourself that right now; do you only try to derail Christian viewpoints when it is convenient for you to do so?

Punch a button and we're all supposed to come running so that you can attempt to de-edify the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God in whom we solemnly and fully will follow unto death by oath and already have, and in all seasons to believe in Him no matter what the occasion might seem to warrant against us and our beliefs according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

You are wasting your time here sir!

Why don't you go and start your own thread and see if we all come running over to it?

You know, like right quick!

You may just be surprised when we don't with your particular mindset right now but no big deal anyways; because others surely will especially from over GD way.  

Just put something in there on YOUR TITLE like, "Atheist wants to know" or, "All Christians think that their............."

You know.

You catching my drift concerning any of this chief?

This is really the kinds of responses that you want anyways isn't it brother stanc?

Isnt that right sir?

Tell me the truth.

Thanks,

SAE

Well, you don't think we've presented a compelling case, why are we closed minded if we say the same about you?  Do you think you've presented a sufficiently compelling case for any of us to change our views?  Or did you just want to start name calling?

We are not religious people.

I think that nothing I could say would cause you to change your religious beliefs.

When did I do any name calling???

By calling us , "religious people."

Nah, I'm not angry with anybody.

If I was to start a thread, it would be to ask former atheists what caused them to become believers.

So, how is that not true? Are you not religious? Or are you not people?

Be My Guest.

Tag.

Well, for starters, I don't have "religious beliefs", I have a relationship with our Savior, Jesus Christ. I do my best to follow him and what he commanded of us. And you're right, there is nothing that you or anyone else can say that would change that relationship. Is there anything that I can say that would change a relationship between you and someone I don't know?  I would think not.

I honestly think you should start a thread about atheists that are now believers. Or are you scared about what you'll find?

Not in the least. Actually, I would be quite interested to learn the reasons for such changes. I was thinking about starting such a thread last week, but when (in an existing thread) I posed the question to a self-proclaimed, former atheist, he never replied. As a result, I didn't bother creating a new thread on the subject.

You did not appear to notice stanc, that while my comments were about you, they were not a conversation with you.  We have demonstrated several times (and the entire thrust of this post was another demonstration) that one can explain and explain till the cows come home, and you will masterfully evade the acquisition of knowledge as though it were spears thrown at a kung fu master.  In evading knowledge plainly presented I concede your mastery and do not seek to test it further.  Observe how paragraph by paragraph you seek not to learn or understand but merely to strike down.  It is as the man who rebuffs anyone who says any nice comment such as "Nice day" with "Bah! what's so good about it".  It betrays a soul of bitterness in the very least, if not hate.  And bitterness toward what, me? No.  You don't even know me... Your bitterness is toward anyone who favors The Lord... As such, your struggle is with him.  For this reason I have no interest in wrestling with you, rather, see how your struggle with the the lord and his people are useful in the edification of others.



To that end, I extracted one of your responses and expanded a page of thought... If I were interested I could write book after book answering your questions, but I have seen no evidence that you can be persuaded that "It's a nice day outside", I am confident by experience your response will ever be "Bah Humbug."



For your own observation let's review the knowledge you artfully evaded this go around, and the methods you applied:

Topic Introduced: The limitations your own dogma (and to evangelical atheists in general) places on your capacity to glean knowledge from the writings of others.  Others read, understood, and were glad for what I said.  You yourself could have extended the concept from the original post beyond a "paid trainer" to a applying your faculty of reason along lines contrary to your prejudices.  Such self-imposed binding prevents you from being a free thinker (else you would have been able to expand the thought yourself and gain the knowledge others gained on their own).

Response: Accusation of clinging to unidentified prejudices and demands that someone respond to your every question, even when they aren't addressing you.



Topic Introduced: Appreciation for the workmanship in of trainer and the perfection of a horse's training.  

Response: Ignore topic, bring up non-sequitor topic of the innate beauty of horses without training.  True they have innate beauty, but the subject was the beauty magnified by refinement.  Distraction



Topic Introduced: Simply saying that those that hate God are horrified by the idea of God shaping them for his pleasure.  You will notice I did not refer to you, I merely presented a garment of a certain cut.

Response: You declare in your comment that the garment fits you by personalizing it to yourself.  Then seek to deny it fits you.



Topic Introduced: The exile of horses that will not get along.  The parallel with the separation of the "sheep from the goats".  The identification of a fate inherited.

Response: New question introduced... Not an unfair question mind you, but a distraction.  The question implies the idea that horses have no free will, or that they do not make choices.  I take it from this you don't know horses very well.  The detail answer of the question is as complex as it would be if asked of humans, and does not lend itself to this format and is a distraction from the point.



Topic introduced: The synergy and symbiosis of two intelligences engaged in a relationship.  The creation of something more than existed with just the two alone.

Response: Inject non-sequitor question about horses speaking English...  Again it seems plain that you don't know horses very well if you doubt their ability to communicate, at least where the horse and rider/trainer are willing to learn the intimate language that can only be developed by to consciousnesses seeking to come to understanding and relationship with each other.  As we've established, seeking this kind of union and understanding is something you've demonstrated a persistent disinclination to develop, at least with those who walk with God.



Final topic: The introduction by way of horse metaphor how many people that take issue with God and his people find themselves there due to bad example or bad treatment at the hands of those who should have been good examples and treated people well.  A description of how those who have been mistreated in a church or by church goers tend to lash out at anyone that reminds them of their mistreatment.  A description of at least one case of reconciliation in a horse metaphor as a suggestion to the possibility and path of reconciliation to one who has come by animosity toward God and Christians through mistreatment, and the beauty and glory that can result.

Response: You completely failed to gather any knowledge from it even where others gained knowledge and provided their thanks.



Gestalt: Signs that any knowledge was gained by you?  None.  Signs that others gained knowledge?  I did receive several messages with favorable comment.  If your faculty of reason is not impaired, how is it you do not absorb knowledge as others do?  Doubtless you judge anyone with knowledge to be defined as being deceived axiomatically.



As I have said before, you keep yourself from knowledge like a ninja avoiding a flurry blows.  You are a master.  I do not seek to test your mastery further, I concede it.  You are however often a useful example from which knowledge and understanding can be presented to those who are open to understanding.  It is generally for that purpose that I refer to your commentaries.  If however I should observe that you actually do begin to free your thinking and to grasp and extend knowledge laid before you, I should quickly revise my appraisal and rejoice in the freedom you find.  I have no animosity toward you stanc.  I love you, but you come here to lash and destroy, where as I come for dialog and understanding.  I should be thrilled if you ever changed what you sought here from the "joy" of lashing at people rhetorically to the joy of connecting with people.



Now I have finished the review, proceed with your lashing and incomprehension if you wish uninterrupted from my part :) I will sit and marvel like watching a martial artist practicing their katta.





 

I think it's a good topic.



 

Proverbs 1
20 Out in the open wisdom calls aloud,
   she raises her voice in the public square;
21 on top of the wall[d] she cries out,
   at the city gate she makes her speech:
22 “How long will you who are simple love your simple ways?
   How long will mockers delight in mockery
   and fools hate knowledge?
23 Repent at my rebuke!
   Then I will pour out my thoughts to you,
   I will make known to you my teachings.
24 But since you refuse to listen when I call
   and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
   and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
   I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
   when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
   when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 “Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
   they will look for me but will not find me,
29 since they hated knowledge
   and did not choose to fear the Lord.
30 Since they would not accept my advice
   and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
   and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
   and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
   and be at ease, without fear of harm.”

Proverbs 2
My son, if you accept my words
   and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
   and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
   and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
   and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
   and find the knowledge of God.
6 For the Lord gives wisdom;
   from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.
7 He holds success in store for the upright,
   he is a shield to those whose walk is blameless,
8 for he guards the course of the just
   and protects the way of his faithful ones.
9 Then you will understand what is right and just
   and fair—every good path.
10 For wisdom will enter your heart,
   and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul.
11 Discretion will protect you,
   and understanding will guard you.

Quoted:

Observe how paragraph by paragraph you seek not to learn or understand but merely to strike down.  It is as the man who rebuffs anyone who says any nice comment such as "Nice day" with "Bah! what's so good about it".  It betrays a soul of bitterness in the very least, if not hate.  And bitterness toward what, me? No.  You don't even know me... Your bitterness is toward anyone who favors The Lord...
Faulty reasoning and erroneous conclusion. I have no bitterness (let alone hatred) toward anyone, whether they favor the Lord, or not.

For your own observation let's review the knowledge you artfully evaded this go around, and the methods you applied:
Topic Introduced: The limitations your own dogma (and to evangelical atheists in general) places on your capacity to glean knowledge from the writings of others.  Others read, understood, and were glad for what I said.  You yourself could have extended the concept from the original post beyond a "paid trainer" to a applying your faculty of reason along lines contrary to your prejudices.  Such self-imposed binding prevents you from being a free thinker (else you would have been able to expand the thought yourself and gain the knowledge others gained on their own).
Response: Accusation of clinging to unidentified prejudices and demands that someone respond to your every question, even when they aren't addressing you.
I may have prejudices, but you're flat wrong about your other accusation: I have never demanded that anyone respond to any of my questions.

Topic Introduced: Appreciation for the workmanship in of trainer and the perfection of a horse's training.  
Response: Ignore topic, bring up non-sequitor topic of the innate beauty of horses without training.  True they have innate beauty, but the subject was the beauty magnified by refinement.  Distraction
I figured it was relevant. You indicated that horses in the field lacked grace and beauty because they were not trained and groomed. I view that position as false.

Topic Introduced: Simply saying that those that hate God are horrified by the idea of God shaping them for his pleasure.  You will notice I did not refer to you, I merely presented a garment of a certain cut.
Response: You declare in your comment that the garment fits you by personalizing it to yourself.  Then seek to deny it fits you.
Poor reading comprehension. I made no such declaration. I specifically used the caveat, "If you're referring to me..."

Topic Introduced: The exile of horses that will not get along.  The parallel with the separation of the "sheep from the goats".  The identification of a fate inherited.
Response: New question introduced... Not an unfair question mind you, but a distraction.  The question implies the idea that horses have no free will, or that they do not make choices.
Erroneous conclusion. The question was a request for information. I implied nothing. You incorrectly inferred something.

Topic introduced: The synergy and symbiosis of two intelligences engaged in a relationship.  The creation of something more than existed with just the two alone.
Response: Inject non-sequitor question about horses speaking English...
It was not a non-sequitor. Apparently I must remind you that you said, "Ask a good horse who knows and trusts the good rider."

Final topic: The introduction by way of horse metaphor how many people that take issue with God and his people find themselves there due to bad example or bad treatment at the hands of those who should have been good examples and treated people well.  A description of how those who have been mistreated in a church or by church goers tend to lash out at anyone that reminds them of their mistreatment.  A description of at least one case of reconciliation in a horse metaphor as a suggestion to the possibility and path of reconciliation to one who has come by animosity toward God and Christians through mistreatment, and the beauty and glory that can result.
Response: You completely failed to gather any knowledge from it...
You did not make it known that you meant the abused horse story to be a metaphor for people who've been mistreated in church or by church goers. If that was the intended message, it would've been better if you'd just said what you meant.

And FYI, I have never been mistreated in church or by church goers, and bear no animosity toward them, or toward God.

Gestalt: Signs that any knowledge was gained by you?  None.  Signs that others gained knowledge?  I did receive several messages with favorable comment.  If your faculty of reason is not impaired, how is it you do not absorb knowledge as others do?
Of course there was no knowledge gained by me. You imparted no knowledge that I didn't already possess. And my reasoning ability is not impaired, but I cannot say the same for your reading ability. You received precisely one post (not several) in response which lauded your comments, and it said nothing about gaining any knowledge: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_135/1647002_So__Are_We_Doing_Enough_.html&page=1#i48388726

Now I have finished the review, proceed with your lashing and incomprehension if you wish uninterrupted from my part :) I will sit and marvel like watching a martial artist practicing their katta.
Sarcasm ignored.

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So as the contemporary Christian song goes that I heard a little while ago, "How great, how great is our God" probably the same name title but not real sure thiough.

So as for me, this isn't by any stretch about many things in this world that I am not sure of. I'll bet the same goes for you too in some respects too. Personally though, I'm really not to concerned about knowing a great number of  things, because the seeming responsibility surrounding this, is that I must have the ability to retain the data with a certain level or degree of recall. If not then, what does it really matter if I make the effort to understand something, and then not to be able to remember latter on with any sort of competent accuracy the information except very cursorily at best.

Especially as we all grow older too?

Ya know?

Now, what did I just say?

Wow bummer.

But, according to my past, and I mean all the way back to the knee-high to a grasshopper stage, I have always had a knowledge of the God of the Bible as at that very young age studying an old picture Bible, German Lutheran persuasion I believe it was, that any other time was stuck in between many other books on the household bookshelf in our home back many years ago.

Are you old enough to remember those supposedly decorative hallway book shelves that were in many homes back in that certain era? My Dad was a top carrier NCO in the military and we had, "racks" and stuff, like the bed was a, "rack" and the bookshelf was called a book, "rack" the bathroom was called something else, and the refrigerator was a, "conn-ex" than rather than, you know, calling household items and such by their proper civilian names pertaining to, "regular furnishings" and things of this nature.

But that picture Bible and I were best friends from early on. According to some of my early memories I recollect my family sometimes in the evening after supper being in the front room relaxing from the events of the day. I remember how my dad would normally still be in his kaki trousers (not pants mind you) black low quarter shoes, and wearing a tee-shirt that looked like was surplus from some very distant war, or back when tee-shirts cost about a two cents to manufacture back in those days.

He would read his newspaper halfway listening into the Huntley-Brinkley report on the black and white TV. Mom would be in the kitchen usually doing dinner dishes or some other domestic duty, and big sister would be either playing with her Barbie doll or with some other evening distraction. And it is here during this time in my young fledgling life, that I had something that didn't seem to interest anyone else in my entire family except me.

The picture Bible, and it was very special to me.

I call it, " the picture Bible" and not my picture Bible because my father or my mother did not say that I could have it for my own. So in my mind there was a question as to whose Bible this really was, although I was the only one as to my memory who ever much looked it over, and for any reason.

But, even as that was for me, it certainly was special to me all right!

The pictures in it were colorful and descriptive, ones such as depicting the battle between David and Goliath, Noah's Ark, Jezebel being eaten by dogs (one of my personal favorites) and the Creation Story, Birth of Jesus and the Wise Men, and Jesus dying on the cross and His resurrection from a rocky tomb with angelic harbingers all around.

Looking at and examining these pictures of the Bible story were very moving within me as a child. Looking back now and understanding a little bit more about God and His kingdom, I believe it was God who had put the interest there in that Book for me to cherish always.

Our quality time together, as a  young son spending quality time with his loving Daddy, down on the living room floor together.

You see, God can certainly do things for us to involve us into having a personal relationship with Him. But in order to do this in a most correct fashion, we must be fairly heavy and adequate at least in order for us t know where we stand with God, and this is one that is not as simple as some people might surmise, but also as a nation according to God, or out in the world and still according to what God wants, and understanding what it is that God is bringing forth in our lives, country, and ultimately world scenes and for what reason?

As people, some of us might consider ourselves to be on an intelligent breed of creatures, and in many ways we certainly are!

But, how smart are we really about many things?

And to make a point here, as it goes even in this day and age of supposed, "High Tech" stuff, it is the testimony of these articles which possess and some very complicated and hidden issues and an agenda to follow.

Should we be embracing some of this stuff in some of the ways that we do?

God has certainly given us some choices here, but these choices have already been overwritten by the Holy Spirit of God. So one might say why all of this bad stuff in the world, doesn't God care? Yes, of course He cares. But He understands in a totally righteous and complete way of understanding all things at one time and in the realness of time, and not secondarily in the much higher eternal sense of the continual forthcoming of God's master plan; for the entirety of the whole and  completed continuing creation ! He cares about all of these worldly so-called bad things, however any bad thing under heaven doesn't last forever.

Does it?

Should we truly not be very concerned about physical death which is inevitable on our part, but not in the instilled instinctual sense of maintaining a state of survival in this present condition?

Many different circumstances, with even many more different outcomes should we know about?

What should we compare the kingdom of heaven to without any sort of comparison to any other thing? Is this possible?.How different is the kingdom of God compared to the world in which we live in today?

A little; alot?

What has changed on both fronts, and over quite some time now?

Could there be some overlapping dimensional factors here concerning both realms about being very closely involved with one another and if so, then what is this particular situation's cause?

If the answer is yes to some of these circumstances, then what for?

Are we knowing enough?

Does God always expect us to spiritually and otherwise, to know more as we go along, in order to connect better with Him?

How can these mentally induced premises and spiritually engrafted revelations affect our ongoing limitations as mortal human beings; and the conditions surrounding them? About staying more or less the same; or becoming much more knowledgeable in our lifetimes concerning God's will in our lives?

You know, like something that the lack of knowledge can bring forth, things like being ignorant or in fear about something we might find ourselves to be in more than just a little doubt about?

Are we understanding enough to have the ability to put things into their proper worldly perspective, thus putting things into the proper order for us about the kingdom of God also?  Who's on first?

We always have work to do.


<><SAE*

 

Hosea: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

Hear the word of the LORD, people of Israel, for the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land:

There is no truth, no faithful love, and no knowledge of God in the land! Cursing, lying, murder, stealing, and adultery are rampant; one act of bloodshed follows another, For this reason the land mourns, and everyone who lives in it languishes, along with the wild animals and the birds of the sky; even the fish of the sea disappear.

But let no one dispute; let no one argue, for My case is against you priests (Pseudo Priesthood; A Challenge of Authority: text amended; MT reads argue, and your people are like those contending with a priest: Korah vs Moses; See Numbers chapter 16 : Rebellion in the Desert; concerning control of  Levitical Priesthood).  You stumble by day; the prophet (or the false prophet among you) will also stumble with you by night (or stumble with you at night according to your drunkenness and carousing: Charge: Prostituting With False Gods Before YHWH).

And I will destroy your mother (or I will destroy your temple prostitutes and cut out their insalubrious tongues).

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. because you have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from serving as My priest.

Since you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your sons.

Hosea 4: 1-6

God's Case Against Israel: Rebellion Against the Priesthood Exposed by Truth: The Spiritual Law and of Reoccurrences: God's Wrath Invoked by YHWH Against Israel for Sedition Against the Law.  

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Let us help one another to remember that God is not mocked.

Mods, lock it please.

Thanks